Aug 17, 2014|
Butch and Buck discuss the careers of Pedro and Roger and who they think was the better pitcher, both in a Red Sox uniform and overall.
Transcript - will not be 100% accurate
You know it's like Matt and I are on the same page we didn't plan this at all but I said. That -- -- rose at a money -- for that trending now with the noticed -- not not on purpose but by accident so there it is money. To start off the show -- don't block -- all kinds of stuff and -- it tax free weekend yet wet yet the year. I haven't heard he would do a year since it's ID you know is still -- 29003. I I agree I was driving down the pike and one in the way Euro was that latitude and the only guy I agree with you that I had more information than was necessary. But it's like -- -- numbers kind of stats guy when it comes to baseball unlike you guys who make their living around covering the Red Sox earlier -- I don't read the game notes all the time so I get up early this morning over the game notes and I found some pretty interesting Stan -- Austin game winnings hitting streak like Daniel and his numbers I was noted in trending now right so I finally you also editorialized. When you give information yet here in the standings if you really care about that I -- our. Last week. You said I don't regularly at the end it's -- are you doing this morning -- -- -- it and and re doing -- got a well a little over a week to the old time baseball -- -- financial management old time baseball is a week from terrorize him by the way we -- Subtle thing I showed you that Jesse -- does a program that -- -- -- I have -- at UN. Pictures -- that was well he came up with that in fairness thing Q but it's from the doctors -- memorial fund which are really appreciative. I know I know -- it's from me we have a picture -- so it's I appreciate you -- you buck I say that at all people who support our. Foundations by the way. Perfect -- -- that we have two other. Events -- to talk about today during the shall get to vote later won for multiples grosses in two different ways to think about that some very meaningful to. My -- in my sister has -- and she's been involved in the walk for years and coming up election about how you can step up and support and Troy Brown's gonna join us. At 11 o'clock to talk football but also he's going to be part of an event for the Bill Belichick foundation on Wednesday night. The Boston Harbor hotel. On that and have a three greatest right the black. And have a hotel they're gonna have a three -- discussion with that Teddy Bruschi. Bill Belichick and Troy brown and called appropriately the hall of fame -- -- much or. He's probably in all things. -- was you know. Thinks. It's a good question mile Astrid ground there really. That there is -- -- -- -- and 11 o'clock is -- -- -- skakel. Lebanon and small college at. 1 o'clock Troy Brown will join speaking of hall of fame buck let's start where here at Fenway. The red sex as I mentioned have forty games left in the season at least nineteen -- At 135 game -- Hall of fame sort of was the theme all weeklong. Om heard you on this week read stories about your. Julia takes is always about Clemens and Pedro Nomar. Joke stated that night and about all of -- start with this question it's very. Simple question and give it to you with the final question yeah I think it's a player. Who is the greatest Red Sox pitcher of all time and why. Total -- legal right ones. -- -- -- stop OK you did just the other day and it angered Munich re thinking about it I don't need you to qualify. I want an answer to this and -- at all. He said each edit qualifying. I'll answer the started to qualify so it's the question first and then explain who's the great let me answer. Question now -- -- is rated at Red Sox pitcher of all -- Right after one period. Now I would love to hear what you have to say thirty means the end now -- lefty who would you say why. That was the second part of the question. Based on total numbers Cy Young awards when he went seasons innings pitched strikeouts to walk through twenty strikeout games. Please understand before -- continue it in no way. Apps away might denigrating disrespecting Pedro Martinez we are in point of fact talking about two iconic pictures to the best pitches and history to gain. Now if you wanna move beyond that personalities. And quarks and that'd. Either -- -- do this and -- in them meandering here but here with me. That the -- aren't you demanding the Red Sox have this talent for reinventing history and as you've heard me say many times they brought me out and throw out the first page and all the reporters into scripts instead asked me any funny questions about going in that -- like that. And don't ask about what in Jack McCormick to ask about quitting on the team. So so there's a lot of bad with -- at that moment -- -- want it out they both laughed they all basically. It was a bad -- now they come