Nov 2, 2013|
Chris Villani discuss the obvious question around town if David Ortiz will get the votes to be in the baseball hall of fame. His regular season numbers alone are boarder line but his playoff clutch performances are out of this world.
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He's the only guy who won three times you're the only player the only player to win three times with a Red Sox here in this great -- that's very special. As this present them in and getting -- Depreciation and knowing that guy you know everything I've been a while and we cinemanow. David Ortiz would -- is take away on their Chris -- with Yale. WEEI Saturday night wearing it out still continuing to celebration after the parade this morning in a World Series championship for the Red Sox they Clayton six. Against the St. Louis Cardinals 6177797937. The AT&T text minus 37937. On Twitter and Chris Gilani 44 British -- teacher it's printed up like Brad preside over the top. I'm Brad close partner against oil sand now it's -- a lot of 44 T shirts. Into the WEEI marketing budget I'm sure they'll definitely pay a question. Maybe I don't wanna get paid for a few weeks -- -- -- a choice to get to salary or the T shirts those are your options and sure that's what they would give me. But it's those -- the ways you can get involved in Libya and wanted to question that I was I was asking a Twitter and some people were weighing in. Earlier today and it's one that's been bandied about a lot over the last couple days and what happens. -- when you see. Guys are really good players are great players have great moments in new towards the end their careers Ortiz just said there is getting old but in baseball terminology at least. You start to think of things and historical context and have seen a lot of columns and articles on both sides of the equation. Asking whether David Ortiz is a hall of fame and the problem with Ortiz is you have two things that stand in the way. All of even discussing. Whether his accomplishments. -- induction Cooperstown. Because he's not Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens where but for the PD connection it is it's an opening checked he's there all time greats hall of famers Ortiz is borderline. His numbers are right on the cusp. He might get to 500 home runs needs 69 worse I'd call that he's got a chance. Outside chance perhaps to get the 500 home runs he's got to get the 3000 hits in his career so those accumulating numbers might fall just short of what we see is typical. All of -- benchmarks particularly in an era of -- -- -- in an era where. Those numbers are skewed a little bit may be like throwing for 4000 yards in football doesn't mean quite as much as what used cute and 1520 years ago. About balls may be just a little bit short his post season accomplishments to -- put him over the top. And some even members of the -- already association of America seemed to be under the impression that the playoffs don't count. In -- got to go based upon regular season numbers which to me is ridiculous I mean the playoffs can't be everything. He can't call Robert orient NBA town hall favor necessarily just because he was on seven championship teams he can't put Don -- in Cooperstown simply because he pitched a perfect game and in the World Series for the Yankees. Well when you have a guy. Who is a great player in his generation. Where you can make a hall of being case in all of baseball reference dot com most similar hitters David Ortiz UC hall of famers DC Willie -- see Willy star Joseph. You see guys like frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell that are going to be. So huge right there on the cost. What he's done in the post season not only winning three championships but. The highest batting average on base and slugging percentage. In baseball history in the World Series and those -- numbers that you accumulate -- lap at some of the accumulating numbers in the playoffs now. You say OK so and -- got the most post season hits. Wells allowed different when you only have the World Series fifty years ago play and I you have multiple rounds of playoffs you can accumulate. More hits them -- RBI opportunities home run etc. those are accumulating numbers. That's a minimum number plate appearances. How well -- hit and he's been better than anybody. That puts him over the top in my mind it puts in Cooperstown I know it's easier beyond that side of the argument today that it might have been a year ago. But I think if even if he was borderline going into this this post season this fall. This year in his post season puts him over the top in my mind he's a hall of fame attitude things we get in the way of even getting to that point oh. And discussing his numbers and whether he merits induction. One is the PD connection in 2003. And I'll give you quick bumper sticker opinion on that I'd put a mall and I honestly would. Part of the story of the game and that's an argument that's going to be had lashed out but I'd put all the PD guys and what I mean. And Emeka and make a notation they tested positive beat up part of the abduction put on the plaque whenever I put the ball. I would actually put the ball in Ortiz connection isn't as strong. As some of the others use on that listed 2003. It was recently is a -- it was at a before your during the year. You talk to rob Bradford but still trying to figure out what -- tested positive for it was that you were so that's obstacle number one obstacle number two which makes less sense to me. The fact that he's a designated hitter. -- You can not like DH I know there are those Steve Buckley is one album on a lot of old