Nov 10, 2013|
The news in general, not just sports media, has been obsessed with the Richie Incognito/Jonathan Martin saga ... but what is the real story? Dale, Chris and Matt discuss and clearly they all have differing opinions and views on a very polarizing issue.
Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.
-- -- -- -- A week before you know who is best on the team was he was -- Richie Incognito. On the first guy. Sanford for taught them anything we downfield. And -- tussle -- was first there. You know when they wanted to hang out outside the outside of football. Who was together Richie and John. That is Ryan -- held a quarterback for the Miami Dolphins. You would have to -- and out of the country -- In -- medically induced coma for the week to her on her old by weak ask your own personal check out quite weak throughout this is really one of those things that crossed over all this is this is the lead of you know the NBC nightly news as it points this week. This is far beyond a sports story. And it's not -- -- -- today or tomorrow in fact if anything it's going to be exacerbated today because. For the first time. Other than that rather uncomfortable. Traipse through the airport I've I choose not to comment it is -- This is the first time one of the two. Primary figures in the Miami dolphins' case is gonna speak publicly. Apparently Richey and Todd needle was in Los Angeles and being traipse followed through -- acts. Because he was preparing to take an interview with Jay Glazer of fox sports. He will run on the pregame show today. I have heard one cut ESPN radio played a cut from an earlier today. In which he talked about the culture of the locker room in the culture of the brotherhood. But it was kind of an innocuous. Sort of -- that they do date yet teaser quote. Arm and a feeling fox sports is gonna have a pretty good viewership when they do their pregame show today. I don't know where to start -- this whole thing but as I said going into the break. I'm gonna start with the premise that some of what I'm gonna say here is gonna come office idiotic and arrogant and I don't mean it that way. Matt Chatham has been in an NFL locker room. Has been a part of the NFL culture and know so much more about this than I do. I hesitate to disagree with him at times about some of the stuff and yet I know 2.0 but I know I'm -- uncertain -- -- and I know I'm going to. I do think that the National Football League and Roger Goodell are going to change. The rules and regulations in the NFL he's gonna feel compelled to because of the public attention the public scrutiny. He's an effect going to say no more -- We're not gonna do that anymore and in our in our game Erica it's no haircut no -- -- nothing -- over action might be which you and I think that's what's gonna happen here. Having said that. I think that there are parts of what has been the culture in the National Football League which I have no issues with whatsoever. Making the rookie -- your shoulder pads off the practice field. Telling the rookies that they have to supply the donuts for the Saturday morning meetings. Those are harmless. I don't think they are teen building exercises I really -- I don't think they are men -- in any way to degrade it a person. There is no way to to have diminished their worth as a human being I have no issues. The problem is there are some -- kids out there who don't know where the line is and no matter where it is they're -- across it anyway. And I think ultimately that's what happened in Miami. There were some one kids and one -- -- in particular Richey and -- need -- who know he was crossing the line at times but he didn't care because that's what we always. Most the stuff I've heard from people down there. America try to pretend to be a reporter and sources -- and stuff but. I do have some friends and Missouri some people represent people and stuff like that in my locker room of the biggest cents and I think you've seen echoed from the the half dozen guys who came out and spoken some of the team leaders aren't sold some of our. Of the young tight in action may become a couple days ago that didn't get much play but just to the effect while we were all shocked. But I think that's sort of the biggest theme that came out of there but there wasn't any communication from more than anything was wrong and I think that's. That there and park you know if it is a brotherhood to a certain extent but truly hard to say. -- back off if you never says dude that's not appropriate dude don't say that to me that's not right. That Morton has diverted is a guy who participated. Who did the season and stole the car in pre season and did the exact same watcher Rupert. Prank the week before. Who does back and forth he doesn't use it justice and for language him in the locker Moses -- a bit. -- is the scumbag with -- mouth and he has he has blunt saying it's not that he was not a part of locker so if I mean if we're gonna support we're gonna litigate against party miles and were troubled. And I that's my only sell all the way -- -- there is the potty mouth is that the same is inward beauty you know they