Dec 18, 2013|
For the first time in 2013, WEEI.com's Alex Speier was responsible for compiling Baseball America's list of the Red Sox' top 10 prospects. He discusses his list with the man who'd been in charge of compiling it for most of the prior two decades, Jim Callis of MLB.com.
Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.
Welcome to and our tradition of minor details and I am in this instance. I find myself in the strange and unfamiliar position because for the first time I have the responsibility of ranking. The Red Sox top prospects. Met for baseball America in their incredible effort in their -- incredible undertaking. Of ranking the top thirty prospects and every farm system every year so. -- Jim palace a long time friend of the show recently moved on from baseball America where he would always done these lists on the for the Red Sox. We're covering the Red Sox to mlb.com. I was entrusted with handling the Red Sox list a daunting task huge shoes to fill. And so the list is out and I want to welcome Jim -- backs that he can tell me how I did Jim how are you. I'm doing great Alexander and I would say to all your listeners I think the list is in very good hands and I've said this when we get apartment basic when I was. We think baseball American and dropping my -- opposite Boston University expects to amber Arafat said the specifically. But two days I didn't badly just to dispute the pastor -- austere Alex felt some sense of guilt. Prefer not ever letting you do the Red -- top thirty while the baseball -- kept it. I just I enjoyed doing it so much that self socially held onto it. You know I felt like are many correspondents. You're as -- quipped that he has that magic you cover the miners. It better than any Major League the writer that I follow and so. So why I had to -- -- completely on whether -- -- my side benefits is that I think you deserve to get this was for awhile and and I'm glad you get an opportunity to do. Well you know I don't feel like atlas with the weight of the world on my shoulders so you know so I am really interested in your. In you in your feedback on this you know because one of the things Timmy did this process really exposes. Is how very subjective in nature of the rankings are and how. You know there there isn't any such thing as a quote unquote right insert. You know it would be -- be a wonderful thing. It's you know it's ten years from now we were able to look at this list in concede that you know he did every player's career -- total. Lined up perfectly happy with the way Edwards kept in which the ratings went down but. I'm guessing that that's probably not going to be the case so. So it -- to me it was it was just a fascinating undertaking to kind of solicit so much input from. Inside the Red Sox organization outside the Red Sox organization whether that be value raiders -- You know broadcasters. Or or you know or writers who have followed the team. There -- followed the minor league -- very closely and had. Pacific histories with them you know I'm I'm interested in you know in what it was like for you to see this baby viewers you know the Red Sox top ten. In other hands and out what were there any worth where there any instances. Had scratches that you saw and before you answer that I'll just say what my top ten was number one Zander Bogart's I exposed that I really stepped out on all in there right Jim. Say a lot of guys say that it does support some out there is no right answer in due to these things although. They've got one. It was very it was about the obvious and liberal on days you can have I don't think there's any question but I think the great part is when you see these other names. You can really debate the order to vs three or four vs five at least they had that. They had one do before you at the -- analyst. Yeah that really simplified matters but it does so Bogart was number one and then I ranked Henry Owens number two left handed pitcher. I'm finished here in Portland number three was Jackie Bradley junior. Who became familiar from his working to -- it in the major leagues number four I had Alan Webb -- who also spent the year between. The target in the major leagues number five I had Blake's wife heart. Very promising catcher who's spent all year and -- a sell them. Number six was number six I had guarantee -- And the third baseman who spent the year between element Portland seven it was moved he bet. As many know him probably you know an obsession of mine. Who's put -- between Greenville and Salem. Number eight I had is Brandon Workman who still who still somehow qualifies. For this list even though he doesn't qualify for rookie status going forward but he didn't pitch enough innings normally qualify number nine I had Matt Barnes who spends. Almost all of the year in Portland for a very and very late season. Promotion to AAA and then finally I had Trey ball the number seven overall pick in last in the past year's draft. Listed as number ten so. To me and -- it was it was an interesting process to get there. I feel pretty good that I got. I like I liked I liked that the group that I have. In terms of in terms of who went in the top ten I can see. You know that the number eleven and twelve kind of gets interesting. I had first for what it's worth I had just outside of the top ten in any Varnado in Christian Vazquez. So that that -- that was my list Jim what do you think of that list you know where where my where my full of crap. Now I have ticket to get listed did you do did get to the Brit -- and things. And oil that was a baseball America for so long Alex that that. Well I started they would have qualifications for Dick -- list it was kind of weather. Beat writers and editors felt like I belong -- -- not you know you should be eligible. -- -- that we we we decided we needed a standard because it was not being applied -- simply by different writers. If we want to rookie qualifications entirely to baseball America it's he -- even tell you with the service time. Which got lucky we -- getting this information. As to disguise not a rookie or this guy is that we find out pretty much went away that this -- is repeatedly did -- trucks. So we we we ate very simply. We will look at the service time requirement for for it to eligibility which is State's 45 days before September right if it. Yeah there are pleased. December figures such a weird -- like yeah yeah every five days of service time but 45 -- very -- -- so that's why we did it and then do we we actually have eight Daniel Bard ruled that Brandon Workman did not have also object to. They did do 10100. Guys deserve our demographic that was kind of -- you get these relief pitchers who were up for the full year begin to its fifteen innings right. And whatever deal barge rookie year was execute its speed is like 45 appears hasn't -- 47 innings. And what a dynamic setup and it we just sit like. This is ridiculous to put Daniel Bard on the red sex list because he was -- -- -- -- -- up in bail -- us out his. Yeah he probably finished like fifth and rookies here voting you know like edit it didn't but he was sort of eligible and would have been happy to report. This there was that we there NN -- the other one before that was Bobby Jenks was yet that the closer on the World Series champions. Stocks and can't stop qualified for the for the Forrester analyst -- -- All right our wisdom was the Red Sox as a player. Our best hitter second best -- exposed for much of October and yet here. There were eligible that particular that we would wait. We don't take it apart ruled -- as Jon Daniels doing. That if you have stated if you exceed thirty relief appearances in the major regional on -- so that's a slippery or results -- -- -- back -- that. It is your question. I like to list a lot of -- -- -- indicate he's just say it exactly right what's what's foot putt and also talking about doing these lists it is. It you have to make a subjective call on each spot you know like I -- -- -- thirty. You wanna make sure you get the