back and say they've laid a lot porridge about I'll always love to hear stuff like that but. That those effects right to want it out and let no one out forcefully his own managers said in the quote I think -- Mars is Tito Francona. His own manager said I think Nomar with Boston out. Which to me was the perfect -- at the way numerous years in Boston and heard you talk to -- when Michael game but that Michael said as was Francona. Yes he was absolutely right now as I said. As in Cleveland about a month and a half ago the Sox. In during the pregame session I said the Cleveland writers just elicited teal tie -- Cleveland. And somebody's tape -- started the play when it was so you recording moments taboo when he -- and you know you have now and that's. And you would give you the evil stare and as soon as I saw them you ego. And -- just so it looks like I suppose our sound awful old -- but why wait a minute timeout. I did that you know -- You know so. So let's not let's not go with the fiction here but I don't depiction of how everything was sunshine lollipops and Roger and but that's that's the bad of Roger. The total picture is that it in the years. Inning and a a because you asked me my opinion. In the years I've been covering baseball writing a book based on Morton for the paper and other media outlets that there were only a few guys that. I would set my watch him. One was Roger and he's doing right he was -- -- -- One was Pedro certainly for a few years it was Curt Schilling. And it really stand -- and I always had this in the new grooming routine. Louis what yet but I'm I'm going back to -- and you know he he's watched the news ended as my -- is beginning. Because last year was 789. And I started seven it took yet at the -- yes I would agree that. Beckett I never real because it was not up instantly watch it was a burst that came out of nowhere. Decorate seasonal seven you know instantly watch it definitely chilling idea because Schilling talked a lot of smack in a good one. You back it up that's a good one Schilling when did -- try -- because team into the 2004 season. Basically announcing. That he was here to win the World Series and -- -- nobody says that. It's was immediately aero Whitaker border through it we don't know about it that this is the guys at all I know all about it. I know that this team has won a World Series 1918 you couldn't say 1918. Previous secret Communist. I've been a debt for for that reason -- whenever shelling was borderline in the discussion of guys you had to check the schedule -- when they were pitching I will say he was Pedro. Roger or even Louis team on like yet for a lot of reasons one you just brought up showing was a set -- watch type of guy while dealing with -- -- Governor we wasn't as is set your watch at least for me is a Red Sox fan growing up you know when -- was pitching I needed to know. They had a four game series and it was him going against NAFTA and active Stewart that was climbs in going out by the blue. Or somebody like that that was in my. Gonna say that the people always say they were at this game of that game I was at the the Tia -- 75 that September track which was a big deal is also at Siebert -- 71. But -- meander. -- answer your question right it is much as. I felt today. I was more entertained. By Pedro both because that would get on the mound and and then musings. When people say who's the most fascinating interest and I recovered. I always into this way on the don't ask me that asked me who the second most interesting guy and I would echo that sentiment because that is really no. It's it's it's acclamation. It well it's it's a it's it's not you got me thinking and the two characters on the Boston sports and to -- that quote heed your words fascinating. And interest and -- -- we're page on Bill Parcells. If you -- the Bill Parcells press conference you felt like you mess up -- but but did this necklace in the discussion of who's number two. Look guys Aso -- that Pedro is just. Believe the greatest quote in the history of Boston sports it's wake up the DM bambino and it followed by step and in my clubhouse I -- shoot you. Not just because it was funny not just because it was unexpected but because it wrapped. Up the hole where it's such yankees' package in one neat little package. -- the Yankees my dad and and when he said that we cut the deal. The if I -- but I advocate the break with that crap -- ourselves nineteen and went out I get million in our sales but but by the way. That quote alone police anybody that ever wants to call up and -- that things get missed. Misconstrued when Pedro spoke because he didn't understand the language. And it was away all barriers Shakespeare poll ye sew so let's do this six -- seven Roger six it's a critic at the book and -- six it is geography was pretty better duke -- -- he went to Toronto to get close at all. 617779. 