WEEI>On Demand>>Should the Red Sox this decade be considered a dynasty?

Should the Red Sox this decade be considered a dynasty?

Nov 1, 2013|

We discuss the historical significance of these three Red Sox championships this decade with you, the fans.

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Golf back to normal -- almost all homeland WEEI WEEI dot com. -- let down last night you get home after all the excitement that the last couple weeks. Kind of let those kind of nice it was like kind of moment it spends time Halloween. White little baby. All dressed up walking around the neighborhood was like where's the incredibly intense game. That's no game they'll get over -- watch the Bruins a nice biting victory overtime shootout win again let's say you want to try and it's got to say when they had their only to have to wait till Sunday is that in the drama starts again. And maybe not the I think it takes a while to recover from a -- and I don't even know. What happens maybe it's like a big media picks story happens or -- some incredible event in one of these games. -- hat trick is that Patrick bring you back does a no four touchdown performance four or five touchdown performance from Tom Brady. You bring about we need another game like the couple Orleans games and a couple weeks ago were picked six great great rebounding game come back from Brady yourself along those lines. We don't -- -- -- look at take some time and you know it'll come right back the patriots are going to be in the thick of things the Bruins are good team they're going to be in the thick of things this now. Around the back to that maybe a little later but the the this is going to be fun and exciting again and it just like that weird moment right afterwards where you remember that you have regular season sports you know I know -- I what's gonna happen and it was gonna turn around. Tomorrow you have the -- Of the parade tomorrow and then you can follow the parade. Watching the ribs in the play what I see that here belted -- says the reds are in the playoffs is sporting KC that's their name boarding gates sporting KC better Connecticut team. There are in a playoff -- out there but because that everybody make the playoffs and analysts I don't know -- Now are much bigger how to present the fight to get an -- How many teams are in the analyst. I have no idea I is -- twelve. -- -- mark is it when he said that I've been how many teams are an analyst you know and knowing you don't notice when he and they're going to be approving new teams coming in real it'll be like 2014 -- and MLS comedy make the post season. And sixteen. I just ran it twice and they don't -- don't read -- -- -- -- -- and record it no wait 16120. In the league make the play I get an important question about it but all playoffs I think they've been -- do -- for I'll pay when they take on sporting TCU this Saturday. Is that they take the aggregate. And that's you know about the aggregate Michael. I learned about yeah -- we aren't we talked about this before we talked about this a few months they play at two game series. And the winner of -- you can you can split and still one team will be the other because of the aggregate score right till you win -- and nothing but they win one nothing of you would do nothing to blow but if you went to nothing and they win one nothing you've won because you win the aggregate two to one. I'm not I'm not so I'm not toll like outraged by that kind of weird though isn't it so I'm I'm I'm fired up I'm fired up about the parade them fired up but their playoff game -- -- I am what time is -- you know I had been. In the morning. I -- I know people really like October really they put stuff on in the morning as that seems a bit playoff game and it seems way too early to be playing an important game. Then you're going to get our security at the European audience -- so what is the soccer community is going to be all -- that you are a wealth of misinformation I don't like soccer I have no way of playoff games or it could. It -- it night how do you know OK Andrea -- could -- in the morning when they get better reading ratings and in the morning -- aviation. Stated night in any event it's there's a lot of good questions still to -- yesterday about the Red Sox team not to and focusing on them the bottom last night. You I've had a dream it was a it was a -- thing and critique now what whether that's a little -- wasn't a sexual streaming in and it was actually said it was -- well -- the creeping up front and about. That the Red Sox have been such a presence in October. That I'm not surprised that I had a dream like that details are Fuzzy I was dreaming that there was a game. If there was another got sick of that to win this game and I woke up like 3 o'clock in the morning. Woke up sick okay they've got. Party won a World Series I mean that's. That's my god it happened to me before. And when they haven't won the World Series but just a playoff run in a lot of sports gets so involved in it. It just takes over everything and I can completely understand that because I agree I mean it's sort of -- elected with the -- plasma TV you get that image -- -- on your television network after you turn off you can still sort of see the image. That's sort of if feels like a little bit after run like that -- all even thing especially hostile talk about -- we've been thinking about forget other sports forget other things in life. I saw my wife last I was like I remember you my daughters -- like hundred new words in the last couple days and I'd seen her last and it just it's coming back to back to life back to reality -- postal tussle. Not that poor soul to soul I don't mind -- -- -- -- -- there right now. How good was this team and do you consider this to be dynasty that's a question on past this dynastic to a 13. World championships in ten years is -- a dynasty. For the -- is this the -- people talked about this later what they say the Red Sox dynasty. Of the ball definitely is a hypocrite and to redemptive -- Tennessee. It's exactly right well they political dynasty. I think you have to. I think you have to call a -- -- you -- -- having -- -- So you win and 30% of the time in the decade. You're that you're the champs. And nobody else has to. Ariza can't have a cardinals have to that's what you want that's what that was a hole. That was a whole lot of tiebreaker went one of these teams going to be the -- team of the decade were. A team of the century so far now in thirteen years into his entry would. Three in ten years is pretty impressive and if you don't wanna call it a traditional dynasty of what this -- were. -- organizational -- into the Boston Red Sox though it means that in 2004. He had all these all of them all the stars that you grew to love and admire. Where there was Pedro and -- laying it. Ortiz and Manny dame men. You know -- managing all those guys. Will only have one of them left Schilling Pedro way -- -- Phil thank you mayor. On what I'm left on his team. The common denominator is David Ortiz so you can't say it's the same core group of guys who have won championship after championship C yep they're. Look at the big picture look at the organization this organization. It has been good enough and forward thinking enough where you can put three different very distinct championship teams on the field. Over the course of ten year right so give props to the organization but also. You have to look at the one guy at the thread through all three is David Ortiz. The only the only thing that would hurt the dying the would you -- an organizational. -- and he's good point you guys -- guardian phone 617779. 