WEEI>On Demand>>The Real Postgame: Richie Incognito speaks out, analysis from two guys who spent 20 years in NFL Lockerrooms

The Real Postgame: Richie Incognito speaks out, analysis from two guys who spent 20 years in NFL Lockerrooms

Nov 10, 2013|

Fred Smerlas, Steve Deossie and Butch Stearns react to Richie Incognito's interview and talk about life from inside NFL lockerrooms.

Transcript - will not be 100% accurate

OK so let me ask you got a couple questions 'cause on -- programs -- -- please could you ask these guys about what they want one -- personal. How surprised us all started Stephen -- there how lacked a little knowledge that the reporters had the locker room. The things that go on a lot from a lot of a lot of boots it'll rookies command. Admit it's a very aggressive with so it's it's a tough situations of -- rookies is guys don't want their jobs taken. But traditionally they bust their -- -- Bruce Ross -- while the table for a bridge that goes on there. Stuff that wouldn't be accepted in society you know the top guys went at each other all time it's it's it's it's completely dark -- The argument to that is that. Who cares -- if it's gonna -- locker room they should be subject to the saying nobody wants social mores and social low. Rules of full of decency as. Other as the other places and what I thought it just might be now because things are about to choked up talking about bill will change and trust us about most the stuff of the provisional -- what is not. Dot brought recruits who for your -- guys like Erica. It's in it's not it's not a lot 9% of the price grew so should've waited on the biggest. That's a different. It's a different world just not to launch -- people mean as a high level density high distrust of susteren and we'd -- to like what in his eyes of surprise -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Here's my question she doesn't think you do a really good -- start to set it up Steve there's two issues here are sort of two sides of that I look at. One is what you guys just started the NFL locker room culture and and a lot. Which is why I am so glad you got easier today because we didn't live that you did. The other end of it -- as Steve said. Is why people are latching on to this story so much is it's all the buzz words in a work environments are so while we all agree. That the NFL locker room and we don't know you guys do. -- and to be honest let's be honest she united current NFL locker -- -- may not changed over the years somber in my life is all right but we're still got -- -- -- right but but so. So. My first questions about that how is an NFL lot different than any other workplace you guys. For a first and foremost of errors. A lot more it's closer than. Ben and he works scenario I've been part of or could imagine. Simply because. It's you guys against everybody else if you can't trust the guys do you with you can work in an environment where you vote. Care about the person that next few in the next cubicle you don't trust that person or you can just put your eight hours in a move along and get to check. It makes it more difficult in the NFL if you can't trust that guy next if you don't think that he's got your back if I think that you put -- out there and he's not. You're gonna have an issue with the -- their lives could come down to who's gonna come down to confrontation memorial. What business relies more on teamwork and football. They'll -- don't block you know if it doesn't happen Corbett has little ball record doesn't have a code 20 right well coaches run the the lie about a dozen filled correctly what happens defense wanted to give -- -- -- -- -- -- -- so. It happens to go back blocking maneuver average and that's but I yet when you're supposed to anger fill that hole and they're asking. You're asking guys to do things that go against human nature you're asking guys. To play live through pain and to. And to accept that as part of the natural equation which isn't normal in any war case and -- well let's not true there's. There's plenty of blue collar jobs that of the -- go to war with pain went up offices. This is I don't know a ridiculous level. So. In your guys' experience is an NFL locker room. Football locker room how is it different than a college locker room that you were -- or maybe even just -- our guys are really only 110 of 1% of college guys make the pro. You know I was in more of the high level but. Although fast and there's one thing that I observe. All the last couple years with the softening of the pre season is the filtering process. Guy like mountain in our era wouldn't of made it through the filter across the pre season he would quit. -- -- -- 68 weeks double session with pads and a pounding children that lot you get tired. Might get one down around the mall lawn and play football you kinda look at that the money look at the pain in the -- -- time left. And it's tough mentally get all that so somebody that's mentally tough with a little less count -- -- would have beat him out. In those days but my with a little more talent than the tough guy but tough -- -- it's a -- pre season that's why I have a lot of problems in regular season because you don't get guys out. That we can't take the pain can't play and -- besides the level of talent obviously Freddie in college vs talent intensity how would you. I was a BC locker room was as far as the the camaraderie that disorder dragon on each other this sort of pushing each other find out who stopped and whose -- was at the same at a at a -- decision this -- nobody I can tell -- despite Friday's second or third game. As a freshman at BC he already knew that he was tougher and better. Then. 85% of those guys maybe I -- You already know that you yeah I don't yeah don't you just know you can look at a guy in to watch -- practice you watch and play. And say OK that guy does and doesn't want as much is not as tough. It will mark gold -- wall. Like you're willing to do it also you'd see guys read and react to things quickly -- got the guys are really fast. It frees up and couldn't read and react grow quickly another thing -- a protocol -- -- You noted or -- before you -- in a pro locker