797. Kicking off sports on the tax free weekend with this question to -- -- that -- who it is it's out there so. Who wins the article by coach who is the greatest Red Sox pitcher and why now. You mention three things block numbers history and the total package good India. Shall we work backwards you mentioned the bad about Pedro and of course that about Nomar you noted that now the data out of my Roger what was that about Pedro was there now. I would agree with -- I mean if you especially in the pantheon of Roger and don't want it yet. Mikey showed up late and then in -- gave the bottom Bryce -- this afternoon game I think in the Saturday and many dressed in. Why did you read that and wait you know the funny thing about that -- It has a memory but -- A man -- you -- two examples. Number one you can walk up to Pedro right now and I asked him about Tom excellent. I go to Minnesota and -- great guy but he has picked -- As to -- end and the same thing. About Jimmy Williams. Is recently is like two years ago when Pedro showed up and spring training. Of the usual litany of questions and so what insolent and somehow he went down that dark road to that start the price -- got the game ball. And out of nowhere races you know and I apologize accumulated Sunnis get a floor at Munich -- that was like a hundred years ago so so. And it's not a negative that's a good thing that's helped Whitney Pedro when he was. Negatives would pay ago now now they'll war with you Devo was whining was he all of that. But those negatives those are part of his personality and like I said a few minutes ago. Most interesting guy was fascinating guy and by the -- one of the most intelligent guys you touched. That haven't recovered -- have been around and this isn't germane to me my existence you talk to anybody is covered baseball. The law in so many words say the same thing nominal as the number two. That's in the second most interesting it's. So Michael insisted what Michael Silverman and Harold he's got a book coming out and Pedro. You know those -- with there. And if he's the right guys do it has Michael when they go very unique relationship Michael as always pulling them dominicans and get stuff from Kato and that's going to be good book because -- it it it Pedro in practice anything like -- Meaning that the daily doses of over the years this'll be real. Eight so you mentioned numbers before we go to the break when -- dissent and history so let's talk numbers you're talking Red Sox numbers. -- I'm I'm certain right not. All cumulative numbers and his delegation that's a -- point if you if you would to while even then seven cy -- Roger. All right so not not not not the hardware I'm talking about. If you're asking the question who's the greatest Red Sox pitcher vault I don't you have to weigh -- the numbers in a Red Sox uniform. -- his overall career numbers. And I tell you an idea. Pedro in fairness this is again you just week. I think we just spent enough time -- Categorizing that Pedro and Roger with the two guys but anybody else in his right out of those three policies that he -- -- 94 which lowered them but -- are the numbers if you wanna get -- -- -- -- -- it's almost double. I mean Pedro pitched only seven years in a Red Sox you know from Roger pitched thirteen. Pedro started 203 game -- action from Roger started 382. Clearly Roger has the cumulative numbers thirteen seasons 192 wins tops on the all time with Tiger -- Cy Young however. Pedro is winning percentage generates -- she went for 6760. Rogers 634 both great and Pedro was 117 and 37. Roger is 192. -- eleven Rogers Red Sox ERA three point 06 Pedro is 2.5. Two. Isn't this partly like the yen as Jim Wright's argument. But usually it's it's like the Colfax OK because if you look at Colfax is numbers. The cumulative numbers on terms of total wins and so forth but if you look at that five years stretch. In which Colfax was just dominant on his game it is just you know whenever better in the history of baseball in -- back up your point. I will grant that Pedro. During it's 45 best seasons. Was still much better. Then other pitchers in the American ghastly whereas if you look at it surprising if you look at -- faxes earned run average in any given year. And then look at the number three startup of the pirates whoever was. You might see Baghdad it was twelve and fifteen. With a two point 89 ERA. Was something along those lines the -- Steen was fifteen and 153. Point 12. Whereas play goal was was in the high ones and low twos. At a time when it just seemed like every starting pitcher was 3.5 and higher. Well so he was so much better than his and. But again in a Red Sox perspective I heard that a lot this week and no disrespect to -- it's all true. But people tend to under radar forget maybe it's just generation. How could Roger Clemens was compared to the rest of the -- three -- six and eighty Syria. We never mind the numbers 24 429. In American League