WEEI>On Demand>>Minor Details Ep. 78: Tim Hyers on Red Sox hitting prospects, Keith Law on AL East farm systems

Minor Details Ep. 78: Tim Hyers on Red Sox hitting prospects, Keith Law on AL East farm systems

Apr 6, 2014|

Red Sox minor league hitting coordinator Tim Hyers discusses when/how prospects are deemed big league ready as hitters while also taking stock of a number of Red Sox hitting prospects. Keith Law of ESPN also joins to discuss how the farm systems of the five AL East teams compare, and explains how the status of those player development systems informs what those teams have been doing in terms of roster construction at the big league level.

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This week with a minor league season underway we're going to check in and take stock of how the Red Sox farm system stacks up against -- of their elite competitors will be talking with -- -- yen in order to get a relative assessment of how the Red Sox look how much they are able to rely on their debt relative to teams like yankees blue -- the Orioles and of course the -- but first with a minor league season underway we are going to figure out how some of how players are assigned to different levels. In order to do that we're going to talk with minor league hitting coordinator Tim hires about the expectations. That the Red Sox have for players when their assigned to different levels of the minor leagues or actually even all the way up to the big leagues so. How is it that the Red Sox make a determination about when a prospect as Zander Bogart's or Jackie Bradley junior is ready for the major leagues. You know that there -- players -- in the have different strength in different talent but I think generally. We're we're looking forward that it. You know is this dependable. I got Luke and you know understand the strike down understands its strengths and weaknesses. You he's a guy that you know it occurred to him in the lineup you know coupled with ports you know he expects to do it whatever part of that lineup and now. I think for the Red Sox you know. We hit the side. And you know player -- part you know short strikes -- -- It strikes work counts and make sure that. Oh yeah we make the pitcher work -- not to give out -- And you know what you're looking at them middle infielders got -- quick. You know. You know move the ball around -- expectant. You go to control strikes down and absorb it strikes where you know little bit. You know we've talked about European not to bother ballpark and a little bit less so worried about. You know the strikes so we're look forgot it to his talent there and be dependable as doing matchup. I think. You know looking for Qaeda -- in -- -- in this. Animal what insurance weaknesses are. In thinking about things from the opposite end of the spectrum what tells -- is that a young player kind of at the start of his professional career. Is ready to break spring training in over an extended spring training. Open up with a with a full season affiliate like single a Greenville. I think. -- not -- it kind of goes back due some of the similarities. That we look at. They cannot understand. What he's trying to do on the field would be or trying to do in the batter's box on. Obviously we expect in the media to be perfect real expecting. You know be cylinders that's what we expected they have a -- understand what they're trying to -- with their approach. They have their work ethic and understand and that our process you know come into the field every day ready to work. Go through you know that they were with the encouraged. You know understand you know our situation and understand. You know strikes are your -- and things like that enter our kids that. -- -- to put the ball and play. And can hit the fastball. I think that's securabit you know -- the chance they do your kids and chances are rising Google. That level that start it's been a lot more breaker vote it would control. Of them watching it strikes. I think -- sit in with the ball in play it yeah understandably struggled -- that -- I think he's got a chance -- luck surviving and to develop our. -- that level they're really getting their feet wet. Special urged -- It's it's an -- have -- ups and downs or just look for it that's gonna work -- -- you know understands what struck in the do or would encourage. -- you a number of your prospects will say that they are trying to execute a collective aggressive philosophy which I have a feeling has been drummed in their heads by a lot of their development staff. To view as you explain it to some of these young kids or as fair as they're hitting coach is that an individual level explains. That's selective aggressive approach what does that mean. Meaning that not all strikers are true swing now structure of strikes are in you know. There's going to be a pitch down and away that's really the pitcher's pitch early in the count. You know we try tool which we are hostages. We want you know our our swings remain in mechanically. Now for -- disadvantages. You know more torn -- and a -- bit more mistakes more. Which -- that they can handle it. You know as a pitches to open up percentage you know if there -- low ball -- that structure where they well look for the ball better. -- need to get the ball up so it's whatever they're pledged you know. You know their their structure. But that this strike its -- outside the strike this down and away. Those are that your strikes are ready we need to let those go back because what you gonna happen as we sort of early count we give up Al. In the nineteen you know it's such -- kind of our slush is sort of make sure that we. That's what it is. That we can handle and we do that more often early in the count. Religion but it simply part of mass at the battle between. The pitchers and hitters so that the struck quality strike. Get this out early just not you know we we -- just -- -- -- Reno -- treatment stitched him up. He's gonna get tired throughout the game is certainly more state and that's what we -- apple. You work in player development which means that your your. Part of this of this organization's efforts to teach guys and to improve them you know hone their skills. Is plate discipline something in pitch recognition something that you believe is more innate or is it something that you think is more learned his guys move up the latter. -- I think it kind of statistic yet and there's everybody's built different and I do think that. Think your background. Or some did you play based -- our lives are since you know their side didn't have an experienced. It is you know probably. You know partners there are limits similar they are what they are you know we're. You know we did some. -- raw athletic at some future haven't played a lot of other sports and in the united plays much baseball is you know the next yet. I think that you learned the game and in the air Cingular has a lot higher in similar -- You know they have a lot more progression in that area so. Interpreted that -- I think it is one of the hardest things to teach our callers to a group. At the professional level. This thing that we try to work on -- We really yeah I do it we currently have -- part of our process has turned. Figure out ways to help kids understand -- hours. -- seeing the ball early. You know I think that. I know that some organizations have taken the approach it -- -- to take keeper in the past of a player needs to have a certain walk rate before he's ready to be promoted. -- had either do you guys now or did you ever. Take that approach of okay we need to is he with at least a baseline of walking in 8% of -- at -- or something before you're ready to move up in season. Well which -- -- you know roughly around. You know certain numbers I would say you're correct our. I think the numbers are gonna -- side it was really. We really need to ask ourselves where should just keep it promoters of this to it this slow no. -- numbers can be. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- You know on the level or at least doesn't do it at the polite. Talking to Red Sox finally hitting coordinator Tim -- so since we've been talking up plate discipline. As we as we kind of move the conversation and -- -- some specific prospects. There are couple who stand out in terms of what they do bring in terms of in terms of ability to force pitchers into the strike zone. So -- I'm curious as to your perspective on. -- and two guys guarantee Kenya and -- you bet who just standout -- jumps out what they're able to do in terms of overall walker a what what it when you look at a guy like to Keeney. Is he kind of the embodiment of what you talked about with that being an innate thing did you know some guys having -- that killed -- Been honed in by playing baseball and they were probably in diapers. Yours you're exactly right -- that continues. A prime example. But one thing you want -- about it and he just he really -- the student regain. In focuses in that area and so I think it's best. You know return because he's such -- yeah that's marketer values a lot of things that are important that the play. You know. He's very disciplined. User has herbal work ethic they also value city in the baseball. In northern Montana. -- ought to do evidence. -- most important thing in connection with baseball. In concentrate each it is it's quiet at quiet. Really values not swinging a ball and -- in the works out to test its net so. He has a lot of positive working its way. Such Smart that are there. It is. He can filter a lot of information users who loves the talks and that's one thing about that information he needs to use. It's his information from there -- Some action maybe that. And -- -- they used their somebody else wash away instead is that. He is someone who's just who's just now starting his triple -- career. How close to -- he only spent last year what does the second half of the year in double play. It is is there is does that approach. That kind of maturity and and understanding of of both know his approach into his swing. Make him someone who get who kind of throws himself into a Major League conversation. Faster than other than a lot of other prospects at -- at a comparable age. I think so and it goes back Q. It is a lot of -- organization a couple of them in very dependable company we know he's gonna get a quality of that. There have a lot of weaknesses. Is very competitive strong minded. -- that we -- to compete. And so there's so many things you know here you have a comfort level with that type -- -- And so you know accessories and he's Kara and our structure here. Rookie -- I think was entered a goodly part of last season walking about twice for every time he was striking out can you explain him as a hitter. It's a very good actually. Has really good and backward nation and for some reason not to -- -- the justice in baseball earlier out of pitchers. And think that that's one thing it. You know is very important and hitters picked up on just that Lewis. Things from the from the picture. It seems like he has a really good balance -- play. Except that baseball really early make decisions really quick. And that's arteries -- that you know actually yours -- guidance in this gonna have good. Plate discipline -- really good on base percentage there throughout this career. He was also a very strange character in terms of someone who had zero home runs in lol and I believe he said. That he had hit zero home runs and his high school career as well and then all of a sudden unloaded with fifteen last year while he is putting here between Greenville in Salem. What is he as a hitter is he going to be a guy who drives the ball out of the park. I I don't think that's going to be used its main. -- -- his biggest hole. I think he actually to power -- saying that if you make mistakes around. He came you know he can -- her as well. In you know yeah it can change in game that the production. He's not gonna -- on the long ball is is that -- -- -- -- know -- -- why aren't you get a lot of doubles. Going to be that need to power that. You know they think makes mistakes doctor part. In and if -- ever predict it. You know. Sits in the middle of the order in it's a lot of long policies there are a lot of line drives -- with his speed is gonna create a lot of -- out of. He was someone who was promoted late last year to Salem only spent really the last month and -- half or so up at that level and -- IA. But -- also played well in the Arizona Fall League obviously. What was the can what was. The selling point for saying clearly he's someone who belongs in double A to start this year. You know just the consistency of equality and at bat. This going back to -- a lot of things that we accurate. Understanding distracted on football player. To -- the -- play our. You know like you said he and -- to teen hormones that. Wasn't just with home runs you know a lot of lot of have made a lot of solid contact. And it uses -- tough it's tough out and so I think part of the reason is. You know because this is that such Goodyear is young kid in. You know we won that -- insignia. To -- then. And move forward and is it really well Salem and so. You know -- get a chance to view you can do it in double -- Thinking in the upper levels about some of those guys who may have kind of -- who may have later developing plate discipline when a guy who was really interesting last year. Was Christian Vazquez who used to strike at a lot more than he walked Lester walked more than he struck out. In this here in spring training I know if this if this translated. When he got optioned down to minor league camp but he was also showing the ability to kind of pick his spot and really be able to it to drive the ball on them in a way that I think. Some of the Major League staff was necessarily expecting by that showed kind of the development process. What did you see from Christian Vazquez in terms of what he was able to accomplish last year in this year and kind of taking his offense to another level. You know I give a lot of credit -- reached -- -- and double it is encouraged and -- time whether. He has a lot of and cancer or where. We're Christian but I think they came up with a pretty good routine that he. Really. Gained a lot of confidence and I think you just have to be consistent. In I really never worried about -- -- -- powers such as China. In that progression of developing. They. Interest in this group as a hitter in I think with -- rich in you know with a few mechanical things in a few mental side. On the opposite side I think that they can that was pretty good plan. You know that second -- and a lot of confidence in. Company to look factions in Israel and you're typically camp in that are related topic. And now what about Christian -- -- this sneaky. Quick battle and immersed in our name. And I think that's what the power comes from if he doesn't just -- -- term -- -- all about it go to so out of work into this news. You know -- natural instinct to cut out. I think that that's when errors this when he it. That he's gonna get really good player really good here. It's it's on the watch him develop and -- The reports for I know right now. You know head into the cities I think he's probably the most consummate the options are pretty excited that. To watch shares. In the containers -- to -- Joined by Red Sox minor league