Jul 1, 2014|
Dale opens the hour pointing out how well Jon Lester has pitched in his own division. The conversation turns to the reported offer of 4 years, 70 million, and whether that was insulting, or just responsible negotiating. Which pitchers in MLB have contracts that should, ultimately, be used as a barometer for a Lester deal?
Transcript - will not be 100% accurate
Our -- to dale and -- Sports Radio WEEI Dale Arnold Michael -- joined. Our third man and today is Steve clock late. During the outbreak I took the opportunity to look up the numbers. Just the the rough numbers not I didn't break down all -- the intricate numbers but Jon Lester. Against the American League east this is as of today. In his lifetime against the Baltimore Orioles fifteen and 42. Point 92 ERA. Against the New York Yankees thirteen and six. Three point 78 ERA against the Tampa Bay Rays thirteen and nine. Four point 12 ERA against the Toronto Blue Jays fifteen and 93. Point 82 ERA. Back to -- point about you know likes playing in Boston doesn't mind the crucial bull that is playing in Boston and -- the American League east either. They just great against the American League east has the numbers will back there will back up. Texture while a couple of textures on the eighteenth he tech by -- possible. One -- and says oh horrors. Of starting off being offered seventy million dollars. Oh what a terrible negotiating. Place to start for the Boston Red Sox and he's not using the argument that. -- he teaches in parliament he had not not going there saying seventy million dollars for Jon Lester. If you're starting in the as you're starting a negotiation. That's not a terrible thing it all depends spoke hours and I'll roll them all wrote them if it was presented this way 79 dollars regularly. Now that would be insulting. No it's insulting to begin with my seventy million yes. We win your first offer is its what seventeen and a half million dollars a year for four years that's what they offer. When everybody knows that it's going to be above twenty. Okay but we're not talking about. We're not talking about a little -- here right Jon Lester. Means what he says says what he means we all know that he's account again. We've heard all about the seventy million dollars you know we haven't heard yet. No one. No one but no one. Has told us. What the counter -- Over the counter to just back up a second because the -- of -- is horrified by the seven million rolling his eyes and probably humanity. Don't go there because you didn't go there he's not going where where a lot of these a lot of these arguments go where. I would take the money and it's a privilege to play baseball he's a grown man playing a little kid's game all the cliches just saying. If -- if you. If you say to me dale I'm I'm jobless from representing Jon Lester and you are representing Larry Lucchino John Henry in the rats. And you say to me all right. We think seventy million dollars. Over what is a four years -- seven million but the deal yes but we think -- seventy. Is a good place to start you know I would say it's okay. Mr. Arnold appreciate that. I am my my counter to that. I respect your in your your position and you're the number structure for the organizations are you negotiate. Mike countered will be. Five years. And 125. So when the company went that extra year I don't like four years to reload often -- if you save for I think 567. -- they -- 25. -- -- Absolutely we don't they didn't make it exactly so we keep where where we're demonizing. The Red Sox because I think the opening offer was soups are OK -- I think it would I meant to be insulting weren't going -- and that's it and it ended. -- -- -- at the same were at the same negotiating table. It's gonna take my ball and go home -- let you know -- -- they end. I have I want I don't know that they -- right and I don't know what -- play I've flown in the town for this meeting we had a nice lunch. Offer me a beer I don't I don't drink beer and negotiate when -- that you're going back and four epic that bottled water I give you five and 125 we don't know. What Lester side came back with -- that Bieber pretty interest in the I just I I think that they knew that it was an absurdly low offered to begin with with all due respect to them that Dexter. Yes in the world the three of us live in in the text their lives and what you can make India I take judge hasn't Jon Lester earned. Every penny he's been paid in this entire Major League career. Pretty much -- in terms that a badger to Jockey Club rallies and he's always been helping an inning and I recognize he had cancer and to my -- -- -- right right -- while the he's never Jake did and and you can say he was part of the crowd 2011. I liken that to he got you know he hung out to kids -- smoke cigarettes on the courtyard. At Longfellow school that that's the way I see that. And he. He's won games in the World Series -- seven million dollars he would do his job categories are as they hit a as far as this seven million