room you don't know all along everything you can be cut tomorrow so era guys don't try. They get a college that I really like football and Ralph four years ago did -- and all of your very good player in college. You know that. Odds are you're. You're not really going to face. A ton of similar competition. You get in the NFL. You're facing competition there's no two ways about you you goalie you're amongst the best of the best the toughest. The hardest work in the -- you know you know -- hands out in college. Your -- a plea deal. I don't know what's call bow Wake Forest you you you walk into -- -- -- when when we are colleges are OK I know him. Until a social fun hearing your approach you can't think that way it is if I'm hearing your point of everybody's hearing your point correctly an NFL locker room. Even compared to a major division one. College football locker room is completely different and actually positive actually deserve the best of the best you and -- playing for. Beauty -- playing for a lot more than. The owner of your college program in place for your future proof your livelihood if there are guys decide. Right and the organization that -- jobs or in the league and all that -- you -- you first and foremost and and and this is true for vast vast majority of players. You're playing for yourself and for him. The best way you can do that is to work with that team and tried to be part of a team that has a similar idea that we're a work everybody else humanly possible. Item a truck a -- guys -- -- older now the time they all bring got Tito. You know maybe I shouldn't some analysis of -- couldn't. As for you or you play at that level. Accessed by you had to do what you're -- your blood you couldn't quit if you could -- you would acquit -- all that. Eight -- double sessions for up to three hours a day twice a day we're past due to quit. It takes up the way for -- Emotionally. In life because you're always at that high level in you -- see you guys -- a -- connector on the job and they can't do that you could -- -- quit. -- 61777979837. As the number as always this is the real post game show. Until 730 tonight Steve DeOssie Fred it's -- -- guys who played the game guys who made their bones. In NFL locker rooms for several decades. The Ricci and -- needle thing is still in the news I know it's been talked about all weeklong Morgan -- talk about it some more not only because these two guys are here. But because Jay Glazer aired an interview we had an exclusive sit down fox sports with. Richie and -- need to aired today and we're gonna play that after the break we'll also have our honey bunches of vote to post honey bunches of votes. Halfway point player of the year for the patriots all that on the real post game show which presented by complaints -- insurance a couple of its -- They shop so you can save visit complaints ski dot com today. And by post foods honey bunches of votes and the real post game show is also brought to you by AT&T. It's surreal post game show era patriots by a week they get set to play the Carolina Panthers. Next Monday night a week from tomorrow night will be here into the wee hours of the morning. For its -- Steve DeOssie imports Stearns a real post game show brought you by complaints insurance. We're taking your phone calls it 6177797937. Text on the AT&T text line at 37937. -- says. You guys are really appreciate this point of -- you guys -- the first people of not talking like weird it was about the NFL. Palaces I miss hearing you guys during the week Nolan says dumb asses. Are armed service members relying on each other more than any football player does. Interesting point. It -- about your point. I might CS -- into the microphone -- are a little while journalists are still off. So who -- spanking union ridiculous arguments well clear of the -- -- put us about the military go out there are we going to sign up there the main if NFL you can be on that next day. Yeah I can cut from the a move but you'd put your corrected your own you know and food to use an old term if you're a functional you've got -- you've got to trust those guys next in this life or death so yes that that's actually agree when. It was stupid sued to ignore that part of -- -- and accurate as far as intensity but the other thing is sign up you're automatic here and they want to sign up. Before -- is about a felt different nearly picked Q a lot of the best of the best. Yes it is and that's the point Freddy you get drafted by a team you didn't choose to go to most of the teams -- What is what's his name Eli Manning did -- street it's already cut to the giants and others however on stuff like that Elway. Right we're gonna hear from Richie and -- don't. First time he's spoken publicly about this entire incident he spoke to Jay Glazer. A fox sports we will keep you update of what's going on the Bengals and ravens are still in overtime right now the weak teams have begun. -- -- thrown a touchdown pass along one to Julius Thomas is tight and -- leads San Diego seven enough thing. Arizona we choose to seven and I think you heard the update in the break we'll keep you updated on the games have implications with the patriots and more again the ravens and angles are still in overtime. 1717. So now this is the interview that everybody's talking about today Richie and -- Ito speaking -- Jay Glazer of fox sports exclusively yesterday. The interview aired today. On fox NFL Sunday here you go. This obviously has fractured the dolphins' locker room and ugly story but going way beyond sports you have accusations of racism accusations of -- Accusations of bullying and the center of all is the relationship between Jonathan Martin and Richie -- you know. You can ask anybody in the Miami Dolphins locker who had John Martin's back the absolute most and so undoubtedly tell you me. John never showed signs that. Football is getting to warm. The locker room was getting -- -- you're saying you don't know what led to this. Image and we don't know. His size clearly should we do know repair and there's bullying involved there was a voice message last. I'm rich you you do -- the short message yes I did it is what and it's