WEEI>On Demand>>Where is David Ortiz's rightful place among the all-time great Red Sox players?

Where is David Ortiz's rightful place among the all-time great Red Sox players?

Jul 22, 2014|

We discuss the home run achievements David Ortiz made last night that moved him ahead of Carl Yaztremski, and discuss Papi's place among all the all-time great Sox sluggers.

Transcript - will not be 100% accurate

Our number two dale and -- Sports Radio WEEI. Our buddy Steve Buckley is in house says right here on my text machine Steve Buckley has the best baseball speaker on the face of the earth. -- -- so right there so must be true. Does that number down at 37937. The -- -- an -- -- line not a that's the text line if you'd like to. We've got a bunch stuff we've been talking about the Red Sox. Have now won eight of nine. Hi I'm John has jokingly called -- John Dennis has called lap wins after Pierzynski. But it is hard to ignore the fact. Whether you wanna say it's coincidence that aren't if you do what you wanna say it was addition by subtraction I think it probably wise. On this team has played dramatically better since presents -- left the clubhouse and Christian Vasquez entered the club. Yes but for for not the reasons that people think. They they aren't a better ball club because. AJ Pierzynski was a sour person and talked in his cell phone did all that nonsense that was being disseminated. They're better team because Vazquez is a catcher and Kaczynski was not what's what's not looks like cloud the issue here since he was a bad -- that we could all see that. Jon Lester concede journalists that it -- a problem. But it if this club buzz is that delicate. That AJ Pierzynski could walk in there and suddenly the entire chemistry would be thrown into chaos. Then that speaks poorly for David a -- John Lackey Jon Lester. Us inventory and the other so called leaders on this team. That business about talking himself while we it was just a lot of nonsense being whittled helped by players who couldn't just come out and say was a lousy -- All right Campbell -- -- delta could -- allows I say why can't both be true I don't Bradford said both. Bradford is the one that the story about a brackets and it's -- resolve the intangible. Talked a cellphone. This -- and all that stuff but Bradford has been saying all year. -- -- -- So that was the whole point with the story in to hear him talent in this -- following his work. It's yeah AJ Pierzynski is not great catcher so I think that you write that that's a big reason that it's in trapped in the recent. He's -- catcher via bat catcher and an eight hole. Come on the bad cop out that's terrible result if he's a great guy -- maybe hangs around for awhile now but he's gonna get 25 guys that are. Hey how you doing well great guys -- great guys but probably. They got 25 guys were better at what they do that when AJ Pierzynski was at what he did. I question that I didn't I guess I -- I don't I thought is that if a great guy but it would have been -- -- cattle -- about AJ Pierzynski talking in his cell phone are looking at his cellphone. Was -- like we got exempt until with I didn't like that example that was the only example gimme Delaware must be something else right that's mild all right decide that it got a story there goes the story. There was something there that at an even the fact that the fact that. Guys didn't like him on his cell -- where do you think it's -- you're not. -- a story because now you admit it like out now you as a reader. Can do what you just it interpreted as saying well I know this has meant to make me think. That AJ Pierzynski is a bad guy but what I come away thinking is that. There -- some weak mindedness in the room that story I think was a story that -- -- a writer would say that I usually here and all the time from. From from the coaches and players that I don't need her story here already. Help me out helping out so presents deep. As we get a visual here. Imagine a clubhouse -- AJ Pierzynski sitting as this is in the dugout or in the in the locker what does this. I get -- article about out of here having their -- I -- and it was the club looking at his cellphone. And I know her unit are as I know during his locker so. We have fun we have blocker is did in in it would it's disposed to clay buckles is -- too common when I'm accurately think yeah okay so he would be at roughly 10 o'clock. When we present -- walker. To the left over on the outside wall there were almost pitchers -- well pitches I think. And -- bought colts is having an emotional meltdown he feels what that is gonna set verge of tears and and 25 feet away. Pierzynski is texting or something. That's an issue. Brock I think it's stupid you know listened to me I agree with you if it's the error of their crimes against AJ Pierzynski. And there are thirty of them. That's number thirty on the listeners about effect how what I've ever seen 129 -- strike that went from the record but the fact is the fact that somebody brought it up to Bradford. And that was a problem it was perceived as a problem what we think of the problem or not. Is a story you're -- is not a story should have been written -- and -- and -- should have been -- I just wanted to sample a white examples one to 29 is what I -- well I am with you there but it I don't offer up 120 whatever they got it so Alan you're right now it's a story. Maybe it's not me. That is the definitive city. I told you I would show -- different what are jerk this guy is -- are literally did. Texas is why you don't why do you might dump on AJ after he's gone well first the ball. In her first ball marks if it. We don't make stop I know you don't believe this we try not to