time baseball fans whenever disguise that thinking younger guys think it'll time old school mentality. They hate the designated hitter. That's fine. -- hate all you want and love the National League in the double switch in pitchers we can't get bought the infield that's how you want to roll roll that way. What you can't not acknowledge the fact that the designated hitter exists and has for forty years. It's part of the American League it's part of baseball it's eight position not on the appeal but in the lineup it's been a pretty important. So you can't use that it's like saying -- yup punter can't get into the hall of fame football which by the way hasn't happened a -- punter getting it all fame. In the same way that a true DH org that is predominately DH hasn't gotten in the baseball paint Pall mall orders the closest. Tiger Martina is still isn't it. So that argument just doesn't hold water from me. That's said it's still borderline case on -- numbers but I think Ortiz a hall of Famer at the post season numbers that just today unity and play at a game. He decided on -- of retiring. He's a hall favor today. And the borderline regular season case it's a borderline hall blames the lack of a career. But the post season accomplishments. The numbers the big hits the big moment you can't tell the story baseball last fifteen years that David which -- And that in and of itself deserving of induction in Cooperstown 6177797937. Let's go to CJ in Connecticut next on WEEI -- eject. Hey good evening Howard Green or you. That. It triggered a caller regarding that's creating that yet pending created yes you most notably. On -- so on the market now. He did have a career. Career -- batting average. That -- rendered down. If I still feel it game calling in the play it's questionable. And it's just. My church is more agreeable catcher out there. Now I. -- do not reside in. And I know -- prime candidates and it -- yup and it and it appears -- thirty. He's got a good bat well respected around it spoke. I'm assuming that injury concerns but you're you're looking at a situation where chief financial or find -- deal -- Ortiz maybe for another year. Particularly years -- can happen. Mixed in with -- For next -- and then they're. And two years remaining -- -- -- kind of mix and then catching. And you itching and no other -- have good organizational depth in or at catcher would that scared. I'm wired are in. And Denny Doherty says he later -- for people. Aren't -- and yeah I forgot about it and -- the odd man out. -- -- You know that that would be where you can go and could still like out very won't be back I would make Napoli definitely high priority assignment. Thank you very much connect. -- appreciate the -- call thank you CJ a couple things on that. With Brian McCann -- you can get him and what's the number that's the thing and you look at the catching market you don't get tired out there. And you don't see a lot on not on the catching market Dioner Navarro -- thirty. You know AJ Pierzynski is freeagent this year Saltalamacchia 29. I -- shop exit freeagent -- tackle frank Kelly Shoppach but it there's not a ton member Taylor tea garden. When the Red Sox are trying to treat for in the budget times. I he's a free agent this -- there's guys out there Brian McCann is probably the cream of the crop these multiple teams looking for catching help that in of itself. Is gonna drive up the price so how are you willing to go for -- can't. As I said -- in a vacuum I'm very comfortable moving on from Jarrod Saltalamacchia. It's not a knock a we did this year it's just. Practical purposes looking ahead saying what is it is he got to -- -- can't afford to lose on the balls and -- category. But the question Red Sox -- the answer in the offseason is there a better external option. And he -- yet. Either of you know -- way. Any of the other guys miss we -- -- other guys were ready Major League ready. To catch at least half the year get a lot of experience in the major leagues next season it's Alexander Bogart's and will little Brooks. We look at those guys NC at their ready play every day. So my question to -- he says our dearest Saltalamacchia okay. What's your option and it's Brian McCann a five -- that. I think he's gonna be number teams that look for catching help and Brian cans are the best game out there on the market right now. 6177797937. Let's go to Kevin in Brockton next on WE EIB Kevin. There is -- great. What a great they have it's it's as well let's go to break. Which I could have done -- the other line. Like on the -- The greatest immediate hit streak. You know grandma and even 67 I remember my -- supreme. And -- -- to a vote. In to get emea and -- the during the two. Migrated. -- I then in not. -- -- -- And in the hall fame yeah. The two of the two biggest issues he's gonna run into. Number one as the fact he's designated hitter and I don't agree that -- what cities but number one about his -- That whoever. Definitely he had his -- he played. Yeah but don't go to the vast majority of his games in the major leagues it's like an eight to one ratio gains as the DH relative to games the first basements so. But that's gonna be an argument that people make and then the PD connection. And that's before you began to debating his numbers so. I don't know I think it may be less likely than more than Ortiz ends up in Cooperstown. But for me yeah I absolutely think he's there and that's that's it as a Red Sox -- that's is speaking as somebody kind of look at the numbers in the body work in the accomplishments. Well according to -- good team together and look at them what he didn't need at some plays and