hitting coordinator Tim -- we've talked thus far mostly about guys in in the upper levels and -- ask you about one more guy in the upper levels before. We get to some of the guys who've been a bit further haven't really played very much up in New England just yet I guess Blake by artists is one guy who's. Who's interesting now he didn't hit it he he -- a great year I thought last year in Salem hit for average showed a really nice progress in terms of on base skills and which you presume would be from kind of good pitch recognition could strikes and took control. He did not hit for power last year which is you know which I think that. Do you see him as someone who despite only hitting two home runs last year is going to grow into power going up. That he's gonna grow as a regional power on the ball just sounds you know explosive off the bat -- -- He's one of the guys sit there watching it back at practice and it's allowed us to they keep this you know it needs to. Continue to learn about -- and learn about what pitches -- can drive. I think he is concerned right now you know solid hitter. -- -- trying to to be more consistent trying to -- the strike -- better get more pitches that he can handle. It yet. And I think that's where he's at right now -- power you know com. There's just a matter of time to see how how much you have that he has he has in the extreme and gotten really good hands. He is an exciting two to watch and anger. Is he more advanced on one Saturday he he only started switch hitting when he was I think a sophomore in high school -- more advanced still has a right hand hitter. It is a left handed hitter has the difference kind of leveled out. I think they're in pretty close. I think it's comfort level on the right side. -- really heard from the left and gain a lot of options and like most switch hitters. You know they're there will be weeks where those really good on one side and you know. The other side is not sugar and you know terminator two weeks later bills that are complete opposite. And so I think that's just typical for most switch hitters there's these are the same you know -- -- -- you know. Content certainly grew almost unsure. I think they're even now and they can do a lot more barrel control from the left side. And I think he's you know made a lot of progress last year you know -- -- bill mr. Now getting down to some of the guys in the lower levels I think there's you know there's certainly 11. Position player who whose skills. It made it an interest in conversation even last year as to whether or not he was going to open. In Greeneville despite -- he's very very young in men while Marco. How have you seen his progression and in the time that you had to work with him. Yeah. He's an exciting players on the work where -- lodged Plavix. -- industries. And fierce competitor at the plate. In this city's east on the watch -- some things that it can do on the baseball field. This special when he gets into the batter's box which creates excitement. You know we're just make -- part -- around around the -- so do you like speed that. He's a guy that you know this movement you know and fast and Cisco that depend on you know and quality pitches he gets to swing out. You know seeking control effort level. Not trying to be too much deployed in or create too much and stay within themselves. And to -- strikes on keep learning what pitchers trying to do. And recognized and in the secondary pitches. What is exciting player watch him. Artists artists like watching art teacher at the plate and these young guys still learning. It's very exciting. Source that a few more things together. In the same vein as a guy like why I heard he didn't really go deep in -- last year Mitt do you see him as someone who. Who has kind of -- -- The physical tools. And the and the ability to kind of hone in what he's looking for the -- to be able to you know exit to have a little -- -- the plate. Yes it's gonna passengers are deployed. You know they're just not gonna but he is. In his soulful orders that stole that they just don't see it as a you know get to the gap doubles here which need to power you know after the polls whatever you know -- stakes -- -- yeah it is not the part that you know. Yet they keep their own level a lot of line drives and yeah you like this -- -- accretive in the doubles that. He's another guy also really well from office Specter and I practice -- and yeah is you know -- -- As a matter. You know watching him grow our atmosphere is yet. Some stronger you know it was body shell out. But he definitely get the quickness and firm. You know Annapolis is -- you know be an -- there. He's intriguing to me because you know when you talk about the selector regressive thing he has the aggressive -- late he has he's an energy guy you know someone who like. Into that that's evident in every phase of his game when you seem on the field to kind of take notice. But you know if there's there must be some kind of balancing act when you're trying to. To get a guy to kind of control it but at the same time not wanna take away you know this part of his baseball personality that makes them tick. Exactly and I think that's were excellent hard you know -- at the boat there. They have the aggressiveness they have there peerless at the plate. And now you know just like -- ballots inactive. Control in that effort -- controlling you know trying to keep too much where you you know come off the baseball and not see it correctly. Brasilia. As part of their development as others in this state within themselves. Not China to overdo it. That helps with the consistency outs which -- baseball. We need to do that in control your energy. That's when. Things start or. Margo is is interesting is as part of this kind of like very young wave of interest in Latin American prospect. We're starting to make their way at the very. Lower levels of the system and you know guys who kind of who in spring training. You know they kind of turn your head make you make you take a little bit of notice. If there are a couple of other guys were very young in your organization who also fits that profile. -- -- say that kind of you know with the same tools but you know you kind of take note of them at a very young age. What did you see this spring from both Javier guerra they -- and if the eighteen year old now shortstop at a Panama and in what did you see out of rough failed devers the other seventeen year old kid and you guys signed like some rather -- can. So. And so now obviously at some churches that you know they're in just like -- it short plane again. And left to complete. Kara is you know he's more or less aggressive more -- under control has -- period here. You know because of baseball clock registered your. You know. Energy level. And composure and consistency. You know just it's just natural -- and he inherited you know it doesn't get too excited but he always in the right place right time. And a he's an exciting workers. You know that are very -- structurally. Left and at shortstop. You know put the ball players. Viewers what you -- and a gain more experience and they're. You know become more consistent. At the plate that -- search showed a lot of promise a lot of you know a lot of upside and a lot of people are very excited the city and you know that -- comes with a you know a lot of excitement. Music he'd beat analyst knowledge -- when you force and up until enjoy it and bundle in Virginia and when he steps in the batter's box he's a guy that he just felt like something was gonna happen. Canada. The answer it -- Scorching line drive or something in her excellent and exciting happen at the plate and you know he's -- the