Nov 20, 2013|
Rob Bradford and Alex Speier explore the Red Sox' interest in Carlos Beltran, the challenge that the team faces in trying to replace Jacoby Ellsbury should he leave in free agency and the team's options at first base.
Transcript - will not be 100% accurate
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Welcome to another edition the Bradford files sponsored by. And I goal distinctive clothing and actor I'm telling you what you gotta get the goals distinctive clothing I went there yesterday Margaret laster. -- yup great place ago right off to day. Which is right off route to. Finally you don't look like a -- idea absolutely thank you martyrdom -- that is Alex -- who is on the other microphone year of the -- for files podcast thanks for. Jumping on him tomorrow to still little programming note. Tomorrow or that it today whenever you might listen to it. Thursday at 7 o'clock is the hot stove show another additional hot stove show. Just to be determined by what we do know is ball Alex spears -- myself will be. On that show from seven date tomorrow will be mesmerizing a -- -- tomorrow could be today Thursday. Or you could be listening to this on Friday in which case both these things have happened in the past. But they're both available on line it's an evergreen type situation is it'll last forever. But today and we're gonna be trying do this throughout the course the off season which is we're focused on three different things. And today's three things are Carlos Beltran who's been in the news lately Red Sox making some contact program. And also replacing Jacoby Ellsbury and the other thing is the first base market let's get right to it Alex. Carlos Beltran when you first hear about the Red -- -- -- Carlos Beltran early on in the offseason. Did anything about that surprise you at all. I just think there's there's an initial surprise because he's clearly limited to being a corner outfielder at this point. And so you operate on the assumption that they have they have both right field and let you pretty well me and at this point. Chain -- know obviously I know once melons denigrating that is a bad three year 39 million dollar deal anymore. He was outstanding in right field gold glove winner. Became the first player in history. With with the game winning RBIs in three separate clincher is in the posts I was scared I was applause -- that worked for -- fat yes. So bright field that works well the Red Sox Marty said that they would prefer to avoid moving him to senator if he can be avoided. And venue of course have left field which. The the platoon of Daniel Nava and Jonny Gomes was tremendously productive this past year. So on the surface it's like well it's also the -- what is the thing he had to -- -- victory -- -- senator. You you know boy had a out of. And and then and that you start thinking well millions of Jackie Bradley in in. And I I understand that can go either way where you say Jackie Bradley is an everyday Major League outfielder. Or Jackie Bradley needs to be -- in the situation but he still have Jackie Bradley. And I don't know volume out spite. Jackie Bradley false to me under the category of I don't know if -- -- If -- the time is still there where you're gonna just after him in the minor leagues for the majority of the season again view I don't know do you feel all right. I don't feel like I don't feel like he needs to do that but we shouldn't forget the Kevin Youkilis in 2005 as a Major League ready player who ended up spending the majority of the year in the minors. The Red Sox were successful this year because they cultivated depth. Very aggressively they made the decision for instance the -- Stephen Drew at a time when they said you know what we'd probably be comfortable. With Jose Iglesias as a starting shortstop just because club is so did. That's just for the 2013 season but we're a better organization. If we signed Stephen Drew we have Jose grace is behind him in case. In case there's an injured starters Jose Iglesias was so far down depth chart semen that I remember last offseason last offseason as I excel I think the other -- are you remember the then how will you be viewed throughout baseball and come into this. This season I don't think it is all -- what are you doing -- Stephen Drew you have to play Jose Iglesias at shortstop heading into that war. I I think there was at least dialogue throughout the course of the offseason about how comfortable they would be with a defense first shortstop. I -- -- you know. But four had -- not been available at the right price at Stephen Drew held out for a two year deal last off season. I don't think I think Jose Iglesias probably would have ended up being. The Red Sox starter but it -- brought in somebody else to -- them. But we're getting off track respond we are we are the focusing on 'cause they're going to -- that and Jackie the point is that even at times when you -- Major League ready option. At a position. There are times when you nonetheless prefer to bring in someone else from outside the organization to give yourself the depth which was obviously so valuable for the Red Sox this past year. To be able to withstand various injuries attrition give yourself greater organizational flexibility so. Jackie Bradley junior. Every game ready right now but that doesn't mean he becomes an every -- -- our children to. It for