Aug 27, 2014|
With Logan Mankins shipped off to Tampa, and sophmore TE Tim Wright on his way to Foxboro, MFB discuss the possible leadership void and depth issues on the offensive line. Also, how does this trade compare to Belichick's release of Lawyer Milloy in 2003.
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Should any guard should be getting this much coverage for anything. I don't. Say. Great teammate fantastic to have a locker room global perennial player -- -- patriots but should any guard beginning this much attention locally or nationally. Removing teams in Logan Mankins. -- I know. And frankly no -- should have been making as much money as you and me. Well because they make me. You looking round -- guard that much money and sit back and capitalism Stan. It. I think you can replace guards a little bit more -- guards. Running backs I don't supply acres. I don't know anybody Arnold and I -- -- -- openers if you want to think about that. Like maybe twelve -- one years -- at Matt at the tax. Via everything in and out with you laugh and when he gets treated when -- When they signed on the rates -- wood left gardens prime. Right I mean you're talking about Pro Bowl left guard and you know he Matt Light elect him to break this thing up like a -- bring to protect his blind side. And as we all Null you know you dished out the money do whatever could not get him back on the field with the idea that may be to fugitives to be renegotiate -- this NFL. Was like -- to sign that they in this for the campaigns of Republican renegotiate this thing. A few years later. I still think he's a very good guard mean pro football focus -- what they're looking at the big items the Yankees. Looking out of -- through. Look I don't want it look at a guy at a high school. -- know is right now is not the Logan Mankins that he was you know 56 years ago -- it was five years ago or lives ago right. He's not. We still good football player. Okay this is why I -- time now to marinate on this call on this deal. I don't understand. The timing I give he's making too much money for guard I get the salary cap next you're free of some stuff -- for Darrelle Revis but for this year particular. You say five point seven. For -- I get it do you -- -- right there to space and bringing in this kind of she spent in a kind of money a they're gonna spend this money. Did you really just not wanna pay of six and a quarter six point 25 million is that what you wanna pay the man his salary I. So you on Comcast gain of that argument last night I can't see how a team that was just rated as what the second most valuable NFL franchise. Would back off paying -- locker room -- starter along the offensive line. And respected member of that locker room in a year where they're supposed to be no worse in the second best team in the AFC for purely cash reasons. I can't see that being the case and I agree with you Lou as well in the sense that cap wise it doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense that they would have to make this move. At this time the timing is critical but let me try to explain here from the way -- what can -- Is it at all possible. That they brought Logan Mankins back knowing his play had slipped last year seeing that he had given up. One quarter of the sacks that Tom Brady absorbed last season. And thought to themselves. Let's see if he's found a sip from the fountain of youth during the off season and perhaps more importantly. Let's give three games -- to these other guards who might take up the last starting spot of the offensive line. To see if they've progressed and off. That it makes it worthwhile to let him go and not have to pay him because those guys are just as good as him. That's the only timing issue that I can look at and -- well that makes sense -- they had three pre season games to look at the rest regards to make that determination. Yet so when I look at it you can almost. You wish you could you should've seen this coming this chassis itself the coming -- they were -- well Mike resent that project roster really. -- was the guy cadets the surprise guy surprised guy because you know it's always somebody that you're not -- it's it's always somebody we go I would never do this. Get rid of this guy and it always and -- -- with -- pitch -- that you get to step on the -- to write your -- like. So Mankins. Should see the writing on the law. Bryan stork -- award winner Florida State. John how appeal fla day captain. -- captain. Never -- Islamic stamp for what we saw the writing me so that there -- guys that six guys who can play guard yes Casey then. -- -- -- -- Playing. Every single starting for Logan Mankins in the first game taking not once reps in the -- game starting again in the third game. You have you have this competition. Between Ryan went delegate column I feel like. It's treatment. Magicians gives you guys -- like you know doing that caught my yeah my stats it's like. Don't pay attention to all the stuff will be here like they want to pay attention to the Ryan went down -- -- these guys don't these guys are fighting Jordan you'll really. It's somebody you're not even thinking about -- kind of money and that's Logan