other networks we have to control his aggression in control. His energy center that studies and ancestry can. You know be more consistent with the -- making. Contact him and you know arguably young guys are first time Israel machine they're really quality pictures that. Bill -- balls for strikes and you know plus the philosophy. And learn how to achieve control control their second burst out for. This really got to learn how to you know he's selective more often it is pitch in and scope of our of -- -- and that was his talent. There are gonna spend a -- corporate law or change is tailored to lay out it has -- that. There's one thinks that future strategy -- the chance to. There's an art series he's got to work where. He's so young you know he would be high school junior if he were if you've grown up in the state you of course have a background -- amateur scouting. Do you are you able to kind of put in context. Where his ability is to just make. Loud contacted such a young age. I think I have been you know what this guy out or islanders couldn't imagine walking and you know and here. And you know show like that in in the batter's box. Do you know their Nolasco out we're all around there. You know machines progression continue and -- a lot of organizations. Very excited to. You know watching him as a and a high schooler if they're if you in the states -- you're right. Standards you lucked out Libya orchestra. Intel. 11 final question that I wanna kind of ask one of the great things about spring training is kind of the element of surprise guys who. You know who you all of a sudden show open there in Fort Myers. In something about what they do is different you know improved from the year before. In a way that just forces precious moment US hitting coordinator to take notice. Any of those guys this year in Fort Myers who you really just you know who you would seem being kind of developing and in one path. Last year while you were working with them in the minors and then they showed up in spring training in this series said well that's different. -- -- -- -- -- was by the -- totally different that is. You know they're they execute mainly long -- you that we reject that our school and came across this year. Think -- -- a lot of good things return shortly swelling out then he's got some some. So that's surprising power he did not use it just yet. But I would their surprised them. And impressive how its first couple -- -- professional baseball is made some adjustments to improve. And -- in particular answers the batting practice and some of the strikes. Those kind of entry -- -- in regard that our school yet very ya. And am really mentioned so much strides in the right direction you just hours. Ago that there that. Return you know turn nine. And and -- -- and that'll -- -- Guerrero and you know and I think that. You know I would say it was surprised. And -- it. If he stays within himself music. I think you can surpass some of the numbers that he's in the in. -- just consistency and stay within themselves they're consistent approach. It despite people this year. Yes he's interesting -- I think that when you seem in the box you get the sense that he's a lot closer to the major leagues that you might have guessed. Based on the numbers that he put up in his short time in Portland last year. And he you're correct and I think the same thing. Not -- right around the corner. In the cabinet you know it just. Just need to get over just a couple of hurdles. A couple of things in the box to be more consistent. And -- understand its willingness to look at better. Guys it's been it's such a student McCain in such Smart player. We know what you can do on the because it's. Such makes partners options. If I watched. Well Tim you're about to engage in a whole new but -- about to -- a whole new ball -- is you get to start seeing some these young kids. Playing in cold weather to start the season so I think that a lot of -- -- about become a cult that is is they stare at them. Tough early season numbers but it. I trust that you have you'll know how to get them past that. Yeah actually -- We nucleus and a -- but militants this first couple extras go out try to survive. We know you're better ball player here and that he. It this battle -- some of the -- Compete and enough things well. And obviously -- order. After the break will be talking with Keith law of ESPN about how the Red Sox system stacks up with that of other teams in the dailies. You've heard a -- -- -- -- point about how -- the Red Sox farm system is how it's probably one of the deepest in all of baseball baseball America -- at the number two overall farm system in the game but it's interesting to think about that not just as an abstract number -- to think about it in terms of what it means for how the Red -- are able to take on -- -- competitors in the American League -- how -- the Red -- stacked up against the -- against the rays against the Yankees against the blue -- when it comes to the -- that they're able to get from their homegrown talent in -- to answer that we talked -- Keith -- of ESPN beginning -- the question what -- the -- -- looked like in terms of -- player development division right. Now. That you got to shoot at the top the Red Sox and Orioles right back at that sort -- GAAP. Memorial that is our power outward. These big drop off the other street scenes which are all fairly close to each other. -- overall quality. -- action but each of the and actually meet at nine. We're here on the it is -- a lot of last year at. Street powerhouse Red Sox re. Elect for awhile -- our post -- -- the major Orioles were really early app are on that. You got we got a division. We work. More power or the cops at the NL central right now higher art. All really like this only the brewers lagging. Behind everybody else. I would say there are sort out my aunt probably in middle of the road. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- You know across baseball you're seeing this drastic shift towards a reliance on prospects with the exception of the Yankees right. The Yankees went out this offseason in the concession to the fact that they. Don't seem to have a lot of players ready to graduate to the big league spent a half a billion dollars or so. So in thinking about about the depth of teams in the American League east. Let's let's start with the Yankees where where are they in terms of being able to sustain Major League success with guys were on ground. I'm at the plate. Triple later and have read all the public club -- like you're under forty block where they have one. Legitimate pitching prospect in mortgage -- least Brian Mitchell oh they're better and prospects here catcher Gary Sanchez. The other race Williams but Oprah kind of coming up is when -- -- eventually -- cut to other popular which started the year here but they're all acting and expand -- -- recapping injuries you've been chronic problems. -- -- of those players. And you have to go beyond -- They're -- -- in oh well that's where -- start to get a little bit interest I could say about probably about when the clubs around baseball not usual. Pat what an interest in front were below Bible. So young and inexperienced we can model. Cut it to go away. He's been separation between guys to art to people. At an indictment of packaging. Lot of trouble getting dark crossed paths in the last couple years any explanation for that. A lot of -- it kind of -- -- injury. I can't label a pack on -- player out of the guys -- injury is streaky in our car actually eat on the other. And history getting hurt. In addition to make up there and they -- -- record against that there were they were taking. But