hey what's up you have and word. He should black press are you on Twitter. You've been traded ten weeks -- want to blanket your mouse and a slap your black -- Called to slap your real mother cross of chase after you were still a rookie culturally. You hear that. Going back to that now you look at that say. I left that Jonathan Martin. When I should have -- our rights of those words come up cross screen. I'm embarrassed by it embarrassed by the actions -- I want people to know is to -- Jonathan and the rest of the offensive line and how our teammates how we communicate its boulder. It's it's not right when the words are put. In the context. I understand why a lot of eyebrows get raised the people don't know how John and I communicate to one another. But there's one thing as saying that notion. With the white and using me and work -- and that's. Have you had to tell America how do -- expect anybody in America to believe you're not a racist right I'm not a racist. And to judge me by that one word is wrong in no way shape or form is it ever acceptable for me to use that word even if it's friend a friend on a voice them. How much in his locker room it's thrown around. By. African Americans. And -- players. It's around a lot. It's it's a word that. On effort -- a lot not saying it's right collided in the voicemail but there's a lot of cold for work words around locker room that. We don't use in everyday life the fact of the matter remains though that that voicemails left. On -- private voicemail from my friend. It was a joke right wrong or different because of all this. You've become the face of bullying in America. So hundreds of mobilization to -- Mine John relationship. Where I may I I've taken stuff too far. And I didn't know was hurting. To John Mark overreact or John was hurting that much. I can't sit here and tell you who will reacted who did what I -- use I I can you -- -- be accountable for my actions and my actions were coming from a place of love. No matter how bad it helpful words sounds. -- that's how we communicate that's our friendship was. And so those -- the facts and that's what I'm accountable for your -- either one any signs going into that you know. As the leader. As his best friend on the team that's what has it has -- -- how I miss this. End. I never saw what I never saw coming through so many subplots in this. How much has come out where you looked and said. -- -- -- -- I think the whole thing I've been sitting there saying that's tight and close it sounds terrible it sounds when -- when it's on the screen it sounds like I'm a racist hate it sounds like. On the meet head it sounds a lot of things that it's not. And I want to clear the -- just by saying I'm a good person you out. Actually got up very checkered history. She went back to college don't have to -- without question -- it concerns -- golf course should governor you're sick I'm a good guy it's it's typical for America. To grasp that when all -- -- Episodes. Right no question and if you go if you go by just all the knuckle -- stuff I've pulled in the past have done in the past Sidney you're home and you think in this guys loose cannon. This -- a terrible person the skies are racist. When I couldn't be farther from the truth if I was a racist and I was bullying John -- when the press -- in there and ask some questions. That locker room what is said listen we we saw this we saw that I'm proud of my guys for having my back and tell the truth. But the fact of the matter is when John left the team on Monday we played game on Thursday. I spoke with John on Friday. You spoke for them. I typed text of them I -- text message text questions I'd just open to text message he text me and said I don't blame you guys. I blame some stuff in the locker room I blame the culture. I blame I blame what was going on around me. And when all this stuff got going swirling in bowling got attached to it and my name got attached to it. I just Texan as a friend's like what's up with this man he said stock -- for me I've had said anything anybody. And I'm like you know OK these rejects -- Google assure no question. I'll give -- after the -- I'll give you my phone to walk through all these tax or an hour we'll show you the framework of friendship. Jonathan Martin. Was sitting right here next year. What would you say to him. I think -- to say I think that you will be out right now is we've been through so much I just feel like. Do what's going on. Why didn't you come to me if you were to say listen he took away too far you hurt me. I thought I would just apologize and explain to him exactly what I explained to you I apologize to his family that they they they they took it as as malicious but. I never I never. I never meant it that way. Our guys actually Richie made good and did give me his phone I printed it out about this in the last year. 11142. Text between these two guys and to say that. It's offensive. Absolutely there are things in there obviously. We're friendly show we're not gonna show the things that go back and forth between these two guys but it's going back and forth between -- and kinda you don't drop in the -- But I think the more important thing. Is that the end here after Jonathan Martin left the team. He does have one text that says what's up man. The world's gone crazy LOL. I'm good -- congrats. On the win. I'm good -- it's insane -- just no I don't blame you guys at all it's just the culture around football in the locker room. Got to me a little. So there you have it Richie Incognito speaking to Jay Glazer -- -- is comment about it if you watched it. Lives. On fox right after that they took a break he came back in how we long. The whole crew Terry Bradshaw. And I Jimmie Johnson and down my freedom from the giants. Well. -- Michael Strahan all had their say they'll it's a very mentioning things to say. About how this wanna and they all kind of deferred to -- hand. Because he's the one who's been in NFL locker -- most recently as a player compared to all of them and how he was quick to admit. How many actually screwed up Sam bit of telecoms players -- 03 the correct him later it's 93. He himself ten years but positioning -- say