Mankins is. They are thinking about this prolonged period of time. And it's it's you know a -- to quote. Bill Belichick it's rather do it early and late you rather be early Bentley and that's the mentality in it's he's done he's -- -- decisions. Roster -- as we look at it window with a nickel our look at it sarcastically. Yeah and these guys are in trouble. Because the jets only offensive linemen and look at look at Americans now again -- topic that he is what he once was. OK in your Douglas the most pro football focus -- how many sacks did he give up I saw anywhere between 9/11 were pinned on him last year. And that's what I mean define -- on on Logan Mankins. Bag I guarantee that if like offensive line coach Dante Scarnecchia was sitting there saying if there was a sack given up a game against Tom Brady. And I say who's to blame pizza you know -- a look at the film can be one of five guys. Right because they worked as a unit or six to be thrown -- -- -- tight ends and running a race car young -- and they also older -- out from the house and senate as -- -- -- what what called the court exactly the senate back is that senators left directed different -- different right guards Nate -- still a young player. He gets burned on the inside you know it and -- and they're kind of protect him or help on this I don't Mickens. How do you judge. An offensive line who gave up the sack now I think that -- a tackle you can see. Right yeah yeah it's -- right by you and you just get at the quarterback in a manic I just destroyed -- or that guy just destroy its older. Every time you. You just look at saint nick is get destroyed. You know our UNC it's not only did it happen there's a couple. I'm Glasser lighten got a bad and I aren't so you bigger -- -- bad guys get paid to it and he's good. But we dropped some nuggets about -- ready for some electric presence. That. Persons that not a police acting out there pretty good football players. A baseball fans who love stats. -- Tom Brady was sacked forty times last season. That was the most he's been sacked since 2000 -- won his first season as a starter. Also sacked 48 title and Peter sellout 48 sacks in 2008 but rated player -- as Matt -- -- running all over the place so. There was an obvious emphasis. On. Dixie that offensive line and -- if you look at areas of concern. That was always -- that you're looking your -- but he Scarnecchia. You know off at the line coach have been there forever. You have a sitcom coach Scrooge it's a good note grew year Mo good day it's about closely -- he comes and. But first you for him go get a hold on to captain Dillon are a result of the house guy got to get to kind of -- I still consider even -- Ballmer okay. Decent tackles -- and establish three new rookies offensive line go get a. Yeah and you know really turned to -- it turns into a younger team well I you know you think about. And all the guys. Who did just the youth that's on the steam out you'll have a lot of guys are more than seven years and yet Brady Wilfork. And Djokovic us later. Because cal ski. Don't have a lot of guys out there with a lot of experience. Anymore Connelly I think is nine years other that you were pretty young team. Related to the guys I named -- there were our kickers -- specialist. I would have piggyback on something that. Bob knew Meyer said on Comcast last night. He found a sports nation poll on ESPN ago and I just dial it up here and it's shifted a little bit. Even more towards the middle but one it was last night when nearly brought it up on television. I'm gonna put out there and I want patriots fans to jump in on the poll. By calling 6177797987. World poll -- want to see how what. Find out people on one of these three categories and particularly to explain the last category. -- so category one is what you -- -- straight 48% say I hated. 35%. Say I like it. 37%. Say I don't get it. But Belichick did it so I think it's the right decision in bill we trust they don't always trust that ESPN poll -- and that's winning right now at 37%. And I wanna ask patriots fans argue in that category of I don't understand it. Bill did it -- I'm on board 617779793. Set up this quite honestly I get to the Belichick thing aside from his. Who cares this track record is who cares -- -- super bulls he's one what is what percentages I look at this from a coach the value waiting his own talent. You could have said this is the worst in the NFL the best team in NFL they took an old guard. Who had a down season last year and removed him for cheaper younger options at the position. They must think that they're backups are as close to him. As possible. Given the money differential to make it worthwhile to make his change I'm done trying to find the genius in the salary cap move. I'm done trying to figure out of the dollars are going to be shifted for Revis are for Brady I don't try to figure out why it was a stupid move. I think it's what idiots. The most obvious answer probably is the answer they don't think he's that much better than the other guys in front of them. And people don't want to admit that because they like Logan Mankins people don't wanna see that a lot because he's a locker room leader