and a amid a new attempt to Alex not to jump ahead to these other topics that we wanna talk about which are. Are replacing Jacoby Ellsbury in first -- to be very easy to talk about well you. You'd Carlos poultry is gonna help replaced -- -- back and you in my cart situation you have -- novice situation who could fill in at first base Ralph field before we get to those subjects. This take a step back and looked at if you sign Carlos Beltran. What you have in the outfield because I think he kind of forget. What did you lava presented what Johnny Jones presented what you still haven't seen victories that we -- talked about Bradley. One of the reasons and we both know this one of the reasons why there might be some hesitancy about going hard after Carlos Beltran. Is because even though they like him it's still is an awkward -- It is it is I guess that the idea really is building up depth as the number of positions. Kind of observing the fact that they got a little bit lucky with some of the health of their of their regulars last year. How confident are you that David Ortiz once again going to a good point -- 150 game that's very -- very good point because. We look at Carlos Beltran and a week we focus on the position left field right field. But maybe the more important thing is that middle of the order presence and that's a great topic the David Ortiz. Can you get that added David Ortiz again and if you don't who wins get a -- that run producer and we go to Carl's Beltran at least has the capability of doing. Certainly but I think -- I think that two. It's a kind of integrated with the point that you are already making. There is inner play between Carlos Beltran Mike Napoli because if you sign Mike Napoli. Then all of a sudden it becomes difficult to have to move big into moved not -- in carts production. Over to first base for instance. In venues are to get into various -- -- more of -- difficulty of the permutations. It would permit Carlos Beltran to be on the roster in the super betrayed. You know someone like you -- like I I like you and I feel like we're dancing around leaking into the second two topics so the assists and the -- -- that the they say this about -- -- yes the middle of the order component to me is huge in so if you think about the profile of -- of major free agents. For whom the Red Sox are going to play. They probably aren't going to be diving into the six and seven year market. They might not even be comfortable in the five -- market when it comes to guys like. Like Brian McCann I think they might go to five of Jacoby Ellsbury was available on that for the right a rhino dollar figure by I think there -- still be some leader Arenas. Carlos Beltran is not going to get a five year contract he's going to be 8000 years old -- five years from now. So by virtue of the fact did you say every thousand years old. 8005. It. Yeah by virtue of the fact that he's been a very productive hitter who has the skill set you know across the board skill set that. That suggested he's able to be one of these guys is still very productive at at a later stage of his career. I think that of them of the major free agents the ones. Who require compensation you know draft pick compensation. Is probably the most sensible because he requires all us. -- it goes back to the reason why -- -- and bird makes 88 million dollars a year for two years which is I believe he had the third highest slugging percent in the values of free agents. And and it's hard to five -- Morales is another guy or signing candies morale it's I don't that you're giving up a draft pick. And and giving him whatever years ago don't want for the opposition I just told. Yet when he doesn't really have a position at least Beltran has some position about the -- -- Alice is not good at the one position at one half position that he plays so I. Before we move on with Carlos Beltran is it cute. Feel it's a case. If he falls to them at the right price rate I guess this fall under a lot of this right this is like the Red Sox right yeah I guess though. By a two year deal that. You know maybe a little bit more than the other places. By Carlos Beltran dates do you want that third years that a priority that's going to be a fascinating -- especially considering a the money's on the market. In the the level of teams that are going or potentially going after him. It is like the Yankees some. Yeah that Torii Hunter to your 26 million dollar option is not there this right now but I exit you're looking at at a guy like a Beltran who. Yeah that that thirty year could be tough it's better than having to go for years or five years you probably have a you have a reasonable confidence. In terms of children's ability to remain offensively productive bird yeah you know is to let you -- with free agency I think always assume that you're going to have one bad year you -- -- -- trusting him and maybe we should -- topics can be apart just -- -- -- or better yet. We we can talk about this on the hot stove show or maybe -- but I do you listen this we've already talked about it but we look at McCain's contract with the pelicans contract. And he says dollar may be uncomfortable going that third year a lot this hinges on David Ortiz. With so little -- talked about -- he's. He's going to be in the last year of his contract. And how long -- -- you know play how much do they want him