right guys. In the tent had some years to get daily nobler. Who -- -- based on the years ago media sports -- years. Well yesterday indicated they do the Portuguese what you gotta get he wanted to double want to irate. Do you want to achieve the right -- guys in the ten. And then yet -- you -- about the order but now it's you know pretty much wrapped about you need to get the Q what was it about cars. We go to number two and I actually that we've been working on a preliminary toppled under overall prospect list scramble deduct common. And so I I have -- and ordered I have my my top center I think it's seven Red Sox on there well I -- And that that is that that certainly was one of the more fascinating elements of this process is well just kind of underscoring. The Red Sox farm system is at a pretty. Remarkable place in terms of the depth of quality talent that they have when you're talking about Trey ball. Who was the number seven overall pick in this past year's draft and you know and some years would have been a probably a fringe top 100 candidate. Like he is number ten -- system that in you know it -- affecting -- talked about seven or eight guys in the top 100 that's crazy. You know actually this I think -- campus Connecticut eight guys ahead everybody on your list. Might this work -- yeah. Mothers work then -- have trip all by the tripled to make a list is -- -- Mayo had a I have to put in the list but I -- not about this case it would have been I have. Not about that my press -- -- countless. Ultimately handout packets and always had DA that the highest we ever rectify our system was number two. Which I think please look after the 2007 World Series championship and Buchholz and Ellsbury still qualified -- And I was I was very bullish or any other large they understand the it's just Damascus that was number -- that list jet Larry's set a pretty did. A pretty good top five Josh Redick in -- mosque or in there. Well this is fourteen. If it was a -- into -- was on that list you know -- was nineteen but it goes year he had horrible control problems. There were a number of guys to. Student went on to have you know regulate typically careers but now it's the idea is so diminished that kind of the parallel but no other -- World Series championship. And they look like they're always stick to be successful for years to -- my -- that they they they raided this Iraqi ground I guess. A little bit after 2007 the dog and it's I didn't read so what the results do I think better than anybody Alex is. Thirteen and that that -- you had a chance to win at the Major League level almost every year and that's obviously you're focused. They invested heavily internationally in the draft I mean that they do you mean we also mean organization to leak appeared to. The most confident -- team and the Yankees whether it was under the old rules or the new rules. Don't spend as much in aren't as aggressive as the rest sex aren't securing amateur talent and I think. You look at where the stated is to keep his right now with the Red Sox two World Series champions. And they have any number of young players ready to step and and the Yankees missed the playoffs for the 200 million dollar plus payroll and they had no young players ready to affiliate -- holes they have to go out and signed people's free agents. -- it's quite strike. Although I will say that it's it's also interesting for me to think back to two years ago because. At this entering the 2012 season to meet one of the most striking things about the read about those two organizations. Was that the Yankees. Had at least what you know the facade of homegrown talent they had in their spring training at that time a bunch of drafted and developed guys. But these look like they -- people to contribute in out of the bullpen some time. In the not too distant future may have some guys who looked like they were going to be not too far away from being Major League ready starting starting pitchers or. Think you know of the Ben Wallace is at the world. And the Red Sox at that point were in a position where. Their whole like that the chaos that they had at the back of their rotation when they have this kind of like it this kind of you know. This this competition of fall and former starters you know guys like Aaron -- In Vicente Padilla and Carlos Silva. Trying to assert themselves to starters in there are trying to figure out whether or not to. To throw Felix to brunch or Daniel Bard in his into the starting rotation that was all byproduct of their fear of what had been. This developmental gap in this real slowing in their systems system so. That the transformation of -- system to me. Over the last two to three years in three years ago they look like he might have some promise but it was all in the low levels it was all uncertainty in frankly most of those promising players didn't pan out. The guys like or at least in their organization the guys like. Like the Lars -- for instance but like the Derrick Gibson's. The Ryan Westmoreland of the world who ended up having to retire -- Italians are going elsewhere. There're a lot of guys who just. Didn't materialize over the course of a couple of years. It's kind of extraordinary that they really. Built most of their depth up just in the last couple of years. They write it again -- -- still mean we can -- -- we won't be the first to a lot of people Tutu talked about how great debt to. If you Gonzales Josh Beckett Carl Crawford trade or -- or -- and it got. You know Alan Webster and they got to -- you know mental illness so I think all play at a club I've ballistic doing that trade. And you look at that 2011 draft when they get real and they get Jackie Bradley. A team they get Blake's -- are demeaned those who yes. Yeah epidemic it was an address to an eight year before that aren't any. Yeah -- having just an unbelievable draft today it's right it's -- five guys on -- and it's not tenor from from one draft you know what were they really hit it big. The other -- to care about the you know the year before that DiCaprio -- -- but in the second round again engaged in the fourth round I didn't date. I don't think the Red Sox have drafted. As consistently well I was just about anybody class when -- early and people can step -- -- they did they put a lot of point to the draft and that's true at the same time. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Yeah again about aggressiveness we would keep debt -- -- political and there was an eight round pick him up think he's had to back in the city had taken their million dollar offer they they really wise -- goals and it was even that. Media outlet that reported dead that -- signed him -- who was not true and I think it would. You and I both strike all the texted. I bailed them out -- -- siding with the Red Sox. And asked him about that he's glad I don't response to me it was like you hearing their citizens -- you know well a lot of circulating in but anyway it is -- thankless Gholston. There was not a side bets yet if they even used the money that is cyclical that would take -- -- that's -- -- -- start consistently aggressive. Trying to bring in talent which. It without it would -- I think it goes back to you ever talks about how great their 2005 draft was with. With Ellsbury and Buchholz and that's five takes before respect rattled -- and basically. But value also if you talk to that -- Jason McLeod who was kinda expect that other people with the Red Sox. That's give it to Pedro Alvarez of fourteen -- around it inside and that's the year's day they almost had just smoking. A lot of not taken him. Inside of rightly Bibby to Jason Castro who had a very good these gases units out of a -- keep. I wanna say either talk or or very strongly considered taking domestic recently insisted Jacoby Ellsbury is -- -- -- got like five guys wannabe first round -- three years later. Ever -- aren't sure if your site if I'd brought deceptive -- again today. They get a degree drafts. In eternity they got there had been a lot of yes