don't language and you know you understand we talked about this before there's certain culture in the locker room that we don't get -- were not privy to you but when you. It's a slippery slope when you what would you get into that language when you get into potentially offensive language then you can you can understand why people from the outside with the -- Here's the point so. I agree that -- are accurate -- or should have been. All the way kind of similar to the Riley Cooper situation it's a toxic situation because you use him. And that in and of itself is why he's in the positions and deserves to be because if you use that word. You lose the argument I think in any political argument anything else a life if you say. You know like Hitler or do -- others like certain things in life that if you try to make that analogy -- -- try to introduce something children however colonel we're never gonna win and because and you can't make the defense well it's a locker -- you wouldn't understand exactly because here's the problem with that and he's not he's a beloved guy and locker room and and by people that are no you guys would. You're good about guys like Brian are lying growers like camera way guys like that and health. These are not. People that are just you know this is not north Dallas forty this is not the cowboys of the eighty's this is not some crazy locker -- the pain and it's not that. Good upstanding dudes know that. Richie is a is a big mouth potty mouth guard but also that he's a very reliable very forthright guy a guy they trust a -- they really appreciates -- or is -- -- complicated story more than just good guy bad guy villain and and in union elected the big hero. There's none of that really in the situation. The thing that I wanted to point out though that I think illuminate some of the so hopefully some people waterless and -- a -- her some of the soft for the first time. After here in the sort of run to the -- for the last week and a half. The things that are out there available to a player. If they feel like -- there. Having an issue and they can't deal with that the thing that's been most offensive I think to most former players and people -- -- -- now. It's how much and you guys know me I'm not a guy who goes on as waited -- Gradually enough to Austin. They have been bending over backwards in the last couple years especially in the light of the Jovan Belcher thing with a guy committed suicide last year. To try to help people with stress and try to help people were government welfare issues. There are out there are many structures many different levels and places and go and things you can take advantage in the locker. Especially I think it'd been intimated that. Maybe -- should have gone to the -- -- Jonathan should have gone to the exact council. It's tough if you think rich she's part of it. Think he's except as it turns out now we find out he had been removed from it. Because of inappropriate behavior at a charity golf tournament. You can move but he was -- of the -- -- still Lynn when he said all as soon as we knew about it we took immediate action we know what they did they removed him from the leadership council can submit to back just a -- to begin arm I'm thinking. The thing again that I think was has been so offensive to people who actually know -- the locker culture. It is all vote the avenues and options the Rovio Wal-Mart and that he ignored. Two run home to his parents and to called attorney and to call -- -- off the record source since her release releasing information in here's what it is absorbed sort of outline this for people don't ticker where what what organizations sort of made up. In each and every team in the league you have a clear program director director polar programs he's a god it's supposed to be. Switzerland in the -- the guys that you can go to in confidence and -- him go to the coaching staff it's not go to up to the NFL level. In the event that it's not crumble right. And the guy there are now locker rooms again you Thornhill -- Thornhill is there is available he's usually is essentially you -- friend in the building. The -- a couple of commit in the concussion stuff when it. The independent arbor that you could feel safe if you're like you know I can't go to -- -- the players to don't trust that I can go to coach because of the ones you know current crop and -- He never had want this force we know sportsman reported one bloggers amount about never use that avenue which is one and again maybe you'd never relationship with them and thought yet to try something else the Dora the levels. I want out when those soldiers NFL player assistance and counseling service in this in park came out of the hole Jovan -- thing. You have you get up to eight face to face council sessions per issue or you're at no cost do you permit her mental health issues you can call council. Call someone to report some issues that you have -- you don't have to go to these people. -- running home to mommy and him calling and agents or at -- stories is sort of at educating them I think there's a lot of people feel like at the violation they keep you went