Mar 16, 2014|
With the Pats seemingly changing their free agent strategy this week, the guys discuss if the concept of "team" and "togetherness" can be negatively effected by signing big name stars.
Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.
Our number two sport Sunday Sports Radio WEEI my name's Dale Arnold. My friend Steve Buckley is seated across the table. We gonna discussion this morning and it it sort of built off of the way the patriots have gone about free agency in the in this offseason. We've begun the discussion here about team building and and you know moving away from the high priced big ticket free agent in in baseball the example used was the Red Sox. Not signing Josh Hamilton. And going a different route eighteen building -- and having it ultimately and -- World Series championship. You know we've talked about the Bruins. The trade of Tyler Sagan to the Dallas stars and Riley Smith and Louis Ericsson on board here. And their fans out there who look at that Tyler -- very considerable skills said he spit in the NHL in scoring right now. And we had a text -- who said that's the worst trade in Bruins history. I have another text -- a guy who I know knows his hockey. Says the worst Bruins trade all time has to be -- important for Marco Sturm and marks the port. Then again what we have ever won a cup with foreigners are top senator I think the Sagan trade makes the Bruins a better team that was the point I was making overall that. -- the better player. Smith and Ericsson make you better team. There are you know some high priced free agents who went out there in the first twenty or 48 hours of free agency in the NFL. Big ticket big contracts on my -- -- they got this guy they got that guy. The patriots go about it differently they want you know a 53 man roster the can -- helped them at any given moment in National Football League game. And they think that's the better way to build a team training -- was a reboot. -- So you need to look at that perspective -- you can look at players acquired verses the player who left. But did you see Joseph Thornton is part of the -- future I thought so yeah I mean I thought I'd I'd I'd I was shocked. I remember I was sitting at home when it popped up on my TV screen that you know the Bruins had just traded Joseph Thornton of the San Jose Sharks I was shocked in the another text and corrected me is right it was Brad Stuart marks the bank. It was still awful trade -- I was dumbfounded when they traded. If they traded markets that would that it may deploy its -- would have been bad I didn't expect -- like Mark Stuart it's -- about a bad deal but the put the the point I'm making is that -- it used to shocked me. How often I would talk to quote and quote hockey insiders. -- Off the record scouting report on Joseph -- was not good up to and including a few people who said they should rip that C office test. That was that was all Kevin to our will wasn't just guy and I'm teasing Duke Team did he did write a column I doubt and I strongly oh in the playoff series against Montreal on any Saturday afternoon game -- remembered -- At a time when. As we found out later Thornton was trying to play with her older cracked or broken -- yes. You know how to flak jacket on him and all that stuff. You know nowadays we look at hockey players playing through broken legs and you look at the boy's trek game yesterday -- mean he needed a man's size ice bag at the end of yesterday's game but it's just expected now. And they kept Thornton would they have ultimately. Ended in a Stanley Cup championship may be. And I don't think it's a valid argument to say now what's he won since he left here 'cause he hasn't won a Stanley Cup despite a pretty potent. Collider up and -- -- general today up but I don't think that I would necessarily say that they didn't win in San Jose because of Joseph for. I just think that. In -- you put it perfectly last hour. Team building the way the patriots are doing it the way the Bruins are doing it and by the way the way I think the Red Sox are doing it is not sexy. Darrelle Revis was -- it was an aberration in that regard. And it was one of those weird things where this guy obviously really one step at the opportunity to win. There are those who say he's a mercenary and to be free agent again a year from now and they may be right -- I may be wrong. He was he was much more of a Bobble than I expected they were going to be able to come up. I just think that -- they approached the team building process differently than than many fans would like them too which is go get -- up that big high ticket. High priced freeagent go get me that guy. It -- Tyler say -- Phil -- like us you know I'm just look at Joseph Thornton tested sort of replenish the mind here. 34. And a part to believe -- -- just signed a contract extension. Within the sharks this year he and Patrick Marleau both signed contract extensions. -- 34. He's he's that he's second all NHL. Veteran part to believe is that. But it still picture him as that kid like oh my god this that and put this to the NHL. The the most happy go lucky kid I've ever met play in the game it can't play in the NHL and ethnic in in the -- thought about pat burns and I was gonna use them and well 1997. He played its first game itself that's amazing 6177797937. Gyms in Medford HM. I don't I don't area. They'll so yes. The beginning to beat up on the subsequent. McDonald. Now we don't know technically. But you're a betting man and I am mister Arnold because he didn't give up that. When you. Before the patriots friendly either in the hunt and all that. Eight. My opinion about. Is that my response and I don't settle myself part of it was just not really liking. Belichick. Being a patriot thing in looking to quibble. But there's like no. -- tell you why you don't like him now Jim I'm just curious. Okay well. All again I can say is what I see publicly and is supposedly the -- I at all that you know on the tape the most of the players love. On that and really funny by the way to get a Malone so. But what. Larry yeah garbage. Am I believe me Jim I'm not trying to talk you out of -- and I'm not I'm just trying to figure out what it is the -- don't like. Again what I see in the arrogant. With the press -- -- press