793 set and I can't really argue because like I tend to agree with -- -- It's like almost a regular dynasty but it's definitely not not -- dynasty. And -- double negative you know what I mean there's no way you could look at this and saying no there's no connection because not only is Ortiz this game the ownership is the same for all of that in and I guess the decision maker changed in the Theo Epstein became and sharing in the but and the manager -- and the manager obviously manager Terry for the last there's a lot of people there's a lot of similarity crossover between -- four and 07 it was only a few years apart. And there are some crossover between -- seven and 2013. So -- 2004 and thirteen may not cross over them much. They both tend to crossover with the one in the middle right so. It does feel like a natural progression from 0407. To thirteen it's not quite as close together as the patriots three in four years. But if the patriots had won in 07 of the patriots had won in 2011 when they were -- Super -- but you think you would have considered that to be part of the same dynasty. I mean still Belichick it's still the guy at the -- relative to go Brady brides who maybe aren't exactly the same but. And maybe the patriots have had less turnover -- the Red Sox but I think Henry Werner Lucchino. -- and cheering and has been a part in the field have been move was not like you went out on the street found somebody with a completely different idea. You've brought in PO Epstein number one guy. And allowed him to replace you brought in Terry Francona as top guy and allowed -- to to replace. And I think you also have to talk about what what does the team do in between. Does I can you know try to pull car poke holes in my own argument. Go back to last year it some dynasty last year went 69 games that happened with dynastic teams. I generally know but that's the that's the out liar if you look at 2005 amid a playoff to got swept. 2006 they got hurt right around trading deadline and now only 186 games 2007 World Series 2008. ALCS -- to the the great that dynastic Tampa Bay Rays actually -- Very dynastic about Iran of one of the team that won -- -- that -- -- John are they also want to start up that right for our guests it's weird forgot about until giant iron into. Red Sox win three cardinals win two and then you go what the Yankees win one the White Sox win one in the Phillies went one and that's your last ten -- You know so 2008 they're still you know -- yes. Losing game seven. 2009 playoffs 2005 playoff -- 2010. No playoffs good team but no playoff 2011 we know what happened there. Downs stretch than last year so. When you are winning championships it's not like you were able to be a relevant they were never -- to go with an organizational dynasty. The Red Sox are very rarely and an relevant organization. -- -- I guess to accept policymaking but true dynasty those teams you look up to them and say we gotta do what -- with they've been doing. In some cases sure. And then other other times I look back -- the last time the last team that did that. The last team I thought of that way is probably the Yankees. -- -- -- as much support championship right here but maybe I was thinking that way. Because of where we live. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Once brought anything except that there will be a presumption against. Doing any kind of long term to take very long term deals that -- I think we've. Across that bridge and we realize that there is a a better. Way to us that money is free agency. And long term deals and not the best way to to build a franchise sort of orders he overtime. So there is -- very strong presumption against the that we won't rule out anything that would make it seem the team better. That's -- know this morning he also -- Tom Warner say something very similar to us yesterday. Saying look we we we will still engage in free agency and spend money. We just don't need to put it all into one investment we can spread it out a little bit more so. I wonder you can your point about being copied by others by being in other copycat league type thing. I wonder if that's the element of this latest version of the team that will be -- Yeah maybe but in particular Lucchino said something about you know free agency and long term contracts that the best way to build a franchise. -- part of that's true long term contracts maybe not free agency that tell you got to self championship. And -- did free agency they were awesome. And threatening they had you know what high batting average high on base percentage. And in their free eight free agent acquisitions or would not yet know I think you have to I agree yet I would make the exact same point. And I think if we were talking about it in regards to Sean sees article that we're going back from the beginning of the year and saying -- -- these you engage in free agency just not the age is not the old traditional Red Sox yankees way of the bidding war on the best players out there. They were the middle tier guys who ended up in the right character guy 6177797937. Grab your calls in the second our desires went away and here on AT&T -- five -- a couple of -- -- are saying -- this is a good one. So what does the cross over from 20072013. The whole theme of this year's -- race the last two years. The road to redemption is all you heard you can't connect to this year you can't connect this year to past years. When you've been trying to erase the last few years that makes absolutely no sense okay that's a great point except. Road to redemption getting back to. Who you work and who you were was Jon Lester who was part of chicken and beer John Lackey was part of chicken and beer -- buckles was a part of it. Dustin Pedroia was on that team David Ortiz and it seems to -- the -- The attitude. The a lot of that but the core still and you were trying to get back to where you were in 2007. Right 6177797937. Start off today Obama met for about. Obama everybody whose last cup for a month sort of broad and struck everybody thank you don't like don't everybody call Michael was. I know the -- Lebanon war World