WEEI>On Demand>>Dispelling the myth that Tom Brady isn't a 'Top 5' NFL Quarterback any longer

Dispelling the myth that Tom Brady isn't a 'Top 5' NFL Quarterback any longer

Jun 3, 2014|

Dale, Michael and Greg Dickerson talk about the Pro Football Focus piece on Brady, dispel some of the assertions, and get your response and reaction.

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I'm -- for over whatever it is 1995. Month. To pay for the firewall that you get through. For ESPN insider. And that you read the crap like that that you read today from -- to have a -- wants in -- -- -- -- same sex and violence and -- there -- significant Lester -- I I got up I didn't say I have rather than different on our on our site. It was it was interesting reading I heard in this morning on with DNC and -- eyes got a lovely little Irish broke. I don't understand why we care what this kite says this -- -- and it isn't sombre -- everybody gets all know why I I understand why we care about Brady what I don't understand is a guy whose name you didn't know yesterday. -- -- he's not a comma is gonna come out the only bogey is -- -- every search it is big it is a very interesting analysis. Mr. Munson has come -- And everybody has there. Everybody has there they're there to. Things they look for. There captain characteristic. Know what makes a quarterback great what are you focus on. Don't people focus strictly on Super Bowls -- for Mark Brunell talk this morning. -- -- gotta give you my top five and these are guys who have who have won Super Bowls and done something else well. That's one way of looking at it can just look at. Pure regular season statistics you can look at guys who are great in the post season. Guys who have intangibles. Guys who have a lot of comeback victories aren't in the mountains case. He chose to focus on his his smoking gun and was Tom Brady under pressure the completion percentage under pressure. Has gone down. In the last few years there. Isn't the top five based on that. Everybody has there. -- -- -- -- It was it was one of those let's keep people talking about something articles and it worked out good for him it it accomplished its its goal and and I have no issues with -- that part of it. There's so many unanswered questions Sammy Knight and and John and -- and Kirk tried to draw the author route on the east things. Apparently the fact that it didn't really have receivers to throw to didn't enter into his thought process that doesn't really matter I guess that means. That if Tom Brady has Greg Dickerson Michael Holley and Dale Arnold is his receiving corps if these great quarterback he still must have a high completion percentage somehow. My favorite line in the whole thing was when he said that his numbers seem to spike when he had. Rob Gronkowski in the -- you don't say getting up off our -- and his numbers spiked when arguably the best tight -- ever played the game. Never can stay healthy separate issue but what he's playing. Tom Brady's numbers get better. All right so so maybe he could trip him up there I think the larger story here is that. Have a lot of good quarterbacks now in the NFL you a lot great quarterbacks in the -- end. I don't know how this happened it would seem to happen overnight for a while it was paid this team has a quarterback. Therefore they have a chance to win the Super Bowl that team they've gotten up and forget it it's the haves and have nots. Don't know list the other day. -- just the top quarterback. -- is try to come over the a top ten list of quarterbacks. Now I'm not gonna give it all away -- -- -- -- -- immoral conduct later Michelle oh. Will go our top four quarterbacks but. I got through eleven. And twelve. And they are still names I still had Tony Romo was not in the top and you look at those numbers and Tony Romo as a punchline look at his numbers. Historically not too bad not the final five minutes of the current portable before that they're pretty good but Romo wasn't -- in the top ten Cam Newton wasn't in the top ten. Joseph Flacco wasn't in the top ten. I mean they're but authorities are good and I'm back at college athletic was not on top -- -- -- the same thing in the in the name -- really difficult to fine. It's hard to find a franchise quarterback. But look at the franchise has not clearly. There's say there's a difference there's a buried -- -- the elite of the elite. -- after that that next step down. Is not that bad for example I'll bet you guys don't have Andrew Luck. In your in your top four or top five quarterbacks but Andrew -- damn good quarterback with tremendous upside. So. It's not that hard. It's not that hard to find a quarterback anymore we thought it was it was impossible. Finding a franchise quarterback. And a lot of teams have that question is how long can only talk about Tom Brady were articles like this. Won't necessarily be outrageous. I don't think it's an outrageous. Point of view not -- other top five is top ten or top five isn't outrageous. Or Jimmy top five is outrageous top ten. Isn't I don't -- you know I don't say. I don't think saying Tom Brady's not the top fives and outrageous point of view if you can back it up with something other than what he did it. And I think the other part of this is is. He was a little nebulous about defining his terms here if you're talking about in a career. One of the top two or three all time in my opinion. If you're talking about last year. In other words last year's numbers this is this is what they accomplished. Is Tom Brady one of the five best quarterbacks who played last year in the national football now he was a little nebulous about some of -- stuff that I but I think you know Xena. Well we can all come to secure the three of us at least -- know. Everybody out there on the listening and viewing audience they can't do it but can we not say he's on the downside of his career he's on the decline. Whether -- in the top five or not. Yes -- don't know how I would say I mean the bad guys are gonna patriot fans out there. They get sold sensitive insults like I never seen before. I don't ever remember an athlete in this town who's been on the down slide of his career. Where fans help you don't realize you don't recognize it and welcome back electoral namely Paul Pierce. All about it but not -- -- -- -- Paul Pierce was on that downward slide but nobody acknowledged that an oil well. But -- -- and on the same level I mean pulpit -- respect Paul Pierce police what we're talking about nobody's called Paul Pierce and you know maybe possibly the greatest all time at his position not that conversation. Roger does is they can't Larry Larry -- what Larry Bird I think people back at the time in the very late eighties and early ninety's willing to say. -- problem he's getting older right I see the problem we welcome your feet yeah I see issues with them. But nobody's willing to admit that about Tom bright relief the majority of patriot fans. Thank you very. Sick and well -- -- -- every bird. In all the progress and Larry Bird I think in the case of bird. It was what is obvious. When a guy has back injuries. When a guy has you know various foot ailments. -- double ankle surgery. He went 8889 somewhere around there. You've got all these things these physical issues that you can look at and say okay. Well it's going to be tough to recover from that when you can see you can see him. On the bench. On the floor because sitting down it's 21 comfortable and you've got Eddie let's -- over there working its magic. At at every possible moment doctor Dan -- you know that name because of Larry Byrd's doctor. Obvious Tom Brady. Have you seen any yet but what I'm ethically not just physically you haven't seen a couple years ago is MVP of the league money -- -- a minute the guys yes you have east on the politics now -- house he has new quarterback guru. There was an article that came out yesterday -- and Tom house who. Now gets charged and paid by -- to break everything down and study Tom Brady. Says that he has problems had problems last year throwing the football to his left. And that you know it's it's it's the slightest little thing bands probably wouldn't even notice it but when -- hate to break the stuff down like Tom houses now. He sees a specific flaw in Brady's delivery that cause -- problems throwing to the LAPD has to do with opening up the hips at the right time and footwork and all that stuff. Yeah I mean -- -- the problem with Sam Munson is he just wants to look at everything in a vacuum he wants to. At this the position in all the sports. In any sport you can name the one position that is most reliant on teamwork and most reliant on the efforts of people around him he wants to ignore that. Offensive line has to perform properly running game has to perform properly wide receivers have to perform properly or the quarterbacks -- look awful and -- wants to just ignore all the. Most things. About my my point is. You can't yeah I know Tom house -- But before last year so last year 25 touchdowns