MVP which Hank -- still in our authorities -- clueless senator norm Charlton and the all star game what he did. -- -- up again before we go to the break and talk about the greatest threats -- Pitcher of all time to think we all agree it's right to go back it up and on Charlton got is that it's one of my great. Pet peas and my career so Roger and Pedro are there it came to the forefront this week with both of them on the mound all the shows this week to different angles on it. Morning show decided to go to steroids -- can also go to. You know -- they should have their own date Jerry was on this all week Pedro deserved his own day. Hey here's what I wanna get too. Defining moments in a Red Sox uniform they had a lot of them. Pedro had Don Zimmer Pedro had the seventeen strikeout game. Roger had a twenty strikeout game twice and all that but the post season changing get talked about a lot is interest. Roger's record in the post season and Red Sox uniform he's wanting to in nine starts. His defining moment. House to be game seven against the angels right. And Latvia after that win game five. Yeah but I paid so he was in the flow when he pitched it right but yet you still in Kansas. Whose name. But Pedro. Defining moment Timmy might be the greatest game pitched in Red Sox history and he didn't even start the six no hit innings in game five and 99 and softball game in Cleveland. Might be his most defining moment. And and and one of the most defining moments in Red Sox history for a guy who was throwing in the eighties. And threw six no hit innings again in a softball game so when you add this all up -- my answer go with a -- is the same as yours. It's Roger. It's Roger for all that they want you just say that -- minutes are you gonna call the station -- screen. We did not say that Doug is that what I want to have this discussion with you don't hit me below -- and nod. Roger is the greatest Red Sox pitcher in Red Sox history in my opinion. In the difference with Pedro. He's the thirteen seasons and he did -- for a longer period of time it's the guy's argument in a Red Sox. Uniform. While Pedro was more dominant. In a Red Sox uniform people make it sound like when you make that argument Roger wasn't dominant at all I'm sorry he was I think the hot button with Roger. Is always the last four years in the last contract in Red Sox uniform forty and 39 I think the way. I will the contract was for four games always 39. I think the way you have to justify how you think about Roger he need to answer this question. In the last four years and Red Sox uniform was Rogers the guy who was hurt -- worked out to be the same pitcher he was a was largely got it didn't work out didn't commit. As much as you used to well they have forty was her. Rick coming up right look at the number one of those so called three policies. Numbers were really good -- the last half of 96 is walking which pisses people -- even when he was the best pitcher in baseball that's second half of 96 is Milwaukee. I'm gone acted twilight of his career and gone back to 99343. Bad seasons. The so called bad seasons one of those seasons in theory it's parading strike of the -- world Roger liked but that was the the noble -- -- -- slocum is in them and yeah Kevin Kennedy years -- I don't know if hot seniors out right at ninety -- community for a -- and one of those seasons and he always gets beat up but those three. Bad seasons one of those seasons was -- well. You're talking about ninety to 2.4 one ERA he led the league started 32 games. He had five shut -- eleven complete games winning eighteen and eleven -- 246. Innings. Two yeah 91 he led the league with 271. Expects. We got to take a break the greatest Red Sox pitcher of all time always it is it someone other than -- Roger. Really did you watch the hall of fame induction ceremonies this -- your thoughts patriots. It's all on the table which sports on they would -- and butch joining us. I think you. I grew up by action -- mind. Few of the big genome came out of college that we don't want it. We want to be that kid that came hoping killed. I think and surprise everybody and you'll want. Players that distinguish itself. Any other human like who. The platoon players. For me going off in becoming a teenager. Of the time. I actually wanted to look up to. Pedro Martinez earlier this week. Hall of fame Red Sox hall of fame we talking with -- -- he talked about how much you admired Roger Clemens we're asking you this morning 617. 