dollars goes. I mean you could make an argument that that smoky bets. Making a pro rated 500000 dollars a year is over rate for -- don't obviously one years old you know I was make when I was 21 years or so so. Let's let's arrive at the point where everybody's enormously overpaid baseball in an all the other pro sports. Rid ourselves of that -- get that out of the way and then ask ourselves -- basic question what is Jon Lester worth. And why risk insulting him and angry wood dale -- percent of that point. Why insult him so if the techsters says to me OK dale so what if Lester said he wanted seven and 200 or would you be saying I'd be saying that's absurd. I'd be saying it's ridiculous. And everybody would know it's ridiculous. Yes it plays both -- year. That would be just as stupid. As offering I ever that you know are not. Let's let's let's figure this out here because everybody that has been the consistent. Answer. From most people across sport haven't heard anybody in the media at least say. A four year seventy million that's about right that's fine it's a good place to start is not the route that negotiating starting point to the Boston Red Sox you don't wanna give your best number. Well on the first negotiation. They -- forced you to give the first number. In you've given what the ticket number. What would what would be a good number not the final one but not insulting. For ninety. Well I -- I my opinion for it at eighty is minimum. And that's probably insult so there's a million dollars. I don't think I think for at 100. You're starting offer which -- million dollars in at five when Michael if your insisting on the shorter term. You've got to pay more per year -- if you're saying look John I I love you but for us as far as we're gonna go. And you have to know you're gonna have to pay more per year for port 100 than it is okay what's -- it. That's the way I look at it when you bite your post that you would offer 45000. About 101000 commitment and -- -- that was and I saw the seller what it. I watch love Waterloo or flippant I mean I know how they would they would have. To say this governor. Their mother -- fit and all these shows. On HDTV. You don't wanna watch and yeah. Believe people when parents taxes. And Eric George. All you you know look at for a place in the and then in the -- takes into place in the 3500 square feet and the -- -- three car garage. And you have a couple of acres homeland. And basic and 2101000. Dollars a little high I don't want to drive you crazy and I know the lord you people know how good you have it. Can I -- slight tangent on bad business decisions. -- game last night given a -- it's a home run up. The -- and know what moment that was for him for 5150. Home run of his Lester -- big league career. Would we not agree that's a milestone home run a -- gonna put up the trophy case corporate yeah. Some your local -- the bleachers because it's what you do down mentally they -- about it back. Good good good to -- home -- you know and throws it back as far as he hit -- I'm surprised ticket could yet appeal from went from wearing a lot and it's a fair point. And so what catches the ball. Throws it back. I'm thinking if if if certain person had an ounce of business acumen. Said person would have taken that ball to an assurance that. Old rookie I -- David Ortiz 450 Korea on -- It's not gonna go on eBay for it's not the Barry Bonds may have a David that you a medical book that positive report -- yeah provide them -- couple bats and gloves and some stuff. But every day and duffel bag being a Yankee -- yeah are important -- and selling out nets to Purdue and -- -- and India's. It's it's a Yankee fan with scruples -- as that I by the way Gordon needs is reporting. That Jackie Bradley junior will sit tonight smokey will play center -- -- don't call this one by the way. I just went along aren't directed that your mail in the hallway about an hour ago nailed this site he called this -- few weeks ago. Had a -- sooner or later he was going to be center fielder Carl long term idea actually on the air here but I -- -- specialists and their program -- preponderance traveling with the team and a lot traveling with the team Michael. 61777911. Happened 7937. Dogs in Florida hey Doug NATO. I don't drug. -- I have been -- had this conversation before. John lashed out. -- competitive pitches around that we need match terrorist. Greinke. People forget those guys but it's in pocket at a -- Ron Norton are there. Whereas less restriction upon the bad ones here we operate. So the comparison got real. Well I like and I think. I don't -- -- try to look at just overall numbers by the way he's better on the road and he is at home. His record on the road is better than it is at Fenway Park. But I mean he's capable of pitching an apocalypse I want to cute pictures that you put him in -- couldn't Heidi yeah. I was gonna handle that you don't want. On the can be pretty cool and crazy isn't it -- put him up probably. Eight probably what I I just think