Olympics. Yeah before that he saw 34 touchdowns interceptions and Tom Brady and 4827. Yard. The year before that 5235. Yards 39 touchdowns twelve picks in a year before that 3900 yards 36 touchdowns four receptions. You can't tell me that you've seen. 888 falloff. From Tom Brady where it's obvious in his production -- In the Larry -- example that's why I like it that you brought up great. Sometimes an athlete it's so clear that basically. You can't do not talk -- and -- then -- the same ball but the same velocity or accuracy or strategy and ask a lot of guys like that -- dirty -- normally -- Laughter yeah -- same -- Precipitous fall off the clip for Brady but it's a slight I mean he's on that. Slight 37 all of us that's my point it's going to happen at -- you don't get better at 3730. I think in this case. And and somebody can make it they could probably make you better write that article. And make the case better I think in this case. It is. Jumping and this is this is this is bring premature this analysis it makes this announcement analysis. From somebody else might be spot on. This time next year. But I think what he's trying to do is be the first war. The first wanna say it you know jump the gun and maybe didn't get lucky here or at least get some conversation go. You make a fool of yourself if you ignore the people that he's throwing the ball. You make a fool of yourself if if the wide receivers are a young. Be inexperienced and -- maybe not as good as everybody was sand. Then it's going to be hard for Tom Brady to beat. The most accurate quarterback in the National Football League when you look at the at the play of Dobson and end of the way these guys played eight were hurt a lot. -- when they weren't there they were obviously not exactly on the same page. -- all by the way Rob Gronkowski that great tight -- hurt after the season oh by the way Aaron Hernandez the other great tight end. Unavailable for the entire season Wes Welker he of the hundred catches each of the last several seasons gone she wanted to shocked at the number. It's well -- -- what's Greg talks about the earned completion percentage. What do you think of completion percent it was last year. Lower than a year before accountable if yeah but I think it still. It's probably overstated in he did he eight -- was the Brady and get sixty point 5%. Wasn't it was 21 in the national football Diallo completed 6021. Completed 60% of its -- sixty point 5% of his -- In his career number 63 point four. So it's it's lower than his career number blood. It wasn't. You know 5657%. This day has come there's no question is that this day is coming that. You know somebody looks at them and says that's not a top five quarterback here maybe somebody. On his team in his front office feels that way it -- quarterback background. So maybe they feel. That he is a -- obviously viable. A viable starting quarterback. One of the best quarterbacks in the league. Top -- quarterback in the league. But he do they feel. In Foxboro they feel that he is capable. Of leading a team like you get a few years ago. Maybe Italy will now make it a -- -- yeah he's always -- -- leading team is capable of carrying a team to the point where Dale Arnold talk -- and sit here and say. Weapons. Few years ago Tom Brady was. In his prime. Found the weapons apparently talked about the weapons all the -- even care about it that much Michael of course we did that Ramadan -- unbelievable tragedy brought. It was exactly what we were saying this problem Brady some work when. -- Robert and sent out like a lot like a rocket. That was -- -- in 06 they lost those guys but -- complaining about. David -- when he was here. Is that will oversee right. Not great good. I complain about Troy Brown when he was here. I complain about David -- in front of the hundred catch -- the electric but the arsenal Tom -- -- or not those were not all star guys the point is. Tom Brady was at the at the level in his career where you felt like if you gave him. Above average receivers. It was gonna make up there was ever a time back then they -- even a mobile vapid -- receipt I was one year. That was one year or accept it. Eliminate his -- cannot remember back that we -- -- -- Luck will will do this later on in the program when we when we rank our our quarterbacks. What can we start with the premise that chances are pretty good based on last year's play we're all gonna have the same guy at the top of -- list. Probably gonna come up with the same guy based on last year only that's what I thought we were don't want. And and the question is if you flip those two quarterbacks. How would they perform for their respective teams a year ago if Tom Brady was in Denver Peyton Manning was here. What -- their seasons have been like we'll talk about welcome back we'll get your calls as well dale and -- Greg Dickerson here Sports Radio WEEI. I gave a few guys to I think care pension better than Brady -- much -- Berger resign I think Philip Rivers last year certainly was. Well he said I'm sorry said the Brady has slipped below passes like rivers and rapist Percy wrote that that Roethlisberger is better. I think there's a collection of guys I think everyone can agree that Brady is no longer in that mount Rushmore group vote. I Manning Drew Brees. And our -- everybody can agree. Seven months and on with John and Gerry and Kirk this morning and attempting as best he could -- justify the the piece that he wrote what is an interest in peace pro football focus is where it is. And and talking about the drop often Tom Brady's play I asked a simple question before the break LSU guys and we'll get to the calls if you flip the two quarterbacks last year. If Tom Brady was the quarterback of the Denver Broncos. And Peyton Manning was the quarterback of the New England Patriots last year. Would Brady have performed at similar. Levels to what Manning did last year and would Manning have performed at significantly. Higher levels than Brady did with the -- and AMP -- And Manning had a nice year -- been that same thing. I set -- up a record though. Resident Tom Brady didn't have -- few years I don't know but this is. This wasn't crazy fees are they they they also at record they broke all of a -- for all of -- at the mantra this way. Laden if his -- -- a wide receivers -- the same ones the Tom Brady had. What you cattle those records and those are good with those guys have got an open caught the ball. I'll say this sure that you you kid you could say that Tom Brady and number much better season and 25 touchdowns eleven picks. Peyton Manning and New England. Maybe a similar season to Brady's but I will I will say this. About. Peyton Manning and his office Peyton Manning is that as a quarterback he's he's the -- of -- coordinator. And he has been able I think. His system there -- offense is much more user friendly. -- Tom Brady's office. Is that a tribute to Brady do you wanna go -- complexity like my office is so tough that not any joking come in in music. You really have to study to learn this -- that the patriots we're looking at things or the -- slash broncos' way of looking at looking at things. -- If you if you're a if you know how to walk -- put your hands up at the same time. You can probably planned this offense it is something that you can adapt to very easily you know we are a lot of guys. Is now playing for Peyton Manning who say I just can't get it you've got a story that's a New England kind of story. Right and -- efforts I think that the point I was trying to get to hear was that and I understand that the offenses are different but I think Brady. Could be its own offensive coordinator like Manning is in Denver he was running that that offense as well. I just think Peyton Manning had a lot more stuff to work with than Tom Brady did. By a lot. Not by a little. While locked. And I think that was this I -- -- -- 81 guy had a great year one guy had an OK year. But I don't think it's all on the guy who's pulling the trigger I think it's on partly the offensive line partly the receivers were partly the running game. If you think that then you hear one guy had a great year one guy at historic year. -- Tom Brady if if if it was. The difference is that significant Tom Brady had a great year considering what I had already had a baby a year ago in the number shell considering what he's literally got what a year right. Peyton Manning's year was. Ridiculous historic it was just crazy. But I think yeah I think yeah I think you raise a fair point. Switch them around. You can have similar results both ways but I -- but -- here's the but probably -- Alliedsignal Mike I think Peyton Manning would do better here though. Michael here's the problem with -- months since peace. If I asked him the same question he'd say it would no matter. Because he wants to take out offensive line and receivers. He just wants to talk about the quarterback and that's dumb to me asked to you I have you thought why do you think man I would had a strategy here where I'm he's got guys like