7797937. Who is the greatest Red Sox pitcher. Of all time and if you agree -- buck and I that it is Roger one Pedro won a woman who's number three if you wanna throw them. -- claims here without this morning today Cy Young. While I mean of course but it keep it. You know probably target in the past. Legal or that's the odd ultimate kettle black but the way but I just looked this up on the break. Did you know that not only did Cy Young when a 192 games that wanna say it right it's true or Roger Clemens -- Pedro Martinez who loves stories. Roger was a 192. And a 111 Cy Young was a 19212. However. -- argument different there. So I don't we played eight years in a Red Sox uniform. He started 327. Games in those eight years Roger started 382 games in thirteen seasons. Cy Young had 275. Complete games. -- the me say that again he started 327. Games yet 275. Complete games. -- forty gut over almost 400 decisions. What -- ignorant -- you get Europe mean. Go back the -- -- rat born and Clarkson and John McCain media I mean those guys which would -- sixty starts at 159 complete games it is unseemly. But you know Cambridge cemetery there Leo is the only cemetery world there's 23 in the game winners very well. John Clarke sent him to -- ball -- -- 8300 no Major League where we ask. Korean game and that's up all night and this is a trick question. -- gamers -- Cambridge. Little Braintree Kevin adults start with a little Braintree stuff okay. You into the Sylvain as there vs the Adam's yeah that's history I was go to the phones could beat him with -- -- I -- a lot of things you want it real garlic is is that you mentioned. Pedro in his command of the English language yes. We need to always remember -- at this point in the Caribbean today. That Pedro ride in the shores with no command of English whatsoever. Back in the days in foreign players it is heaved in there and in the minors and said that. He began its Korean great -- month and a horrible places. Rate falls -- with no English skills. And you learn from Immersion in those days. Out of it need -- to take -- long and be part of things. And you get players. It who's been speaking countries who get to the big leagues. And you'd be amazed how many of these players have solid English speaking skills. Because they with the rolled into it and Pico -- better than anybody in his community languages is just found. He knew it was an important thing to do it talks about all the time. But kick it off on sports on -- reject in Brewster house -- on the -- Jack. Another glorious being God's country guy you go in the flat. But I wanted to say I gotta go with Roger and you know. Hear me out on this. OK can you give -- so before you go into your. Explanation which we definitely wanna hear why give it just give us the most -- why Roger over Pedro. We always felt like we were we're extremely bloodthirsty when Roger came about. And we always felt like we had a chance I -- 86 he lets hope the next 45 years. They were completely overmatched in 88 and -- but some of the games well I can remember one particular look like. They lost to read -- Cuba Roger pitched eight innings and kept him in the dance single handedly and know what. When Roger was here it was what Roger Roger and Hurst expect the worst and then Roger and void fill the void I mean. If it's -- your reason obviously the certificate is -- -- a reason why Roger over -- we always felt like we had a chance because we -- the best pitcher in baseball on the mound. Pretty much I was at any different than Pedro. Well I think -- had a bit of a better supporting cast now you know I don't have my people aren't like repeated part of me right now we do -- -- But it is worth it the beat down -- you know understand -- That's that's the tell all I mean we're all those years upper -- I'm -- great -- I felt like that Roger was in a ticket to the promised land. No I know you don't look Jack I'm sort of -- but you know I got thinking about this this week. Kids that are in their twin kids young people that are in their twenties right now our thirty or below a thirty year old was jacking up. Pocket thirty year old think about this was twelve years old in 1986. Men and 96 excuse me the so someone much younger than thirty years old really can't grasp. The hole thirteen -- dug the hole thirteen year period. Of Roger Clemens in Boston and all that went on in the ups and downs and what Clemens met. When he came on the scene when he was the next coming in and delivered. And in 1986 we start the all star game like page. You can you have. If you're a thirty year old or younger you have an understanding of -- you just can't have that same understanding of Roger you didn't live through it it's hard. To answer this question if you didn't live through rupture. I agree with that because the the fans keep coming. Younger and young union new fans every year and we forget. Mean 67 you -- be over 55. Years old I was seven so I can't I. I I didn't let lived through it into something was going on I couldn't understand the magnitude of -- I was eleven -- news it was right might ballpark so to speak. And but you've got to be of a certain age of any respect for 67. Real understanding. Some believe this semifinal series in an age now where if -- under. Forty years so you know in early in the French semifinal series. If -- under thirty really not going to have an appreciation. In a deep in the belly I was the air rights are higher remember this game. Understanding Roger Clemens and so -- will happen in a few years with which it is because last year was ten years ago right practice. So now if you're a college senior. 