back after that. -- and because that that factors into what you're doing with these other guys like a Beltre and like a McCain and because the failed safest lol this -- to the eight. Break ends bright so you need to have an opening at the yeah for him to have in order for him to have that kind of preserve value but yes the question of how long has David Ortiz the heart of their etc. well this year it made it look like forever -- -- at these arguments keep doing it. But of course you know who knows who looks reckless -- save that for for the Austin she could be fascinating. Round at at and popular hot -- made bubble over and if you're listening to this at 801. On Thursday that it once fascinating and you should go and find the podcast of -- -- apple adds it's a beautiful combination this podcast now -- well listen to what it sounds like when rob talks about schools not looking like -- -- models that -- -- -- music provide. And I wish I could say no okay top -- the whole world let's move on to the next subject. Which is if if we had high production value right now we would do drop in the some sound effect in ending being subject number two. Wait did you you are high production and if you are -- -- I excuse them quite well to -- yells Barry. What we look at in terms of could he be coming back what his market's going to be and and almost most importantly and most realistically. What are you gonna do when he does leave and how you replace that value because we've talked about this. That goes under the radar this isn't just a seamless use Jacoby yelled bury you fill in with a Jackie Bradley and all's well type scenario. It's not. But it's so there are two ways of look at this because Ellsbury could make a case that he was the Red -- best player this past year in terms of in terms of Warren impact right he he was in terms of in terms of wins above replacement because of the impact that he carried. Offensively where he was roughly what do 300 hitter with a 355 will be key something like that. And of course his base running is exceptional. Let the American League in stolen bases and he was really really -- as a base runner as one would expect. Defensively he had considerable value -- once again very game in center field so. -- so he is his impact is pretty far reaching even in a year when that doesn't look like 2011. And so yeah at at war on on the one hand you say a damn hard player replace how how do you. Buying the guy who's going to be the replacement for Jacoby Ellsbury accurate Fred -- -- in -- be a really expensive player. On the other hand you know. He was still like what kind of a 77 BO PS guy yeah guy who had a 350 OBP. And a four you know for twenty years slugging mark so those irreplaceable. Did they batter's box offices -- plays ball the defense I think fit and frankly if you look at kind of what what statistical. Projection models have projected of the juniors major leaguer I think that the on base percentage my temper because I'm not sure. Would have beat you know what it comes down to a large part due to the value Jacoby Ellsbury you're right he's a valuable player across the board in a lot of -- The building to get on second base the bill to get on second base very quickly. And that's what he does tree you look at the stolen bases you it is that you mentioned is on base percentage. That we've talked about it about being at the dynamic player and watch how he changes now line up. Insurance and talked about replacing him in the leadoff spot before talked about it on the general managers meet. Things they value on base percentage first and foremost and they have guys who can do that the obvious one answered jump the mind Shane Victorino and did not. Victory -- somewhat less obvious at least against against lefties and -- against right pitched yet and so but those of the two guys that you would think would jump into that spot and they right now they would. Probably say these are lead authors even if Jackie Bradley's line. So. Yes Bradley Bradley's Major League. Met -- these Major League rivals certainly happen in the bottom yet and so when you talk about those guys being leadoff it is great. But they're not that dynamic presence -- very active about getting to second base very quickly. Getting that getting the offense moving in that the right direction and there's a lot of guys in baseball can do that. Yes across the board you look at Jacoby Ellsbury is numbers. You can make the argument will why you -- give -- give that guy twenty million a year for six years. But in terms of what he delivers this team is a dynamic situation and -- he's gonna view I think. Up to replace. Yeah no doubt that it's have to find a one single player who makes you better offensively defensively and on the basis rightly he has that that's that's the difficulty you have to kind of find a way. To replace him by spreading out those skill sets. I'm in finding alternates I think that there's a very good chance to Jackie Bradley junior ends up being a better defender right out of the chute and Jacoby Ellsbury was. I think that there are a lot of scouts at least you'd think the and that's that's fine I mean as though does note that that mitigates the distinction between we have buy in and I guess I was focusing more on the -- -- right dynamic nature so let's say that Jackie Bradley junior -- comparable ability to get on