Tompkins and Dobson drop in football's all over the place because. I think if you have if you have Brady going there running Denver's system. You have -- coming here. Running the New England system I think. -- -- went -- for whatever reason. It's easier for guys to understand what he wants the -- deal. -- really. It really fret over receivers for -- Peyton Manning has had receivers draft in the first round great ones like you know Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne then he's had. Guys like Austin Collie. Guys I just just -- got like Brandon Stokley. Who have come in and picked it up immediately. It's not really your conversation. That is one thing I I have to give them the advantage in that category. That is it is much simpler to learn what Peyton Manning what's what's his receivers to do that it is for Tom Brady's receivers to learn what he wants him. That's five Bobby and I go back to last year and how many times -- wide receiver wide open Brady over -- or. Guys get the football they drop that. There I'm saying -- of the offense can be simple to learn and to understand. And many can get those guys the football. It's up there and capture. Guys were kept in the football last year when Brady did get on the football. -- are gonna change. I'm not sure I'm not sure that's the case remain. I saw some drops that's also dropped some guys there was there was about our 56 game stretch for guys drop -- -- Total of the day is there's there's plenty of both -- there are both columns and has caused them -- a lot of missed throws to 00 yeah I mean. Upstream. More orchestra before I saw more. Missed targets more missed throws -- Brady than I ever remember sending for the for the text -- collecting speaks for a lot of people out there. Says you guys sounds so stupid making excuses left and right what if Payton had ratings Brady's weapons for most -- who cares. Brady sucks in big games plain and simple and I hear that a lot of around here. Over the last ten years especially his his record in playoff games is not what it was at the beginning of his career. So what does Peyton Manning -- these big games I mean if you're Peyton Manning guy and I don't know the Dexter as what's Peyton Manning's record in these big games. Worse -- Tom Brady's. Well yeah and this is another thing I said it's a New England story we talk about receivers learning the offense. That happened here more than in other cities certainly more than in Denver. It's on and we'll hear it again this year. Aaron Dobson will come back. I -- Tompkins and talk about the offense or any offense will will will just overt and pre season games. More so than in Denver Emmanuel Sanders will go go through that with the Broncos. But on the flip side. Quarterback records. In the post season. Does -- Brady Manning thing. But there are other guys -- didn't know off the top of their head would Drew Brees number record in the post season. Talk about it but -- Drew -- as Drew Brees is great Aaron Rodgers numbers are in the post season. It is all both of these guys. Unfairly so Brady and Manning. Our. -- -- -- -- Pickpocket -- -- held to such get high esteem to adapt and their their post season record to get credit for things that they shouldn't get credit for. Get blamed for things they shouldn't get blamed for. That goes with the position as net but was still don't have seen them times 25. I have a better man I would bet that if we weren't here if we were in. New Orleans you know we'd find it's similar about -- are wearing green no way. That column -- column -- this. At all this what -- -- the water and a wide and altering for days at bats during the higher growth in the water bottle dropping that -- are -- example what do button in San Diego but. About Philip Rivers. I promise you they criticize rivers like that. Not like this all no way do not on the top level well I. Not because because you just look at Peyton Manning and Brady and their help with such. A higher standard than everybody yells. That every little thing they do and you just said it gets -- kept its nitpick on a mile deep tail off their game because they're. What they are the story and add a lot of it is just made up. Or for -- Bill Belichick was in patent it. Until Peyton got Bill Belichick had the man set all it's worked out. It's fourth and it is fortunate to double gold at a restaurant or not a given a ball back it up I got a revealing that there have been other coaches it. Brady's been in their heads to it I promise you he's in Rex is and all but I know I -- I think it's all. Nonsense. He wasn't and he wasn't. Bill Belichick was not in patent had it what happened. Was there an exercise. And to be in this Bill Belichick doesn't seem to benefit now equipment and AFC championship game one and the patriot got a little worse on defense. Many figured it out if the better teams they were able to dissect the patriots. Let you throw Eric Alexander and opera Peyton Manning. Yeah you throw a Tedy Bruschi toward the end -- Peyton Manning. Some guys who really weren't able to keep up okay it gets easier the job gets easier. That's what it was Peyton Manning could play in the cold. Actually that -- Nicole. Okay that that that is out of it just so much stuff. Look at a lot of just anecdotes it's. -- talked about it's fun to play around with. Out and I'll say this about Sam months and it's -- day to kick it around and argue and that's what will do for -- here at 6177797937. The AT&T -- minus 37937. A you don't want to miss for a four today because we're gonna come up with the top four quarterbacks in the national football only my top what's gonna surprise you. Well let's -- -- electoral delta. It's a good reform will find out what we get there we'll get to you coming up next. Absolutely I think the -- -- this is what. We have pro football focus do it's it's eight analysis. We watched the tape. They're the statistics are almost kind of incidental -- to -- you know watching tape and analyzing what happened. I actually have a harder time with that than anything -- he -- out with all -- respect -- -- -- with all the respect to Sam Munson. His breakdown of the videotape probably doesn't mean as much to me is the breakdown of the videotape of up. Of a friend -- to -- Dan Marino or and and I'm not. Yes I am yes I am markings of football knowledge of Sam months and helped quite know what he knows about football and he's saying we we try to ignore the statistics. We just look at the videotape and break things down on the videotape. And your qualifications that are blocked. And if we wanna know what cricket player -- soccer player I don't know -- I thought out and I I don't make it fun of the Irish part but no I etc. -- -- but that's after. I don't know what his qualifications are. A guy at -- he's a guy who's really into football. As a guy who. They are a lot of people in in this in this industry. Mean this is getting into very dangerous territory it is getting. Really really hot in this room in the walls closing in and start talking about people. And what they've done to talk about sports. Because I I was just looking on basketball rep for I'd say it out later talked about it look at our basketball reference Greg Dickerson I didn't see your name nor mine. -- -- I'll have my -- my great -- for -- -- -- a lot of cases if the guy is really into football on he has taken the time to study the film. And not -- for that if I disagree with them what I disagree with I don't disagree with this statement that Tom Brady could be. Opt out of the top five shore. If you come -- with that analysis. And you have something in the back it up with. And what that. All I'm asking Michael are his qualifications. To break down the film if Ron Jaworski breaks down on the film. I'll probably buy and what he's Smart because he played yes and and because I've I've listened to his work over the years and I know what he's what he's -- one. And yes I I probably put more stock in it than that okay that's I understand it Thomas talked Japanese models all the and all are exactly elect want I just wanna know what. The qualifications. Are he Sam months and told the NC this morning which try to ignore the statistical stuff it's just video break. Great. And your qualification. I can break down an idiot would know what the hell I was still one. But if if he has an idea what he's doing. Maybe he's not gonna come -- come at a from the same perspective. Is about maybe you've surely will come out of from the same perspective. As Ron Jaworski. Has asked Tom Jackson. Guys a guy who played in people in New England disagree with them a lot Cris Carter played people in New England. Disagree with him a lot it won't be the same perspective. But that's refreshing in a sense. Let me let me -- I'm I'm just gonna I'm just gonna read this one paragraph -- from his -- one pro football focus just one error. He lives in Dublin Ireland having caught the football blog from the year he spent in Minnesota as a seven year old. As a fulltime job watching and analyzing