the Red Sox felt like like we identified these players. We knew how to get there were and we didn't do everything to decide them. And then have to really think your mindset change that year. -- -- -- the rules a little different it is just that which you want spoke with the support ownership. They -- -- today yet they went after guys and if if they believe they they believe they're scanning process which is. Yeah I actually get to god from Jason -- DL and and and and pretty consistent. But I believe that process and that process tell them this guy you know is worth -- you know economic dollars they'll they'll pay them and it will build bridges and people that it was the fifth round pick gets a little first round money you mentioned. You know Ryan Westmoreland to. You have done unfortunately had -- the brain tumor director's career could be brought oral looked like you need it was very early like he was on the way to and to possibly become this superstar. Yeah -- sure it was actually really interesting idea I sat down with Westmoreland or you may be in in September and you know he's he's very much at peace with. Which word is but it it is amazing when you know they -- had to. Both Westmoreland in cinder Bogart's up in the major leagues this October it would have been pretty staggering people I mean. That would have been bad that would have been a pretty. Potentially epic pairing of young talents. Right. Bale -- exactly abandoned that such. At least I mean spirited that there -- more -- story is that one way -- to -- expected to denigrate player which is not -- bit. At least that part of stories for a guy is gone through what he's gone through. States seems like these can be able to leave a pretty lead pretty normal life span and the out they could have been a lot worse. Absolutely but it does so getting into the getting into oh and by the way one other thing that your that your mention of the 2005 draft. Raised is how different would it would the world -- if the Red Sox and actually ended up signing Pedro Alvarez that would have been. A lot of dominoes over the course of time which is a game that we can always get -- Met setting that aside so. Two and three we both had Bradley and -- though our orders for our orders were different. I'd like the fact that you know Owens. Even though he's only made it up to double -- and even though he has reason he has kind of higher walk rate than you would certainly wanna -- I think that this is a guy who has a great chance of figuring it out in making the adjustments. Who who seemingly has not body control despite having this huge frame it as a become stronger he's really going to figure out ways of of kind of narrowing into the strike zone. And executing his pitches in precise fashion. In who has a great understanding of what he's doing he has stuff that gets swings and misses. With his fastball and his change up -- times when he as a Major League average curve ball which you know is and on those days. That the addition of that too though that two other pitches that he has as good swing and miss offerings they are. Allows him to potentially dominate so I don't I don't see him as being like kind of the necessarily like the you know that Justin Verlander -- by any sort of the imagination. Or even so the Cole Hamels had but I see him being one of the better. Having the potential to be one of the better left handed starters in the game. And to meet debt ceiling. Is greater than what Bradley might bring. Even though I think Bradley is going to be a really well rounded and very good player who's able to make a very positive impact on championship caliber team. For many years to come so even though I think that Bradley has less questions about probability I had Owens slightly ahead based on that. There and then if this as a classic example quiet it's booked on a daunting to do these lists because. You have to get can be critical Jeb Bradley had a goal and I was close. Hey hey hey hey wait 270 you have to compare. These pitcher vs position player got he's spent the big leagues -- vs the guy who is just got to double way. There's not a whole lot of technology comparing. -- 22 guys the same position there or even into killers to each other yet entirely different animals and if you get feelings vs Florida. I agree with everything you say about -- -- Mike Dee. And I think based on his track record in these -- to call him the most unhittable left hander in the minor leagues right now. You know based on what he. Title I would have that I I would probably have gently put on a business card or something tyrant. Radio initiative that is so yeah it's 68 Alex and he got a week until Christmas and we need to practice here that support an Iranian I appreciate that that's because exit deal. I went back to port those two guys to. I won't -- or -- about don't agree with all that in the controlled gotta improve to the steps there. I what is being a slight amount potty yet and it took these guys are trying to separate of his or -- -- -- -- -- properties not. That's really overpowering he used to. Well contraceptive access have to keep -- got -- 86 miles an hour but he's not. It's delicate racking up all the strikeouts throwing 95 consistently with an unbelievable break it all right does not -- that guy. Yeah I know I want I were I'd worry a little bit like it is elect might like a table one Major League hitters are tripling -- be able to lay out -- double the -- Well it would Jackie Bradley. Note to mister -- Jackie Bradley I think it crossed my mind -- -- also that it is not as much that baseball stand. It was much as vice president to be it will go to conference in most years. It was such Jackie Bradley tears around my six year old -- And -- fact is they want in Omaha. These turbulent Haiti and how to check Bradley nowhere to run to where the ball going to be -- they can really Japanese followed Jackie Bradley knows that the guys unbelievable defender is what his guys you can. In the balls off the back kind of put his head down a runway needs to be looked up. And catch the politics it would very easy and as always I mean I'd I'd. I knew he was an unbelievable defender but he but he has impressed me at my six year old son is he really -- to casual baseball and apple on August 13. It was able to -- deception are watching educated that he had this -- Audit itself or -- -- the I think Jackie Healy is pretty high to about six of potential gold -- Center fielder I think he's gonna be high on these guys. Advocated it and execute all right guys. Actually say keep. It is not as fast as Jacoby Ellsbury but I think he said I don't think there's any question about sending me if you -- people graphic the better defender of the. Can appeal right now yes again. Better to -- right now and Jacoby Ellsbury when a gold glove. Yeah age -- pretty good and I hate it not to steal many bases as Jacoby. But I think it along to get up higher on base percentage and Jacoby and with the exception that 132 home -- year it might even have a little bit more topic to develop itself. That is just crazy and it's not a lot I think to be a better player of the Jacoby Ellsbury in the. There is -- that's pretty good. -- anyway this until it. I think -- there's no longer have to you -- what makes despondent. I mean I know BA could create honesty kind of see a guy stack up the case. What got to want that -- -- that definitive. Would pay a price that would agree to you know what I have -- five points higher ceiling as I said title little. Little less risk involved which Jackie Bradley so wanted being. Can do roughly the same grade if you if you -- factor but aspects. I I agree that that's precisely how -- -- that's precisely how broke down I'd like affected Owens has has a pretty good ceiling I do have. I do have some small concerns with regard to some some -- with with Bradley. They'd make you wonder a little bit about the on base percentage including the fact that I think it is he sold out his approach a little bit this year. In order to get