321. Years old going into stone -- that you're allowed him. And without you 1112. When page mostly Boston. I was if you -- 21 year old all right it was ten years gonna yeah that's insane so if if -- entities Durham moderate you're going union seniors don't -- That means you -- -- little -- the last time Pedro pitched for the Red Sox so when when you talk to a college seniors stone Ellis it if Pedro. About the little kid it was none today my dad took me. It's three months of -- for it it's like -- back in time. Where is. I think it was were in the short period it was pitch and it's that it's different by different generation. I am a loyal chief to animal always even though it skybox -- my daughter's going to curry next years ago. Focused on the colonel's right now to ice it and Curry College let's go to Brian in New Hampshire O'Brien. Hey guys lined. First and foremost want to thank you -- -- it's very enjoyable. Every ounce on the morning format do a lot of driving and I don't -- guys on. Thank you are great you're great thank you Brian appreciate that we have chemistry we work well together to. Well I don't think we -- certain -- you better stop stop -- -- you know one thing you want me. The -- I just won't let you guys I'm not a big animal nervous aren't you guys that are out there I'm not a big stat guy I just -- tell you like my feeling. Growing up of Roger and Pedro. And hold you Bryan there's a third pitcher I want to mention all the I'm 53 OK good good yeah. But the thing was that was most exciting about the two of them. -- every time they came to pitch. You do -- we will probably gonna win that game and it was amazing. If they -- in the game I ever remember always been like blown away and you know I didn't catch the end of the game powers work. Or whatever it was a situation has some Brian Billick. They lost that game. -- it brought a lot and it was and it was that good where it was just like. Well these guys can't possibly lose out any any games at all when they're out -- Think about -- think about that perspective that's a fan's perspective think about that as a teammate -- You're going to Ceres and you've -- Clemens or Pedro pitching game one. On the start of the West Coast trip or game three on Sunday your mentality. To have a guy like that going is like OK so we just got to win one of the first two games consent is given. We're gonna win Sunday -- if page -- just it's and so Brian I think it's a great point. I think the value. Of them to quote the best pitcher in baseball pitching for our team growing up through that it's just. It was on. It was uncharted territory for for most of us wasn't it. Merit yet very much help and and I know I buy one -- a third pitcher and I don't put them in the same class but there was a very small wind though there. Which Tim Wakefield was untouchable. When he went out on the mound it was very -- I'm not. I'm not -- certainly certainly. -- -- think and -- -- at all I'm just -- I remember Tim -- being in 95 to stretch I was fifteen and one in. And a stretch of about eighteen starts in 1995 when he was the best pitcher basically said this before Steve you agree expert I said this many times that of always spot. That when -- at a game. The most exciting pictures to see. Were Roger and Pedro and Curt Schilling in the -- of gas and strike guys out -- always said. That watching on TV paid to -- it was more funny TV. Myself why. Because the slow Mo of an idea while these -- analyzed so when he strikes a guy out on a pitch that. Starts out up by the press box in the -- club and then drops down below the knees. And you get that behind you know that demonstrate what -- camera behind home plate. You know all the beautiful Jeremy capstar radio yeah yeah with a with a football helmet on who knew me -- you Meyer and now and all the beautiful people sit back the -- and -- -- beautiful new -- will be open and but you get a behind the plate shock. Oh Wakefield knuckleball and have always said. That what appointment viewing. I always just the love what if I was home there and in you can watch a game at home I love what you -- to welcome the other thing about but that to finish that up real quick. Sometimes watching Wakefield -- from Fenway. If you're not right behind the plate if you're at the angles like down a third person that signed it almost looks lobbed the ball over the place. It just looks like I can do that right equipment of course but when you when you when you're down like section eight or something. Or section three years that it looks like he's just want to double it doesn't have the same. While the other thing about Tim