football as if it wasn't enough. He also plays the game on an amateur basis with the west Dublin right there good. That with all due respect I would much prefer more about film breakdown in -- months. He caught the bug the one -- lived in Minnesota is a seven year old lives in Dublin out of now. I mean I got twelve -- -- what can -- -- about 25 and I I don't know exactly how good the west -- rivals on the benefit from using the woods who we. And -- robots here. Oh yeah Hillary happens got a great Irish football players of all time there's Arnold's up what people. Because play pocket. And I'm not talking helps your -- -- I'm not talking about it back it's not -- and his video breakdown why should I put any stock in it. Why don't believe what he says he's a Smart guy talking about post ads perhaps and -- -- -- the west and two and six. Days ago they -- six and 21 listened to listen to operate anywhere in the event I got clobbered. Great blockers. Back on that team last year back to the calls to the calls -- -- -- plane -- Europe first on -- I am professionals talk radio we weren't in here -- -- -- it'll be screwed. The I'm Tom Brady and it is the best quarterback making decisions with the pro ball in the NFL and it seems to me. Nobody makes better more consistently good decisions with the quality in this against him but more importantly. He has lost his ability to MIT it slide step. In the pocket compared to when he was younger and more importantly extend plays in the pocket. He used to be -- consistently always -- until you get on third and fourth street. Now he's stuck he can't he's going into the second and third -- But more importantly it is protection that Obama's decision that will make his career and in -- last longer. And Patrick. Our current I think some of -- and your points are very valid. I I do think that getting to the third and fourth receiver is also a product of the guys who are the receivers. I think they are into related and the play the offensive line and whether or not to give him time to get to the third or fourth reads but but his point is a valid -- Not a -- suggesting that Tom Brady you're seeing 37. Is the same Tom Brady's -- one except -- area. In another couple months but but I'll thirty -- -- I'll also say discus at techsters said yeah out while why don't to look at the at the playoff numbers. Okay. I looked at their last ten playoff seasons because Brady mr. playoff year. Manning missed the playoff years but very they're very similar have done this before parents from last ten playoff years Peyton Manning is eleven and nine. Last ten playoff years Tom Brady is fifteen and eight. For their careers Peyton Manning is now eleven and twelfth. For his career Tom Brady's eighteen -- or not that's similar. Properties from a numbers I don't I'm talking about underdog to win in law calls. What I think what he's talking about is the the statistics and you look at the career statistics. Career playoff statistics -- Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. There's not a a great deal of a variation now. They both have had some miserable a playoff game right now Tom Brady had 883. Interception playoff game Peyton Manning has had a three interception playoff game. They have both thrown for a good number of touchdowns and the post season I think interceptions the last year that this was going in to. This is the start of the playoffs haven't done it since the last year's playoffs started. So Peyton Manning's numbers will be much better thanks to new England and no pressure. And not even like he could even -- Chandler Jones has -- I mean nobody came close to what in the entire game you know in the at a very cool 400 yard passing day. Though the numbers got better than than the Super Bowl. Number probably fell off a bit but you'll be surprised. You run those numbers which one of our -- -- a fabulous -- gonna do and we'll have a by the break and top of -- 3 o'clock hour you run those numbers. Not that dramatic. -- the difference -- in Rochester you're next on Sports Radio stale anomaly. Are you. -- don't. Audio out. Port so I'm. Just alluded to a couple aren't -- All of its so contingent on. So many different moving parts you know often the -- your running game you know your own defense the other team you sense that it's. It's hard to pin everything on one guy and I think it's impossible. You can make any kind of argument why would numbers back up any kind of point you want. You could you could say radio -- -- -- -- -- military. -- -- it is that so many moving parts and like. While running again I'm -- example the other day and Al Davis great great running back out slowly a retired. You thought report but you know why that. You played John Elway and they had a great -- your injuries took. A little. All all over in -- but you get my my overall point now. Out -- every ticket you get settled -- -- not so concerned about Elway. So -- In love with if if it wasn't for Tyrell Davis. The story with John Elway it would have been a really talented guy ticket team to a Super Bowl. But. That's about it couldn't get the team. Over the top of the children that is that Ayers after the Super Bowl bid it was because it's a world doesn't -- and can play that game took to Mike's point you to play that game with anybody even a hall of Famer like always but Elway. Because of those last two years and because he walked away as a champion. Nobody below animal ought to Baylor got -- differently and it look at it and and don't even bring up. Maybe got the first paragraph second paragraph or even third paragraph that -- three Super Bowl loss. -- know about that -- But that was you can remember what you -- that I asked early in his career he matured. He got better and better supporting -- better coaches. Two Super Bowl Steve's on the truck phony Steve I don't. I -- law Michael the last couple of their -- -- from the WW agency I usually agree what are your words very popular you are well on track -- -- -- -- -- -- wanna call it went on today. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Receivers on campus and pick up system -- Altman on. On pictures don't which are right. But you also -- It's what Brady wanted to it's not what what you wanted to do you off a quarter and chipped it up for him to do it for them to do. So I don't understand how you can -- on him and it's flowers and haven't receivers or. Not that good one here that clock because he blankets and warm soup bowls and the -- -- -- coached in hockey Jimmy hooligans in animals and global. So I mean you don't have why why does he except 12 years. Yeah same of the same Super Bowl would do you talk about those guys yet but let it go back to your let me answer your questions like how can I how can I say that. At Topper in intake that's what it's worth. And I thought I thought Christian Fauria. That it very eloquently. And he added a few months ago. We're talking about Tom Brady. And the receivers not picking up the offense. Four -- -- hadn't been for you played. With the patriots and played for Brady and and and -- couple Super -- he says and you don't run the offense for the offensive coordinator you run the offense. For Tom Brady and when guys figure that out and they start to have some success coach or whether it's Charlie Weis Billy O'Brien. Josh McDaniels they're telling you one thing. It's the same the same language. But Thomas has stated that -- -- -- topic but Thomas giving you the new -- like art I know you have this. Keep up on the grease board say OK that's what we're gonna do you're watching film is that this will do when I'm telling US the quarterback. This is what I'm looking for you do or if it once you figure that out. You'll you'll learn a run at the way Tom Brady wants -- to run and you sort out some success at that was great point on his part. 6177797937. Is telephone over the AT&T Tex lines 37937. It's dale and Holley and Greg Dickerson Sports Radio WEEI. Whatever to dale and -- Sports Radio WEEI. Dale Arnold Michael -- joined by our buddy Greg Dickerson. What's -- Greg so Michael Dell. I gotta say we we once had and an intern took last week we consider it the 2003. NBA rookie collapse. -- with -- LeBron and Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh all the Miami Heat Carmela Carmelo. Described rodeo Kuester as soon became personal assistance and brought you lunch and so. What we're working down a street didn't get much if at all that. And -- and one of them is is in Cleveland covering the Red Sox today for mass live dot com well this -- class we got here. He is doing are right there. They come up but the numbers. Tom Brady. Vs Peyton Manning and Manning in the playoffs and as I told the numbers really aren't that different so if you're talking about. The steps that Tom Brady. In this post season career has 43 touchdown passes and 22 interceptions. Peyton Manning and his career has 37 touchdown passes and 24 interceptions Manning have a higher rating. Manning has thrown for more yards Manning has any 64. Point 