sent them -- let -- -- You know yeah yeah the other dugout Ningxia. You know it's is it's been great and without -- yeah -- yet know. Without them I don't think we would've got -- Others no doubt I mean you don't you don't get to the post season much less one World Series that David Ortiz and thanks for the call -- the problem is. When you're talking about a hall of fame. I candidacy. Five years go by before you're even eligible you've got writers that are voting from all over the country not just in Boston. And that part of it can -- lost. -- that element can get lost the the intangible element because guys just take a look at the numbers. Most people most the most writers. Don't see David Ortiz play every single day they cover their team they see David Ortiz when he happens to be in Detroit playing the tigers they write in Detroit -- Out west in Oakland play any gays if they write for a Bay Area newspaper. And that's one of the flies in general the hall of fame voting which is an entirely separate argument altogether by. That element to -- batters. But it gets lost to understand -- gets -- you know I can't speak to you. I wish it was much authority the clubhouse impact of any other leader yet Adam Longoria might haven't camp or -- for example you hear stories. I you hear anecdotes he -- things like David Ortiz ended this speech in the dugout game war or even as some of the text is pointed out what their favorite moments of the summer. This is our belief in city immediately following the the tragedy the marathon and issued on Somerville that -- game. Back on April 20 in Boston and Fenway Park so we see that every day when it comes to his candidacy the hall of fame that'll get lost. That won't be a part of the discussion in part because some time some space goes by between whenever his last game is and when people are actually able to vote. -- part because you've got a lot of people are gonna vote on him. The didn't cover him on a day to day basis -- -- play on a day to day basis where they could really get a sense of what he's meant to that team. Beyond the box scores and beyond the numbers is David Ortiz a hall of -- 617779. 7937. Text like 37937. On Twitter. Chris -- 44 we get to that less power rankings championships just 'cause it's on right. It's more fun -- the power ranking championships. Will do that coming up just bid as well crystal light with the till 10 o'clock exports are UWB. Yak. And then. The great Britain's leader everything goes where our ire of our -- Our. Or extra dollar check -- out. A -- result there are not the third World Series and out for -- -- because they understand anything -- predict or. That's Dustin Pedroia talking about David Ortiz that was from salt and -- earlier this week Chris Maloney were -- -- Saturday night's 6177797937. The text like 37937. You look around a lot of the articles national publications solid hard ball socket as side in. A lot of folks asking the question about David Ortiz and whether lines in Cooperstown I think he does -- -- you and text line agree and I do understand. Sample bias with a question like this asking you know WEEI. In Boston. You know days afterward TC it's 688 the world securities and again. And I ask this question on WFAN right now I got Bobby from Hoboken and Billy from the Bronx and Eddie from Manhattan. They probably are very different take on the whole matter what do you agree I text or from the five -- poppies a hall of Famer and it never have been paid twenty million a year. The the American pastime been rooted in by the jumbled contracts. And -- detector from New Hampshire of course big poppy goes in the mr. clutch in the playoffs. No doubt that that he goes in another text he -- Ortiz plays a decent first base. He does but it. He's going to be and deservedly so remembered as designated hitter and it's only about 200 and some odd games he sleepers ate it got terrible and. The interesting part of that. -- -- in this why the DH arguments doesn't make any sense that -- from Canada -- points at around for forty years. And Tito Ortiz the best the age of all I'm not allowed to get him into the hall of fame. The DH -- let's say David Ortiz DH didn't exist in David Ortiz played. First base and played an average or slightly below average wins above replacement below average were defensive player first base. In the minds of many in the baseball writers association of America and the minds of many. Just baseball fans we don't like the fact that it that it DH in the hall of fame that would make you more worthy to get it to Cooperstown how does that logic cold water. It'd be just played first base. Even if he was average or below average act it's indeed everything else that he cannot sensibly. That would make it more palatable. Bred to be a hall paver that makes no sense you can hate the fact the DH exist that's cool. I personally disagree I -- the DH I wish everybody out of its National League get. That can be your opinion that's fine. You still have to acknowledge that it exists. It's still a thing it's still out there. And Ortiz was the best that. And a game changing player. For this team for his organization especially in policies that 6177797937. Mary in milk next on WEEI he -- I -- I. I -- -- and it repeat what you just said. But you know Red Sox in baseball and Michael's life which is. -- -- -- -- -- Whether or not elected he did say. I would say -- regulate it like it was that the heat but it became more exciting you know -- hitting. The thirteenth and basically get behind that position. And he would -- that should not only something that it makes the game -- until watched. It would argue that. But. Then