Jan 7, 2014|
One writer/troll thinks so... any way to discredit the Patriots success I guess. We discuss whether luck has been an overwhelming factor in deciding the Patriots fate this past 7 years.
Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.
One day closer Michael one day closer to a Saturday night -- Might it happens it gains on Saturday as most of Sunday inserts one and I like the Saturday and Saturday games are geared to that over -- -- have to wait around for football on Sunday take care but on Saturday night after go into the game. We'll watch out don't temperature goes up like what he's -- thing yet. It happens do you overtime -- overtime just said it's not that bad. Forty degrees compared to what it's been forty degrees forty degrees is terrible but he's been your body has adjusted now. To the and harsh new weight on winter I'm not going I'm not gonna go sit up there in forty degree temperatures were compared to what it's been for the last week or so forty is not that. Is that hazy shade where the Ball State where it right here. Like the Bengals version of that song -- it only like theory to elect the Bengals are all come off a pretty good version of that -- and you don't like the Bengals -- -- issued a winter out as attach that awful movie lessons here. Anderson I can help you I don't but the movie but the salt pretty. Decent does that not -- as far as remakes like that don't feel like it's our right it's okay. Mean I don't I don't like it at all but I I don't wanna keep talking about it. Like. Are. Obama ridicule -- kitchen stove supposed to believe what I read in the newspapers and as usual of course I believe every part of everything newspaper does not want -- nine. -- every single thing I read any news block everything even when the newspapers contradict himself everything realized. Believe at all. The Italy both sides of the climate change to me or you believe that Obama -- the worst thing in the best thing in the world are you believe all that all the ones because you gotta believe at all because the truth in there somewhere black -- Well it possibly be wrong. So hard to believe what I read in the papers the patriots. Are gonna go to the Super Bowl. But not because they're good. Well because their lucky and in fact they've always been out. This is just be in the lucky his team of all time this is are these patriots. Whether you believe this year or for the last twelve years are the patriots are lucky or they -- it. A dozen years of his retirement twelve years -- a dozen years -- are -- the entire run the entire Brady Belichick era that twelve years -- -- and but it's it's not an Oscar nominee pressure to your -- luck apparently. While. Not bluntly that you know I don't believe we've been lucky I think. You know it may turn out. If you think they're lucky. You'd have to say right now they're unlucky you're one of those people that this is that they are not -- again so that. It's an entire time the -- on cricket -- very strangely in that conversation. He says that the Red Sox. Weren't connected. Dan they want the World Series thing they saw Dave O'Brien today let's go to the World Series that they Y and. How they got beat a -- and not that they went to the tigers went to the bond did cardinals pitching staff went to the vaunted all -- god the genius Joseph Maddon. It is great pitching staff right did that. I've been happy to get -- I progressed. If you think the patriots are lucky in the happen lucky this year you have to -- unlucky because I do believe this year. ASE is wide open. And with the AFC being the way it is it's unlucky for the patriots -- their missing. So right because he's just Waltz right wrote a big ticket if if the paper where the -- within the team -- thought they were. The first game of the season. On -- with a first and September night -- whatever -- the injuries it appears that team even without even if you take Lanka. You bring back at you at this the team has to rod male and Tommy Kelly and Vince Wilfork. And Brandon Spikes. And Sebastian -- -- they've got their guys yeah. I think they would company I think it would be no quite. But the flip side of that argument is -- and another year if the AFC was really really good this year and the patriots have had all these injuries that would -- -- clothes they wouldn't even be contenders who would -- -- thinking about it so how lucky for them that on a year in which are going went badly outside it it's still it's still allows them to feel like they still gosh. That's a fair point I guess but you'd have to look at and say which teams are we talking about that. You know the teams that didn't make the playoffs of the teams that disappointed this year. Why did they disappoint. I guess -- only -- only team you can really make case for maybe Baltimore. Not making the playoffs but you know and a lot of retirements. Free agent defections or whatever. I sort of my point is I don't really see a lot of teams. If you restart the season I don't see a lot of teams that. Are are much better that would be. Just dominant over the patriot. It'd be Denver again. If if you let Pittsburgh restart the season with Pittsburgh make the playoffs they'd be nine to seventy and the six of mr. at a -- eight maybe. I am not looking at who we look at. Not Cleveland not Tennessee not Jacksonville Houston. OK if -- if you let Houston restart the season and take away -- close losses they still don't match up well at the patriots they dominated and twice last year. In the regular season and in the policies and so. I don't know that's a that's a fair point that image and it's it's an interest. -- -- -- one look at I just the more I I think about the idea the patriots be lucky -- two guys in the stakes and curious do you think the patriots are lucky. I think a lucky organization -- a lucky team they locked in to Tom Brady -- do you think they just this all was built. On one lucky gamble on the sixth round pick that is turned out to the two worked wonders over the next decade plus. Or their specific instances of blocked three shots is trying to go through it and say you know this team's not that -- they're not as good as they weren't a 30407. That they got a great coach great quarterback and not much else. He writes and and everything else is just attributed to -- other teams grew up just when you need them to that must be locked in and I've never felt that way. I and by the way. I think -- would people say the same thing 2003200407. You're right but it 03 you know for everybody was on the same bandwagon I'll just lock it's just locked. And ultimately I think this. I think we tend to look back at the past and say all the teams were so much better that. Right five years ago they never could have gotten away with this -- teams were so much better back in the day. When the truth of the matter is there is a clear differentiating point you have teams before the cap and after the before the cap was instituted you're right teams are probably better stacked right there -- power house is you can do anything you can keep them forever going right. Even when you were supposed to do that -- or some -- violation as their personal effort Cisco Nortel for doing what they did. But the -- and early eighties niners are not ninety's cowboys freak happening both teams were on believe they were stacked and and no you're right you're probably not as good as those teams were. And I'll tell you one other thing early in you war in viewers in your success. -- curve so to speak your team can sometimes be better because you haven't been cherry picked. Yet especially from all your coordinators and say what you want but all three patriots Super Bowls calm before they lost either their offensive -- defense of coordinator before -- who work for now got picked away. You were able to win three championships during a short window and I was noticing this the other -- just looking at