again you guys. French roast you just you've been an NFL locker rooms for many many years did anything -- in car and you say surprise you. Indicate what you were thinking what. While I was surprised about a text messages and probably go back and forth and you know we all had players black and white and the way you. To -- like play isn't back and forth between each other it's it's probably a lot that would be considered ballroom offensive. If it was taped him brought out -- open did you say stuff to each other that that that's not you laugh out there because the -- in my text messages. Conversations with with fresh and add some more offensive so it's all so -- my thoughts I don't know -- my first question is 011142. Text over a year between the two of them that I get the records of you to texting at 1000. It all the -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The ground and I it was a person to -- -- with the baby Johnson. What does buffalo ready Tampa want to is tries experts accidents like I stand there and kind of -- rules your rookie. But rookie Jiri watney was -- he was a defensive -- give -- a line or draft the same impairs not actual culprit. And so these -- kind of weird look and I'm on I was kind of -- -- trial that I want to have. This is the premise of the -- me a goatee on strike had as he has -- five entering spring. In each from August and close them like. An -- have to drop mostly was my was she just a bit of a job. It would best friends are we just took a trip to Jackson Mississippi's Arafat like for an -- Williams was the first player -- the history of old message -- to was so well so organized. Ten players denouncing him -- he couldn't travel you know it was just my opinion -- nanny and -- The larger richer myself a much different plays a baby Johnson -- -- Chris -- It was a closeness and real close but we talk trash to -- address some times you'll bring as you know. Rookie to rookie. No well every want everybody to know -- teammate TJ it. Many routinely I guess I'm trying to get it -- you it would not surprise you what and -- both ends of the spectrum have been a young guy rookie trying to earn his keep in the league. You've also been a god it's at the end and your nurturing guys in trying to build the team. From. A leadership ruined her -- did after a while we're filtering. Okay social let me ask you that. Go to the other end of the spectrum when you guys later in your career. Did you treat rookies differently. Like how different was when you were a veteran tenured guy you're on a team compared to when you were 12 year guy. Jonathan Martin coming out. Well -- your -- assert yourself you can't commit as a rookie interchange the the cultural locker room which is not to happen it's no matter who Yorker here. Number one pick overall in America -- change. The the way the locker room it is. And when you look at it. Things were back in the in the -- these elegantly. It was a lot different than it was when I finished playing and in that in the design these. Because it wasn't the -- was more racial tension. In Dallas from the might have been when you finished though when I when I was there in Dallas there though there was more racial tension that and Matt -- -- -- factor of being in Texas. There was. Zero racial tension. In the giants' locker and just five years later when a one up there or maybe I was at I didn't notice of put -- his car produces an instance. Arabs say there was some -- -- it's not there wasn't there like that where it's the patriots there was no real racial tension there that was no it was. Part of that culture comes from what the team wants to accomplish -- guys are what kind of guys who surround yourself with and what I noticed even in the New York Giants locker room and we will patriots locker room was that. The coaches. And the players wanted nothing more than to try to win ball games and that was more important than anything. Even remotely. Religious terms. Well I Buffalo Sabres is going right through our I. Already San Francisco was phenomenal and ought to be indebted to have a child -- there was some wrong to denigrate the group for the guys. When I came in the week it was gone out later on in him in his mid eighties he got obit. It got a little Britain war divided you know when I never liked -- -- we discerning eye and asked her as saying I think I I I didn't. Pompeo busted -- once Robert -- alliance and -- for some drinks like that. But the general restore our all time in -- I'm nervous about -- -- older and complete and guises yapping away and and and and then and -- -- guys from white and black colors black guys amongst the most of it today. That word offends you rightly rejected so don't use in front of me. As a -- mail if you want to use to deal. And they blows up and go away because it was cut -- point was that was beaten you know there wasn't there was a little bit more divided in the days -- was early -- in the seventies and early eighties. But. Everything you said from -- each other trash who apply to get as of 11100 text messages -- side of the year. Does that sound like guys that. He don't like you to know. A limit of what I think is what's -- rebate. Minimum. Yeah engulfing said he was it not reciprocating probably use the same. Same -- the terms as is is entered so do whatever whatever gets said about -- Richie and current NATO said an MB -- -- here if Jonathan Martin speaks now after this. Let's summarize some of the Mea culpa as he -- really applauding quickly -- If you're gonna pick one guy and what he said I'm not doing anything in his lawyer's been speaking there's a few left the team. With and without an excuse who has union. Case of that so that's also something that. Bed. I've talked to someone pretty close Russian very close a situation dollar Miami. And they received text messages along with same lines that when they finally got in touch with them -- -- the gist of the text message was. Something you'll just warm lines of when he was so that you got to come back here and straighten this out and take care this mess. The response was something of to the effect of I can't they won't let me. Who -- whomever they is whether