conferences and and interviews. Dick you know with you and and Michael and with Michael and then and -- -- that that kind of arrogance the kind of cold there. -- we -- a lot no lot but he mentioned Richard Seymour and you know what was obviously you know all. And look at the -- coming back. Hey Jim can I just jump in what second is our most of this is aimed at dale but I haven't I have a theory on though Belichick. With the media here and on the shows is that I think that's the belt and wished Dick by now. -- -- does it. Partly. Because he knows that's what people expect and I geeky right I honestly believe that deep down he just gets a kick out of maybe I'm way up the an -- but at the same time I don't believe my buddies guys like DIC laying out what. Apparently get him on the front porch with a couple of Beers and cigar is he's doing you know Saturday Night Live sketches I'm not I don't know that he's not. Is there anything like that -- not -- -- we come across. And I'm not the only person feel that you know he comes across the. Not I don't look at it in this regard Jim I'll I'll agree with you. I think he goes out of his way to -- it jerks sometimes. I think I think he tries too hard look at it I mean I think tries too hard to be a jerk at times and it frustrates me. Because I think at times he does it for no reason. And -- and I don't like that party either I I have to agree with you on that part of it. But -- by judge him on. Does he built a good football team does he keep that consistently good football team is he is he a good football coach. Yeah I don't let it happen now -- but there are the way to winning the global underneath. His personality art on any. But also I have to say you think Belichick was satisfied that he -- the consumable he got to the world food. You know. So light in canola -- -- -- he wants to win an election like it simply lack the the other one -- You know. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Well I I I guess other than Tom Coughlin give somebody else has won two Super Bowl and that time. And I don't know Tom Coughlin is available site an end at the follow up question Jim that I would always ask is who went to a -- for. All I'm not just say there's another way you don't have to be that how we come across. Its York there was -- -- -- -- to win. I'm saying but he -- worked out pretty well to dial in final but he had a wonderful bowl. Did buy into standard he failed the criminal group like less and less. Well I I understand your point and you know -- we we we can play all the little games we go back to the two Super Bowl losses. We can talk about you know the most low key remarkable catch in the history of the National Football League. That that led to one Super Bowl loss we can talk about. You know the possibility that maybe Wes Welker dropped the ball but he should have caught you -- won another Super Bowl we can play all those games sin and you know. If some and we will eleven at twelve ifs and buts and all that stuff. I. It's hard for media to slam a guy who has three Super Bowl championships as the head coach year and it's got these -- to others. It basically and though what what eleven year period. 750 winning percentage is just and and the ideal job but he -- wanna come. Look at I I want the teams I root for the win as much as anybody else does but right I would suggest that. Sometimes it's a little out of his control I was hoping his sake they went into the Super Bowl because. If they bill what will. TV -- lead. Paragraph any story resemble Bill Belichick for the rest easily. Parenthetically come up and I know I did and we probably all have -- spike yeah. And -- and at at the risk sounding like a Belichick -- it's completely flawed right because is. He he has constructed teams that came so close. Did that your -- the AFC title game twice north couple years. Came close to winning super bulls while he catches the ball carried a -- to catch etc. etc. Are you you -- and a lack of simple bulls on camera gave a spike it would Davydenko I'll also say but it will remain at it like a Barnicle attached to him. If they don't when a terrible -- and also say this there's a there's a perception of ballot check. May be fair may be not that you know well you'll never change he'll only do it his way the habits his way or the highway. And yet I've seen him change. The fact that that he didn't require his two tight ends to play out their rookie deals. And in fact extended both of them sooner than he had to unlike he'd done in the past with guys like Logan Mankins and Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork. He he changed the way he does business. And at least one case it ended up by him in the but not his halt. You know winning signed Aaron Hernandez to that contract we all thought it was a great -- my god this is not how they do business down there. This this isn't what the patriots normally do. You know some Arctic about a lot. Is that Tom Brady those who would dismiss him as a system quarterback which is an old argument that doesn't have a lot of -- anymore. Try to picture yourself being Tom Brady and and -- show opened training camp and you are certain kind of quarterback certainly doing things. And one year you've got an offense. That's built with. Rainy -- is gonna run a gazillion yards now appeal areas in a probable. And then a couple of years later you get the 52 bruising tight ends who just kind of just clear the path. Yet -- and I get this dink and -- Gelman guy last year whose. Main talent is he gets open. They're at it like that you appraisal fleet passes out. And it it it's amazing to me how. He continues to play at a high level what we're basically he's got to retool -- does this work based on the how -- I don't -- been -- is an old guy football but. I I concede just watching the games. That he looks out and sees different people every year not just different people yup but different roles -- different. I'll go home dial out. Dancing Cambridge heyday and I you don't talk more -- again good morning. That the really interesting topic and as something that debate with my dad and brother all the time what puts you over the top. Is it is it a -- a ball player huge step with Josh Hamilton and the Palestinians. Or -- Someone