and a team guy in a tough guy. And that's all well and good but I think there's some validity to that third part of this poll. That Belichick has been watching the film Belichick evaluate what he was at the end of last season he saw these guys perform and he came to camp they said. Close up of guard let -- and go for a tight end. That they can put in it's an insurance policy to help the passing game he would use Logan Mankins to get him right. Do I think they would Jesus according to what Lovie Smith was saying about Tim Wright I don't think so -- like they're gonna cut up. It -- -- -- the young tight end I mean candidate like lies with the third tied ended through their kids the bock -- that chance that he was gonna make this team. I'm thinking it Logan make instinctive to. To get him right -- admittedly pick whatever might be. Do you play I agree I think it looked at Logan Mankins indicate the emotion out of it and they say you know what. He's not the same player he once was my question is is that and what is it then -- it just financial. Because -- not. Directly used in the money it's -- you don't need the money you know it's only hazardous and we got to get in the cap. We got to make some tough decisions right now candidates cap and we can save -- point seven million by cut Logan. It's not about the money. If people Sandefur you know it's got to sign Revis you can play this year out and then cut. Logan Mankins and not paying his salary and 667 million in the capital of five point seven this year the case that it does not Padilla Revis gonna do it anybody. So -- that can get that cap space next year than others to get your cash move once he had kept moving through and -- -- I don't want pay the guy six and a quarter. -- because -- -- Marcus cannon is just as good. Okay. Who's behind Marcus -- Is he as good as markets -- a debt yet -- -- saint X applaud Americans just daughter if any budding offensive line goes down which they will. Marcus king goes in the back up raised the fifth 66. -- -- Not care as a starter. Who's the back up now not give these peculiar depth a who have radio spent six point 25 and a guy you know that is good is that anymore. You replaced with what. It's just the cash mold. It's just to save money and -- needed the cash. Equal and yes I player acts we will see maybe they did it just say what they. Yesterday we heard about this trade initially the reaction felt like oh my god they got rid of Logan Mankins. And then here we are at 1020 today and only 28% of respondents I assume mainly -- New England Patriots fans is ESP imports and I had only 20% so barely over quarter. In essence three out of four people are saying they're on board with a trade either because they think it's a good move or hates Bill -- so we trust him. Either way only about a quarter people out there. Think that this is a bad move for the patriots so obviously opinions have shifted pretty dramatically. In that time frame of less than 24 hours after shock 6177797937. Asserted buys you a story if you kind of wanna know what how bill thinks. -- is a historian of the ball and teams -- championships. There's an episode I think it was either HBO football like for -- like that when he was down to Florida Keys hanging out Jimmie Johnson. And bill was grilling Jimmie Johnson about his days at Miami in his days in. In Dallas and basically say what went wrong there and basically what you would change. And the one thing Jimmie Johnson said is he what -- held onto his players as long as he did both older players those Logan Mankins types new one to help model. -- but he did he he he brought the emotion and do what he held on -- because he liked. I -- what I saw that it was and it was an instant. Indication. Of why bill does some of the things that he does. What to think he would love to keep Logan Mankins. But he knows that it's better to be early in a decision that is to be late. So if you keep your -- to lose point not sure about how well he's playing and you need to get rid of them while you should probably do it now if the opportunity arises. And it's not like they're just doing this you know. From the -- You know they they they drafted -- butts off at the -- interior offensive lineman. Eight and knowing that even if they took Cameron Jordan Cameron Flemmi who complete tackle that Marcus -- can play guard. Marcus can't -- left corner Reich are -- setter but he can. You know you -- -- five starts you're gonna have one or two rotational guy. Why I think that in bill we trust theory is because we've seen it before. You don't mean written -- Richard Seymour. You know you he'd go setting up with -- like beaten by an idiot -- team was so bad it was so beat up in a -- is Richard seem a really gonna. Make a break this team target the pick will report lawyer Malloy. You know we -- most of the ball so we've seen this before from at this this moves like this in the past you -- well I don't like the wolf. -- get that clear I don't I think it's in your that you're in the long quote I think it's I think it's just to save six point 25 million dollars. And I don't know what that the need is for that IQ why -- upset about them say allowing happy about that -- be upset that they gonna spent six point 25 and a player that. May -- is this do you wanna cut appropriate space readers next year the government did a year. Is it at all possible that they felt the need to get a tightly -- I guess they -- waited to get another tight end but they've got this guy for a sixth round pick I just I can't -- might bring it right the fact that the New England Patriots knocking on the door of another Super -- ball berth and no worse shape and being the second best team in the AFC. The second most valuable franchise in the National Football League. Would make a money move at this late stage it's gotta be because he's not that good anymore I don't know what it's both. It's both it's not every two years when you say he's not that good anymore. Actually -- -- works in the other options is at least well it's good I only slightly better they knew all of for a second okay because they probably look. At whoever they're gonna put in as the new number one a guard over the new starters gonna be of that group of guys that we've kicked around. In all likelihood. They're looking at that guys being better than Mankins now is not just that guys betters your senior also -- in the next guys to be better than Mankins I don't think about a mechanic. Well the next -- be able to play multiple positions. Next guy the sixth guy has to be able to play guard and tackle and I'm wondering do they not think that he can swing anymore and is that part of it. Because is not just losing your position one guys starter he's not personal not to play different positions because the 67 guys have to reversal. In a year ago thing was to me is. A year in transition. When you lost on this -- and -- you know you've -- -- captain you know you've got a guy that sets the tone you've got the attitude was not the same Larry was three years ago. It's gonna cost you six point 25 you got -- value chart you might be worth two point 75 mile or three million to play that he is right now so. The money's not worth the value right -- they wanna Cottam but I would sit there -- that it -- Is the six point 25 money your saving and the real salary that he could again. -- -- If it is imperative Bogut the dynamic if governor grant. If it's not get a one year. -- if you want next year many of all offseason to decide what you can do with the money. The gonna be saving the seven million sit on the cap hit the six point 25 and beat him again. -- the timing just -- -- when we come back. We don't have one form -- open Bonn west of you wanna get it now 6177797. A decrease of what you wanna talk about this and so the way things have changed over the last 24 hours in terms of public opinion but when we come back. Christian and I will both -- few examples. As to why this trade may turn out well for the patriots. Like well to the point of winning the Super Bowl well. They will mean we come back not threesome in the media. I've been very fortunate those catastrophic injuries. I've been looking at this deal with -- -- this entire time and place for a great head coach great organization and a lot of great teammates. And it's it's been it's been a fun ride and hopefully less a few more years. -- this -- MS being Logan Mankins from people. Of this year. Immensely Malone lakers before a Christian and I try to make we feel better about this Mankins situation okay. We both have examples you from your playing -- me from -- covering the team inside the locker room days. Our expert -- what specifically yes. What does an amount Faneca. Mean do you guys. Good player. Multi time -- RF are probably the best guard in the history of that team. He leaves in 2008. After the 2007 season goes the jets in 2008. The next guy in nowhere near as good as Alan Faneca was at left guard. And it hurt the Steelers so badly that they went on to win the super. And went back in 2010. And the -- -- this guy guard yes Chris Kemoeatu -- and -- at least initially Faneca was pretty good for the jets. So they downgraded the guard position substantially. But they still went to the Super Bowl twice out of three years and 11. And I look at this is a very similar situation Mankins in New England in panic in Pittsburgh I know what you were gonna reference the lawyer Malloy situation from your plane. Yeah I love me remember there is lower -- and -- also. Rodney Harrison though there was those two guys. Dallas my second year with the team and I remember sitting in the meeting room as bill walked in and basically gave the news. That lawyer wasn't on the team and we're now normally. If someone's cutter release the coach doesn't -- just that first thing in the morning always -- -- -- meetings you know you can team meeting it's funny when guys walked in. Everyone's kind of aware of who's not there. Because -- you -- rat and for being late. So you're looking at the digital clock and becomes 857858. Need to do not all who we gonna get. We gonna get consumers and locked the door being being being being -- we got one OK put money in the pot. -- lawyer wasn't in there bill come -- the bill comes in Lacey really know something's out of bills like 510 minutes late. And we're like OK so opens up becomes that -- just