that's just compound. The difficulty in the last few years the other thing is. They went on -- hikes XP. Went away from. When he's just working and that's an important member of the matter what. When he on your coal and -- data monies should what went and saw. It shifted their focus demand. Such intrepid -- -- -- their first oil hit a good make -- the very most buyer who I have a -- 100 prospects attract our. You can stroke -- eradicate all its -- bishop junior with their first pick -- -- round -- each year after that. Other guided rated. He's gotten into pro ball in -- -- worse than expected that there. So this is it's really interesting to think about -- actually because to me you know if Cole had signs. They probably aren't signing to knock or maybe they are but by god how different is their rotation look. Absolutely no question you know I think our our I call rate. Her and that's prospectors on that perhaps so that took twenty. Was perfectly reasonable Erick you keep it in Egypt -- not be expected well now but knowing yourself. -- You act for count it out I. We're -- it spent the extra money -- this the air whether notre. Relevant apps at all and and it could be included them -- well after the draft if you get what is going on. Its money. Impact for whatever he decided gonna go to -- no matter what. And I don't -- or -- ratcheted. It certainly here well after. So again not really giving up here but in a craft that pretty altered history. What if the Yankees. Today not me. Going forward and all that they could -- -- critical because you're not breeder you're got somewhat questionable make up. Bieber picnic I would like physical ability but make up that they don't count. So the other elephant in the room with them and their player development system is you know Derek Jeter getting ready to retire and whether or not you know -- he's obviously. He is going to be he is supposed to be there every day shortstop this year the problem what do they do pay if he's injured this year and be. Is there anyone who's close to being a success are in their organization. To Jeter. Yes -- that even check the month or so they'll. Successor should know how we speak -- not currently yankees organization. They do not have a Major League shortstop anywhere in the nation and you can interpret that is not including Jeter. And there's nobody -- I'd stick you know they should sign it injured on the play third base for a year and then next story you know where -- the next three. I understand they're probably -- interest -- Japanese that are in the -- That they currently out on cable and you know free agency market this sort pops up in an op. So what the but it's not externally evident because I puppet government -- there's there's no profile and everyday shortstop on any action that they are back. So the other interesting question to ask with regard for the Yankees is. OK if they're if the strength of their system the guys who have an interest in Ewing's. Are largely located at singling and below with you know there there are some possibilities at least when you're looking at that double -- team but you know again you're talking about impact guys. Being an a -- and below in they don't have draft money -- here right they gave away I think -- through their seventeenth round pick in my right. When -- when they signed all the history and things this year. How on earth to they get out of this mess. I think. My guess is. They're going to leave it out and collect essentially while the current roster out there meat packing with money. Until eventually going to every year we aired it any. Wonder old roster air. A -- half or more injury prone because they're older receipt and had a year where it -- goes -- on. Our. Why would come all. It it electorate right now and art last year in the war. And -- taxes. That's probably the -- we care. I turned to Brian Cashman the winner it's not like it looks. We can ignored. By. More recently. Got absolutely -- end the -- but certain at the player development I wonder. If they keep -- with pre agents caught it. They're giving up draft -- if not. Bonus money yet you print money. -- they're going to expand what you're the record amount in international pre so ought to like second I nineteen year old from. Latin America that's great that's exactly what they should it. A few extra money to you so. Here but that's -- it is all count this year. Just five times the number of impact guys this year and you have your guys next sure. Exactly. Your -- could something like that last year to -- -- just doing extreme things where it's great -- -- -- -- -- and they are. I can even more in -- you'll. The PP eight in the draft out of America I remembered on -- million for two million dollars or so. But these the Backstreet Yankee superstar. He finished up in the Atlantic -- never. So be the lest -- think he's related question that I'll ask is this is an organization that at one point was famously impatient they have moved beyond that but. Are you surprised there haven't been more drastic changes. In their scouting and player development given that. You know we're talking about an organization that the last Major League everyday players they developed were like Robinson can go in and Brett Gardner. I'm not such right because I know that -- -- very content on our our. Good for them their leader except they've done well in finding. And it would out like little running with finding. -- -- college pitchers who spoke pilot could believe it dropped on the all. Like a hero I'm really ignore what they've done wrong with those -- -- round picks. I don't think they're track record all that bad the problem is the opportunity caught that or ignore -- -- -- on exactly when -- -- out. -- week on the history of first round pick her everything after -- that -- At first dirty -- After. -- Mean that the pattern of 82. -- -- But it is -- tablet. To -- in the the first. -- -- back. -- -- One very high up side. And Central. Park early let him in high school pitcher with a good car all else it's a track record there is good. -- -- -- -- -- portrait of him or hear it you might as you pointed out -- here with don't like. It changed the strategy that -- expect now after the market and about it and got -- Try to go get war that that -- Tuchman keeps the obvious TN about the about the American League east prospect pool -- so you are a at a Trenton New Hampshire game the other team involved. The blue jays -- the blue jays in there in the process of moving past the the trade that they made with the Marlins -- seems like it was somewhat ill timed and plundered you know. Did them the trades they made with the Marlins in the Mets seem somewhat ill timed in terms of the caliber prospects that they moved. In in what they -- it you know given where they are in their Major League roster but. Where are -- in terms of the proximity of impact major leaguers to the big leagues. They're really got -- the system. With that tree ended march trading -- tree and their -- for now ready to got to pitching prospect Eric answer -- pitching tonight. Mark stroman -- Well probably the -- at some point this year struck deals the ticker at some action maybe not a point out -- -- Out. Egypt -- to back out now. I'm not sure there's a regular everyday player war and other starting pitcher is gonna come out of that system and an -- Every else that's really interest in the is down again in short ball up in lol hey that's summer air more interest in I don't arms. But all these guys are aways away you know war is kind of the exit well the next great. Blue jays pitching prospect. At. About half of it yourself or eat a lot of mechanical work in progress. Your typical