Series in nine years even though they lost the war. But is that how does that mean Europe and -- did dynasty -- little. Yeah well candles -- SI -- -- I know it's like I had this argument were before -- Buffalo Bills fans reclaim their guards. Yet when you get -- -- dynasty just from a conference at a story conference dynasty and well. But when you win some we get it right out of the fellow in the eighties that don't ask -- another loss to the lakers. But that did it lose its unit won five that it. Then you know magic went five imaginative both the -- yeah in the lakers of the eighties were dynasties he credible one and bowl loss to each other. Yeah that's fair like a public wine. Maybe if it won one set me off I want to look at Windsor would do the same as what you lose the cart okay. But losing Ford is I've just got to win one problem that got away and why in the car. Else feel less like a dynasty than the Red Sox who maybe just because they lost to the Red Sox twice and both times were unable to beat. And the two teams that they end up beating Texas and and Detroit in one of them Detroit completely gave away the series on the ball over the ballpark and give a legit win over Texas they earned every bit of that but. It doesn't feel nearly as dynastic is this stuff is out on 77797937. Have a Eric in Boston higher. -- -- how are we Eric. How you've done you've -- three years of futility you don't make the playoffs finished the last weight division last year how about it aren't. But dynasty doesn't mean you win a championship every year it means. Yeah. Public Khatami what does it mean to you though what does it mean and that's it that's the that's the question I know what the answer is what does it mean to you it's a different for everybody. Continued relevance are relevant to the fact that you're at least in the playoffs and the -- on every year I get a yacht and went and every year. But I -- And that they and that except for last year. -- -- -- -- didn't make the plant project your that epic collapse last -- -- -- and. A few years ago. That's part of it. As Barbara so late they are out. There again and again there. What part of the road to redemption he -- I completely get that just don't. I just don't see it dynasty in the traditional country term I think diet -- -- -- -- I think it continued actually -- irrelevant. And the -- here that utilities up just. There's no sorry you know what three years of futility there was one year absolute futility there was a one month in 2011 where they just totally lost their soul lost their way. And in and really alienated a great part of the fan base but futility efficacy is strong when you think about those those non playoff years. And what their record was and we're not talking about. 77 and 85 you still talk about teams that were an army 12011 Red Sox as awful as they weren't September 7 and twenty and all over the place bad attitude you know selfish me first guys entitled guys. Came down that last game when that last game we can't oriental those examples there in a -- I would agree that Michael. If it is weird because they're on the costs there's a debate here I don't feel so strongly this is a dynasty in its in its in its on form. You have to say it's a dynasty there's no other way to look at it. The patriots winning three out of four is a dynasty in that. In this version of the NFL that is -- dynasty to me reds you talk with the Celtics and lakers from ones we're talking about earlier no doubters I don't know this is no doubt I think you could -- not reasonable argument that the things that went on in between -- so bad war. War. So different from the years that they won championships that it's not a dynasty but it's also baseball. It's not like it's not like the NBA and NHL where everybody makes the post season in between it's hard to get to the the baseball playoffs and now that he's. Right I mean you really need to finish a little bit easier now that they've added the extra -- park -- -- Right to get a real play out your friend -- chopper that that while we aren't it's tougher to get there but it's tougher it's tougher to get there. Easier to get they're harder to advance -- I I would I would say that did it it does in baseball maybe more than other sports the fact that they had non playoff years in between. I don't know that it takes away from this much excellent 77797937. Hold on warrior calls here plus Jon Lester. We get to this coming up in twenty minutes Jon Lester going on the herd with -- coward today to rip Paul. Our fire back about the David Ortiz Derek -- stick around for 21 plan force alcoholic WB. Is -- team and a we have a lot of players with heart we've -- have the talent that we have in 07 in all four. But we have guys capable to stay focused into the lead -- things. When you win with a ball lonely desperate -- -- in two -- -- we have we have a lot of converts. I mean how I was supposed to be the guy on how to read it and to -- and when. And seven to doesn't enforce the same thing we have a guy that in the nine hole leader and I hope we don't want to biting time in 2004. So yes I put up good numbers but -- would have a lot of guys and all the numbers. They're so interesting to compare they are so different -- -- a point last night Mike I don't think you'll totally agree with this and I think I understand one of the flaws in it. John I think it was John -- I was unable to find it whether Henry Lucchino. Who or even Tom -- but somebody after 2007. Said you know what all four was for our parents 2007 is for us. Think it was kind of for with a feels about it. It was the it was -- settle for was for our parents 07 was for us and I was thinking about that last night if you believe that. It was 2013. For the players more than anything else now I understand as the Boston strong element to it and that connection to the city but. This was also a team -- for the first time outlaws the sellout streak was not the prime topic of conversation on our station and others throughout the course of this season it was overshadowed by a Bruins. Stanley Cup almost win the -- that Aaron Hernandez story the patriots starting and that all the sudden kind of first on the scene of this incredible post season run two World Series. Was this championship may be more for the players. Then for us or parents or whatever. The other ones were four. I would have thought about this that it's a good question I'm gonna say no I'm gonna say it was four. The city this was the championship. Where the team continued to try to make a connection. -- -- And and not just New England more specifically Boston. And they had these strong in the outfield. They they came up with the 617. Jersey right here in a club I'll never forget it right there and -- -- in Cleveland. After the bombings it they they figured out. We got to do something that's appropriate we got to do something that just let