collectively. There was there was a sense of like there was yesterday like what that WTS. Room and he will WTF exclamation point was what it was feeling. I didn't have a you know this bloody release of a lawyer -- so I wasn't as I -- upset as some of the other guys or but I knew it was a big deal because he was a leader of that -- he was the captain of the defense. He was that he was the regulator right now -- Defense to set the ball they talking with -- eight who zooming you're off a disciple aegis and there are some guys are just flat out this I think Thomas pissed that you hurt. At one on one of the article in the globe and -- said that they used to he would like they couldn't write this. In the paper argued distancing. Missed I okay who's this app I think it was to Scotland and -- buddies. It's so it kind of floored everybody can that he realized he -- I can while would you -- this guy who helped you when the first Super Bowl. Was instrumental in that situation was a leader was -- any -- did -- take less money you know so they had to get rid of how they aligned the offensive line and hold on hold on I'll get it to your point out that if everybody remembers. We quoted when we do this terrible loss to buffalo. The case lower -- its first game against the patriots but we ended up winning the symbol for the stories. You know to the Steelers and patrons are very similar. Dweller knows after the buffalo blow -- was a 31 nothing now as bad. 34 nothing wanted to let us because we added up beating them the last embassies where there are nothing at all where their guys at that game soda lake. Still talking about lawyer Malloy and it -- it or they get the anger how they just like 31 nothing to be kid it was just like mentally with a just still Sydney saying. Now he really pitched his no orders to meet you and if you lose a player like this it was Mickens -- when the first 50 with. They lose opening data come out to a two it's like people start in on -- planes talking about Logan Mankins on the lawyer Malloy was it like that have to get blown out. He knows what was really weird. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- a lot of hugging everybody sit down talk with guys. Ever ever say this is really weird they should beat the odds before the game yeah yeah -- -- three outs for a game and geysers hanging around. He was just their four days ago. And sure enough I mean I thought mentally -- -- had a lot to do with why you lost me now Bill -- will you -- this block this guiding catch the ball. We made a bad call here Bradley got a lot to do it did you -- blocked in the -- actually give a sack to lawyer. My first sack of my career at a poker was was was off to him also this house is. Okay. Because I'll like -- -- they're OK in my my thing obsolete as the count is perfect it's a really -- to tackle -- -- -- or -- yard. Well other -- like it. This is not good so you forgot you're playing well and I -- for -- play but I definitely did it treated as serious as I should have treated now I was ever to sit out loud. In the pitcher's locker I would be in the principal's office in city right problem in a matter of seconds. But no so I think yeah I think definitely because we are -- wood to like I don't make the right choices. Is it the whole -- Jackson do we hate our. Coach did you guys I edited dogs they would do you heard some good -- Tom Jackson make those comments players that locker room hate their coach. There's some players had their say and it was they look at Mike whatever projects and shut up or they like gather up some place near right now are now -- -- with their coach. You know I think it was -- you know -- is not old enough yet to do this bluntly I've girls and my son and every now and -- you know I hate you dad. Argued that and it -- it it's over something silly and I know they don't mean it you know really don't hate me. But I think that was probably what Tom Jackson was referred yeah there are some guys that initially based on this the response -- everything they were just yeah a little bit too emotional. I hate you hate coast man. Like -- they really don't but at that -- If you yourself or other players it was maybe younger players. The reality check of the business to the NFL it when you lose lawyer Malloy -- right now at a match there's a lot of young players wells that's like Jerod Mayo. Right about going home -- sent -- like epic ghost like eleven exit through. You know to me like. I never thought don't happen Logan like a reality check everybody. Of the business of the league did you do with the people talk about that we should -- and he's I think I'm -- by might not be. Yes and that is that is what everybody it's funny when you think about. There we talk about it baseball you know -- before the trade deadline who was untouchable who would they not -- -- get rid of like is it Henry on that one we can't get rid of it's the same thing you have these guys were you when you when you wake of the minority and make it even talked about it. They will trade you as quickly as possible that it benefits that John gone from eastern here and editors seven W react. Our guys are college here toss them. Out and demonstrated. -- we