out and you didn't take it one other additional thing is they have. -- you can actually get -- -- place paid for by the NFL you get one half -- legal counsel. For if you feel that something has been brought you workplace harassment to Jewish and you get a half hour Beagle console it's that's again off the record and then if you -- that legal counsel you get a 25% off your -- in each and every on an hourly rate. So what you thought hey this is happening to me and this is toxic and I got to get out your that's why should go to so I think. The big issue that players have this thing no he had options -- -- all of them to be patted on his back. And again from a media culture that wants him to do that because he gets to be their story. So I think that whole idea of -- of its a safe place it's a good place it's good that it stays in house. Especially a situation like this that to all reports except what's come out of Jonathan's mouth a wasn't very much of a toxic culture at all so he went to the wrong got. Because we know that I barely knew about this situation and he told Jonathan what what what -- just -- punch and once again his agent called him. This is a man's sport and this is when you talk about being amend it's not so much fighting some. But it is in our in our culture in America 1 of the central tenants that we have a special legal cases is the right to feature accused. The idea that he didn't go talk to -- idea that he didn't look the mother ran the faces that dude that's not appropriate that's right more go to any of personally goading you please. In this open we've had issues with. You know throughout the years that I played when it agent calls the coach and says you need to increase is playing time when the agent says you're not treating your right. You go have a conversation herself and I think that's what -- guys so Roma -- Maybe he felt I don't know and it just maybe he felt uncomfortable having a conversation face to face with an economy with Joseph Philbin with its offensive line -- with whatever it is eight EU was dip the organization was made aware. That something was wrong no matter -- you didn't even -- just inconsistency or whatever you know he apparently he was the -- play in the you know with you'll for a led to believe. Would what really happened was got a -- voicemails -- block from laughing along. -- the same time that the organization knew something was -- Organization knew something was. It there was there were two at least just to stay consistent with what was being reported though all that was to hold of them she'd never mentioned the word bowling or he said he was having problems of this mental help stresses. With the culture of what they asked him specifically and even when he left a chance and little by little what is -- -- what is indecent but as the what is the coach you -- the proactive I still want to know what the real W flying -- -- reason we don't know that they haven't been as because that -- positions are common you know the only information we're doing is linked to Europe for the with portions were active as they did in the voicemail parts that don't walk the Dominican cardinal has Barack. From his agent I think that's why there's nothing from that email that doesn't make you look at the back then it just says -- why did you why I went up apart as a serial populated. Matt yes and in this I'm sure they'll that's why does something stupid and argue with a guy -- has been indoor and in the culture okay. Everything you just set every single thing you just said doesn't mean it didn't happen. Because he doesn't mean it did let me -- -- finish -- sentence because he didn't do this three didn't do that he didn't he didn't take the steps that the league says are in place because he didn't do that. Instead he had his agent called Jeff Ireland the general manager. All of a sudden there are folks in the NFL I'm not putting you in this category and does that present well I think at fault. And that sort of sounds like blaming the victim to me when you do that. Sort of thing here's the thing. I wanted if you're going to make these accusations that something's happened. It's almost statistically impossible -- not find someone else who will corroborate. And that's were I think I find -- most offensive. There this is 53 personal locker there's no -- time right down now than to say yeah Moore was getting to -- Why hasn't that person come -- -- -- pretty simple reason. They're still playing in that locker room they can't seem -- that's that's right -- this -- -- by this culture this is the unnamed sources it. But if you or if you're player in that locker room. And you know that what Martins is saying is true but they don't. And I've I want to do it if if Europe player in the locker room was saying you know they really did take it too far with him. You don't dare say that now because of everything you just said the problem within the culture the NFL is heat hole he went public. What stays in the locker what happens in the locker room stays in the locker room you don't dare you don't dare take Jonathan Martin's site even if there is somebody who says. You