how was Seattle's got a couple of their coordinators both -- Quinn. And the -- about -- -- is not going to plug an interview party lost Gus Bradley was their first coordinator and again. They -- a lot of time. Whereas in the book -- -- out -- bevel assistants he's an incredibly -- human being pastor but he you know what he needs to start doing. Not in this last name but well -- how to make it more exciting. -- -- -- -- -- -- General -- -- developed a little something to kind of rhymes don't let them but you don't usually get much so much time. Right and that all the sudden I -- onto your fourth coordinator in your fifth guy in your seventh on the depth chart coaching wise and it's difficult to keep winning and so. Everything in the league is set up to make you get worse as you go and I think so look I mean I think luck. It's hard. I mean glut is it's part of things have to. You can have a design. But things have to fall your way meant that you have to be well coached that you have to be Smart and captain -- managed a couple of tough to sit and all those things. But being lucky. Is is also part of it is not 75% of its 50% of it it's a part of me look at. Look at the patriots and they go outside of the patriot. They had a sixth round pick who turned into the best quarterback of all time. That's scouting that quarterback in that he'd be good packet for you not knowing that he'd become great but you did you put the work in the state. He's a guy who kid who can help our team and then he improved beyond your wildest imagination -- wildest expectations became good -- but the other. Seattle has a terrific quarterback become a firm ground. -- to score as the perfect young quarterback got a second round. Drew -- the second round pick -- the other guy -- Peyton Manning came from a football family first round pick number one overall pick. Rivers top pick Cam Newton number one overall pick -- you look at some of these guys Andrew Luck number one overall pick. But it it's a balance. You have. The guys who were just it was just it was and they were anointed the -- the blessed ones that are useful ones. Or some other guys you know and and we never thought he'd be this good but it's good for us but you have to build a real fresh -- Around most epic got lucky put Tom Brady and they didn't do anything else right okay. You got Tom Brady and think he's pretty good but your team is eight made every year or nine and seven. That doesn't explain right this whole wrong. I don't think it does it all but you're right luck luck luck -- always gonna play and everything I mean unfortunately for the San Francisco 49ers the year they had the number one overall pick it was Alex Smith. The year that India the number one overall pick it was Andrew Luck and that's just bad luck for San Francisco and good luck for Indianapolis they get the guy who's going to be incredible and -- Cisco and Alex Smith who has been good but took spot seven years to develop -- to being what it was going to be like sometimes you get Cam Newton. Sometimes you don't rented it on other parties work. To another part of story now you. Don't like amnesty for now I do I like -- or should. But I understand what it is. It is guilty pleasures of -- opportunity talk trash -- -- -- A -- work in their place that you're -- from the first one whatever. This offensive bulk are you didn't did you break. We're to -- finish after bend in the rules. I'd gotten out of the money place out of the money didn't show how it and show but I think it was cabby out of one that Bradford to. And then I was there I was hoping you can third person. Holly if Michael's third. But not -- and -- -- on a one under your fantasy football has been a lot of times. And in the in our and our football obsessed football crazed country. We are we show ourselves to be impatient. And superficial. Superficial comes to fantasy football the top scores in Tennessee for. Ball are the people that their household names you don't count and Johnson and home who got Jamaal Charles at home got Adrian Peterson. And home. All of Matthew Stafford all these big fantasy football produced AJ green simulator you're at home. All these guys and so if you don't have if you don't have one of these top fantasy football performers. Your average football watcher might say you're not a good heard this guy Julian element. Richard name yesterday Britain name. Posey. Ticket when he -- -- get right teams acts. Like Robert -- only does point must not be that good I think that's part of it in the impatient part has nothing to do with analyzing teams but its just. Wanna get done now -- why -- that's why coaching in this league is insane right. You know -- not -- a year or -- You out of it if your Andy Dalton and you improve from here one a year three all your numbers go up the winds go up for your team but if you are. If you have the the that this fortune. Up being bad in the post season at 26 years old then you're done. So I think that's part of it I think the fantasy football culture it's. -- -- -- -- just -- of started -- center Jamaal Charles conversation we were having yesterday in the -- running back they amending running backs are obviously very important fantasy football. When I watch NFL games I don't see that running back being the premier position it used to be for the most part teams used to running -- some sort of a committee they don't want to let the guy take as many snaps as he once did they get beat up the difference between the third running back in the league in the 27 running back in the league I don't think is all that different you're right there's a few guys that stand out. Peterson stands out maybe Charles is close to maybe even on that list from a fantasy perspective -- absolutely your records and other -- to make the right -- three guys all our our our little bit of a difference maker. But not compare to the import to the quarterback position. Compared to the importance of of what you quarterback does in the final few minutes of a close game because shady McCoy I'll keep -- close for you he's probably -- -- winning game by himself in the first 58 minutes in my Italian and whatnot aren't -- -- -- -- but it's not gonna happen Alpharetta are running back just wins a game yet. And how it pretty dynamic times they you know the whole quarterback a signature you're you're quarterback theory yesterday and earlier today. Well the whole thing has to blow up when you look at who won the Super Bowl last year and -- -- -- great quarterback played great in those moment every -- one of the game lightly when they don't is that Joseph Flacco still Flacco but he. The middle of the pack quarterback who can't beat the top ten quarterback while he's. I didn't play like it this year there's no doubt -- consistent but Flacco when he's on plays that way he's consistent he's streaky when he's playing great he's amazing when he's playing Portland -- Or -- -- better than in the NFC right now final were able to wait please be sure none of none other everywhere else George Bush have -- played the entire year Lester I'm -- post season. It's hard year because your -- are judging a quarterback -- anybody get hot in the post season and you say all right well great. He's currently where he did not have a great season leading into the speech did not so. You can win. You can win a Super Bowl without having an -- court. You need your report back to what he believes it did lead a lead for those couple weeks he did I'd -- to do about it but he did not not everybody can score -- few weeks it doesn't happen that often that a mediocre quarterback. Please lights out for five weeks leading up to two lead into the plants into the Super -- it happened for Joseph Flacco last year he won them those games in the end the games close games late did what he needed to do to get them -- -- -- helpful and healthy body to -- -- in -- -- I think what we got and he made