eighteen year old coming out of high school. Even if you -- it -- discreetly probably art map work -- yours. Regaining positive value. Very rare perfect is that the -- way -- expert in and it would nature are finding that they -- a lot of high school especially arms they signed a lot of -- The Mexican Venezuelan players a lot of that are doing well and -- -- years. And one of the. The other interesting component of thinking about both the Yankees in the blue jays being having their their prospect being as far away is as they seem. Is the question of you know these are teams that could both. If you would think that for instance the blue jays would be a team that if if there were kind of a -- -- -- Frontline starter available they would wanna be able to acquire him but do they have the -- to be able to make a trade like that to the Yankees have them. Well I don't think either one doubts and we really somebody called the latest chip Reid called widget David Price when he got political -- to -- it -- stronger. That might get it done. On paper. But I think another team could natural topic here. And this topic is a repeat the blue jays had to that that would make it competitive with any other clubs potential offer. Yeah eatery in an even worse situation if you don't -- To -- in terms of -- In other race I could think come the Iraqis or eight or a bridge after. It it was one are we -- I -- are pretty are probably bill not to like restart it. It is great you know victory yet perfectly real soon I'm talking about what. I don't like eight and they treated for three guys who else think. Right we had a number four starter who is I don't Wright who was in AAA at the time of the deal. And they don't happen -- tiger -- at Indy -- And you on the look at situation -- -- were the price circular as it were available in trade. It makes it look internally date or we got stronger and got -- in them ample help people gum under control very cheap. Given what the record caucus wants young starter motor car so. Probably wouldn't make sense for them to do it anyway because they have young. Under control started pitching it's actually not in -- caliber but there's an art and not think compared to prices. The blue jays obviously you're an organization that does at least half. May be a way out because they have some very high draft picks coming up is do you expect to see them. You do expect to see them define a strategy that says it's time to get some upper level guys. Even picking that high we should maybe concentrate our resources on college guys. Or do you still see them as being opportunistic. The cockpit at this -- and emphasizes just got. At them and I look back at 09 -- -- -- -- yesterday not on their first round. That course more than just money buy back in time reader that that happened was it that you Wear on. To a 31 round picks. Her up. And what I've heard -- with those those two pick that they've got your uncle -- political -- It could be created but it's shipped some money eleventh -- it I extra -- someone's life. But what effort on primarily are tight and no doubt about that GM would like to try to post player that might draft. Has gone out until I actually sampled ice well -- Not hurt him about him going to see any college -- -- so with the blue jays how far away do you think that they are from being able to combined and player development with a Major League roster that could lend itself to. Two sustainable competitiveness. I think they're gonna have to turn that roster also it has happened this year and click where. To -- -- -- -- have packed it all want. -- ninety ensure that get in a while helping you now by. If it doesn't happen this year they're probably a good 34 years away. Probably at the trade off and access this year. Try to get younger players or -- -- They are -- ignorant that you could. Kick start the rebuilding. What what you do that it kind of resigned did you -- not competitive. You know it's interesting to think about how desperately important it is to how desperately important pro scouting department of becoming an -- fiscally important. It is for teams rebuilding to. Be willing to maybe pull the trigger a little bit more aggressively. With some of their foremost assets at a time when. The avenues to getting those draft picks and there's you know into really stockpiling international signings are becoming -- fewer and fewer. Yet you have to have to get the right when you make those -- your social opportunities. You trade a Major League accessed from multiple valuable piece of return. Especially with your apartment guide -- you know the dealer but -- act -- -- much -- usually back that much more backcourt it will have an exception last year. -- Michael that we had a vision problem wasn't clear -- you'd be. Here right. You really make it feel like that have to be sure. Extremely cop -- audit -- valuation. And yeah I think you know -- I don't know. Just say whether either those -- are being. In -- situation. What they get the right. It's -- a rate -- in a successful they need to remember that street pretty. They've gotten more value back that you would expect or or players of -- -- surprised. Which they're after the tree. Serving the American League east prospect landscape with Keith love ESPN insider and so as you mentioned the -- is be it let's go ahead and transition to them where how do you see them lined up I mean they've already had to move. One of some of their prospect depth the Jake go to reason for instance. Into their Major League rotation equation because. They've been doing with some some injuries. How do you see the rays how do you go to the state of the -- system and is this a team they they have taken some of their top free agents before. All the way or some of their top talents before all the way to create a guy like Carl Crawford. Can they afford that with David Price given where their farm system is in given the kind of diminished avenues to replenishing. The farm system is not in great shape where my. They usually are very -- -- -- a lot site under cheap oil for for number of years. Each week in here limited budget up other -- all right. You know they just -- Chris archer to act when Michael Sri leaking that helped. -- norm or are people expect -- to have a hard upper level right now. Doesn't hurt them as much and targeted they're much for those that. An agent actually -- artery to which just were pointing out he's. She -- the -- on -- she job that a cop early spring training. And all the sudden exit for him about it after a bridge average edged the getting sworn -- -- -- dropped from training. -- -- -- -- -- -- And maybe that the F cubicle or at least did not keep him. -- -- Like I should go to the -- Ever. -- consistently been a lot whether or come back at a low payroll in baseball cap on about epic. Every tree and -- what happened while. Particularly Arctic -- -- -- -- bunch extra X like. A lot out of the entire draft one area where -- -- each group because it. Margin for error -- Yeah again playing that retroactive what this game for them it has to be 2008 Tim Beckham did the number one overall pick in a year when. There was there are some guys in that draft right behind him. You know what what might actually -- the number one might or high upside I lack but he achieved its short. Ran well quick bat. Have an idea of late. And he can't develop that well at multiple running and herb marijuana -- What temperature what might or that your response quote. Retreat just smoke acting out the -- Eric are under or spoke I was out pretty good draft. And the -- got one of the worst -- leader after the. So -- -- the rays being a team that doesn't have a lot of its -- that's close to the surface in the big leagues do they have some guys who have that ability to be impact -- it took to make out a more significant impact down below. Not at registration. And ticket for why. It on a guy like that big -- -- could buy it -- -- -- all well. And -- a lot of these lunches and typically used to bunch them and trade between the big six player deal with the Padres. This thought he'd been -- -- and I a couple of odd oratory. -- Lee -- Probably would be at number two or keep -- healthy export a lot of I like that. Try to concentrate a beat the rap that would value but we're not be used -- style but where. I. Washington -- aren't you might be worth store trying to do more people expect to be organized around that they. -- Impact require that I -- -- I when they were regular draft and got a direct -- -- years and why now expect Pakistan to be at that level all the company would get you -- I -- Overlap. A pick for art craft. Yeah I could be wrong but I think since the last the last drafted and developed -- guy who looked like who looked like an impact player coming up. Was Matt Moore and in. And they weren't David -- terrible the draft class century and Eddie eagle Sri players they direct. I have. If you're in the big leap for the -- can back up at like -- at bats last year I think your -- it seem they even vote now. So that net -- that's all attracted about themselves and -- it could have made it great you can go to your mr. Not getting what they are on draft -- and -- consequence. He'd probably say well it's now. Pretty remarkable that there's still -- it because it -- like trade -- -- they are torture and the god. Actually spoke to be. A bit like. Myers. The tree she admired and -- Because he wanted to aren't you -- a little bit but -- -- draft. Continuing with our discussion of American League east prospect -- let's talk about the Orioles there in a different place I think from any of the three other teams that we talked about and perhaps even from the Red Sox. The Red Sox obviously have an impact -- Alexander Bogart though that guy. The Orioles as beyond Bogart he might they have the biggest -- the highest ceiling talent in the division perhaps. We agree with that they've got re starting pitchers are pitching prospects. Protected you could reasonably project is an important source toward the safety probably say on Bermuda one Karen got. Are you -- to. Not argue with that. I think you'd think that they have a tremendous amount of its -- Coming particularly high upside kitchen where they're really light is on -- -- -- players I think focused on pitchers in the draft and and -- so far the results have been very critics arguing that at some point -- -- and how shift a little bit just to balance that out so they end up they -- some work done. Coming justice John scope really the only one -- is most deeply. Who is intact in the majors right now. Yes which were great and are expected it to be against retreating. Into winning jockey -- restaurant stress fracture. Struggled with during the even keep it looked good in all we all be very strong modest -- Athletic enough to place second or third I don't see any way that plane that shortstop talks for a while -- I think it's sort. You don't need -- -- -- he's short stocks Erin. -- -- -- -- It situation among Major League clubs -- -- have more than one option to shore so to put its second return at that -- it it. I think he's got an idea that I like the swing -- the power I think she'll help. 23 years or what the next guy come out of their system on the position players. To help but in the meantime -- I had 2380 in force or at Mercury yet sir Michael right. Iran at a mediocre -- -- -- -- pastor. Even get that another big free agent contract get another crack. With regard to the three pitchers you mentioned -- men and Harvey and Harvey and -- on Monday of course where do you see them being able to make an impact in the big leagues. Carson will help them this year I don't know in what role. You wanted to get an extra twenty torture program at least a little bit of all -- optional like we saw them last year apple. In every game against the Red Sox yet that a couple of somewhat longer relief outings were slider which we were sore back at what. What can definitely you know where -- our country that you spent some more starter. Brought up earlier last year and really happy about the lighter -- much in the past I think twenty. Got better or am hoping it would get that organs were -- count and it goes viral -- He's the closest. Are you the furthest away assert your away well shot and I like one of those rare back to the -- you can't yours. And buggy question how should be back this year. Part undergone surgery there. I expect it to some -- and you're like you're workflow will be limited and not. Generally the -- couple of. And this is it's funny because this is the year when he would have been drafted out of five draft eligible out of college and he now to sign. In the 2011 draft. Actually it's about him in the world -- like when Julio the national black belt blow up that long after signing and people at his camp like what in the world he's only seventeen so it's somewhat like to be drafted in any -- -- -- like -- about. It matters a lot of people -- work that it happened on the 23 year old college product we and yet -- reaching they are. -- Bundy still accumulating big league service time. I guess right in respect here in -- oh yeah. After an extensive. Recap. Yeah that or will we are eligible probably -- or 200 in the. Yet not only that but he's accelerating its freeagent timetable perhaps by you know by by the end of this rehab price has settled down to about a year and a half. Think to what like at two or three recall that the -- -- -- LC and. Why ever -- -- white pastor Rick George from Europe and put them. -- supermodel or. Use option years. You're. All in all extra Walter your packets were retrieved the server -- here. That's why. You see -- it's a couple roster expansion that's for model or in at -- out. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Exactly what you're not -- I suffered injury. In the next wearing. For an option to acquire up and acted on the Major -- -- and make sure I'm -- and week out. -- -- -- With the Orioles again where we're focusing a lot on those three top pitching prospect because there you know there's a clear separation in their system I would imagine yeah. In terms of votes -- rankings of those three guys and everyone else is it fair to say that there's a clear separation in the division of those three pitching prospects. In every other pitching prospect. Who took -- why am I would probably put its -- We talked earlier in the -- Probably get the velocity of -- those guys back in 9597. With very little effort he worried that we cheat -- for breaking ball I. Got delivery issue. -- in kind of -- or what I -- longer stride and no response I'd better. Again I think he can project that a couple of our effort that. In the result. The -- Indicate the mechanical problem. But walking you are not many should our courts are. I'll probably expected aggregate per -- market injury -- yet been able to act like you'd think sort of talent. In terms of projected timetable she wants some discussion the other. In so finally it will turn in in our discussion with Keith law about red -- about dot American League east prospect in. Kind of relative rankings of this of the farm systems of the different team. The Red Sox. How would you describe where the Red Sox are in terms of their player development. I think -- and -- having -- -- right now they've got talent it just about every level. They've got position