as needed a petition that as. You know. Major impact on. These. On the Red Sox like industry. So I I you know again you know it is the position people -- -- the hall of fame voters have to accept the -- is position and what do -- PH as as. Defined position but -- -- Yeah any Edgar Martinez was kind of the first one. But Ortiz has surpassed him in many of the numbers most of the numbers -- Martinez never read a post season track record that David Ortiz had and that's part of it the story for him. I mean merry when you think of David Ortiz with the red side you've got a Red Sox fan. The first things to come to minor Ortiz 20141007. And then this year in the playoffs and in the World Series. Right and and that's really all recently he's he's got to -- -- of course the first baseman but he he has made his entire. Com impact at the age and and the three world championships that I IE XP I -- at a map and you'll be in the world. In the am called game. I hope that he will be married thanks to the phone call. I go back and forth on I said before and I think it's a little bit less likely than more I say that right now and our attitudes can change. When you look at everything that it's against him before you get to the numbers. Before you get to just debating on his on his merits of the hall of Famer. DH argument works against him in the minds of some I personally disagree the PD. Connection even though it's not nearly the the connection that some others have -- deceit of voting track records -- I mean -- Jeff Bagwell. There is a segment of voters who didn't vote for Jeff -- somebody reporter once he had back there -- at ease. Ease -- using -- in -- hall -- I mean. Sometimes the writers make these ridiculous. Leaps these assumptions and Ortiz it's a little bit more than than an assumption that said. Is Steve still don't know what he tested positive for he doesn't know he's trying to find out this year but that's working against him. I think also working against -- segment of voters who feel like the post season doesn't matter. Like the playoffs shouldn't be part of a player's story because not everybody has the opportunity to play. In the playoffs or play as much as David Ortiz in -- -- great player are really good player. It's a borderline hall of Famer they didn't have the opportunity to play in the World Series and enhance your legacy in cancer numbers were David Ortiz did. My response that is sorry. You know enhances different plant in Kansas City your Minnesota RC I don't know what to tell you are. A tough break. That's just the way it is that you can't hold it against David Ortiz but he played on great teams and that he was great when the stage -- it was at its most to me to exclude or. Not take into account post season. I'd post season numbers is ludicrous to me. I -- -- for Maine I love this this is great and I can't do it justice any light peak gust and somebody with a really deep. Awesome voice to read this but he says Major League Baseball created the position Ortiz has redefined it. I like that put -- a bumper sticker I he's the greatest DH ever got opened the doors of the hall -- he's playing by MLB's role that's a good point. Is -- David Ortiz invented designated hitters. They existed before he was born around for 41 years. And he's playing by those rules penalize imports ridiculous let's go to Richard in the car next on WB yeah I hear Richard. Sacred or that it didn't call no problem. They get court appoint you talked about the sports writers of America. The fact what the -- country in not in Boston. So they might be less likely to be aware airport cute body of war and less likely to vote for him. I just wanna say that you know Q and the most prolific postseason hitter. Expand just so public that he -- the most prolific. Post season hitter and that it would make more of the sport's greatest around the country very aware of not only at statistics and post people post season. Ortiz meant the Red Sox and he's been here. Yes I guess Richard what I meant by that was more the intangible aspect of it because somebody brought up you know he's speech in the in the dugout which -- we saw that speech remember it. But the deal leadership aspect of David Ortiz is something that remember your voting five years after the last game that he plays. With a lot of guys didn't see him play every day I think there's more wrinkle and -- and for hall of fame voters to go by the numbers. Rather than some of the intangibles. You know I mean. I do but of course I think that he's just so prolific and the policy than that even five years doctor. It Arctic while someone to let the numbers that he is shown in the postseason. You know that batting averages just outstanding you know the fact that you know he's been a -- -- time. That even by the doctor got to beat out that -- took those numbers. Why I think he'll still be at the forefront of many of the sports -- mind when it comes to that well. I hope your right Richard based upon some of the voting a trend that I've seen I don't know what's going through some of these -- minds when they cast their ballot I'll be perfectly honest we get I hope -- right. I -- right that it deserves to the end. Appreciate you making -- Richard thank -- 61777979837. More your calls and text on Ortiz in the hall of fame and up next. And to give you my personal championship power rankings if you -- Cleveland sports banned. You're probably best served to listen to something else does does gonna make you really really feel bad about yourself. Eight idle since 2001. Where does 2013 ranked TU I'll tell you where it ranks to me next crystallize your Sports Radio WEEI.