some big throws them mr. debate throws. That were bad that that are squabbles and turn and to get rose -- crumpled yet but he also put it right spot foreign horrible I don't know I just -- In my world view the quarterback does almost everything and everyone else is along for the ride six point 77797937. Get to you guys -- start what Bob was in a car. It. Although you know at the patriots were lucky. That the patriot in court. Well patriot are a lot to. -- -- -- correct and then you've got lucky yeah I mean -- My -- says that. My oldest if you'd like. Where -- -- had all the new law he didn't he's so great and. Use substance like kind of a pain in the -- -- -- and -- -- but he sounds a little bit of opinion your car bumpers or the but about war. Well yeah it hit him. I thought this. I got I don't know it's also the fans are lucky because they have they have the opportunity to watch. So many great teams over the years I think that -- That I didn't look at this for a long time I've kind of believe that there is a lock factored Tom Brady into the patriots I don't know that this year is the year that does it for me -- When you go back to go to the way they got some of the super balls they got to an and one -- There -- always did feel like there was an element of -- that the game in the timing of it would always just kind of worked out the -- Brady would need to do was -- fifty yards to kick a field -- the end of the game and it was always a three point game it was never four point you know to -- was always a -- three point game -- never four point game he never needed to score a touchdown in the last minute until they lost to the giants it was always a field goal that he needed and and John -- would kick the ball out of bounds and things that things would work out for them but. I thought put some of that on -- and I really do think Brady for a long time things just kinda. They just kind of worked out for I mean the guy worked hard incredibly already he was he I mean he's really known as they hardworking guy who we can't keep away from the weight room and the film -- But then get off that hard work would turn itself -- lock late but I mean he's -- his hard work did not make John Kasay kicked the ball -- shot. But that doesn't happen all championship team it seems like I -- -- championship via that you watched those a lot of these America's game documentaries these features. On -- -- I'm telling it that you can you can mention a championship team and give him about. But honestly think the 1970. Line in. Dallas Cowboys what -- I don't I don't care about the team watch it. Because they're so they're so well done one exception. Of the Steelers to -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- But if you look at all of the -- area all of the -- championship -- they always have something like hey. If this had happened. We never would have been here take last year for example. Talk a lot about Peyton Manning especially the -- wins on Sunday in the papers went on Saturdays and a lot of Brady Manning talked again. And the ravens don't have a championship if it's not for bone. -- -- My mother Betty hated his lockyer the flooding in -- -- -- -- with K you -- happens well it's lucky for you. But it it's part of what the other team is I mean the other team has backed guy on their team he screws up in a big moment whether it's John Kasay kicked the ball out of bounds or whether it's or whether it -- everybody's name from UCLA -- Ricky Moore. Who gets who who isn't completely the wrong fellows like this political -- But that's on your team wanted to split out lock. And might be locked for -- unfortunately for him a guy and his team didn't get it done but it's not on lucky but nothing more -- I think if you look I -- about what if you look at all. Championship. All championship teams. They usually have something. They usually have some play some story some game that. You know can have gone the other way and we know what that story is for the 2001 patriots have had several of those stories. You know -- we talk about 2006. In the colts and the comeback they had against the patriots and that carries them to the championship. The giants and David Tyree and they're so many things but the one the one you know what there's a borderline play it right part of me that says there -- that that luck does play -- huge factor and certainly I mean like the David -- -- out of bounds play that out yet addressed again it -- indicated that I got -- That's luck there there's there was no skill involved in that whatsoever that was locked. A fumble which way a fumble bounces that regard all my luck -- -- -- passage got a camera could have been up. I -- those things are lock. Whatever else I mean look the ball goes through -- -- Rodney Harrison's hands late in the game in 2007. Is that padlock is a good luck for Eli now. The patriots had a guy and their team had the opportunity to make a play. Rodney Harrison was great for million other reasons but maybe if they had a different safety he makes that catch because he's got better hands in that moment I mean. There is still something to the fact that that's the guy you chose and in that moment even if he was in position to make a play the didn't make a play. That's -- you that's on your team there's no luck involved 67779790. -- will keep exploring yours rockaholic WB yeah. Well he's he can do a lot of things as a player that. Great ability to throw the ball and see the field their -- Touch plays and -- the ball downfield. Very poisoned pressure. And does a good job. In -- move in the pocket and also move and out of pocket he's around for some key first downs. And he's also been able to a lifetime with a slaves and field. Fun scramble plays loose plays. After. The initial please. And then run it and you know he can improvise and make things happen so he's very. Very tough got a -- he do a lot of things to be -- you go to go at all. Bill Belichick got in there yesterday on our show here about Andrew Luck. He does do all those things he is a good player. I understand what you disrespect Paul Simon me. And I was talking about this version but that there is no word on whether written up and against the the original this -- supplement to the big song and this is pretty true to the original in the hands. That's in the think it will differently I forgot that a couple going to. It's quite correctly. And you've got to yourself that have been doing this. To come back here -- -- please explain. The -- of the -- accidentally you know. Mean I don't wanna I -- manic Monday and walk like an Egyptian. This one maybe can be no external users are. Maybe maybe would have to make the audience listened to it just to -- -- -- can remember it. Story calls in the meantime because a curious whether or not this they're they're really is a bully for the patriots lucky if you believe. That there is a huge amount of skill involved is there. A lot of blocked a little bit of Locke and certainly if you think it's luck this year. Do you think this year's patriots team -- the -- because I don't like that at all the expectation level I have for them was that they will be worse than they are right now. In that was before they went lost all the players that have been lost throughout the year. Other than Aaron Hernandez he's the only one I knew was gonna be gone and I thought Rob Gronkowski would be here for the year but not gone again. All right at that point I thought they were at best and eleven and five team instead they got twelve and four get a first round bye in a year in which the rest of the league is not that good. They haven't gotten much worse they haven't dropped off as far as the rest. I that the league is that think Natalie if he's not likely to the teachers are confident to senate senate before he said it when he -- That we romanticize we got past years now remember very distinctly remember Sean Salisbury. When