know they really did go to far with -- it. Again I disagree I just think because you had other ways to handle if there had been. An indication and again that the people I've talked you know their I think pretty fair picture of what was going down and they can corroborate this I think if you. The one anyway one of the most I'll tell you have a corroborate some of and I bet they're working on it right now. You have any idea how many hours of footage. Never got used. Hard on hard knocks. You have any idea how much video and if the NFL wants to do this for a good set of Rome. Because I promise you there's stuff that hit the cutting room floor where they go. Here's the thing so. The little the little flags that were in the ground that were made in -- make us believe the bullet and going from the media members who were. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- the trip the trip to Vegas it was roundly. -- that he had been somehow forced to pay 151000 dollars. The story that I've heard from them from the people down there and the guy that was corroborated by the other -- -- that's why it was there hasn't happened. Mixed so much more sense in this I don't wanna go on just gonna pay you fifth that was horrible thought -- -- homer that just didn't exceptional Europe must conversation last week. The guy committed to echo what a trip with dudes and this is a football coach of this is life. Imagine if all the other B writers had -- the world go to Vegas this weekend at this is not had nothing to do with he's for a sec -- He committed to go on the trip they paid the deposit forum and -- -- he pulled. And that's something that doesn't have a negligible culture but to do with personal integrity in my view a guy that pulls out to screw you guys this you have to -- That to me is a much more detailed account of what happened makes a lot more -- I don't wanna go on up and they believed that. My point is in the event that'll be that's story with one of those -- -- or voicemails or something but there's no corroboration of that Morton told me I didn't wanna go on a stolen depend. Memory and I know -- up against the break but let me just a -- I'll simplify even more. You've heard the voice. I've heard the voice. There is nothing you can say that justifies it to me nothing not -- and there then and there is not meant that suddenly make -- and -- needle in a little locker room leaders. I've heard the voice mail. -- nothing just the and that's the problem because language like that. Ruins a good argument and it does mean I think a lot of the other things that he's done. Don't cross this -- -- we don't have evidence double propelling and get -- wanna make this 44 regular break. The thing that I've found most offensive if you really truly wanted actually give credit here. I think some of the most responsible reporting it's come on this is -- -- in -- -- because I think they have a vested interest disorder right in the middle line. They don't you know they dig a little wanna protect the front door to a department say they are not there are durable and other people but it all the reporting that makes argue about his -- they'll release they won't release the direct message that says -- while they were just -- body. They won't release the other information that explains the other half of I think there's been a lot of one sided because responding to garner. The thing to me that the comes out as most offensive to really wanted to understand what was going on and Jonathan Martin's life. Is not reporting each and every time you given the situation what was going on astute head. How poorly disciplined football and and that's why I think it registers of players that know pupils while the scarlet about it but obviously wanna know how was he doing. He had give he had lost his job as a second round pick the week prior. They traded to get Bryant McKinnie. Rotting you've lost his position he was going to be the future of the franchise common logic -- You've lost his job and we were covering it here he moved right tackle they gave up six sacks in that game at right tackle. This blowup happened the next morning after they've left. Personnel meetings. And -- what if you believe. That the 90% of -- 95 Ari are you go distrust was not related to how we split -- fuels all the of -- soft not credible it's not it's not believable to me it's -- I'll say one last thing as we go to the break if in fact. -- text -- voicemail exists. It includes the quote David Cornwell put in his release if in fact it exists if they have concrete crew. That what was said about Jonathan Martin's sister if there's a text and email but exist this thing will go nuclear. And everybody's going to be. Officers who will quicken to insects a wild -- -- come out of us and Newton took her support that it's probably good conversation at least -- -- you know. The -- protects the -- right that's the biggest thing which is why don't buy your nfl.com is is it double harbinger of what the rules there -- -- because they are protect -- industry but the the only ones who report good and battle for both guys and and and I don't know I don't