people know that we get that we understand what the Red Sox are. In new England and Boston and that we are paying attention we are not that's what it was me. -- -- it did happen in the 21 century city this is 88 Twitter era. Internet era championship where there's not so much distance between celebrities and their fans there's a way you feel like as a fan. I can -- I can connect with them I can talk to them. And they talk back. I mean this was not out there over here tweeting at the beginning of the year jump on board now there was there wasn't a gap. There wasn't -- perceived gap maybe it is and make a lot of money more money we do and they have -- that we don't have all that stuff and it's not nice houses nice cars that tons of money in the back up but. If when it comes to baseball you felt like you can identify with these guys and it grew and grew in the beginning we had those calls. In April April may on -- boring teams that that exciting. In the beer being kind of took off and it kept winning games. And they never pissed you off as a -- Their likable. -- not a factor pretty exciting. You know as a matter of fact and -- doubt in his seventh inning eighth inning. Game's not over. Pinch hitters come up and actually hit home runs bases are loaded guys hit grand slams is not just David Ortiz. Wow great team I I think that I think the connection became stronger as the season -- I can understand where you come from is why again I sort of feel my way through this I still think this was very much about them. John Lackey and and and Pedroia and some of the guys -- belts. The removed or or maybe insulted by the fan base over the last year to some of which was their own fault for the way they have handled things chicken and beer and some of the things John Lackey -- -- I don't think -- that they -- -- mutual flights and I think both sides were probably wrong at some point along the way. Are out on the year on for a give back to the calls and say. One of the interest in parts of Red Sox Nation and that whole idea -- that it did become nationally new. A fan base that included a ton of people with no connection to the city of Boston. We just became Red Sox fans -- to -- Seattle all the time go to Red Sox Mariner's game and you get all these people from the outskirts of Seattle never been. Anywhere near Fenway Park wearing their brand new Red Sox -- -- they just -- year two ago right just like -- so when you say a for the city not just New England not just for Red Sox Nation and for the -- support obviously the rights almost a cleansing of everything else and everybody else's out there'll -- hangers on all the people who jumped aboard the Red Sox bandwagon in the last eight or nine years and years. And they don't I'm sorry this one's for the city of Boston they are Boston's strong it 617. Knots and international or national. You know area -- Thought I see where you're coming from I think you look at a bolt weighs 6177797937. People IP. -- yes. Thank you -- our guys -- appreciated jurors in the discussion. Because -- know I heard it I heard you get to the -- recession on the way to work an important part of the comparison of the patriots yep. All right so. I'm looking out -- three the three and four years and -- that the diet you because you have mostly the same personnel calling for like from a player although it ownership group. With the Red Sox you know basically -- personnel in a -- -- -- Kevin but now on the outside of ownership. In your -- guys. Yeah out. A completely different set of people you know from a manager and yet Carol close with TO. -- -- -- economy at all new system nearing an all new set of people in the back of Boston. As well as that was it shouldn't you Arnie after the doctors treat. It's a completely routine up and mature at that they weren't -- And you know there -- -- -- Rebecca I think but in order yet another caller. About their definition of a kind. Yeah I got one where you're from I got -- from from a text about lets you go first and interviews. Are meant. Oh OK to definite definition is on what -- played -- championship every year now that you're in the championship game but to your dominant throughout the -- and -- the presumed. What World Series. Contender or the Super Bowl contender. And the moment that you get like swept out of the playoff to that your you know one team in the battle on -- -- -- -- you know dilated. I think it obvious that not a diet you're more what you will -- But we -- -- and I don't. Yet but -- -- -- except I was thinking of just trying to think of different sports OK so think of the San Antonio Spurs. I think they are considered. They are considered one of the model franchises in the league dynasty. Probably you almost have to yeah but they're looking at a loss last year to the heat. The you know there there have been times when they have and they lost in the first round. Austin first round. And if so is it over and then they're not fear if you lose in the first round team to lose in the first round are feared aren't. But yet they are some maturity in -- definition that I think that what we're finding it really can't be defined because -- one -- -- sounds good. If you just listen to a the first time than to poke holes in this -- texture and AT&T -- are -- possible says to be a dynasty you must all caps. You must win back to back championships at some point. And other championships scattered around in the non championship years must result in playoff appearances. Of the Yankees in the 1990s early two thousands were dynasty by the Braves and Indians in the same error we're not well. The Braves just 11. Right. Indians in winning -- have to wind -- back to back you think that's why mandatory. I don't you don't they don't have anything about it what I would do when -- about what you and every other nice. That'll buy them what do every other year tenure dynasty archer that's seems like when it if you can say here are. If you can say to people who wanna do business with you -- -- -- you know. Still business without. If you're going to be associated with a franchise. That wins a championship every other year when it every year but every other year you can count on I'll buy into all the time that absolutely and it has not backed Barack new in five and ten years but none of them are back to back to tell -- you're not a dynasty. Course shore up the Red Sox are not -- I'm not I'm not I'm not nitpicking here to make the case for the red -- -- -- to mitigate their Dartmouth -- and organizational dynasty. You know kind of make up under one you know may hit like there's -- there's there's an eight level dynasty and then there's like the the what he -- -- there's a mezzanine level and maybe they're on the mezzanine level of a dynasty I don't know. I just think that was due to -- nitpicking that was a little nit picky -- that you have to win two in a row that's a guarantee