WEEI>On Demand>>A Good Ol' Fashioned Hall of Fame for PED Users Debate with Villani and Buck

A Good Ol' Fashioned Hall of Fame for PED Users Debate with Villani and Buck

Apr 6, 2014|

Villani thinks PED users should be in the HOF with a mark stating they were in the PED era, but Buck doesn't want to hear it.

Transcript - will not be 100% accurate

Court Sunday Sports Radio WEEI. Here -- palatial. Center field studios. At Fenway Park Chris -- Steve Buckley. Can read Steve of course Boston Herald Boston Herald dot com. Beautiful morning for baseball and in fact it's -- forty degrees. And don't home a person says to me it's gonna warm up usually does from the reported I mean hearing that now from -- since Christmas. It's warmer than it was a Christmas I went video last night I watched you would he even did take the dogs though last night in it was a hundrer. Last night after the game two dogs it was cold and I felt for the people who were that make him credit -- a lot of people stuck around a lot of people did but beauty and the upper. Parts of the grandstands pretty much and the people started to move down and probably just huddled together for warmth. As it got into the eleventh inning but he -- last night that's why all part of the reason why. I don't wanna try to make an excuse for Clay -- part of the reason why I'm able to all looked at last night's well. Let's kind of wait and see because as bad as it wasn't as much yet absolutely nothing. Hillary's playing in the same conditions but some guys. He handle it better handle it differently than others clearly. The uncle might have been a factor last night I don't know eat in Italy while -- you follow Syracuse the wanted to and it was despondent. -- the cause of the retractable roof. Stadium for the Red Sox and but that weigh it down so that causes available if you wanna pick up the torch -- and -- -- in -- -- Thought that that's for you if you wanna do that I'm I'm good. Again I'll leave that went to him that's a legacy they can they can stay with mr. -- and I understand the need for homes in certain types of climates but there is something -- authentic about. Play as much I'm not one of those this talented guys is something not that up playing baseball indoors thank. -- but you know it's -- you faced over the Mariners and Adam Scott Bradley with -- -- from the Mariners was fun I made the comment went would stay with me. You said after a long almost any kind of wanna get outside -- play -- baseball can't -- -- and that which which was his way of saying it is a real baseball and by the way. In a lot of our list is I know it's very popular now to make these road trips and go see the reflects the growth certainly when there in Baltimore and Tampa day that the big destination but. For those socks into -- Seattle at Safeco. That the beauty of that is that when the dome is open. It it's a beautiful outdoor kind of cool looking ballpark when it's close. It's open on the side -- you get like the breezes and a little mist and stuff like that so. You don't feel like you -- into -- stadium and the door was closed app yet which is that. It is as far as I am an expert -- -- I think this is the only one when you get like natural outdoor elements or some measure of that when you're inside. Which is why state -- all the Gomes media is by my reckoning the best. -- vita it's 37937. A budget techsters were talking about Ortiz in. Kind of where it ranks among the Red Sox greats of bringing up Manny Ramirez would you put I gotta put Ortiz at -- It's great hitters Manny is sit out the the third Buick championship. The post season performance for David Ortiz that's got to lift him up and. Value to the listen Ramirez put up great numbers that the Red Sox and delivered certainly in the post season final four definitely. But that that that 2013. Postseason beaver -- that was one for the ages and he's now won three ring for the Red Sox and he's put up he's yet a couple of stink is there -- 34 years ago but. He's been an -- of presents an outline of the 2003. And again iconic Red Sox player right I have no difficulty thing that at all. And he will be remembered as much as a much greater Red Sox player that many Mary. Now I know you say you're you don't. Comment on what you're gonna vote for a year guy for the hall of fame until he's on the ballot and is name is in front of you. So I'll try to ask this question a different way you think David Ortiz gets into all of thing. I don't know if we -- working against him what's that two things working against them one. Is that. The -- get -- eat while. Through -- come reminds me of a third one but the that the failed test in 2000 theory is is a matter of fact. And -- you can say what we don't know what he tested positive for the fact of the matter is he tested positive for something in 2003. And it it does. Cloud the water is a little bit muddy the waters a little bit. And then there are people who just won't vote for DH I don't think that's fair because you need to dominate your ear or you don't in in terms of the position he plays. He is clearly dominating easier it is just no getting around that. And in that respect he he should be eligible for the hall of fame. But again people will not vote for David Ortiz because he's a because he's -- DA. That is ridiculous and I think it's ridiculous to an understanding lately you can at least go to that a closet and morals clause there yet or whatever it morality are excellent character -- that's it -- the PD that you and I can make that argument. Where's the argument it's -- Campbell for DH I mean it based on the third thing you gonna talk about. I use cases in the -- that case just on the numbers well honest to excel in other words it's not like he's eighty. And is it different at different levels of your ride. The statistical case has not yet to think about Barry Bonds Roger Clinton right -- He Ortiz is case in and of itself you compare him with -- the other guys have gotten in. Like your baseball reference which most similar -- couple hall of famers and there but -- -- he he's gonna fall well short three it's. In the war on -- 400 home runs -- and -- please get 500 but. -- -- Right now at least that would be it the third thing even with the absence of the addict who. You look at it got some people might just look at the numbers went back to say. He's not call eight player I think we've done in the regular season in conjunction with what he's done in the post season. Makes a no brainer for an outline and votes in my opinion against them out as much so to -- yours but. I in the count on that yet that's technically a way to put it at all that quiet. The -- thing like I just don't understand the positions that are -- for forty years literally been around longer than I've been on it and Ortiz. -- what -- so what did -- implement what. With fifty foot -- I a look at up -- yet it was somewhere somewhere in that vicinity internally our Internet back. Keisel probably past that but. -- there is something that that we look at for him for a hall of fame and one is how many seasons in did you get MVP votes. And he's gotten them like five or six so that's quite a record. Yeah yeah I mean being able to you want -- years as you know despite the -- not a real position to have that opinion. -- out but you can not like the idea that the -- your -- it's today. I wish there was an at the age at which the pitchers hit it should be nine's got you have that opinion and that's fair that you can't deny the existence of the DH -- easy position. The American League. For forty years and if it exists -- -- he's been playing really well or Edgar Martinez a team like that you count against him and for me and -- where we differ. I would put all the PD. You what I -- it all provided obviously they're. Statistics you -- you know you're on record anything you want Barry -- -- I am on record saying that Alex Rodriguez should go when Roger Clemens should go and I'll. All manner -- -- going even values wanna you wanna see you coming up to get caught twice for you when he's pride having people whom and who feels that. If you take away the years in which they did had not off -- now because his. -- I know. While and that people like -- why I don't try to on the front but people like to say cardiac Clemens started using immediately after he left though it knowing that no no it. Why don't with the but my my way of voting for these guys is deeply flawed but everybody's ways deeply flawed and I don't buy into -- I think this is maybe where you -- tilting at what words you know but. Yeah they all did steroids if what if you know what they did all the steroids and right now that's not my argument I I don't wanna get into this told protector of the game mode. But. I feel that there was an entire generation of players who played the game -- the right way they didn't cheat they didn't do steroids and is -- -- buddy of mine gave gallery played nineteen years in the big leagues and support though -- the public about the played for. Seven -- different teams he went to baseball camp at a Virginia knows at all buddy of mine. And I've known for thirty years. And gave Gallagher. Is is very pronounced on this welcome to the fourth outfielder I I had a couple years at the White -- that was a I get 600 at bats one year as a starting player to 67. I was at a power hitter with a pretty good defensive player but -- I always wonder this is Dave Gallagher speaking I always wonder. What kind of numbers -- have put up if fired -- myself up and it on fifteen pounds of muscle right and maybe me a lot more money. But. He's got I think four daughters. And he said I I could not face my four daughters. Knowing that I -- all the -- this is a guy that played nine or ten years in the major leagues -- And what about those guys what about those guys who who who played the game. With what -- bodies build -- and this all kinds -- goal although what about the guys who did the green he's in the sixties and seventies but. You know that that was a performance enhancing I. Reform I love I love you act that on along those lines and I've brought this up before and immediately get you know techsters of people say well. I -- mantle Thomas Dotson favorite drink whiskey. Nobody ever called whiskey performance enhancing write it enhances some things that your performance out of power electric whiskey. But I can only do you feel you -- but in reality you're probably not. Either one of those that was my argument. My argument is. Maybe it's just because I'm locked in the idea of looking at the Baseball Hall of Fame at the museum. Any museum is here to tell us storied history and you can't tell the story baseball up there are that's why -- wanna see him not only go in the but I want the entire story told in a short right on the plaque. What he was accused of doing what he did that take some of these the -- out of it for him I would imagine. But but tell that full story including the fact that he did it. And this is the year in which he did it and this is in part I can you tell that story he says he's never done those things could you tell what you know