3% completion percentage Tom Brady's completion percentage is 62 point one. Brady is played in 26 playoff games Manning played 23. So. If you listen especially here. I can't like. Both of them. Got to pick one and I and I respect that and that's -- exports arguments were just say all right. Sometimes -- just have to pick a guy you can't like the Yankees and Red Sox he can't like will and Russell he can't like Brady and Manning picked. One. Top pick Brady clearly but. You would think that man and his it has been a bum. And all look like -- doesn't -- house note of in the playoffs it's pretty good. It's similar to Tom Brady. Separate -- win loss thing. Where is eleven and 1211 it -- so goes back to three Super Bowls as compared one. In the end that's what people remember most that's -- won the quarterback is eighteen and 81 quarterbacks eleven and twelve. All the other numbers are similar you're right their their right there. We had to pick one guy in one category one guy in another category. But but the fact of the matter is one quarterbacks team is eleven and twelve in the playoffs in his career and one quarterbacks team is a. Team and -- I cannot you know bottom and start to do in an all of sports. Told him maturing -- is amazing and I don't like the ones that you call I don't like you want right before our very -- yeah and I don't like it at all. Damn it let. Have you back away from those numbers a little bit -- back away from. Hey this guy while and five championships in this guy I want and three championship this guy one -- honest I didn't win any easier for. That put them over the top I think there're. Many circumstances many factors that you have to consider. When you start talking about the the team's record. Where the quarterback to record so. If you say eleven and twelve -- Peyton Manning's record is eleven and twelve do you think it Peyton Manning. That's cost his team. As to the point where they deserve to be eleven or twelve based on something. I really does in some games yeah I can think a playoff game here against the patriots yeah -- one. The ironic -- three interceptions a year. Yeah I -- probably cost his team the game in that game. And my guess is if we go back through the record we're gonna say. You know what Tom Brady probably cost his team that -- but out but I am gonna do -- the other way with Tom Brady eighteen and eight. Have they won those games. Eight candidate is that on Tom Brady there eighteen and eight because Tom Brady has been so terrific in those and those playoff wins. That's how they got the win. He wasn't carrying them for all eighteen wins I think what for a lot of it was a -- team forced a -- for the majority of the winds especially early on. If you wanna say somebody's character -- And it has something to do with you know that have been reading the book man's search for meaning. -- -- -- -- -- Wouldn't it be deep birds tools superficial. Just tell look at three championships vs one that's too much and that that's too little. I need a need and it's a more. Investigation. Back to the calls we go with you guys at 6177797937. You and Texas it like a 37937. Larry's in -- spurring. Larry and I'm dale and -- I you know I -- talk about the you have to have some kind of experience to have an opinion on ice and now let's at least it'll criticize me for the right thing what I said wise. I have to decide whether the film breakdown of Sam -- is credible to me. He said his credibility based on. And then you had a discussion about those who have -- than not players -- I'm I'm just saying that in general. It becomes the player for example Tim Thomas before and after the White House thing people's assessment of his opinion even on goaltending change. And various -- they I think that. Kinda dangerous slope that. Sometimes we put too much emphasis on say should act that in -- Barkley would ever and I just think edit the potential trap that -- -- We give people too much credit because they played who did this and then it can be Rodman -- whoever you want to pick. I don't know anybody who gives shacks opinion a high valued and then. Like like Charles Barkley is constantly called AT&T has had a test is it was important and -- that -- -- it shouldn't be automatic credibility Larry I think you're absolutely right. Larry you bring up a great point because you can go the other way you can say -- his guy this guy played. A lot of stock in what he had to say and there are a lot of people. Who didn't play the game perhaps Smart analysis shirt and their kind of brushed aside I don't wanna brush. Our friend mr. marks in the side because. Getting the football blog at age seven I wanna I wanna get. In two. What his. What his factors are what does he Wear what is he put weight and four quarterback. As it is it leadership ability is at the ability -- to bring up a team back in it for me when I look at quarterbacks. In the world -- talk about this in about 45 minutes. If that guy has the ball on his hand. This team is down by. Four point three or four points. Three minutes ago on a game he's got the ball twenty yard line. And if if he's going to -- my team I'm pacing. And and I'm sick to my stomach. Theory that quarterback that's the guy who scares me. Who would think now it's pain management absolutely furious Peyton Manning despite what he did against New Orleans in the Super Bowl really getting saints fan listeners we're gonna. Manning -- the ball. He'll -- don't make a mistake I'm gonna count on it. Bill Belichick certainly wasn't that and -- Indianapolis hatred fans used what we don't know we used to believe that I'd say maybe it's changed little to change believe it after the game about during the game. You know anybody yes during the death's -- -- games -- back -- back -- -- -- you're about Manning. What people thought Peyton Manning's gonna crap himself on the field. People thought exactly that I was gonna come up with the interception or brought he's gonna do something and Peyton Manning will. All of to a puddle on the field people felt bad back then until I did I certainly did and I don't Matt. Until what that regular season game -- 05. Or Monday night I or I can't say the exact way or -- -- really come back. Maybe -- if you want to again no sort of wanted to get it's probably that probably them. But I thought the turning point yup but there are certain there are some quarterbacks. -- a handful of them. Who put that kind of -- there are a lot of quarterbacks you respect. But you don't just automatically. Think that they're gonna they gonna slice you up. When your team has the ball when they got the ball on the same note two or three minutes left in the game and they got eighty hours ago. I think people are misunderstanding my comment while try to clear it up. What I said wise and I said very clearly. What like your -- and months and says clearly that people have misunderstood that's what I do like I air it. And among some excess food at a I didn't even know the guy's name yesterday. All of a sudden today. I'm I have to defend the honor of whoever whether -- your Peyton Manning banner Drew Brees fan or whoever. Because Sam Munson says this. All except what I didn't know the guy's name yesterday. I probably won't care much tomorrow. And when I looked up who we wise I said there are people whose whose film breakdown skills I respect more not because they played. Ron Jaworski was an okay quarterback at a great quarterback -- -- easy is good. I think he's rate break to hunt I've fell. I mean we raved about him for years I think he does a remarkable job breaking down film I see him break down stuff and I go okay. I understand that I've seen enough of that I've got enough and a backlog of information from Ron Jaworski is an example. Again not for months and months. I don't know what -- about past but but job's been surpassed by. John gruden -- hello. Mark quarterback hit Johnny football -- -- -- that name I found a name Mara. While on baseball note for you guys Brandon Workman has been suspended for six games. And fine for throwing behind Evan Longoria. So not only did the Red Sox get. Two players. Manager and two coaches thrown out of the game. And Tampa -- got up. The Red Sox have now had a pitcher suspended for six games and find. And tip of enterprise appeal that says but that's the next line is on the next page I'll go get it's probably not there would Joseph Maddon feels that this move keeps him in baseball soul that's -- -- -- all and what it was handled very professionally -- baseball -- You know I know bosom of his name the umpire. Gave my nickname -- of Danny Danny has baseline. Did a great job Davis on the cell -- hi David I you don't. Good -- Are important don't -- necklace that -- cinema. I just want and there are big -- of all Brady Manning Brees -- aren't -- pregnant that in the simplest form. And regardless of money because obviously the money all over the place slot. The way to look at it as far as to hear your top quarterback. Who else what you want. It's not break. Well today