to a little bit more power and that's something that he's acknowledged as well but. I think that he's a very very good Major League player. And I think -- you know one with great probability. As you point out so out of etiquette kind of into more to meet those were pretty clear about that conversation about -- three was pretty clear. -- there'll be other people would throw up their names into the mix. I doubt but it I think that it ultimately it was you know which have been there should be Owens of Bradley to him and the other guy gets three that I get to the kind of web stir I had Webster four -- which is he's in some people's eyes a little bit aggressive based on the fact that he got his lunch handed to him in the major leagues. And gave up a ton of home runs. And then number five I had -- heart and number six to -- number seven bet. I kind of viewed that cluster as being an interesting and almost interchangeable one. In which it was really difficult to separate. Two separate one guy is being as being clearly you know as being clearly superior. To the rest I can fit. Webster to me is the guy in that group who has -- ceiling it's unlike any other aliens and like any other in the Red Sox top ten except for maybe Trey ball in Bogart's. Because his stuff is unbelievable. Even though his performance hasn't matched it. I agree I had this poor guy Eric I like is that we're -- and are working on our I'm hundred mlb.com and in my own personal list. I -- for those guys -- from number 47 and number 59. I went. -- Webster's why hard but keep that I had to be a hard time kitty -- agent Brooke appreciate that regard here with that. The police why are you cannot use western underlined that he has these starters said. A Buster Posey tool of the things he's going to be about eight and that I thought -- clearly established. Educating had to beat number seven on the West -- number seven. Every year's semi pro ball and I even when that agreement numbers it. Yeah there was there was a -- there was a chance for awhile there before Pete forum I I've wrestled a lot with -- vs bets in fact. At the at the six and seven spots or frankly the 567 spots with with swipe card in his in his -- Buster Posey starter toolkit. But in the end I felt like. It's a key I think is that was an interesting when it really was very close between him and that's for me in that had been I had been wrestling with him for so long. I think that unquestionably has a higher ceiling. Very accurate and eventually TD. We just haven't seen him for that long but you know putting those two guys side by side in the Arizona Fall League. I think that from a scouting perspective I think it almost anyone who looked at those two guys over that sample. You know playing on the same team for the first time said are you -- I would rather you know bad looks like looks like the guy with a better tools. Up across the board a guy with plate discipline the a little bit of pop which is something that you key was lacking in the AFL and frankly has has liked -- -- -- something that's been missing for a large -- -- career. And you know and that's going to be a much better runner he's potentially impact a defender worst -- can be OK at third you might be better -- that. At first base possibly. He might be okay in in left field that if that's what the future holds. But I -- has since we middle of the field I just don't know after. Such a mediocre two year and a debut in lol. Whether or not I note that -- that is going to be able to seat those tools translate on a consistent basis whereas with which teeny. I vote a pretty good feeling good I'm looking at a guy who -- a very high chance of being a 300 hitter with a like let's say 375 plus so BP. -- like -- -- and all that yeah I put lucky sevens on my own. -- socialistic I was breaking out of my top hundred list to the second reason I think yet. Yet that is totals are all there I agree that all that I just because he'd only done it really for one year. It is our guys have more track record. -- put an adult I and I create rich keep price has the highest Florida. Yes -- but it's rare to have a guy in double lay who has who has like low and who has low uncertainty. But that's that's precisely where he has he's you know his his bat to ball skills and his strike zone. -- really are you know make make it pretty clear you know there's a Major League this Major League player in probably a starter. Yes I have put forth that I usually get disgust for spilling over Florida I wanna put enforce a mile a -- I believe any distinction that I think he'll be ready I don't have to place third for Boston now that you kinda take out the equation you look at what his ability is. Not with the team they played him in terms of judging is worth between. We would Bogart's in middle Brooks he be tried doesn't want up to third but I don't think it -- -- make him at least an average defender. -- third. I'll be illegal club over there could be an average runner but he runs the bases really really well -- -- smarter. And I just stick he's so good. He called and I think very quoted diary time at the magic barely can just. I can do whatever you want to put the bat head. And he's he's big and strong and I think you'll want to hit for power about -- -- people say that about. These guys who appear hitters who have -- power but I do think the towers collapsing to come yet in Webster. And he's fascinated me I think Alice -- fascinates you. They execute you got this conundrum of this guy he's got unhittable stuff. But at times has also uncontrollable -- man I love you don't want I think it was that you're -- American -- Well I think EU political -- also been watching Al Lester it directly to make it out of body experience clay and LA you know people they need -- be forgotten that we play it looked so lost at times in in the big leagues in 2008. Danny de L horrible year. After he -- briefcase to. Six point 75 ERA one of the worst at one of the worst performances ever by a Red Sox starter. Yeah yeah NL Lester B -- figure of seven homers and 38 other intercepting it is hard to get it. And really strove for a strike if he's still averaged about seven strikeouts tonight giving you know he is getting at two states he was still listen that's that's. With his changeup only which was interesting but I mean yeah I have nothing against the tigers where you have like. Fifteen or twenty swings and misses with his -- alone. Yet it's just ridiculous they also -- peace -- has one of the better maybe there are two big guys in the minors seeking combined velocity. And movement on a fastball like he can't. And I and I -- think the upside their right. Yeah I guess in nitpicking I add him -- -- not been down from -- for nearly staged -- -- mile list just got wonderful ever be able to really harness that stuff fully bit. And the chance that he could be like a middle innings reliever like because there is just be there is so little predictability about him based on. What we saw in in 2013. And we have yet to see him dominate which is the you know which is what holds them back because the stuff is is incomparable. Yet -- it will likely Egypt if you can just pretty could have averaged control. These can be protested. He's athletic. He's got to really get bad. I think you know dead I think but Blake -- -- what two homers this year and hi David what's funny is if you go back -- -- -- -- what people were saying about him. When he between soft -- G-8 years people wondered how physical he was how much power he was really gonna have in fact that logic also baseball America -- about a year ago. Talking about you know -- you -- -- buster last five picks in the 2008 draft a look back it would. And likely cut weakness in the summer before I usually talked to a number of top a value waiters. And it was I think I would stay I think it -- busters like the twelfth or fourteenth best player in the tapes as -- Japanese that's some outlook for all the talk that perhaps prevention. Her story -- value of these lists by