you he admitted that he used. A clear substance that he that would put what I want to the words flax seed oil hall of fame plaque is really what this comes out. But you know put that Roger Clemens was mentioned them in the Mitchell report put it. Barry Bonds admitted to using me you know clear substance that was the clear -- says it was flax -- he did admit that much. And and both of them were brought. I've read charges brought against them that's part of their stories much as anything when it comes to baseball and you can't tell that story. By just excluding them pertaining. It didn't happen Al salute their accomplishments and contact public and being again I would paper that let's not panic because he played pre integration. I anymore delicate you know Barry Bonds is not being a great player that he was because it. Because he'd probably -- twit at his career. It is funny because you you you look back through the years of baseball I still regard gave proof is that the home run hitter in baseball the great one. Yeah I know -- record's been been been broken by Henry Aaron and in. This is the second time I believe in baseball. He street that the brewers have in the Red Sox opponent for the home opener the last time it happened I was here and I don't have with me today usually carry with me. I have a ticket stub opening day 1975. It was in pressuring college. And I was there a football two reasons one -- he was making his second comeback. But I wanted to see Henry parents for scheme to the American League yet. And and I I thought that. Henry Aaron was the Babe -- of my generation I was so happy to see him break that record because I felt like I was part of it -- I was. A senior high school year early April the racquet. And it was like I was still like while that's my generation has claimed the home run record -- But in the grand scheme down my generation that -- -- on the idea Jerry you're the generation of fraud yes but. But you still look at B route the his very name. There is the date it's an adjective it Ruthie. The mere fact that his name to this very day. Would you say something of Ruthie in proportions. You know that it's the biggest and the best. Yep and -- group hasn't played a game in the major leagues in 73 years he's been dead since the late 1940s. It yet his name to the utterance of his -- still resonates I find that amazing. 61777979837. -- Quincy is up next on Sports Radio account. Yeah I don't know how. Who want it. I grew up -- look -- and they -- repeat these are well first of all -- they are eligible for the hall of fame right either that Pete Rose Joseph Jackson. They are I'll yes -- and that is it back. Well I hope you aren't. The right. Oh that's great that -- out -- and like -- -- Stepping. Up at the watch the patriots make it or not but why -- so. Eric. And why and what about how. Much time that he did it. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- And it broke Aaron looked real. The odds are. Good respectable reviews. All you're -- Bureau stuck in the eucharist and I'd like that -- -- -- I demand that that's and I'm I'm letting him finish laying the man finished I'm not what I'm not happening around knowing you whether I respect them. I I'm certainly not denying that they did it. Certain guys -- not denying that it is at all I'm telling you that I look at it in such a way it. I want to see their story told I wanna see. Both parts of the story told anything else a cautionary tale I want you told all of Spain because that's part of the story baseball he can't just pretend it didn't happen. -- Australia's they took legal and Jack in the net bodies became. You know guerrilla mr. -- you're -- and then there's no way around. I don't I don't know but I don't buy the notion that they were up Barry Bonds was not made entirely by chemicals I think that's a laughable notion. That it. It and look at what kind of -- play -- let's when he first get into the league and on I'm coming dangerously close that he was a hall of Famer before it took steroids -- some guys are just great players now with his longevity with the end of his career probably enhanced by what he did. Absolutely there's no question about it but you know take away from the fact he's still a great baseball player you in one of the for me the best hitter I have ever seen. It in my life you know that I -- some of these I -- Good fortune of covering 1983. College World Series when I mean with -- it is -- -- a Portland. And -- played Arizona State service -- Barry Bonds was the number two here in the lineup. Arizona State. The greatest home run hitter in baseball history but college it will be -- -- -- the with the tables data with -- -- McDowell he can look it up or even out a little got to play the Texas Rangers later -- The tables that is for the Arizona State baseball team or you -- now Barry Bonds. It's also six what 77797937. Jam robbed John we'll get your phone calls coming up Chris a -- -- -- Steve -- -- Sports -- WB yeah. Well but we've got a text line divided against itself. People coming down on both ends of the Specter -- Bonds a drug I drug using -- nothing else. Netherland here and there's guys like Chris who think -- -- bureau now putting those guys -- statue them. Or at summit better not putting those guys in the hall is like the color line did not exist -- all the history. Not just that which suits you at some leads more might sign a bunch people asking about we'll ruled stop what. Why why why do you have to put these guys at all -- to even tell history of baseball and that sounds. But there