he was on the ESPN I turn to remember to romantically well okay well it was much of the moment or live I'm leaving in Australia and about romance wouldn't that was totally not an appropriate well. I don't know -- that -- with a good strategy but that that's generally not I think the real question is I don't know how many people he ignored when they say this is not a good strategy okay this is not good not -- the -- open house very when he was talking football on ESPN. All the time. San Diego Chargers the most talented team in football. And knowing the -- biggest win because of the got brains but they're not that could not that talented and and that all of -- initial four. It's dumb. It really is going to be a -- about it what. Kings win is you know points it is is Michael. Is Michael Crabtree is played what six games. Six games 67 games. Is here at the top fantasy football performer. Has been this year was not for most the year. Is that why they win is that -- good. -- cannot predict what 1819 touchdown passes during the season. Is that it. Just a good team. -- you know a good -- -- -- no -- -- that no matter how well and that's what's gonna win their -- qualities that do not show up when you're looking -- talent -- looking -- amnesty or even necessarily looking at film or why not we'll look at them which is watching the game as a -- that play a huge role whether or -- teams -- in the patriots have always been a pretty high in that category Smart players in the right place at the right they're -- top -- -- -- a huge respect for situational football know what to -- and each spot. Being prepared for all the complex things that are gonna come your way. It'll last I just watch and indeed the BCS game last night it looked like it took Florida State. A full half. To get used to what -- -- on offense is doing to write this whole idea of the date they -- two feet from the ball and bam they're just out there and they're they're there in their formation already you don't get time to set it up and move things around and readjust. Take some time to get that out what makes the patriots special. Is that there are always ready for that stuff. They've already practiced at that party simulated -- -- gone over the situation that such a strong respect for these things and they've been together so long under Belichick. That they are there are on steps six of the program instead of always having to be its step one and two and those things. The depth op the Augusta -- think there's a bigger thing in this league. You know you talk -- happily we if we keep talking about the cap and how amazing it is that anybody whether the patriots. With the Steelers with a giant can be multiple champions. Multiple Super Bowl champions in this cap era that you have to look at. Players. 37 through 53 and -- with their right now that it's not always fun. They don't show -- when your highlights is not going to be Erica. In ESPN package on your 38 bass player but that's where it -- again I don't know who's going to be standing have no idea. It's going to be standing at the end but what we're going to be saying about that team is. There are incredibly deep. And they and they probably gonna have a good quarterback but that's another eleven got to talking about that part of this -- a matter but you always got to keep coming back to that number one guy you talk about top heavy and -- is -- is going to be maybe 234. On the list. The quarterback is always going to be number one as long as you got Tom Brady. Everything else is not lucky everything else is you got Tom Brady may be reluctant to get them but don't tell me you were you know what he called them a monolith or whatever was. In in 20034. And seven lasted a -- that they were masked is announced that on a mass that. -- -- -- front of the -- the propeller battle it's definitely level either way don't tell me that they were lucky now but not then either way to beat them the real -- was getting Tom Brady and having Drew Bledsoe give weight to him. -- -- -- -- -- They guys I don't know -- Tony doing great. -- you don't offer nothing but you know what. Jeff we've played at 1018 that you can think of that missile global run. Did there had to be a place somewhere along the way that they think that's a lot got a little. But there is a fumble that ball away or bad call whatever. Now. The patriot being where they are I think you know he can't get a lucky for twelve years that's for sure what they put themselves in position where. With their talent their coaching where if there was a little bit of luck involved in the -- it would really help them win the game. Whereas you know jacket so all the luck this year -- helpful. It also I think total. What is the what about what about the idea that all of those good breaks you mentioned it bounced off by bad breaks along the way right. Patriots catch a good break with a bad interference call that puts Josh -- near the end zone but they kept bad luck on the bad call with the jets are Babylon Carolina South Carolina media some that just has to even out over the course of sixteen plus games right. And it added value -- lock in to get absolutely goes both ways but. It took out the Taliban out what the Taliban have a coaching staff they are put them in the position every year to. -- lucky or unlucky plays really make a difference so I mean I think any team that has made it to the big dance. Okay the big game. -- looked up to play along the way you can think of that was lucky. No no question. Yeah I just bet there's one that you're not thinking of that balances out. Right army but there's always say that and I think Tony's right there's a high profile. Play there's a play that everybody's talked about hey remember this remember we all remember that Denver Baltimore game. Where the game was over you know Denver -- do -- To stay back. And you solve this thing away and you move on to the AFC championship game -- might affect your hosting. The AFC championship game. And then then it turned into a disaster so a bit but I'm sure. There were other things along the way you're right for Baltimore. That it didn't take advantage of -- -- and things didn't work out there's -- remember that but there's also this belief out thereof you know the patriots do their thing and and they always get lucky because the other coach does something down. Well don't you think the other coached -- something dumb against every team. The other coaches do dumb stuff all the time. Right not they're not just doing it against the patriots the patriots maybe take advantage of it more but I think coach is only do dumb stuff against the patriots and their lucky because of a maybe maybe Bob Kravitz and Indianapolis -- gonna talk to next hour maybe he wrote that after fourteen to. The patriots. Bill Belichick with the bank -- all of a cult they -- got lucky and got lucky. Goes forward on Portland's opener on what I got a Belichick go for a fourth and two because the colts put him in that position with the success and strength of their office right. That's why wasn't I mean yes it was it worked out really well for indeed the Bill Belichick decides to go forward and then they stop them it didn't work great. But the reason he had to go for it would have done that against another team. If they're played a team with a mediocre offense doesn't go for go for a pair of fourth and two iconic government defense on that you -- the -- -- out there it is a -- quarterback whatever -- to do but you've got Peyton Manning. You've got an all star high octane offense I've got to go forward because I trust my defense to stop the great team you've created. -- that's putting pressure on Bill Belichick have to do something abnormal items of working in your favor and sought by the way. You know that passed it were to now have and for me catch. It was a first down. There the official said he ball pretty clear that -- in the bottle it and having -- -- your bubble. What you have. X ray vision Superman's X ray vision to -- -- revision got to have that freezing browser that rounds like the patriots are lucky as far as I'm freezing breast unlucky patriots Johnson -- John. -- we don't -- -- no bowl parade around downtown let's about it. Or Macs are practical and also speaking about -- I wanna -- is just normal public to a pizza place that. And now I was with my daughter so want to get her some milk they only had strawberry and chocolate milk no regular milk than normal for a -- like -- A pizza shop -- who goes and gets regular milk and -- to play a two year old. A regular milk while. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- And basically shot because -- the past decade the patriot -- lucky in running other championships and everything. But that he happened -- -- in the -- biggest. Lucky plays that went against them in the future bubbles. I think we agreed the patriots were the better team and you David Tyree in the park without Mario Manningham up the sidebar and. What goes on -- David Tyree may have been a little like him that won't happen in that's tough to catch a ball like that that's that little lucky but we'll keep it. A pass. A pass from Eli man that's a thing of beauty man that is that is that that is beautiful that is artistry. Eaten ten out of ten times -- put that ball. In that was like me and I'm Angela said that's what you gotta do -- this old John wanna win the super ball. Got it can't be ordinary extraordinary John I caught the Super Bowl as a. They got a thirty think Adam Vinatieri kicks a 47 yard field goal ten out of ten times in the snow forty yeah. You don't do that that's always does not that it does not he hit it when it absolutely mattered I get a look if you wanna -- it is the -- one was lucky. I mean it was bizarre enough that maybe maybe you could call lock you can't see the pastor Manning with rock creek pass. It was a perfect pass in the perfect staff also Manningham made a great cat I -- coming out and just outlaw -- -- this that it makes you. John mr. chocolate milk. That it is an offense I can quite tell -- I look at chocolate it's not quite offensive Hamas told DB Boehner so I'm not I'm not I'm not offended as an agent returned. Mom -- -- more a more confused than offended but you know if you -- talk about the the -- of that pass. Eli Manning to Mario Manningham. Great pass me and I -- this is what this also happened. It was sterling Moore and Patrick Chung and covered. And they were late they were look they were hair late it's politics. So he had a he had he window to kind of a stick then there they provided a forum. -- Patrick -- no longer here also at home for the playoffs sterling -- -- all these Little League anymore. So that that that was a part of it. And if you have a little bit better depth if you if you build your team a little bit differently -- -- -- a different quarterback -- that spot may be last to make it different -- maybe you're able to stay with them. -- replace the cowboys now I'm sure when I don't played. Anyway the path to these cars are on market probably -- are we thought you had a job but it it it turns out we are more your cost of experts veterans haven't got point 92% so that kind of creeps -- can I can't quite often blocked. Here on salt and -- WE. You know -- you're sort of sneaky programme that. Emerson lake and -- lucky man thought golly WEEI. Talking about the patriots -- I'm start to worry much. How old pushed him jobs. Arms are just woke up this could feel lucky man oh my god upon man of good Emerson quicker Palmer and they chose. -- against. Currently sixty early 60s50s late fifties -- at least should memory be a concern for him now yet according to his Wikipedia. Page yes he has next he's six yet. Let me just sixty so should we can't worry we be worried about the -- memory now I just as we're talking about -- thinking about Johnson called from the morning. Near the end of the column there there's two lines blew east and there's two lines the jump out that make any that you. It was real back then the patriots were the best they beat -- they just stand back play mistake free separate football and watch you beat yourself. Yet about the man yes talking about right do you not remember everything everybody in the world at about the patriots in the early part of this -- either not that good they just play mistake free the other team beats them all they do not make a mistake and let the other team the other team lost every game the patriots never won it. And -- It was a real back then. They -- ago. About whether or not we we glorify the sweated and this is the ultimate act like you're now remembering early patriots teams as as as your ass kicking. That the ultimate stand back in the state -- world will know what it's good result by how many points combined won the won each of them by three yet. Was that a combined nine. Question marks -- its annual. -- you know we've got me I've lost my confidence. Could start I've lost my confidence that's what did you lay up its target to go on again I have no confidence and I warm up -- no confidence. Malaria and keep moving back wanna do with one -- -- -- only two and -- them all electric really. One of them Vinatieri -- with the kick against. Carolina to win or lose it. No really is wintertime. Is -- in -- Jonathan well but he's got a few years. Texas -- of the -- the future of America. Yeah who prefer to use so because silky swing some difficulties -- now that a good thing but supply. Michael's forties on. Silken tuchman spoke and talked wannabe while wanna be soy milk so I don't throw it that's still -- is not the thing that Julian settlements talking about his. Weird all -- when they're in the winner's list as you call it sick even though it might be Ellis silent where was where was that are not I saw us on yes and -- -- a few places and on a sought to where -- yogurt. This is now his audience. Heard it too much. It would have been I feel like it was something enzymes. It is really funny. Sound effect it's hard to tell just means actually signal. Which. You know it's LSI LK. But Ellis Island I think that's you know Romanian or something. May end up. -- man the whole thing really is funny he's made into movies and given you a lesson or near vacant -- these are clearly carbon sound effects. That. Milk to the Ellis silent we could really be 62 shot rebel. I was not on them as Johnson Merrill touch on. Hey guys on the or did you bond that good or look conversation. I actually think that -- interesting point came from the from the sort itself. On the 23 of December we here at Bill Belichick on with Bob Allen have -- some of the good Bob -- asked about it. It then that. Bill you know -- It's part of the gate and much like your earlier caller Bob that I mean. Yeah you can be lucky and good I don't see why there needs to be in the war in the confrontation. And basically I remembered building that they would. You know there comes -- point where -- you've done all the preparation and you Donald studying. And there is certainly a degree of luck that that comes with -- any outcome. That the the lucky thing that we have it. A team that you know is run by great management great ownership and you mean that that really as Bob earlier caller said we're lucky it's -- Into record that is good and good management. But I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with being -- the degree of luck involved. Yeah -- -- column this morning. Didn't really airport didn't agree with his take on it but they get the bad thing at all to -- -- -- -- Rather direct I think that's what have we were talking about that earlier. Your championship team. Almost in any sport but especially in football. Appalling and I look at can baseball with a look at what we've done here -- Shaughnessy is saying that the that the patriots -- -- And he also said