middle -- him. -- -- -- -- -- don't look at it a snapshot and I mean they they are what they were at the -- and the -- that it can actually and he's athletic but he was that you remember it when he first into the big league. The word was depressed which he -- really trust him as a receiver right as a -- Soviet you do decide to believe -- Yes exactly and noticing -- their questions -- -- kind of a lanky guy how much power he could have put I want back it would anywhere and I'm not gonna name anybody by name bit dark numbers of the cops got leadership and about waiters. Do like Robert Stockton menu listeners is ever heard -- the more than Buster Posey and in fact the funny thing is that. Our budget is dedicated to kind of began the one guy who was -- in the tables for Buster Posey. They actually Jason -- the Red Sox he said I don't want pick in the draft -- -- bust 'cause if you want to bust because they're but he also kind of like. In. You know ideal to have these questions that accusation that was in the adjacent bit. You know they couldn't swallow hard -- update I mean the -- there the defense has come along extremely athletic they aren't scared. Yeah I think his -- to be pretty special catcher in. They're talking about it. -- needed treatment guys every every organization -- values -- all time new topics like kids. In every organization lesser prospect or anybody else does and it is basic individual I have focused on the ceiling and I think these guys can reach potential by the you look at the guys were talking about means get a Bogart's. What sort of future superstar clinic operates at age -- they would -- like not immediately get that sort obsessed with practically get that experience in regular season. -- just it would a World Series and looked like a veteran. He's got you know the guy that you know when we -- this I was -- of the political left in the minors Henry Owens. Jacket rallied to blow up high on base percentage that are fielder. -- -- to be a Frontline starter with that -- Clark could be well above average catcher. Two key is tremendous pure hitter protesters hitters or the miners in. And what -- best. Blocked it into the settled into the classic to keep that's. As a basic lack of Tibet has the best set of tools any violate -- basic -- to China right there's there's there's nobody to let me it would respect yet we -- see and do it again. Being -- -- of Floyd I mean. This guy who has been an eye coordination of the bat speed hits for average he's got. Double digit pop he'd take it easy plus were under these athletic enough to be a -- the standard and number position. Players in the minor leagues is here with 400 on base percentages. At least double digit homers and at least thirty steals. Those three guys in you know obviously. Putting together such listens very arbitrary but I was -- Byron Buxton and George springer and that's it you know there aren't. That's that's that's intriguing when it comes to guys in just thinking about like -- you about what their ceilings might be in terms of an of -- -- schools that. Am not seeing it that they had done nothing yet he's going to be better than George spring board to -- applicable. Look at that straight up cooperation summit two guys and I have pretty much equal -- says about those guys are getting hit it means a guy like George Brett sloppy swings and misses the time. Thank you may have if you want -- -- more arbitrary. And and do you guys to walk 25 times when they struck out -- to that's finally got a list. It was actually funny early in the year when -- hadn't started hitting patent you know in part because he had a terrible batting average on balls in play and soft am I. He hits the fascination for me with -- Q but certain April when used this guy who's hitting 150 but it like at a certain point he had a sub 200. Batting average but OBP that was above 400. -- started it and it's hard to beat this really interesting question of how many guys can ever do that you know what does that say about a guy's about a -- -- just -- What interesting thing was did it was that -- -- of the Red Sox bench coach. Actually was one of the one of the only guys in Major League history whoever had a season in which his in which is yet a sub 200 batting average. And more than doubled that with his OBP it was like yeah that was because they couldn't hit a fastball with the death with the -- I'm in my career. Ed students going back. -- yep they're there are some really interesting strange things that happen with bats when you're talking about how much more he walked. Been struck out -- that that part at least is kind of consistent with what he did with lol. He's yep. I've spent a year trying to make sense of -- -- you know ends. There are some people who I talked to some evaluated straight talk to. Who had him as high as number three in the Red Sox. So that should tell you something about you know about how how highly regarded his still that is. Others had him as low as kind of being in the double digit prospect ranks because he just didn't have that kind of track record but interesting. Interestingly get those guys. Says there today and in I think the next quandary. After that is yet daddy had to deal Brandon Workman in -- is -- for reasons we discussed but I mean you have to stack up Matt Barnes. -- Anthony were not it's got the number seven overall. Pick in the draft to the barely played it yet he pitched seven innings pro ball out is yet defect all of those guys and against one another. Yeah and this is something that you and I talked about him in past years in this very podcast but it would come to taking a guy like. Like Kasey Keller Ryan Westmoreland who basically had virtually no pro experience and where do you rank them. In -- in the course of this now in the past you basically have them side if memory serves at Westmoreland one and Kelly to. At a time when Kelly's only professional exposure was like a couple of games playing shortstop in Westmoreland had yet -- a professional game. I don't think that's -- I don't think it would but Ryan Westmoreland number -- -- number one. The year after he the last little -- -- -- I had to put but I can't the first year that those guys were drafted. Might put Casey Kelly sixty and Ryan Westmoreland -- and your nation although I'm. I want you back in my list in my I had -- hitters and what Michael burden to nick back announcer reading a barge for. Josh Redick by the energy each it is -- what was -- There are some guys they don't look is great retrospect. But also some guys have gone on to have -- troops. Yes indeed but yes but it's the -- relative inexperience thing like because in past years I know that certainly -- Guerrero -- to you know temporarily. Detonated in the top ten -- You know and Trey ball looks like 88 considerably better has certainly has a considerably higher ceiling than does DeVon -- aero. -- even though I like you know Marrero I think his future everyday shortstop. That's still only gets me into the teens in the Red Sox system in terms of the overall ranking. Which is again staggering. But ball looks like today. Ball represented considerably more interesting prospect just about everyone. But there's this great uncertainty because the high school left hander who's a billion years from the major leagues. And but if you're looking for a guy you know for the guy who could follow Jon Lester is being the next number one in the Red Sox system. Then. You know you could say there's -- may -- -- -- to put blog together and he could do that that's a possibility. And you know you can it. But beyond that. You're kind of looking to I don't think that Owens is is kind of on has has the ceiling -- Lester does. And I think that Trey ball might be the next guy. It he's still only number ten in the Red Sox system even though. You know we we -- to see a lot more in injuries obviously can play. A significant factor I think that just that the variables of of figuring out health is a professional. And you know your stuff can change so much -- but tree. You know was drafted as a guy with a mid nineties fastball by the Red Sox. In 2012 and this year and lol he pitched with kind of like in 1992 Mosley mostly sitting around 1991. So you know what if that happens -- ball then. It becomes really difficult to project him as as being in the top few prospects for the Red Sox but you know but -- that debt ceiling is pretty impressive at number ten. It is that the one that I think it's you know and in my case that he used to be the farm directors now assistant GM would always. It -- give me a hard time that would -- on the Blake's wife parts of the world and it did catch key it was coming up knee surgery can even. Play his first year and I think applicant number seven on the list. Christie to run our seven novelists have. Well probably right and I. I took place wired I think it's number five. They did a couple of years ago -- companies -- -- him out remembered -- and played professionally. -- old rules he. Yet I he played the last game of the season for the -- I don't TO. And I remember I asked at their efforts Richard chuckling at me when I keep keep -- Best curve ball he -- -- he came in and play shortstop but he is efficient. And you can look you -- and that's what makes it's fun and it's. I think I think it makes so little easier. And I actually had Varnado had a ball is. What got better for Obama guy had a pretty good pedigree and he's had success in double A -- -- Then that would tiebreak I guess that's why we can't Barnes -- ball bit. Well which is creative people have been -- some I would be -- working one of qualified its notoriety. Failures and a type like treating you actually -- what happened. A decent amount you don't necessarily know who it's gonna happen -- there's a big difference between pitcher wants a week -- A couple months junior high school season. Belichick you know we used to pitching every fifth day over much wonders seasoning it happens sometimes guys where. You know that they were drawn out is either -- loss and they're more like ninety in pro ball and a -- that's gonna happen to people -- the ball change -- policy guy to. It or not he cannot force for much of the spring. He he's he's 66 he's very athletic. Dedicated to occur I think supposed to have a chance to be dollar -- cages. Even athletic enough plastic key bed net and it was a two way guy. And there was some question committee years is which way it was a better way and I think all the -- but it felt it was better as a pitcher when all's said and done that. If -- figured Alex can mean he could have been a surprise second round pick. An outfielder means he's very athletic I think that always bodes well to. Because I think the guys were more athletic. Especially when their big guy like -- X six's. I think they're more likely to be able to figure out control commander keep their delivery and and make adjustments as opposed if they're just a guy -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Yeah and that I think part of the reason why there's still some bullishness regarding beyond Webster's of the world like when. -- evaluate her right talked to you know suggested that did just physically like you know not it just in terms of athletic schism. -- even to a certain degree stuff but certainly not command there were some Zack Greinke comparable you know there there's a little echoes of Zack Greinke type guy. In their but yet balled it exactly right the F lettuce is some combined with the size and you know in this stuff suggests you'd ceiling. Now the -- Barnes conversation to me is a really interesting one that was it. We're not out this here was my Lars Anderson like you what year. After you had you'd kind of been early on the Lars bandwagon hands to my mind rightly so by the way. And then when he fell off you were also kind of you know kind of out ahead. Up recognizing just how steep the drop off was. And you had a number 111 year which kind of I had no links I'd note that Clinton hate mail or you're just if there were any effigies burned or anything. And I want to do isn't doing that well but I did get a lot of questions especially because that had been so far. I can get it once at daybreak you're double about it like in the year before that it -- another got a Red Sox were aggressive -- wait around picnic eat a lot of money Q. The fact that they keep this que -- the 2006 Kraft which is. When I decided they wanted to just sit back in. And not go out hey guys they really believed in the -- means. And over not only is so difficult being that we thought of this before -- After -- four -- Ellis is considered by some people the best prospects next year's draft. Then goes out as elderly issues for the second time in three years has it rough spraying resuscitate his daily traffic is to keep an -- I don't want it ever recruit out -- -- -- run like 28 innings and keep that summer exactly read text -- didn't to a half million dollars spent -- -- -- -- -- next year. And he's really gave I think it was what will way they can hit the wall will be at IA and then. It'll forget Katie he's he's he's still poised to kind of make a big step forward in 2012. And then I was a groin injury or supplements. Yes started crying and ended with the shoulder and it was all -- mess. And it just -- was impassive as the go to it has captured again and then he comes out 2013 -- -- ultimately helped being in an editor at night here. I like bark I guess that's different for me it's funny because. Like my initial rankings I had Renato ahead of them had been a while it has like no I actually like bundled aboard. I just want and they help track record is a big thing or to all -- to have a a pretty ERA. In double later issued stocks about a 135 got a hundred innings and he's still lives in the top of that to just eats we eat vehicle. The better Camilla this stuff I don't know where does get the better curve ball. -- got a better change happen. And I go back and forth and just outside the curious to see what you think. What people talk -- others Cadillac break symbolic. And obviously -- the most notable guided it got talked about recently what that was was Michael -- of cardinals do. Who helped to went from adorned eighteenth in the draft they pressured docked at the twelfth to view established college pitcher. I hate -- -- in the 2000. Told drafted to almost what a World Series this year on iron that was not good and no break -- -- think he is. If you -- you know it's on the tip on how politically pictures really used three pitches. A fairly easily and he -- I don't think there's too many right. If that sort -- has used like what ten to 15% of the time they're doing its job. -- and then to our chaos might not have a good curve ball but if I have a good changeup. Walked and that kind of negates -- platoon advantage of that anybody changeup can get lefties it -- out regardless of which if it's good. Across which were used real where's Osama. Curveball it's going to be ward in a tough on same side hitters out. It's from deep faith doesn't bother me as much had a guy might have I just an okay cricket ball. Is largely static -- changeup I mean I got I don't think that's necessarily -- that might be a little bit better than having a good breaking ball and it if you change. Yeah I think that you know I I totally I totally agree with what with we're going there you know the fastball changeup. Has become really the staple of you know of successful pitching rather than you know more so in in many instances. In recent years then the fastball breaking ball combination. And you know that that. Changes you know that that changed -- a lot of a lot of what baseball has been for a long period of time but you know I think starting with you know starting with Pedro you know we started you know -- started to be -- you know it's kind of like. It's not -- it's not like Mariano where you're able to dominate with one pitch but all of a sudden. You know if you're able to manipulate manipulating fastball which Barnes is able to do