suppose that at all but William I -- I I pay very close attention who releases what. It's an horror to get a Walker's you don't always get from the simplest but all say is what I would like to see come from best. It is if you know Phil's gonna spend all these millions of dollars and set up these things in place and you would ignore them. That should be conduct a -- just as much because even though you may have had a -- wouldn't legitimate gripe about. What hurts the shield. Is having discovered -- station through she'd be back back source things and not through vehicles off. We'll take a break as I know were were very late and I apologize back -- more just a couple of minutes you're listening to NFL Sunday. Presented by the plants insurance at Penske they shop so you save visit the Penske dot com today. Coming up after the break at the top of the hour in the part of a program where we normally break down the Patriots offense against the opponent's defense. Because it's of the bye week we will just look at the Patriots offense in segment one next hour where they've been good where they've been bad where they're gonna get better where they need help albeit to that. Second segment of next hour we'll do that with the defense in the third segment next hour will do with the special teams. We are talking about what has become in -- there were two huge stories this week in the National Football League away from the games right out one Donald shot. The Tony -- sets story and the CTV this story. Got completely overshadowed by what was happening with Richie and cog needling Jonathan Martin in the dolphins. But they are two stories that I'm guessing Roger Goodell didn't like a whole lot. Another good week not a good week at all and I think year -- -- -- make the case that it's been from just have also Aaron Hernandez all the way through that yet he's been a bad year on the vessels off -- and the -- celebrities it's been the penalties -- -- -- -- a lot of -- they've taken a lot of -- this year and -- -- ultimately as I -- I think what's gonna happen here is Roger -- is just -- signal Catalonia. Because like I can't trust you to know. Don't step over the line so I just got to eliminate all of it as I said. It might get -- lying by the my -- -- -- and there is a lie I keep hearing this I heard one of the nit -- on NFL network this point it will where's the line. I'm sorry you know that there is a -- you know what though we talked to Matthew Slater about that this week and you guys -- -- one of the relief most. High character guys you're gonna come across not just in the and ultimately exactly just in in life and he talked about. You know everyone has fallen. Everyone has fun and you just have to know. What that line is -- you just have to know where that line is and it just keep coming back to the fact that I just we have guys like Slater. Andre Carter. Ninkovich look forty. I'd just like I can't imagine that kind of thing going on in the going to -- could immediately put it quite exist -- a white player in the patriots locker room used -- of course. Course of -- into -- -- anything had ever been around the locker rooms it was a allotment even extend to New York. And that's why it's a lot of the main again I think there's the thing that I got a little -- to I felt kind of odd is that we were trying to. Which argues shouldn't -- you're not used that word and I think that you alluded to it that the -- here that more in the fox interview later. But he did say his regret is that his biggest mistake because he's so hard to listen by the way the -- -- because we don't know what he's saying is is true sauce but I think it it is part of what's got him suspended right now and not. Plane while they do this investigation. Is that voicemail and and the big thing about it is using it or you just can't do it in a ticket cost you more problems than it's worth. Even if the particular black Niger and now with happened to be okay with -- which sounds like their work there's always going to be ten or fifteen guys are. -- -- you -- never heard a dumber phrase then he's an honorary black. -- joy here's the thing so I think that phrase is -- but I think I think horribly who's new to block from so that's that's crazy to. But I think there is something to the fact that it is sort of a progressive type situation the good thing. That. That -- an -- locker and this is ruling the picture of the I would rather pay that I think is much more record in my experience. It's a very accepting place white black whatever if you can play you if you can play it if you play a certain way if you -- dependable if you worked half. If you'll be they're forming every day they don't care about race and I think what that support early word -- way to say that the -- black I think. But I think this is a really good culture that really except the dude if you'll play hard for us if you -- tough as nails originated. But if you -- the point is if you'll do the things that we care about and I think that's a good reflection of society. Provide but that keeps all the other bad things he's done of the sort of suggest. The singular focus that