in a previous column at the the patriots aren't good -- Red Sox -- -- Look at the Red Sox. We know they won the World Series but look at how they did it. But what they did in in game two against the tigers in the ALCS. You know you get down you think I'll -- is going to be it's going to be -- going -- the Grand Slam it's almost caught them on and on. So Amanda says this is nothing new -- you can be lucky most most of them are you. You bring up rather mockery of a great point when you bring up the Red Sox I think because it leads back to a bigger question about locked in sports and the way we look at these team into the way all of our memories just kind of go honestly about it next -- -- while we continue on here WB. This whole idea block is is fascinating to me and you bring up the Red Sox from this past year whether or not they were lucky turning an all around. There are a lot of comparisons to be had at this point between the patriots in the Red Sox. Right the patriots this year went into it with lower expectations because of the changes that they had made in because of the changes that have been made for them gronkowski injury Hernandez leaving it's better. The Red Sox went into this season with reduced expectations because what happened the last few years and you get to the post season and at that point we said all right. The Red Sox have already exceeded expectations anything they do now is a bonus. They are embedded -- but we didn't meet that exact -- but nobody really means that right because when your team is there. You want them to winner Osi gonna be crushed if they lose we never find out how we would have felt if the Red Sox hadn't completed -- goal because all these obviously they did it. The patriots and that same spot right now tell me you thought they were going to be twelve and four with -- first round -- you get ready to face the colts in the second week of the post season you did not and if I told you the beginning of the year this would happen needs a great. -- after that especially with all the injuries they've had is -- I don't know -- yourself now that not right with with the Red Sox story of lower expectations it was. It was the fact that they had gotten. They hadn't been good the year before. People were batted ownership and they were underwhelmed by the free agent signings so I think that led them to lower expectations. But the patriots. Manager David go to AFC championship game last year. And they still had Brady still had Bill Belichick and they still plan AFC east -- I I can't say I'm shocked at their 124. And that's something 11512 point four. That's generally what they do have a brother -- CBS and habits that must have been CBS. Or or maybe -- and who who who who cares but that is that is. They were comparing to teams that it had the most consecutive winning seasons. The patriots have had thirteen consecutive winning seasons. And the team in second place had I think 545. So get used to it and maybe you shouldn't get used to it maybe you should step back and have some perspective and say. It's not that easy to go twelve and 411 invite you to the -- is -- but we're there that's what we do. So it's not really surprised I would be would be shocked if most people said -- This -- -- -- it's as great as it does this exceed anything I had mine for the patriot. It definitely exceeded what I -- -- I mean they got I thought they're gonna be a bad team I mean but I thought they would go 10611 and five things broke there way I thought they were ten and sixteen and I thought nine and seven. Was a possibility for them as well and shame on me. For not remembering the Tom Brady is Tom Brady -- army for not realizing the Bill Belichick -- find a way to keep games close until the end and then -- Brady do was staying at their running game would be better than it's -- -- the but but at those things of -- certainly happens. And they find themselves at 2412. -- everything gravy from this point on. Now I don't think so because you look at what else is out there in the in the AFC. And none of the other three teams look like world beaters they are all our teams that -- capable of beating one of them you've already beaten and the other two I think you look at it and say they're certainly capable of -- so. Now I I don't think that that your. Happy with where they are at all tens of rocks at him. Yeah well. If that's -- guys are Tim Lister. -- in the car -- month period gentlemen good afternoon Monty doing. Go to Manhattan a volume I know that sometimes I call up and rip it talk about your opinion in -- case. And meet each act than me because he mentioned that unit head Jamaal Charles -- -- -- -- all -- -- -- -- Sure I expect. Jamaal Charles -- not a big ball -- -- out of the running back. What different arguments like Jamaal Charles I mean he's good running back he's fine. It's good -- because of me was considered in the top ten of the top 100 players that voted by players. On -- you know personally know -- article he's fine he's fine he's good running back -- and he's gonna. Okay. And also didn't have any idea why they waited so long as -- surgery did -- really don't want the swelling to go down. Need the MC LT he'll once the MCL heels then they can do the ACL surgery. Lou. An audience he'll how they do the seals. Okay all right good guy has been a lot of our tax money are seldom locked in a good year but the exciting thing. I you know I had some disappointing he backed out on that did Jamaal Charles to carry it. You don't deserve to be ripped to shreds. On the Jamaal Charles -- man. Is -- He's more than good -- these are running back is good at running back. But the patriots don't have a running back you don't care that that they have somebody -- -- -- let me keep telling you keep telling Josh McDaniels to use rabbit what do we have. What do they get the same philosophy that you have. As you know you have Josh McDaniels here. And -- and Josh. United just mortified. And more pride -- just you don't you don't Hoosier running backs and he said -- Brownback and -- editor Robert I'm not saying oh there's a huge difference. -- on the ball and which running back gets -- mean. My feeling is running Baxter shouldn't turn the ball. Don't turn the ball over pick up the art that are available -- you and if you get a couple of extra yards and still be good for you -- -- -- a whole new addition pretty much yeah -- but off the running game I think running the ball is important I don't think the running back -- all -- my computer or edit it. What do you think running the ball. In the game is important. Then the guy running the ball. He's not that important the offensive line is a lot more important running the ball in the running back there is a -- don't you think there's a degree of of talent it was some some art whether like a great -- some are better some are much better than others that in. So much better than others a couple of guys older sister and a -- at the same well no not really. Some are much better than others of taking advantage of the things that they offered to -- does Wear them. An art an average back my -- -- two yards in exceptional back -- -- former occasionally I mean I think for the most part the guys get roughly once there may be a couple of extra yards pop legend -- to matters the difference between a great running back and mediocre running back is so so. And and -- even if we -- eight. The real argument is about taking off the extreme you're right there's one or two running backs in the game probably make a significant difference of one to two running backs in the game. They just -- they just aren't capable of doing what they need to do but the real argument is that guys. Three to route 29. Are basically the same I just don't buy that I can name I can name a few guys. Who are more special. So. Notion nice you know John Marino is not -- -- you go to Richard and of course one of the ball Charles. While Marshawn Lynch. Is it easier to talk to us now I'd like Mariano -- I'm watching a -- -- that's -- -- I saved him for last on purpose I like our John harsh but I don't think he's I don't think he's that different from so many other guys. Now the inability it would be a completely different team without him. -- -- -- These -- Robert turban part war. If you look at marsh island is war. It's pretty easy it is but he sets the -- -- not say there are guys that don't set a -- for their team but for the most part you can replace a running back you can. If you have a running back it's hurt you find another guy who has roughly the same style. And aren't you go on the of those of three or four best running backs in the game a shady -- team -- one and done. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- And then did you see that that they're trying to -- that then. Fans are trying to pay his bill form. He says banks will take the money don't it to charity it was eleventh that's -- -- have not allowed to do that you look at -- -- Peterson didn't make the playoffs and records is a good running this very -- -- -- a lot of running backs it up and I don't know I don't know -- -- better than others said. Three or 29 in the -- there aren't many guys in the league like Marshawn Lynch like you right thing or another running back in for the San Francisco 49ers -- be -- I would guess you warned that often opens up gigantic holes they'd be fine. I have had no doubt they would be -- give them different starting running back they would be justified at the same thing with Seattle where am -- different start running back they'd be fine art you resist it -- -- get -- Steven Ridley. They're presenting baby a similar team and hate Steven -- all year -- he's fine and he's a fine back I like them better I think they're safer when they go with a guy that fumbles last. But ultimately they'd be fine. Before I brought it back it is not that important to me give me the quarterback. -- the guy that really matters give me an offensive lines open up holes for that running back and I think if we just don't fumble the ball pick up your three or four yards -- move -- -- and so -- and Matt Forte is -- Italian team didn't make the playoffs but you're talking about. Some really good running backs who are much better than the average. So I don't buy that the position can just be dismissed like aren't -- charge on -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Not a -- -- start -- that -- Michael Holley props during his patient and tolerant with his co host. Okay yeah I can get that would come as a safe. So it let me let me put things together delegate -- talks saying that he was disappointed because the weather wasn't so bad he -- sort of watch him play -- game because of the weather. What is football and the mood holds on second John is not a whole bon -- on hold on hold to -- your view of new England and excellent security but you've got what. Give your opinion at new England and exit the EIU Georgia I'm curious. In terms of what you wind light. It looks he'd tolerate -- -- -- -- day or what you see a legend and we know pop off the guy's a great one. That it -- seen to challenge our listeners on the on the left of my friends are holding out and yeah I would must now. Are you gonna tell you why did Jennifer Lewis has been different tell your friends to listen dammit I got -- let it come on now -- -- have been -- -- you're going to be real friends. And listen. Support like all the because that's a -- you wanna support Michael because of the way. I want to Alter the quality and no I really think I watch football 'cause of the weather. Is so you think. You're smarter guy and yet adequately. Allow -- -- by the millions that's not you don't actually think that right. Among wonder -- you know you're not on your line. -- -- -- Don't lie you're on the radio in front of -- Michael and god. Don't you start listener first time full audio and god. Over and I'm I didn't see you I'm not gonna sit here with -- in the studio. A. I'm at a -- yes I -- not god come on man you don't really think that but the spectacle of it. Doesn't make a football game even even jump off the page. That does as part of the fun of that game on Sunday afternoon wasn't watching to see what the weather would do to wit and also part of the fun of you look at even games that we've. There we go crazy about you mentioned earlier. -- -- -- The fact this part of the Dallas part of -- -- thought well what's going on everybody's looking at a school that. And it came in New England. It's knowing guys are falling all over replace Tom Brady tried to spike the football all -- he fell down -- taxes -- on snow angels. That after the game after the win -- never forget my boy who watch in a bar no sound on Brady spikes the ball my body panicked. He's got to get a penalty didn't roses touchdown he described that are going to be -- great he had no idea what you know of the sound on you would have had no idea. The he had scored a touchdown he's jumping around his grieving that -- screwing up the game. Meanwhile scored Ortiz is the touchdown. On the and that's part of the spectacle that doesn't mean that's the only part of the game that intrigues me eat part of the spectacle of makes it fun. It was a rock for him. Our. Are you guys don't like them. I completely Alitalia and -- for a while and I really called in about couple much less than I did call. I post a loose talk and wanted to -- -- in general in them. And I decided about. What -- -- -- Arctic would make sixteen is Belichick and pre. I think you don't have Belichick Brady your it is seen as he goes nowhere at all and I almost that I really liked how she got it back. O'clock exactly and he tried kind of astronaut and I was dead wrong but. I keep on top -- -- ESPN NFL network built on what to say anything at all about Belichick and Brady yeah. And down and you actually get back -- how are you don't want it now. I don't I don't glad I believe it's a foundation again and everybody says that that -- stars we have. You know ownership the head coach and the quarterback you have to start with that that's the start of an -- and a -- and you get. In Europe way ahead and headed in the game if you have 380s. In those categories. Right. Does that mean it doesn't that really diminish everyone else and everything else if you have a great quarterback you have me. Great head coaching great ownership that is -- the rest of it just paint by number -- Obama a chemical that's sort of believed him what you're saints let me ask. Guys -- -- to other players who is gonna try to -- them to -- you predicted great place and you know it's gonna. It's a great play great quarterback Belichick -- the -- approach. And I bet you put those who is the worst team in the league I bet it did to bring that keen to play cost containment. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- And their head coach in just give me the other fifties you know if the guys -- -- three quarterbacks and their coach he can at least fifty guys and no head coach and rank the teams. The patriots -- what the best middle of the pack. So later did you get they have an offseason parties on an out just how they are right -- -- of course so is Bill Belichick is not done. He's not in charge of any draft and he just how you are -- -- -- what your -- -- right out and now our middle of the past seven Macs -- for seven or eight. For Jacksonville maximum. I don't know -- -- imagine different questions. If if you just have to rank the patriots every other person on their team their fifteen on quarterbacks -- 51 -- and and no head coach where do you think that roster ranks right now. In the week. Well if the doctor really yes I don't think so at all. I don't think they're close I don't think so I think Eric Massa got a middle of the pack roster and you've got Tom Brady and bill dollars an inning. So we kind of need some. Non. Record that puts up this is out of you're you're baking you're making the point without realizing it make him. If you if your point is that Bill Belichick is excellent. And therefore everything else policy you know I have an excellent to Bill Belichick -- Tom Brady. Part of the reason there roster I think -- in the top ten. Is there aren't -- the roster is designed. For who they are right the coaching staff totally agree. And for what what the strengths aren't they they complement each other so I think it is a well constructed Ross I agree with. Much more so than many rosters in the NFL that's -- the top ten easily. I don't know and if they don't have -- like a ton of big names but if you're talking about the depth of the roster clearly. I got to do think the -- and Bill Belichick is great. I don't think he's so great. That he -- lose. Good players and replaced them with bad players and still being in position. Yes to it and I don't host Tom Brady you know weighing in calculus to liberate all you guess he's not that good -- -- be not that -- -- okay players or mediocre players -- I think he -- given him credit in one way and taking away credit from them and another way right of credit for being able to coach players. Which -- taking away what he's done in the offseason. -- Stockpile this team was some really good players don't get a lot of acclaim. Now I think it's a little bit of both men because I think a lot of those guys at the end of the roster who have done some things to help the patriots win games they disappear years later Belichick himself decides they can be upgraded. I mean the sterling Moore is that you're talking about the earth wind Orleans. The Hank Poteat and those guys around for year two and -- says. The schedule an epic good any moves on from epic its argument that's the players that that you're talking about those that the depth guys but those guys that -- after those guys have never will the guys you mention. -- -- Pink OT. Irked when Moreland. Those guys were never considered to be top thirty or top forty players understood it but it said you said fifty guys outside of the quarterback Brett. So there are filtered into the roster I don't you're talking -- -- -- -- but I talk about all I'm talking about. That the -- hear arguments in Chandler Jones. Devin -- forty. Rob Ninkovich Logan Mankins. Win when he's healthy and Sebastian Vollmer. Nate soldier I forgot my I don't greatly when all of them with a player since there again but I'm giving you names. Not quarterback names that are that are pretty damn good -- they've lost the whole bunch of players at that level and replace them with jags and they've been just fine. And they lost mail they lose Wilfork they -- they lost the right tackle the loss fatigue they lost Tommy Kelly and the continue to soldier on the just fine. You're right you can't replace every one of them with a badly player they give Belichick Brady's go ahead go get them aren't that deep or as as a -- it come on and been fine. It wasn't even part of their depth he's come on and -- a perfectly productive nose tackle on -- okay. He's got good and well this is what they -- good enough there they're winning games so. Maybe you're not paying attention to forward and have nothing to view none of us were not paying attention to some of the flaws that these guys out because. They want that's my -- -- they have got Brady but they went well but it's not just Tom Brady mostly robbery on -- mostly at quarterback the head coach. Some of those guys looking economic terrible he can't fill it with a GB roster from some college and hope that you're gonna get an NFL players but do you need to have the best NFL players all over just to make sure you've got the quarterback in the coaching everything -- -- eligibility thing Bill Belichick as modest. I don't I'm not a word I've used his. I know whatever and no one ever calls a modest right now. About disingenuous accused this engine depends who's talking to our when he says. It's all about the players. You believe I'm not really you don't not entirely okay I'm apparently. I mean yeah I mean the players obviously the one to go out and do wood on the field. But you know me I mean to the players are usually the last group of people look at a look at the GM a look at the coach the players -- product of either who went who was chosen. To play here or who was coached on how they were coach I think -- -- they got I think he has chosen pretty good player he has I'm not doubting that but. A lot of that is because he's the one who chose the players -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Tony. Like I am so disappointed that you keep -- you're you're actually arguing. That the running back. Position -- not overeat at. -- -- -- -- -- with with how -- you look great running back and it doesn't. It's a penalty at the articulate -- running backs that agreement -- team go from how are creating more. Because there are delighted that could you agree that I don't. Well I don't know we're talking about what it was great on one team and and was bad somewhere else. Are your -- great running backs they. -- if you are great running backs are usually pretty damn good lesser done if you forget Emmett Smith -- he was done said he's sort of retired and went to Arizona. Yeah but or who always -- get the -- see a Priest Holmes who was not negative anywhere to Kansas City was great. -- -- well -- really don't know it turns -- it didn't matter who you kidding wasn't we don't all -- I didn't matter who you put the ball and they just gave you one he gave you like 11 guy who was great a great running back somewhere. In one place in the and his a non factors and -- you mention Marshawn Lynch another mediocre running back in buffalo wasn't rate since he's been -- -- -- wasn't that currency was not that. Those guys you ask US to anybody on and the Patriots defense. Who they they were happy it's a year ago they had so much respect for and the guy runs party's top to bring down play the bat they've. But good -- back. -- Marshawn Lynch again -- outlook Kurtz good running back in a bad team and if you. But it's not that it's not that -- to -- why they about the they have poor and their bad you know what they -- bad teams that don't have it it's buffalo. And and Evan had a quarterback -- had just awful low it's not just okay. They were bad because Marshawn Lynch was there are no I don't think they were bad because of that but the fact Heidi good running back. Wasn't enough to make them good you don't like -- don't -- organization might. If not the position doesn't matter to battle -- had Marshawn Lynch for a year they weren't that good the next year they got Russell Wilson a real quarterback and they were good. I did that's the difference maker quarter of running backs are going to I saw that I saw Marshawn Lynch. Run over the world. At one of the most scintillating rounds ever seen Greg play Russell Wilson was in college yeah it happened one play. Seattle was seven and nine and won a playoff game right there what a playoff game they did it against Norman one game at. That. You know march we're headed to Jena seven -- -- but don't tell me that he he was discovered. That that Russell Wilson was some explorer who discovered. Marshawn Lynch don't think that Marshawn Lynch it has been a good running back since since been dropped from -- now. Given that I'm I'm I'm legitimize -- On Marshawn Lynch or anywhere hail the position I don't like the position isn't all that report are we gonna talk some more Indianapolis Colts football. Figured exactly what this team is it's coming here to Foxborough on -- on Saturday afternoon. Bob Kravitz who is in the writing he he is the ultimate writer from indeed he is the name that everybody would go to from Indianapolis he will join us next get his take on what's going on -- soccer ball W the.