that the aggregate question didn't break day that's a very good question and answer -- about 43 minutes. Port forward and if you. The top four quarterbacks. Had. What as of June. 2014. We're going to be current we -- refreshed the list. It's going to be an up to date up to the minute list. I taught for changing by the moment I tomorrow. I'll talk for quarterbacks. Ike -- yet. But you can have a quarterback like for example. Who would you. Running back. Wondering back who let our time. I don't want her based on the political battle all the hot right now in the game active running back. Running back right not -- -- -- Or you know and or other but that last year would tell you that. The sound. OK -- it's on the court pick your drill at Aetna and Jamaal Charles I'll take -- true. Critics point as a matter -- him to stay in front your files you know national football late watch the -- outlook go to jobs but those guys -- -- -- for the three guys that name I'll take them all day you can talk about the diminished. Position. Not -- not that doesn't 6177797937. Jordan's in New Bedford -- Jordan. I -- break your heart was set at this one particular -- and I'm done personable he opened weighty. Maybe seeing each. April great quarterback Tony -- -- and it could -- homework but Brady is the best period forcible because. The numbers numbers many plays that don't hire -- a career and any Clinton Denver and it. -- -- -- -- in the atmosphere -- to whatever but Brady has played in more -- but whether it -- a greater numbers than Manning has and secondly. Manning had been asked to do -- then. Wide receivers. And call it with with Reggie Wayne and Harrison all apple. And -- at not that it is no argument. -- -- -- -- -- I don't America -- -- Jordan handled it that way you do what you went and only if you wanna go the whole team if you wanna go just -- receivers on aggregate. But take a look at the team that surrounded. The team not just what receivers but the team that surrounded Tom Brady in his first few years. And good to -- is -- it was just Tom Brady and that was yet. You and saying. Yeah. Are you get to look at yet to look at everything to Jordan -- show. Peyton Manning had a general manager Paul -- -- Richard -- and Bill Polian who who thought they had tape patriot patriarchs -- arm. Who felt like I'm gonna build around have a at all. An elite quarterback I'm gonna build my team around the quarterback first and foremost so. Yes I will draft Dallas Clark in the first round -- -- a first round pick on Reggie Wayne and I'll spend a first round pick on. Edgerrin James and hospital's been a first round pick. On Marvin Harris are not. So yeah he's had a lot. But look at look at Peyton Manning's first coach. Vs Tom Brady's first. Jim more jobs vs Bill Belichick look at the defense. That Brady has had. For the most part not through the roles have reversed. Lately but this early -- and Brady's defense of his team's defense of. -- ran out awhile ago. Now when -- talk about the earlier -- were 45 per year war and assume you make an argument that's how Britain lost one night a Super Bowls like what but Beckett but it goes back a candidate but the Italian ten years ago. Ten years ago -- Stan I would say. Probably. When he came back when he came back from his injury. Different operation. So let me 2000 Ahmadinejad -- -- 2006. Defense notably set a team record for. For fewest points allowed -- it was in 06 or seven. The top five defense an NFL oh wait he's out of the next 2009 comes back and I think they've been given fight defensively ever cents. That's five -- a solid five years Republican for. I shut down defense. You can play that game all day there are certain things that Brady has that Manning hasn't had Manning has had receivers. Gotten that Brady hasn't had they both have. Played for a pretty damn good organizations. And Manning's second coat. Is up for hall of fame consideration. So if it's it's been pretty. The debate you know -- -- there's no debate no debate I -- view that -- -- your household but but nationally if you look at it which -- coming into our house and yeah if you look at it nationally absolutely. Absolutely that there's a lot of stuff to talk about 6177797937. Is telephone over the AT&T text line. 37937. We're talking about -- the quarterback play and how far has Brady fallen also now we find out that Brandon Workman got suspended for six games. By the way the pitcher. Who admitted he threw it. David Ortiz because David Ortiz thinks he's bigger than the game got -- up. Even though he admitted that he did it but that's. Another topic for another day I'm sure our. Right back to the call to -- top of the hour will give our top four quarterbacks in four of four Sports Radio WE yeah. If he struggles under pressure more than he used to. That's not going to be something that goes away you know he. The longer he plays and the more east. He'd left trying to do things he's he's left and stretching their offensive line more than a -- running to. That's Sam Munson who appeared this morning with John and Gerry and Kirk on the Dennis and Callahan Show. He's the guy who -- -- -- for pro football focus that's part of the ESPN spam like. Not talking about how Tom Brady is no longer one of the top five quarterbacks in the National Football League. At top of the hour for a four we'll give you our list. Of what we think are the top four because it is -- for the top four quarterback quarterbacks in the National Football League just one quick. Aside -- before we get back to the calls I promise it won't won't take long. My guess is when the Red Sox start to gather around the batting cage this afternoon when the members of the media gather with them. They're going to be more than a little -- year. The Brandon Workman suspension in the overall scheme of things is not that big -- deal he's scheduled to pitch tomorrow night he will he'll appeal and pitch tomorrow night. They'll then drop his appeal on Thursday and serve it. Because there's an off day Thursday. Bacon and just adjust the rotation back to normal rest and pitch everybody where they're supposed duke this isn't that big a deal from the Red Sox perspective although. Gonna cost him a lot of money. But the fact that. David Price admitted he threw -- David Ortiz. He said without saying the words you know one. That the key he said that he threw it David Ortiz. The umpires acknowledged. That he -- with David Ortiz that's why they warn both dug outs. Because they knew that he -- with David Ortiz intentionally. Not only did -- -- thrown out of the game even -- yet another batter later on not only does manager racquet -- out of the game you know gets nothing. Now Brandon Workman. With Evan Longoria missed them what what you've gotten all you've got repeat hit Evan Longoria. At six games for missing you still don't believe that there's something. Come along the highway with David Price. That there's another. Shooter drop with him after this I guess I'm way behind where my guess is baseball -- announced that at the same time they announce this one right. Yeah. No need to be noted when you you never know Major League Baseball as Danny and did a great job and ladies a lot of baseball acumen of baseball I it's you judge of college did the same thing diplomacy which so. That was -- great. Well I bet joked that it was handled great cannot have his pitchers got thrown out and out of his coaches got there aren't great job. Great job Red -- -- -- such laws read FactSet three guys yet. -- I had nobody and I -- he thought was exactly handled properly. And you'll continue to say that when they talked to him today because Brandon Workman has been suspended for six games and David Price gets up. -- -- -- lap and got -- all. About. Our joke stick did an interview with. -- with bad. Notices before all the obviously forum fireworks in this is when they were in Tampa. And he's talking about you know thanks to you know mister Boudreau of -- room and Mr. -- -- grow government years ago. I think. Oh Democrat and mr. Williams is actually mr. drew came up with the shift. I've been able to tweak it a little bit. App app to get a little -- to broker at at and it would work -- there's. A lot of you knuckle heads a lot of -- lemmings have never heard of the -- or draw I'm teaching you baseball history right now. Those are usually great Irish baseball totally in play for the west Styron Ireland. Wages or whatever what does UP I don't know. He he does rub some folks the wrong way and you're right members of the media just loves that -- tone but people in the baseball community desire -- manager at their best manager baseball. Just asked of Joseph Madden hall says Joseph Maddon may not that got him -- -- says all the people don't have to -- also no no no it's backed that -- over it and hope that's not just does not focus on championships let's focus on the process. The court he's done with the Tampa -- race. Over the years. Yeah which is not that much to be honest and you're not killer but let the American some credit what -- -- on his role as one with the law open Iran isn't one any thing. He's won a lot of regular season -- -- taught -- it's just like an open Billy being. As being given plenty appraisal over the years as a movie made a bottom. Because Seattle low payroll team and he was able to develop players advocates -- same thing -- Joseph Maddon obviously in a different capacity. As a manager to manager baseball. Really -- ask you to have a 6177797937. Francs down on the K hey frank how are. -- -- French franc was up. -- -- The extent. -- -- not support. Rating. -- What -- -- a little bit last year that the defense is pretty decent last year before that your outlook rumba but what about you run into yet. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Year old 36 opt out of the man older than me -- 37 says -- -- Of course -- Dropped or -- -- -- it step by frank you seem flustered by this -- lost. This invited commentary. Look at the issue it's it would all these global. -- and -- -- all the Super Bowl. So. -- -- OK I want to let this guy from this random guy from Dublin. Get -- hot but there of their folks who just and and and -- -- and those of us who grew up around New England. Most switzer probably Tom Brady fans if you if you're football fan in New England chances are you like Tom Brady. Do I think ultimately he's gonna end up being one of the best quarterbacks who ever played the game when he's -- yeah probably. Is -- also fair to say LS Super Bowl was ten years ago. Yes it's fair to say that is it fair to say that he's not same quarterback at 36. Up 37 but he wasn't one. Six yes it's fair to say that. The last Super Bowl win was ten years ago I've found at that truth -- -- of obnoxious -- to me. Honest. In what sense -- in the sense of it's it's the ultimate is the is the most. Balance lead in North America. It is the ultimate parity sport more than baseball more than basketball. More than hockey. And their teams that. In this division. Who either haven't been to the Super Bowl. Since the merger hello New York Jets keep it. Haven't won the Super Bowl. In in thirty years. Or forty years to Miami Dolphins. And have never had never won a Super Bowl at all clear what role as -- Buffalo Bills and the prevention and a charming. Talk about hate. They winters they had they had their opportunity they -- 07 written in 2011 had a chance to -- going to Super Bowl. It does have some -- does it doesn't make you all warm and Fuzzy inside but. -- haven't won a Super Bowl in ten years because they very -- their. 'cause they've been on the edge. Of winning another Super Bowl don't you think that bothers people more. And that's why people bring up the ten years because. They lost in three FC championship games they've lost in two other Super Bowls had they not gotten there than maybe people bring it up as. The but I guess they're playing and they prefer lack of -- better. Term let's just call -- their their industry so in their industry what the industry standard. There are not meeting industry industry standard set by eight. Denver Broncos. This ever -- 49ers. Giants. Giant today hey you know to make the playoffs last year but. We won a Super -- more recently in the patriots felt is that. Is that the model -- -- certain -- -- I don't get a -- ten years but what happened but my point it's. This date they haven't won a super -- tenure as accurate. But. It's all it seems like a negative thing wouldn't what is what is appropriate what is that beat the gold standard in the NFL. Obstacle what what franchise is setting the standard that the patriots. Have to live -- -- Right now -- out today and play like I I don't know why oh. Well once all but not I don't that that's what I don't hold serve and net. It is -- they have to win it every year they have to win at the that they went one. If they win it this year and that's gonna look at Michael don't you think you win forty. And you still have Tom Brady as your quarterback quarterback. Even the gold standard we have another Super Bowl winning three of Harvard I understand -- -- I understand. That but I think what the gold standard today. Right now today in the NFL be the New York Giants. And I know they didn't make the playoffs last year but they get to Super Bowl championships. In the in the recent past articles that are still patriots because they've won three. On the last panel what an article what because not because they won the Super Bowls. Beat because they've played it's such a high consistent level -- over the last dozen years to meet they are still the gold standard whether they've won. Three Super Bowls or six attacks are here says the Steelers. Now I don't think so there today -- now they're close. Or close to you that that great they are not passed and there are kind of lightly with a -- a franchise that you won a pattern yourself after. -- data and make the playoffs last year right. Correct mimic the playoffs the year before oh don't worry just got knocked out early but say they got knocked out last couple weeks now. Then a year before in -- Tebow right. In Australia the first round. But then again your team that is I would put the giants ahead of them. Based on recent history wouldn't you I would have to say that I'd have to say that John but I think you have to decide what's your recent history music ten years is the last three years. -- what number do you wanna use. It still comes back to this. I understand. That winning winning is winning three Super Bowls trying to rape and not kind of raises expectations. To a level that it is it's tough to imagine it's tough to keep up with it actually when you win three okay for you cardinal had three or four years. That takes it to another level. But there is no shame in being. It's not the goal is not the end game but there's no shame in. Winning three championships. Going to a -- -- to a few Super Bowl in. Losing those Super Bowls if I'm negative but they haven't won a Super Bowl -- here sounds like. And their rulers are what are what happened to order here out what are you guys -- Got a little bit after the -- I'd rather have that than Andy you know I I remember Donna Miami pulled before they went on this run. They won their first championship and with that help me out 2008. That does make it -- 66 about the six. I would go to out of the Miami -- -- go inside the building at American Airlines Arena in 2008. In 2009010. Against one. He's still got decorated all over the place the staying saying stop -- they had three months after the won the championship of trophies and championships and pictures. Very little thing off that one championship like five years that they offer -- live it up the title or grateful for. A little bit of both but after about three years and not winning collection of people winning. Don't you kind of say okay we got to move -- -- we're gonna change our decorations around like you're eligible all the pictures down a July yes. I need to. It's not a bad I got it ten years -- time for the champ got an offer -- -- -- will want to because Miami is historically. The he. Front -- sports lounge fine and they fell off the map. And they won a championship in 2006 a few years later it happened number like that happened to be doubt wrap you wanna be very strange of course nobody wants to be that nobody wants to be the Florida Marlins were you win. And then you just disappeared apart right not necessarily that would do -- -- -- able what you did in 2003. But nobody's living off of it. That -- that you'll have taken you have taken that point. And and and brought it to the level of the absurd or I'm realistic -- one size body is. Living is Tom Brady living doesn't I don't -- off of that it's important thing that you -- -- around here is saying. Hey we won three out of four years that's fine by me and I'm -- never fine. Maybe what's happened here because it was three or four years the recognition how difficult it is to get to a Super Bowl and to win it has been dead and has been less than -- I thought it was so easy it appeared to be so easy. Why can't do that every why did you do it every three years so this to say oh well this team are great organization. The super fiscal 49ers. Are damn good organization ranked yes. The last time they won a Super Bowl. 92. Out knows not one of gunfire was identified. By people like four. Do I mean quit organization to one at the right way. Jim -- law. Coach in about great deep red tape the patriot can have a defense like that. Paper -- municipals since 1994 when you know there's still business. Stewart a good organization. Mentioned the Steelers. You mentioned the Packers. The saints. They won eight super you know you look at the saints won a Super Bowl. In 2009. Are -- a better organization hey someone's. -- five years. Did you have a little issue there in the settlement. And their coach suspended for a year and stuff like -- -- it's hard to get their nobody's just nobody's comfortable with. 83 championships let's just cashing in and and and talk about how great we are. But it sounds a little crazy. They -- it's been a long time manager -- the Super Bowl drought for the patriots. And this is -- not a control. It's dale and -- and Greg Dickerson Sports Radio WEEI. When you look at these decline over the last year is -- money up front lines and strong. He's been struggling under pressure and I think the more pressure he's gonna get over the next couple years however -- you place the worst would -- Tom Brady to a. Personnel doing that the buffalo forty yard like Tom -- at the center looks over the buffalo defense that takes the snap back to me. Brady -- -- governor of the ten yard line and walked into the the end don't start he was wide open Barack. 