look good pitchers are going to be good pitchers wherever they pitch -- how would who. Max Scherzer scherzer and Fenway Park because it. It would be picked Whitney proviso that you never know yeah some baseball thing yeah talks about that I -- -- -- -- bit that he would be okay. And get he's got a different color I think going to analyst lyrics yeah he's a little. These little he's he's an odd ball low -- but he thought he he would he would survive appeared out texas' are real people not. Are you kidding me 400. Million dollars. Point five million dollars per year that's a good starting point you're not how many players are making 25 million dollars per year Lester is worth that much. How many players have a six. Forty -- tell winning percentage and a three in all the World Series. When -- compare him to. Pulled it counted while I think I may -- pitcher in the astros' bullpen while you're probably not compared to that guy you knew you're comparing Jon Lester. Through you don't wanna go as far as Felix Hernandez and Clayton Kershaw. He's not that you don't wanna go just Timberland -- by the -- on his -- that old that it's that guy you you look at the schedules see when -- agency and -- yes I mean -- you wanna compare him to. This you know it's Zack Greinke -- Zack Greinke category. I would take Lester over Adam Wainwright which -- talking about. Greinke. Wainwright possibly scherzer. That type of pitcher he's. His career record is a 109 and 63 that's a career winning percentage regular season -- 634. In a career ERA of three point 70. His ERA plus and remember a hundred isn't the the norm is 190. He -- really good yeah pitcher is he Clayton Kershaw no. Now and Clayton Kershaw looked right sure Kershaw is worth thirty million a year but if anybody -- it's him. He's not even looking for anything close to that I don't think I don't know my gut feeling is I've said this for a long time as you know. Five years 115 million dollars IS six year option vesting option based on performance that would add another twenty to the Max and. -- as a Christian guys at 642%. In and we like the throughout the one must reckon because it's not as relevant as it used to be. But his career ER raised 2.5. Seven. This year it's 2.0 four. And in the three previous seasons he has -- nationally. I don't when Theo Epstein was on a morning show today and I don't feel was here and I think they still do and now under bench Harrington. They were going through free agency. The Red Sox internally before free agency began and they would get their staff baseball operations staff and they would have everybody represented the team. Everybody pretends that this exercise so they can figure out. Where the numbers were going and create. And in the year that. I just threw a no hitter. Little bit. Almost daily easily lets him Tim Lincecum. Yeah that Lincecum signed his deal with -- -- -- gear that. Barry Zito signed his team and with the efforts Cisco. They were able to guess with fan a milliliter two million dollars about where that was gonna go so it was a very. As a very useful exercise for them I think they should do that right now because that would help them negotiating. They think about what they will face when Jon Lester and lectures -- hit the free agent market. Who has money to spend who has an -- who is likely to be aggressive cut -- that number. And then come up with a number. That is comfortable for the organization -- you can figure out somewhere in the middle. Of what you gotta pay Jon Lester second can almost guarantee that it Jon Lester leaves yawkey way. That number is not going to be 70809110115. Mean it's going to be approaching numbers that a lot of our taxes just aren't comfortable with 13514145. You know where -- where it will be -- it'll be Detroit who's gonna lose Max Scherzer. Was gonna get a 150 somewhere else in the is gonna go -- Jon Lester to replace him at a 130 or a 125 or some like that. That's where he'll end up going to pay the price of doing business. Peters and Westfield pay Peter -- on dale and Holley. You're gone -- to say that the at the altar. -- alleged here. Is not really insulting if you do look decree -- numbers wish. And dolce and show vs Jon Lester the numbers are pretty compare -- -- not yet there are pretty close you know they're not. Annabel Sanchez's 67 and 61 lifetime. April Marlon Byrd also now know as a way to Minnesota so now the numbers are comparable because he played for the Marlins know they're not content. If you look at that you can lift and energy are out strikeout to walks and errors they're not there not quite dead -- but they're pretty quotes. -- -- -- -- All I heard. That's I mean Jon Lester played them a lot better off into teams and our Internet is very up. How well how many how many years has Sanchez beneath. He -- consistent starting pitcher. But I don't go that -- -- -- Dell Dell's got the numbers are deadbeat deadbeat too. -- images it's our last year was fourteen and 82 point 57 actually really good to let the young Lackey didn't back legally Jerry. 