it's an Asian parents whatever lawyer who knows but that was just the texts of someone very close to the situation. Extremely calls the situation receive from mark. Well let's look at this where a lot of the parents of the players weren't lawyers -- programs. I mean you know my dad Robert housing project and -- wrote -- housing project in my you know he went on to play but the rest of your mr. George but the blue collar. People it's it's a tough sport normally a league kids -- tough enough as a life wasn't tough when you mentioned the difference -- if Inco deal. If there was a perfect. Guys depended on. It's a guy with a checkered past like him for a federal would -- regard or if there was shoulders. You know -- -- tapes of fighting guys in Nebraska and -- guys when there's a Saint Louis and to deal pushing guys and she's gotta order after and we can kick out of breath and then there's a video -- -- -- of him at the bar with the -- -- that was golf turn that was like and that Goodman and stuff what would you go there I everybody's your -- and -- a -- of -- reflection because Colombia's highest. That was part of the nature whatever Richie and cart need -- -- news to hear from him Meehan has button down shirt on and all this now a lot of this. Was orchestrated but he acquitted himself very well. Here's some of the key things he said I'm not a racist. Although anyone on -- it's not acceptable for me use the N word in any situation said I'm embarrassed I've taken stuff too far I miffed I never saw it coming. Op when he went on to say. Basically to meet his tone was but the offensive line is vulgar and -- to -- -- -- was -- if you guys don't understand it is the real if I would it's. We had a guy named -- mobile or sprint football. -- the things that went on between Jim Carney -- voted to do to sort of global Conrad was was almost ready Hearst. Not like this when he was voted the -- I restaurants rose before but I don't reach marlin wasn't refined product we fought in practice with -- practice a lot. Right we said nasty nasty nasty things to go to each other. -- -- Laura's -- -- -- could think of the reef he wasn't able fighting at that time -- not. It was an it's physically. Capable anymore but. He would still -- from -- to. If a female war Laura -- from the outside looked on the -- practices you know in the world closed. And listen of people talking to the back and forth there have been holed my god and it's a -- of all the public you can't let it spill lol what we're to talk are you people as you have that he he. You give yourself out of that mode. Meet the other part of this equation comes -- with with -- is talking by the heavy physical confrontation. When he was with the dolphins. And what two point. They're those if you don't get to fight don't think you try and cardinal some times and specifically interior line position there's going to be fights. It'll locker dual locker room on the field. At night at the bar what -- you're gonna get into fights and some of your teammates. 99 times out of 100 for Illinois guy had -- fights and in my time there. Nine times out of 100 either that day or the next day you hug it out it's all good looks cool to a. One offers a line was to grab -- punishment to players or grab this face masks joining a liberal when knuckles likeable guys Christmas. But lifted his face Reza -- upper cut him in the draw on our sand. Really nasty things right so -- We get angry dollars are going afterwards and whose vote when he guys stand there. Well and you know say the same thing to do in the upper cut right now fifth of allows us to the guy -- you know domain and its other odd but. Stops usually it's popular and I can't I gotta remember training camp with a wasn't. Well at least. 7810 flights a week. You don't even regular season could be of maybe a fight week just. Because that's what happens when guys -- drugs are working that hard in that type of business we got to take a break. When we come back we'll take phone calls we'll talk more about this patriots season. Talk more about -- Kanye thing what you guys think about this in the break I'm curious how you think this might change. NFL locker rooms of all the attention. That's been put on it that's not forget the NFL is put an investigator. On this thing I heard Jason Cole yesterday. I'm talking about this a writer comes into office says that Philbin. And Israel are not gonna survive this that they're gonna wild world 10 well that's just his take on he's got to say you're jumping to conclusions and not finding out. Like not excused -- Who won't learn -- -- say whether it should know perhaps I am just saying he got covered and you lovers and those people saying that they're not wait until everything comes right you know people in his opinion is a guy covers the team that they're not -- -- -- -- to blame you probably got -- Mattel Monday -- -- talk about that we come back because intimidation fear. Toughening up. In the normal workplace in any HR department is just not acceptable. But the complaints filed that you know what's on record in the next thing you know somebody's head's -- roll in the NFL a complaint filed its acceptable behavior but will it be. Going forward how old is change only -- think about that. So we take a break we'll come back again we're here for two and a half more hours on the real post game show the real post game show is brought to you by complaints -- insurance act Lansky. They shop so you can save visit cup -- -- dot com today and a by post. Foods honey bunches of votes we will have our player. Of the first half of the season for the patriots coming up in the next segment and a real post game show was brought to you by AT&T. -- -- And the real post game show continues on our patriots by a week which turns for its Rosen Steve DeOssie with few. Taking your phone calls it 6177797937. Up until 730 texts. On the AT&T -- -- 37. 