expertly and he's -- -- -- swings and misses in the strike zone. Whereas when -- that you hear on Renato even though he had a terrific year is that he mostly was getting his swings and misses above the zone. -- so whether or not he's able to continue to get those moves up levels is an open question but Barnes is able to manipulate his fastball has good command of it gets swings and misses on it. And then yeah exactly right if you're able to have that that pitch to help negate a lefthander maybe it's getting a cover bright and on his hands and is burying it as a as a right handed. As -- had a pitcher may be it's getting that changeup and maybe Barnes is able to evolve to they're probably going to introduce him. Two to a cutter this year. I think that at least there's a decent chance of that then maybe he has a couple different options that make pitches moving in different ways that just does just enough. To get hitters off the fastball because this -- -- the fastball remained a very good pitch for him it was just it was just that he didn't have the breaking balls back it up. He was trying to emphasize the breaking ball at times more than the changeup. In effect adamant in trouble that results didn't foul balls deep counts etc. xetra. I think it. He has to get a decent passable breaking ball the Michael the Michael walker breaking ball in so that's why I heard you know -- brought up a number of times. In relation to -- and even before you just brought a -- People saying look if he gets just just a show me breaking ball. And you know maybe that's the curve ball -- in the in his later season outings. I talk discount it's his scouts outside the organization said -- I thought they saw a decent curve ball from him in one outing and he was really good in that outing. I wasn't consistent but if you can get there just a show me breaking ball that all of a sudden you're talking about a guy his fastball. -- alone beat him a really good pitcher. Gala I think is too. I mean and two more points on that as one ought to have a guy as good breaking ball. In the minors does at the -- success -- -- in the majors that not advocating -- be -- people like have to break some box. Some of these guys get a lot of breaking a lot of times you know -- and take leaks Egypt's biggest swings and misses some people chase should break involve people -- at -- security commander a change happen. It is in his. Yeah she's brought up and up which is why I mean statistics. Do better especially it would double it above I think in the mightily to that matter a lot immediately got exposed to have a good harmonies. Not -- many bad and you begin to wonder okay what's happened. Yeah it is brilliant military -- that aren't here except he had 433 ERA in Orlando to do more hits and innings and -- he walked almost for got -- -- -- struck out eleven guys per nine innings in double that. And that is the most important step he's got Sweden missed out on -- like you said indeed it'd -- almost come -- make -- just the cutter in eighty throws. That cut slider type it's up to pitched just to keep guys two fastball changeup deep throat the ten or twelve times a game. You know that cannot -- if it ever this year probably entitled to any question. They were affected by you know they do in the Red Sox -- mean I think we need the most work is to break -- bolstered -- -- -- They threw a lot of breaking balls that it would get typically exceed accurate throws many breaking ball is try to be more successful you have to. You really have to know this scenario. You what guys are working on what they're doing to some type statistics don't come close to -- sort. Well I think that that covers a lot of the ground of the of the top ten list which which just sort runs a gym you know what you want to know what you know about hybrids -- top thirty list. Well I guess the guy who's fascinated you the most to me that I thought was like to -- the -- kind of sweepers are right where it. -- always tell people in the first -- and -- Bogart in any played in the US easily. That's not that it will break guys stick usually like to improve themselves a little bit you know to break a sixty year old guy especially data applications system. List that I I -- CAD I ever got to tell about -- and the more evaluate I talk to whatever year that first year ranked what I kept open -- up. And up -- and not ever ever Chris Chris Shipley -- talked to be much international director but UAW was -- -- would responding a question that would when that them. Start trying to get some background standard and I forget. I alerted by its sound like I think that it sounded an effective. You know -- I MI DD and a little aggressive by having him like tactic to get apple haven't haven't you know that list. Hey Craig shot that cut that -- low on you know you know investigate -- out. As I don't remember exactly where -- put standards. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Sounds very very interesting yes. Well last year from -- I was. Where it was and while Marco. Who knew it was I think I wanna say. I doubt attract these things -- probably. That of the first guys since Bogart's. That I had really rates without him playing in the US at least Dominican kid territory from from Latin America up. It's just -- cabinet while -- unrealistic still obviously very young but he just sounded. -- -- tools and had a two or three years down the line can be very very interest in place. Yeah I -- -- I actually I was wrestling with whether or not he should end up slipping into the top ten. You know there are three guys in the Red Sox system who I found to be really interesting based on where their current where they. Where their current ranks are vs what their future potential is what is Trey -- we did end up cracking the top ten. And then I would I would lump in has kind of route as a route I would lump it as a as a tense as a similar phenomena and -- Because I think that you know he and -- of the 25 tool guys in the Red Sox system right now. -- go I had in the eleven to fifteen range. And he's someone who you know who I do think he has you know has any has fifteen home run power may be more. Legitimate header field tools he he's going to be probably it's when he plus stolen base guy in the major leagues. Has the you know he he has insisting that he was beaten by breaking balls in the New York Penn league this year. But he was the youngest position player in the New York Penn league this year so he should be beaten by breaking balls. And despite that he was still a guy who posted an average of close to 300 with an on base percentage in the mid 300 so he was a guy who. Frankly. In a vacuum I it's surprising to me that he wasn't in the top ten because he's the type of talent who should be in the top ten. He's just so far away down in low that it made it difficult you know it kind of put him in that same in that same -- blacks is a guy like I like -- Trey ball. I don't think to be as straight balls ceiling I do think that he has greater probability because he's position player. And I think he has a a pretty damn bright future. And you know that. A few years between Jackie after Jackie Bradley he is the next significant Red Sox outfield prospect. And then what other guy who I actually thought you were alluding to. With regards to when you started this conversation. Is rough failed devers the guy who they signed out of the Dominican this past year it made him you know gave him a significant seven figure signing bonus. Viewed as perhaps the best pure hitter in the draft. Yeah actually I. Much to my surprise you know he he ends up. In the top thirty and hearing he ends up ranked well for the top thirty. Even though he has never played a single professional game with a minor league affiliate he -- and instructs and that's it but. Everything that you heard about this guy just that he has the potential to be. A day someone a pretty special that someone. You know who could be the legitimate middle of the order guy. He's -- scene or at least he