is specious argument because isn't that what the hall of fame is therefore is -- at a museum yes first and foremost yes. Is any news you get there -- to educate. Bill Buckner is home run bill practice -- Carlton fifth home run or let me give -- better on the Bobby -- home -- of the greatest plays in baseball history. Bobby -- -- all the time. You can't tell that. You can't tell what happened October 3 1951. Without putting Bobby comfortable while at -- -- with their neighbor I think there's no exhibit there's no there's there's cities and hollers there's nothing that yes. So you're telling the story by putting that in all right delighted to Bobby confident you know name. You want these guys in the hall need to be able to tell the story baseball and I'm telling you how you -- get around that. I want these guys in all of Spain because they think their accomplishments merit all the fame and let you cannot get -- to get -- lights in Europe under the astute already argument arts what -- you -- -- -- with -- these two -- the argument -- number one -- that -- you could tell the story baseball -- include these -- -- Say Arnold we rarely -- arbitrarily you honestly think you're limiting your guy -- bought it in your view. -- on you know view Bobby Thompson's gonna be all things. Nobody is getting on Egypt is that you that you can't tell the story better but Steve it's one moment first career and other should be able to Munich. Too it's weird that we can't see each other but. There's a big monitored it between the two of -- we really yet another. There's a -- There's exhibit -- that home run in all right. Op you -- but you want to put Bobby Thompson and hope they tell you don't I don't want we had -- -- I want -- that moment. A moment and in the ballroom at the -- that's right now with Barry Bonds it's not about a moment it's not necessarily about 762. Which I think -- number homer and yet it's about the. The entirety of his career. As opposed to a moment with bonds it's about Korea -- Iran it's about a career with Roger Clemens it's about a career. Yeah it all and -- -- I -- I I ain't. You'd think -- theory based on the output he's -- he's -- -- out -- -- recognizing their career accomplishment absolutely the -- which brings us right back to Bobby Thomson. Which I'm telling you that easy moment that you can -- right that is recognized I'll fight with erotic moment it's fifteen years the career years and I think really hurting I think conference. We can sufficiently tell the story of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens and opening and now I disagree I think -- what what what do you not know about right to climate that you would hope you are about what. I know -- out. Fifty years hit that hit the children it's about I have I don't I am if nothing else to I am. Always about the children -- consistently and -- out it and I also believe this is the college for an argument if you would like to. I prefer to look at it as part 882 part argument it be. Part -- news. I take all accomplishment in context because you point out. Not everybody. As much people like this Howard do what it. Not everybody's been up to its Major. League Baseball false statement. But you. And -- and the baseball gods themselves don't know who was -- who wasn't unless there was an admission. A positive test or some kind of strong circumstantial evidence such as the -- has its investigation in the suspensions became from that cell. All I wanna do is judge accomplishment in context and the same way that I don't diminish what Babe Ruth did. Because he did it prior to flights to the West Coast in black players in Major League Baseball. I don't necessarily diminish Alex Rodriguez were Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens for accomplishing. Things that were word. Eyes seemingly inhuman for for being among the great talent in the history of the game because it happened in an era. That is under the cloud of -- steroid -- steroid suspicion. So that's part -- be -- public attitude different arguments then that you can you put -- -- -- pain so that the kids skin Talbot got hitting heroes 6177797937. -- in Melrose is up next -- Or good morning to show lowers. Who. Chris I assume you might wanna consider actually visiting the baseball and I stand there. I've been there I don't think you beat up to something -- good motor declined only arrest the person with them yet it's. Pete Rose but topical. Yes he has and -- and the -- -- does recognize news. He imposed in the -- in the exhibit. My accomplishments of players. Isn't that isn't -- all the more reason to to put them in if their accomplishments are not tainted by the very record of Major League Baseball by the building itself but it's not all the more reason to just put the player and to recognize the player. Well because. Maybe for all the reasons why they aren't the government bloated and but for me the biggest shares all of the players are much better shot that the show. We didn't. Because they were -- -- by someone who treated. I think are you really call that. They're all of these boats were toaster they're article two years ago -- mean you're welcome report guys. A home. All three of them making didn't use up one of them here -- some -- -- got back I didn't approach the other guys. Never had a shot below what the 26. The 26 to twenty some guy. A lot of those guys out there lot of those guys are out there. Other implications let's get legislate that and I don't think I don't think Barry Bonds to roster spot from anybody. What I don't know I don't know