937. Interesting day in the NFL I do wanna get to the question -- -- With a break with the guys but from a patriots perspective. You know everything you wanted so. Can't right now Denver's winning seven nothing seven and one Broncos. Ahead of the patriots at seven through the plane in San Diego CNN and everything you want yet Kansas City at nine you know is on by patriots descent into Indianapolis who was six and two. Not only lost at home and get upset by single states. This is what makes -- 38 -- and -- -- which -- all the real people criticize him the ticket office to all the yielded devoted Steve Steve pointed this out earlier on the season goes how much of the playbook do you think their work. What those rookies who -- in. What at that time you figured. Via maybe. Maybe a quarter of a sold offense without -- out of it as -- -- -- I mean I don't know it was a without while it was a and then green right -- so. -- goes down. -- I don't know one guy can distribute who can disturb your offered them much and you know when he got three of four guys and their point that offers that route. And they still were put -- -- productive off the wind I mean that's that's a that's a testament yeah I don't really as a testament to go with a good word to use for -- that the patriots are seven into. Because they know how to win. And -- FL also an informant what -- they have a coach quarterback. And at some good defensive player of the Packers we just talk about the Packers in the break their five and four. In the lions now lead that division six and three. And -- when you look at all the other while car possibilities in the other divisions not to NFC east. Packers and I'm gonna struggle to get to the playoffs but. Tom Brady as bad as he was is inconsistent -- has been this year. Without all these guys they're 72 there's something to be -- for Israeli and getting healthier. In in people who have always an old bullets humorous guys give back you know to different from the guys -- -- -- -- -- -- haven't I had a discussion Bob Bradley's aides scenario -- I'm from. Local guy was was popular -- do they each of these you know his left Mosul and was last year. Well with a bunch of receivers isn't Peyton Manning's seventeen months old -- Brady was the difference. Great receivers got pretty good receiving quarters of every child was taken -- forcibly against the other. The other thing we have is that the Bengals if you missed it lost in overtime -- seventeen to Baltimore is -- recently we were pretty regular recent what's the rule what's via. Determining factor -- close it. Connecticut 04 receptions Louis Louis Louis 49 yard field goal. Fourth at one and he goes for mrs. You go for the field goal in Brooklyn went with the go for a fourth emblems and force them to went for in overtime and overtime it was about the 32 yard lines I was 39 at full -- and apparently did he would try either of punted to back markers have been shut down of all day. -- -- -- Flacco down all day or you try to get the field goal -- at least it's appoints auto makers quote touchdown right in -- didn't he goes for a you know what's interesting from the patriots perspective the Bengals now go to six and war. And don't forget because the Bengals beat the patriots they don't -- tiebreaker and but when you look at the divisions Cincinnati now is only one game. Head of Cleveland and Baltimore in the loss column in the division they're six and four. Cleveland Baltimore foreign five so don't -- the world champion ravens out yet of winning that division is my point. If they -- their Ford five and this loss now means if they play the -- again and beat them again. They only -- I regrettable -- a three weeks ago the bagels were considered one of the better teams the FC in the -- to Miami on Thursday night and they lose this and Geno -- -- -- to an election is who is great player and also have mostly -- content with that fact I think I think when you look at quarterbacks too I -- to use a Parcells term. Any adult still hasn't taken -- Yeah I always he's capable brings more than capable. Easy. As he made that step to Flacco made -- Cannot ease off Steve does Parcells I don't -- way -- use that term said he took a tees off today but -- Africa. Is there ever was that through hard -- moment when those of the giant dog -- oh maybe. It will go to Penn plaza Labrador out there it looks like it looks like what's the name from from Houston. -- job but -- an -- set now isn't one of the story lines in the second half here. That they're not that the ravens played inspired football team they give up Hillary would -- -- -- -- already home. But what is it couldn't you see them winning that division. And being quote the team you don't wanna play and the playoffs because that the defending -- is -- season as well conservative enough guys left on there that know how to win -- championship and of freedom a quarterback that could. If Flacco -- even close to what he was. Last year than all the sudden it's different equation but he's not he's not playing as loads of life. You're not getting I think debt provisions is forgettable movies you know there's with the VAC east -- -- in west they have seized his forgettable -- period not to be in the central Pittsburgh it's going to be terrible Cleveland's line anger in Cincinnati oh -- actor and pulled -- second. You can easily computer. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Group I would say that when you have -- a dividend or Kansas City San Diego patriots even do it in in you know. So you get one strong team at least in those other two -- -- you don't have a habit of tell -- if that either this doesn't matter or wrong about this when I look at it the wrong and what Iran. For the Steelers and ravens. The size of teachers -- no teams in the if he's -- the pedigree of those two teams in recent years and the -- was sucked this year. Yeah but again as an -- guys are matched teams still Palmolive of the world and -- -- in different -- scratched no off out of trouble a plague and so we got a huge argument against an argument either and I've always sure I'd be more collectively that Cincinnati could turn around that would -- I said the central stocks. -- Pittsburgh is awfully well then they're told what about the self. Hogan -- you -- she's feeling good fellas in the you said you sit on the -- -- despite Nordegren. I'm surprised that the -- because I thought that it. Before I gave stunt to me that the