first -- to -- yes but it does not have quite the same value as getting on second base. The value of getting on. -- on it of not getting on first base for getting on first base is considerably more important than getting on first base for getting yes that's right. So at that point -- starting deal with a margin of Jacoby Ellsbury is value which you know it's not an apples to apples comparison so. Let's say the Bradley is the same on -- let's say he's a little worse little ports right. Assumptions that are here. It is slightly better defenders say he's keeping other people off first base in slightly better fashion to Jacoby Ellsbury. That's a little bit of a leap of faith but I think that's when the Red Sox decision makers are comfortable making it -- point. Then. -- maybe not talking about two players whose values are as. Drastically different as one might assume that said. You know meteor or not factoring in and and maybe we shouldn't factory and by past and -- in the conversation is run produce. And and we understand that Jacoby Ellsbury is a run producers different that he was a couple of years ago -- he was different this past year by. -- Jackie Bradley. That Jacoby Ellsbury once last year well I don't think that a very real it was. Run producer last year and a traditional you know waiting for nobody could know don't know I'm not talk about hitting for power of talk about extra bases driving guys and hitting the ball hard you know more times -- not. There's some value to guys I don't think you can just say well Jackie Bradley gets on base almost as much as Jacoby yells very. And and yet these -- to get the second basis fast but when you get through the order a couple times in Jacoby Ellsbury is up with guys a second and third. And it's do you have. In this is a knock on Jackie Bradley sir but do you have confidence it -- operate is gonna figure things out and get those runs in that. It in baby that's not. We can't we kick qualifier that may be. Maybe we can know what you care about I but you can't in the sense of if you look at the conference that you have an egg guy going up against a veteran pitcher a good pitcher. Off not being able -- pitched around in getting those runs and then at this point -- career at this point in the process to -- you have more carpenter Jacoby Ellsbury it's -- be -- -- Short the same time you had more confidence that Mark -- was going to be was the greater. But you have more certainty about what Mark Loretta might do in those circumstances. In 2007. Vs what it Dustin Pedroia might do in this circumstance by -- -- -- -- -- -- that's an extreme example all I'm saying. As if words factoring everything join. -- you can't just say they Jackie Bradley is going to get on basis much about the valuing Jackie Bradley but this. Jacoby Ellsbury is in the prime of his career -- or reason out Jackie Bradley when he gets the prime of his career. Would hope to be is committed to coattails -- -- Adobe well yeah and I don't know if they'll ever have that kind of the he'll never have the 2011 outside put it that way. I believe that he could have comparable value because I think he's a better on base guy overall in Ellsbury I think that he could have a comparable value to what. L.'s first exhibited in 20082009. 2013. It it -- -- by I think report in carpet but well yes I think they contacted not now you voted and we still don't have no we don't know that's the thing we we can project Jackie Bradley. And weak and they can project Jackie Bradley -- see what he did last year but he still hasn't done it sure there's some value there are some bright of course there's some value to. A proven career track record -- question no I understand but until someone does it we can't say definitively that Jackie Bradley is going to do this almost as well as. Jacoby Ellsbury and that right you can text in this is this is where I think it's dangerous. Four for us to start talking about replacing Jacoby Ellsbury because we we probably go down the list of prospects. For the Red Sox that. OK I mean these extreme example Lars Anderson is gonna comment and fill that spot they projected the same way. They that was different because he was never Major League ready. Like in terms of -- he had never done it at the AAA level. Right which -- they were project but they were projecting that was the that was what they were hanging that on when Mark Teixeira signs so. It's all I'm saying is that you have to be careful like we saw good signs from Jackie Bradley right. We saw better science -- in a boat has to be perfectly on source yes. So it's we just can't reach it until we see more of these guys. I just think in this is why were having this conversation. I think it's dangerous if to say you know lot. See related Jacoby victims Jack. Yes but it as an organization it's ultimately what you have to do in there have to be. By and large the Red Sox preference in terms of -- prospects graduate to the major leagues. Is when they've proven that they that they can perform that every -- Major League rule and sometimes that evidence comes spring training sometimes that evidence. Comes in the form. And of of call ups in -- when other guys are injured. But the reality and I had a conversation about about this with we've been sharing in opt for bird down on the farm late in the year. The reality is that there are times when you simply