in order to be dynasty 61. I want a -- -- hours ago. -- very headlines hello spotted the man Chris is -- Rhode Island hikers. -- You know that's maybe the dumbest thing I've ever heard you say in my. The idea that there they'd be you leveled dynasty make it make note. Do you -- listen -- upset number of things that you are -- -- -- a lot how long. Like what we have a little three year did. You sit dumber than that this week I think so it's not a. -- Dynasty means pro on the dominant in a league. In a way that -- the -- -- revolves around you know among gears up to go go play against the dynasty of the Arab people when the -- that one like the last game against the last you know that thirtieth -- -- 31 team in the -- everyone gearing up for their biggest game of the year when they entered in the past and the Red Sox came to town last September. Who is geared up. But other than that one year don't you think that's Chris I think that's a great definition of dynasty about like he said -- want more times I thought it was a really good definition. It's period of dominance in the league the league geared up the play against you had become challenge should be obvious. I think that's agree I think it's a really interesting and good good definition of it but other last year I think that is true about the Red Sox even in years where they didn't make the post season. The league did sort of revolve around the combination how many times if you listen in national radio or the national conversation would you just hear the phrase Red Sox and yankees. Red Sox and yankees -- the -- because the Red Sox and yankees they play baseball at the Red Sox and yankees trust me being in another park. And in a city that does not. Have the same baseball history is this one. Any time the Red Sox or yankees came to town. It was a thing they would -- get around at the entire year marketing -- a Red Sox and yankees are here -- only times the ball harder video bill -- is this is where they would make their money on tickets instead of 151000. There'll be 3540000. People in the seats now you're right. Last year that went away but that's one year out of a decade in which that wasn't true and he could probably go back a little farther because it was brought 2103 and maybe even -- -- as well. But I'd buy that argument when LeBron James came to come to Cleveland Cavaliers to that make them -- Dinah. -- don't win -- got a website yeah let's start to you have to win a championship and then have all the other things that we mentioned -- which use it. -- out to be feared to be looked up to you have to win eight let us call -- Not a not a division title -- -- conference championship you have to win your league. So the Braves. The Braves or edit every year you know 11. In a shortened season. You know I mean it was a legitimate it was a worlds in the World Series whether they are 94 to come back -- in 95. Indians not even a conversation know. What she's got to win a World Series -- real. -- no we're gonna talk about I got to win that's for sure and I think look maybe this is like that whole definition of pornography thing you don't know exactly what it is that you know when you see it. I don't know that there's one clear definition of what of what pornography is or what order what. Dynasty he has. I feel like this team is awfully damn close to what they were to win one more in the -- would be guaranteed. And I don't think it's the fact that they were battle last year. That takes them out of the conversation 6177797937. Your thoughts all day plus job Jon Lester. Going on the radio today two real host for insulting David Ortiz who played the sound axle canal WE. Also what did you say. -- just turned a new shade of red I've never even seen that change what shape are right what shade did you just turn. I was like dark darker and now minority -- darkness darkness his covering for John -- -- Guys have been named Bob know what you're saying is and a great problem in the year. Column Bob later. While. -- -- -- spelled names are elected NC Laney and like I don't think that there are different today we get a break our sister or rattled me. Your first your -- you are not like that while the south of -- saw it as a sauce CA and lobby day. Don't -- too big guys. Several footers one out and played and beat -- yeah that's a Michael's offended that is not so much that you got the name -- of a great player that there should be a bond amongst gigantic human beings. When implanted in the NBA for many years at a high level near the guy on the Saltzman subtle but that's not okay. Thanks -- the -- you. Much appreciated. Some other guys did you hear him was him money now Bonnie boy chuck is well at 2 o'clock did you say Bonnie arrested Bonny joy -- actually got a Good Friday forming. So long over from that Red Sox celebration on Thursday haters gonna hate saucepan. I don't know shots where we love you anyway enough power to me in the phones here are 61777979837. Lot of opportunity for you guys of the few questions out on the table talking about a dynasty. Michael's created a word for what the Red Sox have done this year her -- a -- a new phrase and organizational. Dynasty. It's not quite traditional it's not quite with the patriots victory in four years it's not the -- Celtics and lakers of the sixty Celtics and things like that. It's something different it's an organizational. A lot organizational or -- the players change tennis players change the manager changed that the general manager changed his. -- the World Series. You know keeps coming -- -- the problem the organization kind of changed along the way to. I don't put a lot of people argument -- I know that the names that the organization of stayed the same. But -- organizational philosophy -- certainly changed along the way you go from building along the the biggest names possible trying to get Alex Rodriguez Curt Schilling Manny Ramirez David Ortiz I mean these big big names big time free agent acquisitions to pulling back away from all that and trying really a completely different style a different philosophy this year they've won by being the best hitting team and just cashing their way to a title over to try to win -- -- -- pitching young players. Other similar with what A-Rod McGregor going in that direction. When it didn't work they went to plan B and plan B actually was the more sustainable way of doing business in the -- the war. And the more sound way of doing business I think -- 2013. Red Sox. This went back home to where they were in the beginning remember one of the first signings and John Henry was -- James. This guy thinks about baseball monetary. Very interesting and creative way. And you know sometimes you disagree with -- but he's willing to ask questions and challenge the system and he's not hire anybody. Hiram. And along the way out you listen to Bill James and he set to his -- to -- -- things -- very close. And I told a risky last year that they stopped listening to them. In what was gonna change is -- from start listening to him again Ingram more prominent role in the organization. So that would -- well it's a very good so we're back to its so funny I do what we're back to values signings were back to seeing a ton of it to fatigue didn't do but they also got back to personality which is the opposite of Bill James Wright well I saw somebody I. Irony here to give him credit I hope. Given credit for a evolving a bit and he was one of the guys who. Who used to mock questioning. Him -- -- just a nasty some marquee. I'm not of this idea of -- the April 19841985. And recently and says in 20042005. He -- maybe. Maybe it's maybe hadn't considered it so I think any thinking individual is not gonna. How any thinking open minded individualists -- why said that in 1984 hour. And I must stick with it even though there's evidence that there is -- funny irony here though rhyming Jonny Gomes right after over right after the World Series talking about the -- war but turning it around these guys wanna go to war with. You know the irony of -- I saw Dave Cameron a -- grass pointed this out on Twitter. The Red Sox led the league in war this year. Like to try to act like OK you can -- this back and say it's just about -- what we doing you know what. Ball players don't need to come into our house I don't care if he bobbled and let's not gonna say it doesn't matter it doesn't matter couple of players but they -- Are are gonna look at it that way but what or what an executive has to say is. Okay we're looking for someone who does which you do right and you may not even think that they don't realize you do it aren't you you're doing what you're going to keep doing what you do they led the league and the war that here. That this is what we want so funny 61777979370. Lives in the car at him. I -- -- doesn't have much -- they met in the order that I agree with. But the bank that. Oriental and eight coincides with the united -- well at orient their players. Get the personnel on field. Sure just try to come up with something that that I gave. Gave a nod to the fact that I know what's different guys I know that that David Ortiz is the singular guy who's been here through it all mean he had. At a different manager for the first two championships. Yet a different guy protecting him in order for the first two championships. There was a different ace. Probably you know two -- a couple of different cases I mean think about it you know all for the aces where Pedro and Schilling 07 it was Schilling and Beckett. 2013. -- other guys here we're talking about Jon Lester and John Lackey. So I am just trying to point out that I know a lot of the personalities of -- but the organization army. You wanna go even further in the -- -- thing you can say this 2013 Red Sox had due to who different sets of -- Ranked amateur in the regular season it was it was at times -- was Lester and Buchholz it was just -- colts was -- -- let's it was down it was just Lackey for awhile them by the post season buckles was off that bandwagon entirely and you were talking about Lackey and and and Lester it is funny how. This year probably more than any other just the definition of who led that pitching staff changed more and I can also does does the there's a great. Dynasty dizzy and and I'm not sure this team is that are not on the return triggered figured out together and at the beautiful things Sports Radio that's one. Isn't it true dynasty make you. Change the way either you look at yours sport. Or change your expectations for a certain team. Four for example if you look at. I don't go back that Marxist this difference can go back to the Celtics since Bill Russell now but that was just a completely different league and it's just silly winning eight straight championships that is so it's never gonna happen again and it probably it probably just -- Happen again but if you look at. If you look at the patriots. So the patriots when they won their first championship it was surprise surprise -- greatness is wonderful. That's coming up to 2004. You had a shorthand for what eight patriots kind of player -- it's changed. You mean the patriot way Michael maybe it's a victory away. But it debt that winning led you to think of what eight patriot what the patron it was Troy Brown. A patriot was Tedy Bruschi was Mike Vrabel. It was. We don't care about. We don't we we we may -- -- will make it to some troubles but we don't care but that oh we may we may have -- the best player in the league Brady. We may have that but that's what it's about. Where if we -- we are getting back to we're playing football. Art art our linebacker place -- in our receiver. Returns kicks. Our receiver. Can play corner versatility we don't win have special teams matters. We come out as a team the whole identity doesn't it dynasty really changed a whole are glossary they had. Probably so the question is how to of the Red Sox fit into that team is how I've you know team I would go on to something else and looking at these three the three specific years in which they won the but some of what happened in between but. We were just talking about it. That marriage between. Understanding pay attention to statistics and using them to your best advantage advance statistics. Saber metrics going out of your way to look for value. But also looking for the right characters who can handle playing in this town this media -- this fan base specifically. I think that's -- probably comes from is this marriage of two completely different formally different ways of looking at baseball -- -- how -- -- Fit both into our into our philosophy. How do we make allowances to say we gotta get the right value we're not gonna spend as much as the Yankees even though we're gonna spend a lot of money and yet we need to have the right types of people. Back to me would be the Red Sox way of doing business when they're doing it right. Yet but isn't it also and I just forget about this Mike isn't it. Is it too early for the science of -- it too early to say this is what it is because. As much as we've given him credit for going out and finding the right guys. A lot of that was luck. It was you can you can say I wanna find this guy this guy this guy but you're still limited by who's available in free agency. So they have this thought. What they were still restricted by pocket Mike Napoli is a free agent we can get them. Sure can always think of we need this kind of guy but he is there. You have to treat form. Is. You're you're you're away you're two years away and it was just lucky. That all of the guys. That they want it was luck or just. Its pure. I'm sure it was all. -- Great deal what they had to -- I think and everything man and there's a lot of it that -- got to think about that -- -- -- -- -- Tom Brady in the