act law ought to. Finance the object at the driving -- of that straight but that's it Logan -- Richard Seymour deep decline later. I don't regard that it would react -- trade I think -- -- the World Bank or. Yeah I think you're right here John and I think that this is a talent evaluation move I don't think you hate you shouldn't in my opinion are patriots and look at this movement -- yourself I hate -- -- Just based on line. The name Logan Mankins moving to Tampa Bay I think you have to give this a full season to evaluate the move to see if the guy's father aligned along the offensive line. Worked out if it works out better that it's a time of -- and valuation move that was for the good -- Belichick and company here in art. Yeah. Two I think we desperately -- -- -- end -- our third it it it worked out you get out of now. -- you -- got over it I think 240 out. It got art and athleticism that prime minister apparently and that and we start that I haven't looked at a lot at. You have in elegiac who's right about that and don't -- sixth round pick and got 20 yeah I think was right about that I think. You do need to trade Mankins to get this -- seeing as how Tampa was slowed down. On him and it's pretty traitor to anybody better since they looked at Richey and -- need on Alex Boone before. They came to New England. For Logan Mankins or maybe Belichick just happened to see yet. And said well maybe you'll just get pissed him right guy before it gets on the open market will make a trade here to get Logan's number off the books. And get him here as I thought that I was gonna get cut anyway based on the way Lovie Smith was talking about. Possibly brought in you know one of them all American -- in Washington. Barring -- this guy that was the best -- in college football. It's like why did they go -- today. -- -- We'll get a little bit later Mary a call from a car bomb -- -- united present WEEI. I don't -- There are real quick look -- backtracked on the -- at eight actor and yet he -- and he saw and I saw the trade happened exactly Adler. And -- get there. I gotta say -- I -- a little girl there are -- cap implications -- -- -- next year Britain this year at the role dollars. The lower power like strictly and aren't sure that they thought the right on the cap or little -- -- -- very. I sat in the seat colonel. Yeah it is at every hour epic this year which we ate it all this year there were at an earlier that they and here. Now open pit road and on Revis and and and if you're an issue because he created a contract -- -- and that's where he and the. All right if you played your plan this year and he cut at the end of the year you save seven million next year. And. -- -- Don't notice it yeah spreader overture here. What 000 yeah okay but demand saying you still saving. A good amount of money -- get Logan Mankins for a year. Or given grow even China money she got married that perhaps -- are about Mallory girl. It's based -- -- David it's going to be muggy and Brady in court to make. They knew that coming -- to camp they'll all that they knew coming camps so why not make the values that the reason they did this now -- -- aerial I would think his knowing all that information. They probably thought themselves we will make this movement we think the guys behind him have caught up to the point work talent wise were not to notice that much. Of it hit an. Again this is at least no worse -- the second best team in the American football conference right. You don't make moves cap wise broad dollar wise at this stage of the game you just don't do it for strictly money reasons. And let's have an immediate pressing need and they don't cap wise now they'll figure out next year's cap. Next year -- the cap is just. -- that they can figure that stuff out every team does mean again he got some guys I was just talking about me right now than that. -- the highest paid player and a team the B Jerod Mayo. You know we'll look at those numbers like that's got to be restructured -- Munich and they can free up the cap space. Okay. It is believe that they can I don't believe in the cap stuff. Getting to figure this thing -- caps gonna go up another ten million dollars next year but he -- cut Logan Mankins did a year he could save seven million next year. At the cap is going on give me the caps off. The bottom line is he just they cut this Jackson -- wanna pay six point 25 with a guy behind him was good enough and needed a tight and I understand that. But now we're talking about depth and offensive line with the new offensive coach he took the leader off of their. They still gonna go to -- For thirteen at three yes eleven of five yes. -- -- I think it's it really affect them. Probably not but -- just a public at this deal out of -- played -- -- -- -- border lights out. A lot of people are comparing what Darrelle Revis will make. Compared to the checks that Patrick Peterson is cashing in Arizona we brought previous his name a couple times I don't think it's a very good comparison. After what I read yesterday. I'll tell you what I mean next 937 WEEI. It's very clear. They're season could. Depending on how could. The devastation they suffer because of lawyer the lawyer.