else -- complementary piece John Minko. Victorino. Who bring intangible. Pieces and influenced. Jerking. What is. I think historically. Sierra Club championship team and -- think about what with the Red Sox -- the outside world. I like her children. The supreme competitor. I don't know what kind of -- he was far from stance when it dear sir or plates you brought leadership. In a winning attitude. I'd say -- was teammate when he took the ball in his hand every fifth day. That -- you know the famous line about parity is a horse. Once every five days and horses. I. Or and I say that level of -- And what about what about it Garnett. To build a religion a really special players and they they're just aren't that many of them and if you're close like the patriots. Are frequently. What are you looking for and that's I believe it's yet to discuss that. What they don't go away -- would you agree it just so we're clear on this you know. Is important as it is that you have a complementary type players and I touched on a couple of times and joining guns and Shane Victorino and the great surprising season that Daniel -- LSU which we still don't talk if you look up his numbers. Oh wow yeah phenomenal -- -- But -- you still have to come down to. David Ortiz mean that monster in the middle lineup and and and Jon Lester at the top of the rotation. You in and Pedroia are former NDP is a rock you you still need to have those those star players. Especially based. There are at or is that is that sports specific. Limit the -- -- football. -- -- -- has never run into -- after a defense. -- -- -- Seattle Seahawks put the put this to the test but he's still have that great quarterback but I think we went in recent years that defense when soup apples. Sure felt that whale watching Denver get her -- eviscerate it by Seattle area. Yet thanks here are generational call regular -- 6177797937. I understand completely why you want the star and by the way I do think the NBA's different you cannot win in the NB -- county without -- yeah. You have to have the start to be able to win there and helped plucky underdogs who in the NBA -- -- is no such thing. But I I I do think there's something to the idea of of a eight team philosophy and I think you've got three of the four franchises in this town have adopted that is the way to do business. Now it may be. That the the baseball and hockey teams. Were emulating what Belichick had begun earlier down in Foxborough with a football team I think in in many respects they are. And and I understand when fans look at the NHL scoring list. And Phil Kessel second in the league in scoring in Tyler -- fifth in the league in scoring. And you immediately say double -- with the Bruins be like if they had him. But I've got to point out as I did earlier if you had Phil Kessel you wouldn't have your to your second and third line right wing so would you be about. Team I don't think you would be real quick I don't remember what year it was but you touched -- -- just now. You used he wondered if the Red Sox and and what you did is the throwaway line the Red Sox were emulating with the patriots did so within a a listener might. Take a step back and -- gaelic football and baseball the two different sports however. Just -- it back up what you said I suddenly had this white ball I remembered. Brian Burke I don't know if it was when he was in Toronto or San Jose or Vancouver he's been all over the map. -- Falmouth batting practice. But -- ten years ago and who standing behind the batting cage Bryant Park. All we've both known for many years right and Q what are you doing here and well but good to see the idea idea. He was fair to have to meet with Theo. Anyone -- Indy is very candid about it I wanna see how he does his job on received what he brings the equation. And how Smart general managers do just that yeah I mean doc used to always go down in and was in Foxboro with -- check. -- ballot check you know behind the scenes at at the garden you know talking with. With doc and with club by the way. You're your Smart if you do that. How are you do when -- -- successful and how you're get it done what are you doing that I can take to my sport which is totally different but those tenets would still work in my sport. Those of you don't knows Belichick and Tony La Russa were good friends yup and you frequently see ballot check on Jupiter when the cardinals are doing their thing in spring training. And I would love to be a fly on the wall for -- Belichick will Russa dinner. And in the closet to talk just what they talk about I don't think they're talking a boat. TV shows -- -- Kurai. And it it's it's it's always been fascinating to me which is why when you said that I immediately had the thought of Brian Burke hanging around Fenway. Well and I'd give you one further example of of the -- comment when the MIT Sloan analytics conference was here a weaker to go and I I. Posted I moderated the panel that Burke was on the hockey analytic and Don Sweeney was there are some other guys. Burke got there early. And he was sampling the other things he wanted to go listen to. Thomas to be -- And Mike Smith the GM and coach of the Atlanta Falcons they were on a stage with Mike -- he wanted to go hear them. And hear them talk about. How they set about building their franchise and what they were trying to -- and you know other guys I'll I wanna -- here this guy in the NBA and I wanna go here this guy in Major League Baseball. Because they know there are things they can pluck out of baton use in their -- I've heard coaches. I've heard that Pat Riley has visited locker rooms where other sports. And government documents reading a book a few years ago Doc Rivers told me he played for him and the next up and he said that nobody. He says on the talking -- banquet speech as much talking about after dinner speeches at the writers' dinner and stuff like that I'm talking about speeches the players and a lot. Nobody ever did it better than that right. Now we're not in this we don't know what looks like it sounds like. But when Doc Rivers in reference is that so they would be value in having a Pat Riley in your football slash apple salute while both yeah. Quick break right back to the calls and just couple minutes Sports Radio W yeah.