Baltimore -- Indianapolis would have been. What is one of those they have rated fifth the fourth in the NFL and they beat. Three best teams in football right -- started discussion talking about Joseph Flacco today after they're gonna make a run you're right twenty of 3640. Yards this defended his average is his average per throw. Three yards he's today -- two touchdowns and two interceptions. Andy don't regulate numbers two and you know different any adult usage around Texan resort to the press. I. Soaked to the question we -- before the break. How will this -- Steve you brought up a good point no matter how was brought to the attention who's trying to make -- name -- -- once the bullying and hazing once that storyline get out there. What was may want to -- image the machine the World Series is over in this story was the only story it was on ABC CBS and NBC nightly news. All the schools are among other stuff so everybody had to -- and it it was a story as you mentioned off the top -- -- couldn't agree more because that hazing bullying and racism and it. People felt like this could be any workplace in America we talked a lot about on a -- locker rooms art. But how will NFL locker rooms changing your opinion now because of all the attention this story is -- I'll tell you how little change and I'll tell you why don't change they will absolutely. Start clamping down on a lot of things that that that are commonplace. In -- locker -- generous similar -- the dinners or what -- went almost a -- gonna -- -- knew that that 151000 is about well let's just -- to -- big talk about the of the 151000 dollars of that Martin had the eight. What they didn't bother tell you was that. That was the trip that was planned and paid for -- and he would said he was going on and then backed out of the last minute noted that I got -- after the date was already cornerback got a heck couldn't back out after certain and he tried to. He was already committed to that committed to with -- modern story we can all relate to write me on his Fred tried to pull that and it doesn't all the time but you know -- -- -- -- Obama two points -- expect would would be to those who do they're going to him implement certain rules to eliminate as much as they possibly can't. And I'll tell you the reason why not because they think though because they care about what really goes on -- what they care about. Is the same reason they've changed. Image will blow -- we want to. Big change along the rules in the NFL the on field rules. To promote -- the reason they do that is because they know they have lost we are NFL fans were gonna watch I don't care if it's. A Jacksonville Tennessee if it's only game on nominal launch. They have -- we were in the fold. What they needed was what they mean is getting more of the casual fans how do you do that you do that with points. That's why they made -- to -- -- while it's all points points points points Talbot scored now. The and the same way that they -- your approach this is. They can't allow the casual -- to be turned off by the idea of the NFL locker room is full bullies and racist and people who qualities. Young players they can't let that happen because they'll lose the casual fans. The hard core fans they got were done were sold were it. That's -- they can change along the rules soccer ball there do that we're still gonna watch -- football doesn't matter. In a point being true even if in colored needle didn't do any of these things there's still gonna push. The brand -- clings cleanse this thing for your maybe your -- from football hill at the tobacco lawsuit. Install and will will be a little bar him from I think a bottle let me -- I don't will fold to officially -- -- -- the -- -- -- -- -- -- An unspoken. Hesitant to hire him thinking you know what I don't think he's done. What do you play more for I would think so too Adobe it'll tradition that you're gonna push towards it I think the he's he looks a democratic leaders not to fold -- in a future -- if -- It's question. Who did this who said the stuff my lawyer figured out in all of this and that he's -- wanna -- so after all if you report and his whole team testifies in his favor. And yes that India as the detects messes it showed a -- back a bit -- back and forth with for a lot of -- for a long period well I'm. OK I met him at sixty he could say that's -- problem as you could say like racist and you know that if you should racist. What you should Summers a whole place -- clashed on their Smart that it wouldn't give you achieve so let's try to see how this is gonna play out. The question I asked you guys is how will NFL locker rooms change. And now with a lead change and as we think about that. Let's predict what might happen. Let's say Jonathan mark to me this is a huge difference of Jonathan Martin continues to pursue this or if he doesn't. From all I've learned from the picture -- pain from what we're talking about today Almonte is important this can although he's got other people as a hunter has several rounds -- -- -- just fade. Often go away no no we won't know we won't because them the money won't allow him -- too much money on the table as a rule of as the law in Florida a ball -- workplace -- he could be he could end up with three times. His salary because if you. If if if there was. Culture of those things and was talked about inside the locker room those -- workplace laws there there's all sorts of things on the court the real question is -- we don't know one way or the other. The real question is does he want to play football. If -- wants to play football if saudis. It's difficult to -- a possible vote. Could he come back and play football coach you know if you're just I don't know guys they -- you couldn't -- butcher agency couldn't I asked you if you wanted to right that's the question. If he doesn't want to. And then the vibe with the advice of his lawyers and whoever else is advising him. Saying OK listen here's your way out and you can still get a good -- Cash isn't out there we're not to figure them out he may not be able to get out like it's like to Bronx -- my you can't leave because appears behind instigating this. Let's say