make stuff up here and so until we worked hold that this happened. I didn't know that it happened Buckeyes who knew didn't know what happened I -- what happened what's dumping on aging saying is that a good catch -- that. That said that I said I said that both for. Spring training -- -- I credit I would assigning I would have to present -- in May. A lot of guys that I -- of the Jon Lester thing we said don't blame me I alternate list I had a lot a lot of people whether we never caught him again after that -- And I believe I mean -- -- was lit up and I think Jon Lester it was a good idea when elected to have John -- and said. Don't put him behind fans and media talk show host. There is no I know he hit him maybe that this Texas thinks there's a secret society or there's a secret meeting. Where talk show host meet with players on May be traffickers but talk show host and the players and they decide that. All you know since we're not in town you won't say anything negative about me on the -- happens AJ Pierzynski was not a very good players like my least favorite player. Whoever ever seen come through town with the Red Sox -- beat Carl Everett. I try and it's it's not a big deal to say this guy is doing the job this -- is not doing the job he did not do the jobs efficiently while he was here it's not a big secret. Back to the call 6177797937. Adams down on the -- you're next on sports radio's dale and -- I -- I didn't call and I'd describe our embargo achieved what you guys are about -- Ortiz is numbers. I'd bet on the IP but it -- -- -- -- numbers is because -- bottom. Might not -- -- now and with Indian got the emergence. You can't pitch around them and the cabinet are required about being leaders. Important as -- needed to print with his numbers in the out that -- have a record or lack. -- and truth in that the only the only adjustment I'd make is that EED go like one for sixteen after the all star break. With Napoli in the lineup saw and I'm not gonna quibble I think I agree to a larger point. Okay now are as far as Ortiz and we're talking about it before -- -- -- -- -- and looser. But Ortiz number two in Red Sox history after -- As far as the hitter Soviet look at the Red Sox hitters. Let's say in the last. Sixty years. So you would go Ted Williams. You'd go -- would David Ortiz and then at the -- yes I'm uncomfortable with that. I think the only only contenders. Would be Manny Ramirez. Well I'm assuming now you're talking on pitchers right. Had a talk and curious. About -- saying non pitchers in other words you know maybe I'd put Pedro ahead of David Ortiz or or Cy Young -- -- trying to hit it right just letters just players play non pitchers there. So. Would I don't know would would would tighten hitters to not know I don't know he's not know because he said. And and in fact he went out of his way to say. Yeah as obviously played gold -- left field right and David Ortiz is -- DH but he still said. David Ortiz is a better player but yes what citizenry gets semantics here if you wanna go all around player might take Diaz because he -- all those gold gloves and played in the field and David Ortiz record eyes and -- also it was a very good I know we have that pop up off gossage and I opened the package he was a very good quite -- yet. And if you look what -- the LCS the World Series those final two games against twins. And on and on and on. If you are talking pure hitting the -- of defense and pitching we just talking about. Walking up to the dish with the -- what you've done I would -- did I would I'm comfortable with -- -- yes the contenders are even taking her up and step -- -- down during that relative period. Do what you have to go with. -- Manny. As -- for that -- -- -- it's as far as contenders like anybody who could who could knock. Ortiz out of that two spot. Because the argument the only only real argument you have is. If you put Ortiz won a scene out -- let's just got to -- -- -- -- an -- -- Jerry Norton he's done that here on on these Airways. But other than that if you wanted to have an argues that are just Jerry saying look at me -- I don't know if Jerry really believing that David Ortiz. Is a better hitter. -- -- He knew all the stats we went and sat right there right where you're sitting. He went on and on and on about all the numbers he knows Ted Williams and in New -- everything you need to know about Ted Williams put. He still put Ortiz in front of but it you're talking on number two and Red Sox history there is an argument for number two can you make a case for Jim Rice. RT a priority doing if you wanna take away power to Wade Boggs at the five batting titles. In the on base percentage I mean it is it's this is one of those funds what's discussions that there's no real -- to be paid if folic we're talking about. Should Michael Sam play in the NFL. Which is 88 story with consequences if you if you banged on the gavel to know we shouldn't than their consequences right. This is one of those hall of fame type discussions. Where at the end of day -- -- can have a bureau -- go home. Yeah so dale said hitter dale said hitter I think that we may have to make another distinction may have to say. -- Because if you would we enter we take sway bars -- bitter because -- -- they hitter it's its head in its weight yes 120 right. And everybody else is playing for Manny might be might Manny might be ahead of him to. -- oh as they. Ahead of Ortiz yes. I think Manny as a hitter with the Red Sox know not enough time. Probably not enough time. The twenty years they would look at David's been here for thirteen am so. You know -- at their team -- 20031. Season here in 2014 am. I'll always said many rumors is the best