was when he signed when he was when he was playing and instructs so that makes it almost ridiculous. To -- him ahead of guys with you know with considerable track records in. You know you wanna you wanna temper that -- and the you know how do you separate guy like him who showed incredible tools and an incredible hit tool. It really impressive power forward you know it you know in a vacuum let alone for a sixteen year old. How do you separated him from a guy like -- Trey ball so those for -- where that where the most insisting three guys in there who are kind of sight unseen well I've seen -- a little bit actually -- You know a decent amount but -- who were. -- -- site and seen it yet you know such formidable impressions of standup ranked in real interest in fashion. -- those cases indicates that the thirty wanted do you like pretend. Bill when you do an amateur wanna leave anybody often and you guys got a million half dollars has -- the best hitters on international markets. Just I really talked and they got and we have -- done any -- -- MLB yet. Anti would've really run into him. Or any discussion and an ability to Cadillac I definitely would have made. My top 32. It didn't who surprised you the most did not making it up thirty Alex -- oracle is the highest Thailand last year's top thirty that I did that it didn't make -- step. Well Jose Venezia fell off the face of the year so he went way you know he you had -- in the Timor last year and yet just a dreadful years so he fell. All the way out in quite frankly this conversation the conversation that I had included. Upwards of fifty prospects in the Red -- -- some in he was not mentioned among those top fifty prospects in the Red Sox right now. So that is a that is a fall from grace. I think -- You know that the guy who who didn't make the top the top thirty and you know -- okay outs are going hadn't go ahead and disclosed this once our baseball America. -- thirty wanna Sean Coyle and I think it -- is a really interesting guy who could be Dan Uggla with better defensive spot. If some things go right -- it. After an extraordinary start to the 2013. Season in which it looked like you he might. Push himself. Up to Portland really quickly he saw a recurrence of injury issues and a tough approach. In and kind of a struggle with the mental side of the game I think to a certain degree as well. Bit -- let him out of the top thirty. -- plate discipline which was very impressive for a teenager -- low class a couple years ago. Look he's felt more pressure to hit for power in any -- it's a lot of power this year. But it plate discipline and his ability to contact is definitely gone in the other direction. Yeah so the way in which it's being present you know he's going to go to double -- this year they have to get him out of high day they wanted him to perform his way out of IA this year. But injuries prevent that when he started well. And that his performance event that. When he kind of got healthy later. But this is going to be the sink or swim year for him in don't play for the Red Sox going to be really interesting because I think they're going to opened the year with -- Guerrero. In rookie bet. And -- -- you -- and -- quell a hole up in Portland and that'll be a kind of interesting middle of the middle middle of the field situation. Right -- -- be honest I mean. -- could take a backseat to those -- how about it one thing. And always give our economic else -- die hard time about this it's like -- -- this -- too deep in the draft Connecticut players and always. Agonizing that I can never sit as many of the newcomers in as I want. They did you find that they do you want to make room for more draft dodger did you feel like he was -- I don't have a draft guys you put on I would think at least three in. Actually -- This year in fact in fact only two I only had done I I only had ball and die and tasting Kuwait's. In the top thirty thing courts I think is an interesting. Is an interesting guy who looks like he has a pretty decent chance. To be a major leagues are just based on. Having a the first pitch makes even if he doesn't have anything exceptional but young athletic. You know he has he has a pitch mix and and a pretty significant commitment to being a really good baseball player and so on this one of his pitches may take a step toward making a pretty good. A pretty good starting pitching prospect but beyond that their third round pick was John -- Who was highly regarded as a bat coming out of high school. But but for me he just wasn't advanced and you know. The bat wasn't that there are enough questions about the defense and future position there are enough questions the bat. Was the that is is. Good as a at a at a high school type of level but it not it there's not enough certainty there that he ended up being. That he ended up being in the top thirty or even. Really no one no one really made a real push for him to be in the top thirty other. And I can tell you don't like to -- is. You know what a guy we thought logistical in the first round Indian and drops -- -- on him and in the third round -- a -- either -- you know that I stick up for them. Packets go either -- -- -- based abdicated Israeli security system like the respective. And there were some questions about defense source qwest does that they had kind of rough pro debut in the Gulf Coast sleek that. -- if you cut on the -- just what to do within except that it pushes him off the edge. But -- interest to guide TH yeah I guess in past years battle would have like five or six guys that want to put on there and then some international god sent out about. But yet because I didn't do it I think the rest -- stated it that always looks good on the list like I said before. They're very aggressive about -- ballots that are constantly bringing in guys. Even if you get mixed reports. On you know whether they'll -- feeling that they're always bringing in high ceiling guys how to pitch on any hits its ceiling. -- he's probably an average defender with above average power on the play which is pretty key player although. You know begin with a definite system you've got at least two guys you well ahead of them and police why aren't Christian Vazquez so does have a good -- or. And -- And indeed that is good synopsis of how this thing works with the prospect list is any other who knows how this thing works. Jim amazing being able to to bring you back to. -- -- -- -- What had been your baby for so many years thank you for for entrusting me with now with babysitting duty. Well you you whereas Euro we were well deserving of it like I said now it's set. I had I don't have to feel any guilt bit -- tell -- about security at least what you see here. Probably when I was protected either at 630 I was looking at all that the article you've written for us and W the packaged it is so much extensive work covering the miners. And I find -- these great -- and I would it's thrilling and very great background guy anyway particularly what -- -- -- really would do really good job and respect perhaps Saturday. And I bet that would tell us such you can't I if I can put so much for the prospered amber look at I am not going to give up the recessed after that anyway I know. Longer have to so guilty about that and that hey I've not seen 11330 to just read the type tent and reading the chat. They knew it was very enjoy playing cannot do it better and it's a valuable -- And satirist socialist in front of me to -- -- and are generally act combat but now you can you can have my case individually give you a hard time about. In a draft prospects too high. With a little track record elite private I assume it's probably idiot he reacted. I -- you try to show some restraint but I think for development and. We'll see about that up I get smacked around next time I see many members the Red Sox front office but. That'll be performed buyers could turn out Jim thank you again overlooked sort of following your work with mlb.com. It's been great having fun think again. Yeah.