have to trust. You know about the guy there are times when you have to make a degree of a leap of faith when you perhaps have less -- -- evidence yes that you want to. There is value to the certainty that you're talking about with Jacoby Ellsbury and his track record. How much value is there is that value. Nineteen million dollars and all I understand that no line I united says and Jackie Bradley by all accounts can be part of the -- -- I'll -- sooner than later by. Come back to another example will middle Brooks will middle Brooks -- -- number five hitter you've gone to the Major League that he thought he was Major League ready. And if they cleared a spot. They cleared -- Nicholas for exactly and and or could you know what this put in a hypothetical -- -- hypotheticals. It's if it's a hypothetical if and Adrian Beltre was on team. And they felt like you know what we can sign Adrian Beltre for this money. Or we can have a will -- Brooks villain at all last money a -- week neutral for a long time because we feel like he can do that. Then it probably would go with -- little -- Brooks there. And and they might have gotten burned in Russia exactly so the billows of course the Mariners. Kind of got you know feel like they did -- not get there I don't I don't care about I don't I hear about the matters but I'm I'm saying that in free agency what -- -- When you're signing a guy who has a proven track record their risks associated with that as well yes yes I think that. And it also. Helps what helps. Is when you're signing guys and I think this is another thing it's the value Jacoby Ellsbury. And just starting to be surfaced. By the Red Sox as something that they have to take a harder look at which -- guys they already out guys that they know about the it is something they didn't value enough in the past. John had reset after the last game that -- -- value that maybe more than outside freeagent shark bite you know more. You know more you have more -- it and you argue looked at me like you don't agree that mean the did not. Valued -- enough the past. I mean in what specific example it's -- -- as Beltre yeah Beltre verses like Adrian Gonzales something -- and -- the the -- -- that -- -- Mean Julio Lugo. Most of right well let's let's get this -- most of their freeagent signings threats at your position of not -- -- well yes so the guys though they failed to value properly. Internally. I mean -- you know with Vinny -- extending Beckett and they said they topping. -- that was that was back contract -- at least I've been made a mistake in extending probably Michael like it time they did. Not that it was a bad contract was good contract. But he didn't want us on this -- look to -- Jason Bay but as Jason I mean Jason -- an example you can never prove what we never we never -- way right or not know the guys -- walked away after having. Having successful years here recently you know wicked case today. You look at Adrian Beltre elected Victor Martinez beat the mark uses on the other one mean. Although we're talking about how they failed to properly value their own guys with regards to Cody Ross. And we're like -- -- sentencing victory you know for three and 39 that's a great example and that's a great example of the the opposite taking them and and you know it Dave Reid David Ortiz now yup and in and I think it's this -- reverse where. Teams. Probably. If it was we -- -- the year -- -- teams probably in value him enough. And I think yeah like he's one in which I think it like I think that Weller is so flawed you know because they'd like -- just. Kill his positional right like you know there's this view of David Ortiz is being like Noah battle only in by virtue of that -- It kills him in war he looks like he was ranked behind Mike Napoli in terms of wins above replacement player in markets Napoli was a very good defender this year. At a certain point it's like do you like it doesn't factory in what a huge competitive advantage he represents at a specific position in his epic lineups and. And also. If this isn't as stat driven as what you're talking about just playing in Boston. There is some I still say there's something about being able play in Boston BO play the American League east. We're gonna be talked about this conversation with John last year in the coming year because week we can look at other alternatives for Jon Lester but. There's something to be set for pitching in this division pitching successfully used to -- this is the guy I believe the last. Off for years has more wins than any pitcher in the in the American League east in part because he's been here for well I I would -- -- No more I think one of the CC sabathia looked it up now yes so it's. You guys so there's something that can be said for that and a lot of guys you just don't know but I think all of a house to be factored in and I just don't think you can just down. That -- Billy to play in Boston to play in the America please in anyway so that's that's Jacoby Ellsbury conversation. Right and she's proven that he can play in Boston right he has an established track record there's a leap of faith. The you need to go with. Whether that's replacing Jacoby Ellsbury was Jackie Bradley junior or another solution even if it's Carlos Beltran yet and that Carlos Beltran let's not forget has played well I guess he played in New York. So you know with