Wakefield of course was the master of the two hour and fifteen minute game or. He would do it's Steve Buckley and butch -- -- sports Sunday is always relied at Fenway Park Red Sox and Astros at 135 that he joked Ali. Makes his Fenway debut and a Red Sox uniform 1250 to pregame on the WEI Shaw's star market. Pregame show what Mike -- your phone calls and more after this on sports on. I think everybody knows it. Little bit of the pressures that go be in the number one pick and things like that so I knew I was coming to Boston. You know when I was at university takes that never really saw a lot of Boston scouts always saw the Rangers and Astros and I think that year. I think the Astros. -- who were playing tonight in the Sox are playing night I do little work for the Astros had. You know what the Rangers had a third pick of the country that you're in 1983 draft and they're they're Astros had the fifth that the Rangers took I think a shortstop named Jeff comical. In the Astros took a catcher named Robbie -- so the only event elation that I knew that. And that you know I was gonna get drafted was the Dodgers and I think did the pick right behind boss. Roger Clemens talking earlier this week about what it meant for him to be drafted by the Red Sox were talking about the greatest Red Sox pitcher of all time. And here's one number for you Roger Clemens started a 179. More games. In Red Sox uniform and Pedro Martinez that's not the main number -- Steve Buckley and I both say this morning on sports on that Roger. Is the greatest Mets at pitcher vault them over Pedro put it is a factor 179 more teams started in a Red Sox uniform -- Pedro Martinez. I just wanna touch me get a lot of calls that bite we just plea from -- he had a lot of calls Spock the -- they're not calling to talk to me I think they are. I'm over here pressing buttons it does you clean drinking buddies from the Braintree days on the on the phone -- -- let out at you as would you. And done. So. I have some experience here because I actually recovered IG in -- Datsyuk. -- experience but I -- covered in 1983 post World Series. Is important Portland would spike only shortstop or Roger -- on armor that series. Because I comedian rich windows on -- -- I can't be receiving black peers and you know John weaknesses post Kevin Buckley. And so I actually saw Roger pitch you can Wichita State -- seventeen strikeouts. What is always amazed me. Now I was in -- In the entire city was buzzing about Roger Clemens and he was the big name and that. College World Series there was this big guy from an -- was. So on pitch against Wichita State for starters on yet and the name of the draft it was right around that time during the code to answers and Roger goes seventeenth or eighteenth pick forget what it was to the Red Sox. And I'm -- agency schmo from Portland. How could he go to seventy he mentions -- wine he was the son of Bobby wine it was a Phillies coach. And Jeff comical with the senate bill comical to form -- league pitcher in America league umpire and both made it to the big leagues Robbie couldn't hit and now with the catcher comical was a shortstop at a bit of success how to bounce around. But Roger was Roger. -- and myself as the what was -- 27. And I'm sick in the air pocket Roger would not be the first pick in the draft of a shot by that the red sites. Lou Gorman years in in that was one of the best picks and it's such as well -- from wrong move. Mormon with the Mets the year before drafted -- went back into the draft unions -- Was drafted by the -- yes yeah. Go right to the phones they're lit up about this the greatest threats -- pitcher of all time Sox and Astros won 35 and he -- Kelly on the -- I'm Sharon I mean -- and Sharon how are you Bob. Output which are. Like to say -- do we have a mutual friend died but late charting a release from -- Off Johnny was. Each of the guys family's wonderful and it's on and I try to make all the talk to -- it's done by the way who had an organ transplant is doing unbelievably well. It's great to know couldn't rates in the -- -- and it -- you thank you mentioning. I look I know we thought the world you. And out your book very happy that I'm -- I like that get it to the yak to that conversation about yet that -- but I think I'm. I -- -- army are separately the renowned guy at them and you can make -- case against and I was he had. Outs aren't they announce -- in the DMZ in Korea and I'd -- -- now know about this and now. What you may actually got you know I mean it was like and and yet he'll. Osama bin Laden is a problem I went -- it but think of our allies -- -- yeah it was just a great pitcher and request that you and people forget that he was put on the scrap heap by the great. He was released by the way and -- -- -- Now what I know it I know that story while the union street in the twins the twins -- he silent raid was in Richmond. In which -- and -- that they get released but what but the tactic to -- Arnold took she gets on him and I. Talk about -- you know in and in Japan that he saw what looked a little bit so when I I don't Pedro it was a -- raised ICL in the short time we got cold -- But our climate the question -- that's -- to get them beat tide outbreak that might be a lot to watch it's what we came medical. And now. And that but I can like -- could say that but yeah I I still speak out yet he deserves a little Irish. He's gotten consideration I think he gets consideration from Reebok in this discussion of greatest threats art which is about 38 years in a Red Sox uniform. 