48 yard touchdown strike. And the patriots regained the lead. Trust me Rob Gronkowski back in the -- would make a big difference to Tom Brady's numbers unfortunately. And I know he says you know recoveries -- no setbacks are these don't find. -- get the sense he's probably not going to be wearing that number 87 Jersey. About halfway through the season is something look good on TV last night. I want dry spot on on -- Andy's computer earlier today I didn't see it laughter bench press in the the host of whose line is that I am anyway. What's -- the surgery. In December. What is his. Most recent surgery. I I don't remember but that sounds right to me so it's. It is June. You're expected to be halfway through the year. Just. I don't expect him to start the season output it that way I'll I'll repeat that part now whether that means the first six weeks he's on start the season on. Popper I don't know but. At what point do you think he's going to be in the why would you think for shore -- widget thing. Anything otherwise might just based on recent history with them well public think otherwise because they didn't seem to do anything they didn't seem to have any moves. That would that would lead you to believe that Crocs are going to be reading to Michael Finley. Well that's junior -- -- junior in terms of injuries yet so all day if you're bringing a marriage your -- insurance policy. It's supposed to be something you're supposed to protect you from injuries but that's but the -- and bull by the. -- regular guy -- you say let me lose -- come now and then he gets injured that I get brought the edge and concern himself. 6177797937. Davids and Len hated it I don't. There have been all right all right David. They I. And common about the Tom Brady Drew Brees statement. Two brief statement can take anywhere from great great quarterback today it will be -- it was capsule. I think that the pink elephant in the room that no one ever talks order. Tom Brady. Has for years for many years since since it began her career I completely -- what would happen you know career. He had no he's had no -- -- receivers. Know what to -- have a couple of there are good tight end in between their parent called a couple of good player. No and I mean beyond that if you look at the number action in the year at the outrage became MVP of Super -- The leader -- with -- did not come back here and into the market. I think that that's. An important factor when actress who Tom Brady the quarterback to make people are -- great -- -- to such a great quarterback. I think all that the really good quarterback Peyton Manning and all of do -- guiding Drew Brees Aaron Rodgers thing all make. Receivers better around them but there's a limit to. How much you can do as well I mean -- I don't think you can take. You know our normal run of the mill receiver and turn him into a Pro Bowl receiver just because it regret a great quarterback on yell out correct them on one of -- points yes. Deion Branch was a phenomenal receiver when he was -- the first time to debate the patriots. And maybe Tom Brady had something to do with that when he came back. It was that I saw noticeable wide receiver but even what in the same receiver he was hopeful for -- -- for Seattle. Well and I'll say this it has been a common complaint of patriot nation. Through the years. Until the year when -- Randy Moss Wes Welker show -- and beat the Patriots offense goes intergalactic. And it race at -- we told -- you'd get if you got Brady goes through those weapons before this is what you could add. And then when you know those guys moss sleeves he could -- away. You know Welker ultimately signs freeagent all of sudden -- kind of back at square one especially with both Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski outline. Hollis and it's like -- It isn't quite what we had before. And problem problem was they went too far the other way. I want to patriots to get Tom Brady some receivers. Are to upgrade at receiver. So it upgraded at receiver. And eventually a year two years. It was at the expense of the defense. They became one of those teams where they put so much pressure on the offense the offense must score must warmest corporate office doesn't. You knew as a patriots fan at the defense wasn't capable. Of stopping anybody in the last time -- got to the Super Bowl the bad defense. Mean look at those numbers yup you can share yardages overrated -- Held at third at that -- man alone on an island out there yet they were 31 round tournament the last China. There are 31 -- -- in terms of giving -- yards. So. But maybe that's the point the point is in the NFL back to parity in the cap yet if you really want to. If you really want to build a balanced team. That you may not have you may not have greatness. Are on offense or defense you just have a very good players across the board but you wanna upgrade. Defensively but it's gonna come at the expense of the office you really wanna have a great offense and come at the expense of the difference is really difficult to find a balance. -- and Springfield senior next on Sports Radio stale and -- I don't -- -- playing. At every port. -- -- Well I'll eat it help. Getting worse as you get older I. Because last year with everything going on -- it you know that he it's getting harder and -- -- -- hurt to do receivers. -- Me and make cute cute and -- -- bring up to be credible and a critical. And I will say Brady. Like last year Brady threw very well. -- the Q school. And and and the right and -- -- and a -- -- here. MM you guys are big no no no doubt every day. Everyone should. All up and criticism on him and killed. The middle of this year. War end of this year because now the receivers. Another year to develop that -- it -- -- better offensive line. Not to eat it helped you know now with -- and another year like it here and I'll be the first one to say oh. Getting older yet. I didn't really think Harry watch it and now. And we. While I think most of us have -- do you see slippage at all you see any slippage in his game. I -- and I know it it sounds like I'm I'm beaten up on these guys and I am not. Which are you know and jewelry that Putin that the guys Brady was dealing with last year you only -- settlement. Was by all are the patriots best receiver and twice as many receptions as number two at a 105 receptions. And let's be honest it never come even close to that at any point in his career. Danny Amendola. We knew we had an injury history when he came in he continued to play that way here only started six games for the patriots played in twelfth at 54 receptions. Rob Gronkowski only played in seven games only started six of them again injury issues. And then you had guys like Aaron Dobson with 37 catches Kimbrel Tompkins 32 catches. Josh -- only had nine. And the -- and you were thrown to guys like Austin Collie and Matthew Mulligan and Michael Allman Iowa new. I don't know how you could have expected his numbers he threw for 4300 yards I don't know what it was for over 4300 yards. He had 25 touchdowns. And I still on how we did it. When I look at the list I don't know how we get it. It in it was my biggest criticism. Of the of the report that months -- he wants to just ignore that. Just ignore who -- throw -- to just ignore whether the offensive line kept him up brighter and I got sacked. Forty times last year. What do you think the last time I Dante Scarnecchia offensive line -- Tom Brady sacked forty times in a year. After months and a regular ball quicker -- it's not -- -- -- took scramble they look at a critical look at Wilson got the pocket sun don't study says hey. You know hold mark for the Bolter law that's footwork not a state senate in his report that footwork not as good as -- once -- as well will have our opportunity. The four best quarterbacks because it is for at four. We've got the opportunity to do that as well. On by the way out we're gonna have to the -- little editing here. I mentioned to you guys earlier I had a feeling. When the Red Sox players got in the clubhouse in the media got two of them it was got a little -- that was just a prediction on my part it did. David Ortiz talking about the -- suspension you'll hear it as soon as weakened bleak but it's coming I'm just few minutes as well.

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