the Mets and was -- subjective -- considerable scrutiny including that from his own owner. Well you know but I think that it's it's also you. You go to. The guys who they tried that will they -- from outside organization. And the due diligence they have in terms of projecting these guys could play in Boston. Because that's something they did factory in the factory and Mike Napoli. The did the research like -- Mike Napoli Shane Victorino plane in in Philadelphia. So. They admitted. That maybe more than even in past years when they were looking at potential free agents. Could these guys potentially be in this sort of under the sort of microscope Jonny Gomes is another one. It never works -- underneath it but they're considering it and yet it's what you're looking up -- I'm trying to figure perhaps if your -- hard -- -- -- the -- do -- the want to vote to disrupt the show by -- -- -- I don't think and we're moving and I'm dazzled in someone intimidated by -- -- -- as -- as. That well you know. Barbara the last struggled coliseum route two way right off to. Not too far from the that conquer prison you know that'll rotary take -- right great great day. So the next the third topic that we talked about as you topic number three allows it -- 222. Nice to first base position. Going forward. Mike Napoli did for the start there do you think. A bill of this do you predict Alex what's your prediction when it comes to Mike Napoli -- -- -- It's like physical like a court denied the Doug do you think you did you think that might now please come back the -- its arts. And I at all wonder drugs violence yes are now youth thing. -- -- -- make a little easier yes are you erring on the side I well I I -- I would say that the preponderance my my assumption is that Mike Napoli returns yes okay. So. Mike now if you experiences across the room or is that since 2009 since 2009 when CC against America these teams so against American yeah that's what I was talking about that's very interesting. It with. As opposed to Grossman -- least fair and allowed podcasts. Ago. So I busters section wins among at least pitchers I'll figure this out as cute I -- -- leader -- X. The the listeners flooded over your right though is that the properties of the constant -- and if you listen to this on Friday or Radio One on Thursday than you already have the answer. So. Mike if Mike Napoli does not come back parents. It is a very interesting conversation and and we should say this the Red Sox have positioned themselves pretty well at all these positions. The outfield. Yells -- Saltalamacchia. Drew the Napoli that they can cover themselves in knocking bidding wars. And so we look at first base how can they do that we know we think we know the answers right well. I would say -- catcher is -- catcher is the one position of their vulnerability regarding the bidding war -- first base yes they have the internal and the internal possibilities. The ones you alluded to might partying not obviously -- time there I think that if that happens. Then I do think tootsie will middle Brooks. Taking some time to figure out two -- today. Explorer first -- glove or specially injuries. Especially to resign but I don't think that's happened you don't think. -- -- -- not sold on this idea that da. You know it's it's they'd go to three or our years firm are soft with his canoe creek and its exit to. Which you know three years they would normally say with no draft pick attached yet no problem. Absolutely -- young enough peaking yet that but it's to exit at two and in the Red Sox -- overpay a little bit. Because if they like him so much. They like him quite a bit but if -- Stephen Drew you have one shot at getting this right a year you get -- -- getting they're getting that but he did you say you're going to be 33 -- -- your next contract yeah 3334. And under your future as a shortstop is in question. You know even going back out on the market as a 32 year old shortstop teams are saying well how do you feel about third base you know I if if I'm Stephen Drew two years as a problematic off as a as a quite -- eyes a little -- this you make something laughable. This this whole thing about oh yeah of the Yankees is still interest in Steven grow as long as they are inexplicably. Wed to Derek Jeter at shortstop. You are not signing Derek you are exciting Stephen Drew Stephen Drew. Wants to be at shortstop and has earned the right to be Johnston and in fact I remember asking him in spring training whether -- not yet any conversations last offseason with the Yankees. About the possibility of moving off shortstop because at that time you know they were they were doing with the idea that Iran might not be around. Pro last year. And so that's when they signed Kevin Youkilis. For when you're in twelve million I believe via NC -- said he had never had talks with the Yankees and that's and that's not even coming off a post season which he. Weighs one of the best defense of policies which -- -- receive you know long time right. Right -- so yes I think that it's it's really difficult to fathom true as they match for the Yankees seem that he wants is it short stop in the Yankees. And keep Jeter shortstop so let's go back to first base he -- we get to this isolate Israel Brooks might season time efforts to end up going with the as their primary first baseman against right handed pitching -- how do you feel about that -- a car scenario first base. I think it. If they're both healthy then that's. You know -- the defense you wonder about the defense would suffer I think when you're going from Napoli plus now Obama let's say two. Two. That's a carpet for space up plus now in left field or. Carpet in left field either way that's a worst -- they have they have to when it comes to defense the first base. I don't say that start from scratch but they have to start at a similar position they were. When Brian Butterfield -- -- Mike Napoli in the back field before every game and Fort Myers yeah except there's a difference here which is the Napoli represented -- kind of more more about pulling canvas. At that time all now I have that now we can be that Nava -- -- and bright now as certainly the -- of the came of the camp by but it yeah -- You know I asked a lot of people there was a point in the middle of the season and carpet is really producing maybe July may be early August -- started talking to. You know two people inside the organization people outside the organization. Do you think that cart has the tools to be an everyday first baseman. In the answer was maybe question mark you know in there wasn't this is a weird thing is that we. Scenario -- says. Carpet and secondly. On the team and you listen to Mike our pride in my previous podcast but Mike Hart finished second on the team and slugging percentage. The act shows you that he could supply something that's very we talked -- middle of the order something that's very difficult fine. But as you said it's still a little bit of a mystery. As is it's not a big enough sample size. Against righty and lefty pitching. Playing animal he played -- played a pretty good early tracker there but that's the thing that makes it fasting and got some things of people hang their -- on a lot. Which is you look at this guy and it's not just almost -- he started hitting extra base hits in the middle of the year for the Red Sox this this past year and it's well. You was good the miners that he had some injury problems -- a little bit overwrought wrong place wrong time. Maybe found the right place the right time now you're dropping him 27 years old. Ball there it it's it's this is the -- these are the reasons why it makes some sense that you Mike -- abroad pearl. Yeah and he looked like a guy who -- who certainly offensively deserved one and I don't know if the it's if you -- anything like what he was last year over a -- period of time which means that there is greater vulnerability could be exposed. Then you know that you're not talking about a big offensive drop off from Mike Napoli and there's the possibility of an offensive upgrade because. Mike Napoli was a good offensive player you know he was a guy. Get on base percentage -- ended -- -- -- 360. 23 home runs which is a good -- not a not a and he he might -- you -- disease you would not think -- -- -- is gonna lead the major leagues in pitches for players parents as one separate there is that is certainly a separate India's -- gonna have a a worse on base percentage -- going to be a bit more of the run producer that you're alluding to earlier in terms of and making contact in you know in situations with two outs and a runner on second base or something like that. So but the the overall offensive package might be at least comparable. There is probably defense of -- that you're willing to absorb there and -- to do some other things because Napoli was not a team guy. With car you have to kind of an Eagles roster because I think the Red Sox are you know the -- that he's not going to be not only has -- option against lefties are. It's it's I come back another -- that come back to with car is says. The that they were rent they were ready and willing. To make him Clancy. For the first base market last year yeah and and that shows you that bill they -- to stumble into him this guy after he was DF fade by Seattle. Trait for a pilot cash. That date this is the guy that they were targeted just worked out for them that Seattle the F freedom and they got him for wildcats. Right but this also gets to the -- you're talking -- a little bit earlier which is the depth question in why it was so important for parents to sign Stephen Drew last year. If the Red Sox go into a season. With their corners kind of defined by. By now of them by you know with cart people there -- all -- that's when you starlet you know and Eric Chavez apparent -- Who do you recent ultra look now -- it doesn't make sense is the other guy to -- because he's left handed so you -- are right now science. I -- you know so it starts to get a little bit tricky. The day in time we haven't looked enough into that market -- It leads us to a very interesting guy surfaces name a couple weeks ago in Korea are having -- art. Is we talked about how the Red Sox approached the off season last year and it wasn't -- this guy had a great year so this cosigned him it's the -- -- down year and he has had success before this cosigned him Carlos Ruiz. This is one of the reasons why you like Carlos threes he has done this in the past and you might be getting out little lower value right now. Right -- Cartier he has a career track record of 360 UB TI -- at 320 -- he last year that's gonna suppresses value by. That might suppresses value by a year to that might present value by. Million