122 games he's won 22 and 81 this is -- on moderates our team of a 113. Complete games and it's the seventy's it was a different era. However. Really anybody argues that when you say greatest game pitched in Red Sox history who ET on is in the top five in May be the top three. With game five -- -- was in the 75 World Series several columns 153 pitchers right. I've written several -- saying that it lieutenants in the hall of fame if you look at team on its numbers. Catfish hunters numbers on dries deals numbers particularly hunters and T -- You'll be shocked at the similarity between the numbers it's it's almost -- Yet. Catfish Hunter and drysdale sailed into the hall of fame TM was barely in the ballot a few years and disappeared. So so my respect for -- and is second to nobody's. At the end of the day though. When you have a discussion of greatest threats and a and -- like -- you know science -- -- -- different here but when you talk. To make it nice and simple. Greatest Red Sox pitching in modern history. It's Clemens and Martinez and then. We can get the team and on board -- shelling in and agreed that but I think when people make this argument they look at Louis and they think you pitched four years. In reds pitched eight years not and I agree with -- and a and I'm saying that I if I if I were able to vote I'm hoping voter. If TO were back on the ballot I would happily vote for him. I believe there is no payment without any hesitation. Having said that. It it dilute the argument entered -- and and let's let's establish for everybody here now TN a figured it's expected to be in all of -- period. Cooperstown he -- yes in India Cooperstown -- And when you move beyond that. You can only talk Clemens and paid period and that once took -- by the way one other number for Louis compared to drives actually allowed. Compared to drysdale and -- that I think make your point he only had the opportunity. To pitch in five post season games. His record in five postseason games three and now -- for Red Sox starts he went three you know. In his Red Sox postseason -- we gonna take a break to let's go to Scott framing him before we take the break top of the hour Scott. Morton looks a dispute and hunting -- They're very lucky your -- and embolden them with it and you know -- genius and it is. Is that important -- -- is that right are you gonna save for us I mean I agree with you it. And you know you know Scott what's interesting about that if you remember there's the one year. Clemens left. And they signed a member who they signed and paid more money than they should've. Dan Duquette signed in 1997. Nice seven. After Clemens -- it's far now you know what I'm. -- -- Steve Avery I remember right -- and then and then Dan Duquette. And then Dan -- -- traded Carl Pavano and Tony Armas junior for Pedro Martinez beat the Yankees to the punch because Jim Beattie the GM of the -- at the time. Supposedly was knocked in a century into the Yankees under any circumstances. Well I think if you think about the teams Pittsburgh and Seattle back and -- whatever. They have a heck I'd like that that in Pakistan you know we just don't -- you couldn't pick -- to -- -- -- I'm. I just haven't seen you or you -- -- Clemens -- sort of bad teams Tinto you know hit me he had he had no. Clemens' art you know I think look -- terms of music you know younger competitors. I think that interpret that he's put. Large it was a -- great we have nobody would. I wouldn't say I didn't nobody thanks for the call Scott I mean it I think that's a bit of an exaggeration to make a point I mean in 1985 buck. They had Jim Rice. They had Dwight Evans they had. Don Baylor. I think they had nobody to at a pretty good lineup the Red Sox in a benefit went back and looked at 8586. They were led the legal in the top two or three in runs produced. And -- -- and -- they've led in most starting pitcher -- go sell. Your point is well taken Scott -- yes for Pedro seven years compared to Rogers thirteen the world -- down years with a Red Sox -- may be Roger to carry it more. And page had more support. And maybe that's part of why he was more dominant without winning percentage of 130 points higher than Rodgers. Not a break first -- down several more hours to go its -- sports Sunday here on WB.