you can be accepted if you do all the things that the strain which are all good things play hard be dependable -- year to -- be accountable those things are good stuff. I've had every place he's ever played he's had an issue. You go back to college with a booted him off the -- Nebraska is off the field saucers -- what -- saying he has had a problem every place he's ever play -- I'm sorry I'm not gonna believe that. All of this is just the -- really do anything wrong here was just a misunderstanding -- -- -- it fair fair or not he does have a -- I wonder how much -- -- -- O'Meara or not he does I'm I'm I'm saying it in -- we talked about this before you know guys who know him and just you know what he's a decent open. What is -- what is -- generally there feel he would bid you don't yeah it works perfect he does he. He does is not just it being here here's the point you guys you -- we live -- -- workplace is now. We all have different stuff going on and can you imagine in a locker situation or even in a situation of a dozen writers that you work with or deal and in -- or stuff like this -- Can you met which god would you rather do you in the neither good characters. But the guy that swears -- is crass and is kind of a jerk. What he's extremely dependable or the guy that smiles in your face. And and it is you can't trust is for or you could throw. An enemy -- suggesting that to Jonathan Martin's that's how it's been taken this -- betrayal thing that we but let's just say just take yourself. Out of LR I mean you're not. Be as good a player as you like him to be under I'm just -- to -- for -- -- -- -- and untrustworthy. He always choose the jerked ethnic -- out there are not meant that exactly and that's OK so Matt and Iran were untrustworthy. Means you know like I don't trust you you know you you're a liar you're a cheater. You're talking about his play on the field I can't trust that he's going to be -- right needing to be on play. It just means not a -- -- on debt parliament saying now that you would enter re back in the locker. The guy adequacy and voicemails receive text imaginable the text and voice Obama senior goes on this for saying the stuff you've got a private conversations were UB transcript sport on the I think. All of America with Smart story out and it it was Smart of him to do what you don't use that word but I'm saying it was Smart. It was Smart to -- reduce. Wait a minute it's so so because he kept it. He's in the wrong but Richie and I don't know because he released to the press I think he should have handled the city reporter Albert department this last a while I was just talking about saving people he did absolutely the right thing and I all of our running around -- locker bragging about it laughter I don't know -- it was trying to -- And and people who who look at. Harassment and bullying cases talk about the slot. It it's you know if I laugh about this and they all laughed with me maybe they'll leave me alone now I'll show me you know I can take a joke and and and he was trying in my opinion. To get them to back to how law. And it -- interest that at least one guy was an interest. -- remember now. This was after his rookie year some of it some day -- the text message that the phone message came last April rookie year was over. And it backed -- a lot of little voice -- what's your still -- -- to -- -- Remember the context of I think this is important for her fans that might not. I think we often forget that because. Not every guys treated this way. But when he blew off OTA practices. Which is what I think was part of the context this email. He's now been moved to left tackle which is sort of the preeminent position on the -- the and that -- swears that the organization needs to step -- -- it look we have a problem here with an individual who you -- -- -- need the -- and helping -- -- to -- like -- -- they need to be more proactive and -- -- we've been critical -- communicable lean -- that's -- the offensively coach -- Mitchell -- wouldn't it look we probably in particular we're also talking -- same general manager. Win eight in an interview at the Columbine ask Dez Bryant if his mother was a -- Apps so it -- -- -- India to your point I do think that there is this is gonna shine a light on the organization where there is a certain level of dysfunction and I do think that the loans and lose their job because as important context -- were also talking about attorney that tells -- of all the right brawn was defamed him all the -- economists off -- -- -- -- of some of the biggest complex sport himself. And this is selectively releasing all the separation -- quarterback they're way more of a story and a trust David coral I think is just as much follies to trusting him. We'll take a break and welcome back on the other side we're gonna look at the Patriots offense -- the break up the by the way what's gone well what's gone maybe not so well where they're gonna improve where they. You think they need some help get all that just couple of minutes. NFL Sunday presented by the plants ski insurance at the Penske they shops or use -- visit to Penske dot com today.