let's just say -- don't. There's everything that we're hearing is true. It is agents set this up for him to make money and you know they were bickering back and forth of Texas in all those guys have those guys are friends. He's not going to be heavily -- -- won't let him leave the -- want to Spinal Tap room if they find out what happening is not exit not not even close to what he said. He's gonna be brought back and he is just have been Jonathan ardently. Let's see this thing through somehow whether it's -- people or not he needs either go to court. Sue or go there -- -- -- his -- to chuckle out of laughable what if he's giving advice from a lawyer that says look. You're in the driver's seat right now. You can threaten to sue and I guarantee the NFL in two of the Miami Dolphins will settle this and why we did cash OK okay that would be of court issue. The NFL will -- want this to gold course not to get -- -- huge page of course is already of course who would one way or the other may be maybe -- go forgeries as soon as big of a pariah than in -- Laughter so what not dissimilar -- -- -- pride and so what does Brian if he doesn't want nobody was viewed that way is my point over the it was a wonderfully what is Paul guitar has more play football would secure the football community looks in the pariah. If he does more play football. And he cares to get the money then that's an avenue about singing does. I'm not saying he wants to play football or doesn't wanna put four ball a two shall we won the possibility it may be great but you may be in -- -- won't let him go. You just all the heat he's leaving no rain let him go in less is just completely -- I want to clear my name and lets you drag this out to show that he was not one he was depicted as. He's gonna go down. As a racist and a -- Unless she's able to bring this to light and he might -- wanna do. And myself -- let's bring superior court does this conversation we got Mike in Framingham it's the real close game shell on a page you -- what you're -- -- Steve DeOssie. Mike I don't my friend. Hello Mike all my right there. It. Yet you're on the -- like speak up. Most -- the radio I don't know Mike -- let's go to revisions -- easy to Oregon hello rich Oreo. Hello rich rich is with Hillary YouTube shapers. Regional -- -- was on the phone 402 of the guys on. Call back after the break we'll get into it so. If he comes -- let's let's just finish -- we go to the break with this one of these two scenarios again. Question is how the NFL will change how locker room changed because if that's Jonathan Martin decides. Like you said Steve. And I skewed question Freddie Jonathan Martin decides. Would lawyer's advice he's not coming back he's gonna get a big payday they're gonna go to court then they settle whatever he doesn't come back to football. Is that better or worse for football -- -- things change in NFL locker room if there's a big settlement for him. Legs or listen what in McCoy Houston's including -- If all that stuff you know yes the tapes reveal his phone and -- he has a lot of support. I will -- will they settle excuse and I think that the best scenario for the NFL. Would it be him not to play anymore gold old mom and dad -- -- -- gradually get money and he's going to be a problem and I settlement go into business world. Yeah but then -- the best the kidnappers have to say you know. For the money is a criminal locked room a lot of it was in my head Butler -- blob because you you have to clear drug incurred you know. She's not gonna wanna go through the Google way. Not gonna go in which you don't need to know so let's play the other side elemental -- note not when he's not there are -- not looked at what we have here and as the press is important I -- people -- here and it seems like there were good friends said the -- spread of wolf what you all said let me criminalists in the sidelines -- -- special game -- on the stock. If they're Camilo is is as strong his beliefs as he makes out to be. Between them interviewing and some of things of the promote but he is not going away right he's not -- allow. Allow whatever legacy has left. To go down as Leo races bull so if let's play the other thing for second if somehow Jonathan Martin said screw all of -- I've elicited -- amok on this -- I really do wanna play football right appoints Steve. The doors still open for him to combat some choices two choices you -- you you you grab your offensive line. Your offensive line coach you sit room you come back and say look guys. This thing got away from me I apologize. I want to be part of what's going on. And and it's not going to be like and was in the past. The guys won't give them a chance. The guys want him a chance we love second stories that I can't America I think after what they've added to one of their own -- all similar to like cardinals -- -- -- 21 of my boys are vibrant your shoes are -- what Novo rope Iranian operatives. I would never. Ever X affected if he did it became general general of the world pulled I got to god -- tennis has to face look I did I do I gotta -- -- -- merely. I got it over my head. I'm really sorry I didn't know -- the I would forgive him. But I never trust them to be my comic view you know connected to -- booklet but let's be honest here if he wants a second chance inning happened in my -- Unless is it the -- only ours -- and that's why via via phone Steve Ross the owner of the team. Am I really bringing him down he might not have a choice with the -- for the welcome back to the gulf well can. Did you have a choice winning column. Oh really to give up on old really -- real tariffs violate all they've done our job employers try real and it all back we love you go home. In your playbook wouldn't be the coach wants to see all you missed the block that well it's very nice he's a tenacious advocate of its Cowell wants to see if he wants to come. Back to the dolphins. He has to -- it's his decision it's not Miami's decision it's not the NFL's decision it's his decision. I market still in -- and TB you guys are up next when we come back this is the real post game show it's presented. 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