156. It's neat to ratings going backward from their four and 65 and 79 and thirteen 89. About that Peter you know I think a comparable is you know it's it's the right conversation I have probably just not the right guy. -- Sanchez the right guy and it's clearly not one of those top pitchers that we talked about before we're not talking about. Jon Lester being on the level with with Felix Hernandez and -- -- on topic anybody would argue. Oh absolutely not you're not on the same level but I mean. Fourteen income really just under cloning is probably pretty reasonable like me personally I'm like I'm comfortable at five years. Probably just over twenty million and then the if he like he likened to put LA -- Whatever it says that Peter what if we insist on 121. That he says are now up I'm not taking anything below five 5121 in which a lot of walk. I don't want it and I then what would you do to replace -- so Jon Lester. Is gone. Probably. I gotta make a decision about John Lackey confusion when a pitcher 500000 dollars. So what you you Gloucester talked to -- what would you do to replace in the fetus. Ups and walks -- that it. Loaded the job market are -- probably they'll probably see you can. Q if you look at two year extension OK and then look like an average like it would like an average value like twelve cards are like twelve or -- -- -- get answered what do not replace less. Much and so I mean it's it's really hard to find aid pitcher. Blisters calibre obviously by you can't you can't just throw like this money after Monica and you end up becoming yankees and -- and -- Older players like look it would not much you can -- about it is that is awful -- well. Peter yeah I think you what I think you're kind of missing out on here from the Red Sox perspective. Is how many players they're gonna have on the roster next year making squat for money at the Major League level. I mean look at rock coal Zander Bogart's and probably in this case smoky bets may be Jackie Bradley junior the young pitchers that you're gonna have as I said before looking at the numbers for next year they've got about. 76 million dollars committed to contracts for next year they're gonna have a lot of guys on this roster making nothing. Army -- you have to think about yet to play the whole thing out so Peter -- goings and I don't wanna pay Jon Lester anything above whatever number was one tan. Or 100 million dollars. So when did you go to replaced Jon Lester and you're looking at free agency and you find the equivalent of bluster. You wind up paying that money anyway and now. You run into you forget about the Yankees the Yankees the Yankees are -- a category all by themselves and getting CC sabathia. They didn't know what they -- gonna get with him I mean he was with two other organizations. Before he got there to know him like the Red Sox know Jon Lester. But if you if you if you if you wind up giving you bring in another -- in free agency that you're spending on and now you're. You've got the Yankees you're the Red Sox. From 20092010. Going after guys pay -- money -- guys that you really don't know that. You know this reminds me of an admittedly it's going back a long time out Roger Clemens leaves. Goes to Toronto is a free agent. And Dan -- had to replace him and help me out they signed Steve Avery Robinson -- go and there was somebody else. And in team -- the amount of money they paid for all these different guys. Added up to what Clemens was getting. Except they Clemens was winning back the bad guy right but Toronto went and Avery and checked on whoever else they were Boston Boston. I wanna go back to the -- Sanchez thing for just moment has never thrown 200 innings in his career. Never once has never gotten with 200 innings you get ugly and a guy by the way Jon Lester has thrown 200 innings. Five times already just missed that a sixth time. High end and by the way Jon Lester pitching in the American League in the American League east Anibal Sanchez up until the last three seasons. This year included has been pitching in the nationally. I don't think they're comparable at all. If all you want a look at his ER rate 3.4 rate for Sanchez three point 70 -- for lesser and you wanna use that -- your comparable. Go right ahead one guy's pitching in the nationally. And one guy's pitching not only in the American League at the American League east one -- hit 200 innings five times in his career one guy has never -- there. Like Sanchez is a picture a -- to I think is very good pitcher I don't think that's comparable. That's that's rhetorically HT TV really gonna comparable here and we got the comparable you used for the neighborhood. There's other ways you could use I just don't think that's a good 1617779793. Sevenths telephone number text this if you'd like a 37937. It's dale and Holley Steve Buckley's in the house as well Sports Radio WE. Jon Lester the numbers are pretty compare all the other not. There are pretty quote you know they're not.