sixth around the I mean that those god things are always going to be a part of it at that point I don't think there was a science of the patriot way in 2001 -- that they got to it after. Haven't stepped -- could make the playoffs battling dynasty but the course is right applicable for those who said you know you can't miss the playoffs would be a dynasty in the playoffs in 2002. And a comeback and they came back and won championships -- -- but I don't think they had it down. After they won their first super boy I think they start to get it. Maybe in 20036177797937. Go to Brandon Maine I'm brand. They get that go on Brandon. If you guys water called rip talks to dynasty that they get a look back in history and what people would call on state. So I mean that's the first attempt the mine is that mid -- yankees late 2000. There's five core players for all players in the he would Jeter but credit repair. And they were very few years I think in the last three years but it still had that same core players. And you go back like I don't know get on the back mid 19100 Viet yankees I don't. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- I would say it's so yes still it's the only one thing another argument against threats -- should be. Last year and admit that doctors straight they turned the page and -- home chapter. And they didn't make last for three straight years. It was it a whole new character or was -- a return a reset we used the word reset brought a lot this year did they reset it it's not that like they became a whole new team. They still on the bench Harrington has been here forever. John Henry and Tom Warner and Larry Lucchino have been here throughout David Ortiz in your -- some of the personality. It felt like they were getting back to who they were as opposed to developing something entirely new. Am here and we're still talking about on that that 07 championship team. You still had majorities still had Ellsbury. You still had Lester. -- had some guys who you had David Ortiz to a hike. It's a completely it's a whole new start we're gonna figure out who we are all over again. Now they had to tweak it definitely had to rewire. 6177797937. Brian is in his mail truck Todd Brian. I done that demands. Barnett has caught the -- nine instincts and he is the one count we've got all the way through market is pretty much carried us through all these. Post season now -- elections possible. It Brian -- I'd imagine. Yeah I'm glad you mentioned David Ortiz because I think he's a guy. And maybe we haven't. He's been around for a long time and I think. A lot of people have figured out. Or -- think they haven't figured this is Julius. It rode in on Taylor teases you know XYZ but that's open house to a we gotta start the talking about his leadership. A lot of people like what he does. From the press conference an episode with Zito to the phone this year and ultimately I -- the press conference thing I don't like our phone I. I hate depressed about not having not running it out to first base all the time and you occasionally discussing his contract. But there's no question. From his performance. In the World Series to a performance in the post season to his words. During game four. It would just his presence with the familiar Jonny Gomes goes on and on a bottom and in his conversations with his teammate on the road to every time this guy talks with his knowledge coming out and I have learned from. You may not like his brand of leadership maybe it is not what you would draw up it's not ideal. But it if you call on the leader at me. In listening to you talked -- thought of something that hadn't dawned to me until just now maybe it's something we can ask John -- I think we're gonna get to talk to one more time on Wednesday hopefully for an extended period -- -- an hour with John Farrell from -- I think there's a lot to do with them were hoping to do that on Wednesday let you know when that gets figured out sorted out but I. I would just say this to you that -- you make me wonder whether or not there was a conversation. Between John Ferrell and David Ortiz before the year began about that. Whether they sat down and and whether John Farrell read him up or asked him to take a larger role in leadership. Said to him look I mean this is going to be your two or maybe it wasn't at the beginning of the year maybe it was sometime along the way. I don't know whether this occurred but in listening to you talk about it. In hearing the weight and -- away team and the way Ortiz talks Darrell constantly exactly that -- -- just got to put it all together it's and I wonder if there was a conversation between the two or Ferrer said look man. The -- this thing. This is you. Go -- lead this team and and and take them into the next -- 6177797937. -- is in his car hiking. -- I don't. Ordered got stuck -- I don't report on Lester outlook called color there. I'm by they'd always be -- you know players used the let the degree of what that the right. Setting up. The place to pick a player restore agreed that while testing right. Or have we have met their states Yates testing in baseball. -- football that agreed to it and then doesn't actually agree to a yeah baseball and and Natalie that and and we were talking about this when. Went coward had its original -- There's also random testing during the playoffs. So it's not like you know -- -- Internet during the regular season in the -- to leave you alone. Just a death in the playoffs let they should that by and let some guys I should say hey you know what policies. But do what you do right I'm sure I'm sure there's still guys if you're cheater -- you are advanced you worked with the right people you can get away with you can test. In the post season. And the test does not pick up what you're doing I understand that but back to David Ortiz in the leadership. Oh really shouldn't be surprised by I think we out. I think Tito said. 67 years ago on this is where change. Six or seven years ago Tito that he would go to who Michael Roll he would go to David Ortiz. Couple other guys that Alex Cora was another one of his guys. And he said okay Varitek hit the problem I have -- they're talking about Manny is the problem I have. I can sit this guy down which you know how good -- you know how good he -- you know how important is to our team. I can look like the tough guy but it's gonna hurt you got what do you think I should do. So we basically had the staff the tribunal. Who would say okay well. I'll talk to. And David Ortiz is one of those guys. And a lot of times Ortiz talked to Manning -- -- problems -- were good. Were ready to go and and that the problem is with the 2011 Red Sox. David Ortiz. Lost his relationship a bit with -- after 2009 at 238 season. And Tito will want it to you pinch hit form their relationship suffered no longer -- -- trusted lieutenants. Varitek was such a good year 2002. It's