dollars here million dollars there didn't work out that way I tell you what if you keep Corey Hart he looks to me a great fit. In that respect because in his reason why he can play outfield that gives you some versatility not great -- feel what you play outfield and and then use this he he's a right handed hitter. You have him if you have any current downturn or any kind of question marks he half cart's sitting there you have novice sitting there. And if you do catch lightning in the bottle and this guy does turn out to be close to -- every -- player great yeah and so that you might be in the same position. -- Stephen Drew where a year from now you can extend him the qualifying offer. You know and it has kind of significant long term ramifications. So I think that for me and perhaps you agree. Like clearly the Red Sox can't just stand pat with regards to their corners right like this is why. They're gonna have to add someone they may have to re sign Mike Napoli. Right now I would be adding someone big may have to if he leaves sign Corey Hart. Which would which would actually work out as a better compliment probably been -- Chavez but they could consider Chavez because. He would give them depth on both corners a little bit of versatility and even though would be left -- it would be nice left handed compliment for two. But they will Mel Brooks and Zander Bogart's third base year via so there're there are different ways of going about this. Clearly the Red Sox are going to have to add a first baseman. Yes and it's interesting also to. Two to find out in this process in this offseason process when you start. According policy. I guess I can do once they deadlines but one you start saying to some these guys particularly that they have. That they had on their team last year let's make a decision. We have to figure things out because we've -- we start seeing trickle out now more guys are getting signed. -- bay ain't -- amp up in the coming weeks do you see trading places. A month IC trading places. I like to introduce this concept because to wait there's always says this about well who who is who is the guy. Wheeling himself around the streets of Philadelphia at a. Randolph Mortimer knows now Eddie Murphy well yes -- -- -- Valentine. Bill that would be just. -- -- -- there was no helmet W warned there was nods but. -- means like there's this phenomenon of the holidays. It has significance for the activation of the free agent in the off season market. And he kind of gets to what Eddie Murphy talked about when he introduced himself to Randolph and Mortimer duke -- accurate fill them -- anything I can feel competitive they're gonna you know there -- they -- the GO. -- generally older. In full equipment balls. These are holed out a way yes yes greatly yes. Yeah and so he's like you know and so. Eddie Murphy says. Wait for them they're going to panic on pork bellies pork bellies and I would love to appropriate a blue streak right now but this is a family podcast pinkie -- so I will not but I -- the last. Like to -- when you sit around at the Thanksgiving table and he's been four days in a small like you know in a small area with many relatives. We're asking you yeah so what about talking to this team and how about this team and how about this team. That really accelerates the market in so between Thanksgiving in New Year's sometimes just before Thanksgiving to -- to deal with that crap. During let's let's operative Johnny Jones signed just before Thanksgiving last year and before his birthday so we didn't have to worry about that it was while -- was celebrating those two things. So between Thanksgiving and it ends and Christmas that's whatever ones like I can't go through that again so. But for me bright after Thanksgiving is when you start having -- decisions. About you know they did start to get the -- -- working. -- -- -- -- So it's that wasn't so when the day it was the first day that you say. What these four guys is getting its due to do one of these four guys that were talked about Saltalamacchia drew up wheels -- Yet sign before the winner means yes which one. -- now okay all right by the reds are my prediction as my predict your -- bureau predicted economic threats so. You can mark it down that Alex -- has predicted the Mike Napoli will be sunny with a -- right sites before the would be I would also like to Nazis reserve the right to change and I. And it knows that consistency is rob as we've gone -- but -- -- goblet of simple mind -- Kennedy you know. I figure we've -- long enough because you realize -- a couple of Edwards could do this again and maybe we've already done this again by the time you listen as the hot stove show. Thursday nights every Thursday night -- Thanksgiving via hot stove show last year at Thanksgiving Thanksgiving gas work you remember Alex I believe Alex in topple this was one of them yes. In John Ferrell I'm gonna say that is correct I was I was not one of it would have been posts. I was return all was -- you're -- -- -- this in your contract thing thank him enough. But it's -- -- to talk about more by it was all right Alex will thank -- -- -- I thank you stop on by over Gould at any time. I was shake your hand with the yet duke and progress right now thank you celebration of the and a fine thank you very much stay tuned stay tune in Thursday night 7 o'clock hot stove show.