but he's also go to my agreement that something stolen from him that you can never get. Even in MVP. Here in the Marty should recede. As you'll never ever give up back. Sort look at someone you've got the draw in -- recognize what these players accomplished sure. Do you -- short program there's been a member of the -- so we're just really subset. Well we built the building of the museum because they have really been a restriction that recognized as broadcasters with a plaque on the wall that you promote the give them an award. In the mentioned that day we should actually more about broadcasters. But they're not enshrined in the hall and -- the ball players were PI recognize. It's the same writers. Yeah it's called the did the it JG Taylor speak award right. So we. Are appreciate the fault I look at what he said throughout their accomplishment to be recognized -- can't the player. I mean by it by definition you're saying that okay we're recognizing 762. We understand it happened it's a record but the guy who. Hit that they hit those home runs the -- that actually did it. We've got to pretend that -- he is is not a great player was not an all time great we gonna do -- -- pretending. The what are we don't what what what are putting the whole thing. But I was I'm not pretending that he didn't hit all those home runs. I'm just saying he cheated to do it that's all is a pretending going -- -- you're recognizing the accomplishment but not player. We talked about if you're erecting and other words the hall of fame is recognized in the accomplishment but not play you have to recognize the accomplishment -- billion dollars and add up now you don't they try to put an asterisk next to. The 61 home run Linux into their and I thought and I don't endorse that I didn't endorse the then and only do with the now that point the point is you don't know the -- history on the asterisk. Went for it yes. -- sport like why they always sports writer who -- -- broom wagon with an autobiography he's still tight with an and we spent the rest of his life trying to prop up the image of the -- is -- needed propping up but I never happened at that ever put the -- on -- the did they did they put thirty years they took it up a few -- few years ago I didn't want I didn't know that put it oh absolutely. That I and I agreed that was ridiculous against judging by an accomplishment in context under 62 games I as opposed to 154. Jon and Kate is up next. John. Guy and I think I can put Florida case then chose steroids don't make a big difference when it comes to results. And a -- which you guys stick. First steroids have been around rampant -- umps 7080. Especially in the -- Saab division one college. A single a double or triple X file system rampant in the 80s90s that you know as well 2000. And yet the simple fact is if if steroids matter of the law in the gain. The top ten who home run record holders of all time they would all these people from the seven of its seven these -- You still have people from the twenties the thirties or forties hang onto those -- because Eric didn't make a big difference. And you know with the trainer now you'll need a job and not seen -- human beings are getting bigger. You forget you're the guy who actually would take -- those top pot -- run the ball -- Slot but they're not even with the steroids. And -- these guys should be involved people like bloc grouping these guys -- baseball is right now it. In and that is coming into simple -- say it again usually head. Steroids matter the pot ten hole. Ron holders of all time would all be sure you guys -- -- 7089. Either but did not because steroids don't matter. The -- global will steroids don't matter. I guess what my case why I brought you decreases -- oh stoppers that in cases Olympic 100 no no you've been talking to two minutes now I'm gonna -- -- more -- can't. No he can't. You you're trying to tell me the story don't matter and that it is dome so we can't we have a hard time continuing if you can tell me it's steroids don't matter I look -- when -- look -- we'll let -- -- second -- We do finish -- -- what the pac -- record book. I noticed him we will all the John John is on hold it in hang up on I had no idea where it's come all the -- records well we look at Barry Bonds Mark McGwire. -- Gonzalez. Sammy Sosa. We we go forty somewhat years fifty years with a one guy hitting sixty -- right -- with Sutton and guys hit it. In several do it multiple seasons of the guys tell me steroids don't matter please thank you very much. John your bottle -- -- a movement of my rebuttal guys. Out ball in the late to mid ninety's. Baseball needed the attendance spare expression of the strike in Portland or -- any forward for. They while metal ball higher than that I put my mind that Atlanta above junk why even a ball jumping out of the park now. Thank you recall he appreciated it at the Costa Rican women who have -- who won owning the baseball -- very good now but that there have been if we get back to the thoughts -- the -- I really don't wanna -- steroids -- -- there there have been different areas of of the baseball and I am not the that is twenties were -- in the -- to shore up what's -- I'm not ending the year and talk about how the baseballs -- wound tied it to boost. And it. You don't believe that. I believe that the baseball is is is is in every -- spear if you will but I'm not gonna no no. We talked to Bruins today Europe all we get back at -- Red Sox next 6177797. Citing the recent Sports Radio W week.

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