right handed hitter of my Red Sox lifetime. -- you can go back Jimmie -- -- -- -- -- -- -- and that's out of my analyst Ted Williams out of my purview as well right -- and often -- Who Ted Williams is and what did you -- did you can anybody gave up five years that they really had a guy -- -- argument but you can't make a real argument that that anybody in Red Sox history is a better hitter instantly and I don't know I apparently you can't because of the guy we -- -- try. Who showed up here and does that I think he's tried to do it I don't think anybody can do it with any count of conviction. I like Jerry that I think gets carried just plain and I think you know I think Jerry's its own truth now part of it is. Maybe you look at the numbers and say well you can put up those numbers today I -- or maybe. You're so emotional. Says -- -- that didn't face black Satchel Paige and Alexandra part of the thing you can bring that up it is part of the argument simply that. It would Ortiz has three rings and Ted has not accurate part of an instrument that's the romanticism. Of I'm David Ortiz and that big home run cities hit -- feeling that he gave everybody in the region and breaking the drought -- things so maybe that's part of but it if you just look at your. -- if you are ideally hate when people say -- had wings choked in the 46 World Series. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 46 that was a fraud but -- -- -- fifteen years Ted's name is not much I know I don't think so a picnic. At a but there there you'll come you've heard people say that he choked in the 46 World Series. The Sox are dependent lined up that chart giants and cardinals are playing in a playoff series -- he would nationally panic in Joseph Cronin did something was preposterous these stupid. He set up a series of exhibition game to keep the Ritz looked sharp with -- big leaguers in in big leaguers whose teams were done. And he took a pitch up the elbow his elbow swelled up he could barely grip -- bat went by between five Walters at five singles. And her brother folks wanna read that Bradley's book as Steve Buckley is right now 800 page book Georgia -- Now I got up from at Lynn's book 25 years that taxer who puts it it's a saintly for those who don't wanna put David Ortiz. In such a lofty position. Very simple text Ortiz has steroids -- And they're going to be those folks are gonna say David Ortiz his career start to finish as -- Bolstered by the use of perform the crevices just distance it's anyways didn't -- release special on this all night. Let me just drive the point home even more. I don't know David Ortiz and what he took. I could send an I can give him Victor Conte a round the clock. He Balco could be his playground. To all the steroids and steroids cocktail that you want. Let's say all of his numbers. Our steroid -- every single one of them. It's still no comparison between Ted Williams and David Ortiz. It's not a steroid thing -- thing. Numbers just don't match up pets numbers are superior to David Ortiz is which is not a -- to David Ortiz and distribute. The jury of different path I got to the I mean and and for some folks leaving it there this steroid argument out folks the three rings will trump whatever numbers numbers advantage Ted. That's the argument to a general manager. Cannot now you right now you -- holding a guy got general manager gives him. Xavier is our most people in Boston don't compare. They don't compare Ted Williams. There Wilt Chamberlain and Wilt Chamberlain -- cup championships. But if you -- who lobbied on Boston because of Bill Russell will say Bill Russell won eleven championships in thirteen years twelve times in a finals. This thirteen year career will Chamberlain what does he what does he got he was just a numbers guy. But then turn around and say hey Ted Williams look at those numbers that they're amazing they can't you can't really have it both ways I think in the case of Ted Williams and Wilt Chamberlain. Their careers are amazing. And what was around them they had nothing to do with what was around especially in baseball. What do you do meet Ted Williams could be the greatest hitter ever a lot of people argued that it was well. Right I would I would say to you what are the other pitching staff openly rout for a while women for 46 to 52 they had. Dominant teams every year. And something always went wrong 46 -- was the World Series in seven games. 48 there was that one game playoff against the Indians 49 needed to win one game at -- -- in the season and they lost both. So that is three trips to the world this three potential World Series championships. The 1950 a 51 Red Sox at three -- -- a hundred RBIs for a minute power stealing everything it's a powerhouse teams now things -- -- How to cure we're about how that are not content that's my point how how is that knock on him. That those teams couldn't win. You know you'd look at you sets up and always what wrong and it usually usually involved. A guy who's playing 200 miles away too much. 199. -- himself you know. That that's probably what went wrong. A lot of the time. 6177797937. Is telephone number the AT&T text line is 37937. I heard -- On -- with John and -- last week and make a legitimate in my opinion. Even if I disagree with them a legitimate argument that Jon Lester could be on a track that would ultimately lead to a hall of fame birth and Timmy David Ortiz is even more firmly on that track but we'll talk about it. When we come back 617779793. Sevenths telephone number. Don't miss for a four top of the hour we're gonna talk about phenom out of nowhere who became stars in the city of Boston.

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