players coming up about to go back coming which scares you the most valuable commodity. It got pictures coming in the customers currently approximately stepped coming. It pretty successful in the draft changeover couple years ago on its own directors signed no interruptions addressed -- -- just well. It's an aggressive on the Internet I -- look like -- and other results as well. An exact -- were coming in which. -- Ryder -- Majorly on eat cock up over Jackie -- junior. Great site -- her again -- the battle right and it'll be Bradley. Broker they've got accurately or completely shall have. Which is just an important after the Red Sox are gonna get the -- -- I think everybody. They have acted to go get almost anyone. Look at the other -- with copper strong arm -- A lot of them are all sovereignty be -- -- don't stroke cops. So that's not apple lot of competition there are a lot of him fail or intolerance which would be ironic that actually started out. Indeed indeed a round trip so out of it from the Red Sox GM Mexico I guess -- for the guy who went to the Curt Schilling deal. Yeah exactly exactly and dark -- really get on each. In entrances and successfully got -- Colorado. That isn't natural grass and yeah like thanks. To them -- -- that you actually you know tight market I picture at a Colorado. Have some shall install. To be able to -- -- -- -- -- So it was securely through effective or not -- these tactics that our -- -- And interest it probably says that it make that are really -- Well with regard to the Red Sox one interesting question you know we did mention that we did mention you did not mention any of their pitching prospects is being as being at the level of those three Orioles pitching prospects. Let's -- that Jon Lester leaves the Red Sox after this year. -- the Red Sox have an insert. In in terms of being able to withstand his departure whether that means that they would have someone. With the ceiling internally and let's include the Major League roster and that. Who could have who would be able to replace him having someone in the minor league system would be able to replace him or. Would they be able to take a model in which it is they're such a thing as a model that would feature strong enough depth across the board and irritation. Did they would be OK without a guy like Lester who's emerged as their clear number one starter. My guess is what solvent it would vote -- the short this year what -- -- -- recorded directly they were about. In center with Bradley while we expect. Asserts that prop as we accept that we might have a year where where we were -- -- I developed the Major League level we along broad. And yet that is what we just -- It would not surprise to all the Red -- and that -- -- don't don't in terms. -- I know what the real one but we all know. We beat number two starter at conception at all picked up a -- She got out well in errors in its short. You know what we we look back -- irritation for your salary is well and you're apt orange were more. Probability that were chasing guys consult a thing could actually. Start your partner Asian. It will be time and then it's great -- Whenever there's an opening in our patient out there always we yet another starter. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Not looking like the map of walk the electorate there are -- -- thing I. Directly Alter your development but aren't able. I know that they're focused on the ranch for the players and they don't you Russian player to make it because -- indeed there. It might somehow which part -- What do you think Owens is ultimate unions. And it actually pretty good number to restore that there's the -- out pitch. That would make everything. But it comes -- security ninety or 97 which you probably have that discussion again. Don't think he should I. Read in order. -- -- up because. Your -- behind or to pick up the ball out of -- -- and worked at all. The football pretty might be. The but look for more development I don't -- -- -- and -- And by. Slope pretty -- -- trying to hit from a lot of so Al pitcher especially. On what -- But really just like that's where couples look like. It's also 67 mile an hour old and got a little bit harder since that there's I think it -- more here in order to throw that seem. -- salary is a little bit better. It'll be a lot ordered the fight will be a little bit better on -- -- that you cheaper eased restrictions. On average pitches. You know Margaret acting like -- be adorable two -- -- -- Ike at least number to it or not some. I would this final one and maybe. Is he when he in the majors. Article is probably in the next below that which by the way it's still really really -- Right not far off from where you know Jon Lester and I think there were times when Thomas was probably in the in the 513 could've been viewed as being anywhere in the five through. Fifteen or twenty range and I are other times during this period in which he's been more on the twenty to forty and still really get. Exactly exactly that's where you'll want to keep that I mean I would not rule that out at all or at the seat you very much that's words when he guys. -- couple breaks its way we're seeing on the idea that -- and our majors but on gallon over the course it's -- IQ your Red Sox rotation might state. -- -- -- In terms of thinking about thinking about. The red sox' current inventory of prosper weeks up to Bogart has the potential to be right now -- -- clear enough. And Owens you know as you say has the ceiling of the number two -- or you know in May -- may be you know there's a little bit more than that at times and his. In his -- sex -- which would suggest the possibility of being an all star at some point down the road. Right. Is there anyone else do you project is being in the Red Sox system you project is being kind of potential all star caliber player but say that's kind of take the you know the MB. I'm not necessarily MVP caliber guy but in that you know in that wave of you know one of the better too whiny third the position players are so -- pitchers in the major leagues. I -- like why -- in the -- has the potential to be. Developed. -- tremendously the last year nearly half or so out of what great burst your out -- eight year old very raw high school chips are. That's an Albuquerque. Straight baseball -- -- and like. Didn't have accepted that meet whatever you -- -- after. I'm Rick is unique he. Caught 13. Other which -- some -- US. We didn't -- out what you're thinking all right okay. By. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Can't complete the economy is probably not at the league at bat or longer this is the swing. And then he talked -- -- people -- more likely to read about is receiving. Well. All the anger we are. Actually. And teams are kind of coming back around focusing on board. Can -- -- it's right where. It's just all happening to other -- when you're hearing. And achieved from it all all the crime and of course twelve on. At a -- generally hear about players. Call you -- -- -- rapid development. From players -- -- be experts are surprised to turn a unique last regular are eager to be at all are because I can contribute a ball. My thanks to keep law obvious yet as well as Red Sox minor league hitting coordinator Tim hires for joining this week's show. If you'd like to hear the complete interviews with both of them in this putting more with both. Check WE yet dot com. Slash podcast as ever thanks to tireless producer. Had a good day as well as all of you for listening enjoy the outset of minor league games and let's see if there anymore no hitters from Henry Owens coming up.

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