so funny yeah Ortiz hit a great ground your club but their relationship had been for their relationship and -- -- never recover some others -- -- -- Varitek is because not because of had not -- is basically age -- Varitek he started to become more of a back up player. Even though it was a captain a back up -- it just the dynamics change he lost I did some of those -- I did see some people wondering whether or not all of the David Ortiz effusive praise for John Farrell. Was -- a little back backhanded way of insulting Terry Francona. Whether he was a -- Now that we got the right manager and maybe it was Bobby Valentine called include -- well it is but I saw some who were suggesting that maybe it was Terry Francona as well not I think Bobby makes more I think it's directed by the by the and you heard the I. I have probably about art I have can't play -- the government we got march -- a couple of at a football coming up in a moment that we play Bobby Valentine's comments at 345. Their absurd. They -- -- and he is. I don't know whether he's delusional whether he just has such an ego that he can't see the world for what it really is you got to hear the Bobby Valentine comments and Dan Patrick show we'll play those at 345 march layer multiple ball -- and -- WB. Source of football here a moment mark -- at the ESPN will join us for the wanna give -- away and we can do this. We'll do this now at 430 in at 530 as well -- an oil PP -- -- Just give away. Your you can give that way you're -- I am most certainly not. -- that I've taller at 6179310937. Two -- -- Boston Red Sox World Series championship app and teacher where the rally tomorrow courtesy of fanatics dot com shop from your couch -- fanatics dot com. The one stop council pre destination for its experience everywhere in the ninth caller. At 67931937. Remember that's actually have to hear the number. 67931. Or 9372. At a Boston Red Sox World Series championship. In future might be the quote of the -- what it -- I'm definitely got to him. It. It's a quote you can put that right into the impersonation he put it right and I am not a just put it right we'll do that again at 43530. -- -- great numbers and be heard this morning -- and you know what I will say. It was a very good impersonation at least -- one -- sound money. Vocal inflections comment more but it's that let's go to march whether it ESP and he joins us right now via the -- to outline is brought to you by DCU digital federal credit union what can DCU sea view mark or. Our great ravens aren't the throes of World Series celebration. I -- appear in a baseball family your son obviously a baseball player what did you think of the Red Sox and their their little run here. Problem was great -- -- America early thoroughly enjoy it speaks -- -- -- enjoy the World Series. And I at this spotless. It was incredible and I thought -- the popular it will accomplish was phenomenal about the pitching was great. There's a lot of foreign and you know for the that it -- -- they're so open about. He obviously the tragedy of the bombings and everything else just. I think -- -- you know unless you're yankees and hate the red hot. Or lets you -- -- Saint Louis in your -- corporal. Huge corporal I just think the rest of the country's kind of embrace Boston -- I was wrong forum on my wife was excited about it so it was -- -- on just to be. It did not -- and yet there -- rooting interest. But just that emotional connection to the city. All because of the tragedies that -- supper. In April and and to be able to -- fourteen just because you're remotely involved in that so I think a lot of America so that same. How that impacts of that -- to Red -- in. You know Margaret a lot of father son combinations in the same sport and it is not a surprising you think about. You know there was Bobby Bonds and Barry Bonds and even here we had Terry Francona and his and his dad Tito. Played a Major League Baseball as well. -- think about your situation where you played pro football your son pro baseball's anything is there anything that. You learn excuse me that you are from him. From a baseball perspective or anything you gave him. From football that he could use in baseball. Well I you know I think there's always kind of from a mentality standpoint and understanding how to deal on. Would be a professional athlete but you know this -- are always Ellis. -- what is first your Detroit. -- be broke camp and they send the miners. And he was really ticked off because he's so like you earned a spot on the big league roster. And I went down to -- two I would doubt -- Toledo. Just kind of hang -- for five days you know and I had this whole program plan you know are you got it conduct so. Special. And you know I was like you gotta get up early and they are good -- partners getting needed to work out -- you know I had all this this whole spiel. And he is looking at me like you're an idiot you have no idea what this schedules life. And then I -- that schedule with him for three or four days. And you know it's -- up with the crack of noon news. You throw something your belly -- -- -- the ball or shag fly ball in your delivery have yet viewed in the games that night. And that it's you know you're waking up now available -- -- -- -- to the game get over eleven yards shall regret having dinner midnight. And you know you're in your room you won't watch sports centers throughout all down it. They -- -- street problem weren't aware of like doing these Turkey go up and start and do all over yet and at the end three days I was so exhausted. -- I was watching -- like to what I told you about professional baseball and -- Is it opera -- all of you just have to survive you have to survive the -- and people don't realize. How -- that is disperse that eagle or five a night schedule and also you played the game. It is. They're schedule there are scheduled flat out stinks -- wish it on combo works. Talking remarks Larry here in WEEI ire let's talk some football and talked about the patriots Tom Brady. Does not look the same this year now you can talk about injuries you can talk about the changes to his to -- wide receiving corps and all the perceptions from a year ago that exited the team. But at the same time he is complete some 55% of his passes mark that is not Tom Brady accuracy or Tom Brady decision making as we've come to know it. What do you think is going on him. Well I think there's a lot of frustration there and I think it is you know I think it is. I target the lack of section and it's time to elect we're running game at times a lack of familiarity and and losing a security like losing. I'd go to losing your move the chains one guy you'll look for in those situations. And so that they wanted to happening. I believe is now all the sudden you don't have that same group or the other receivers there's been a lot of off target. Throws this year for robbery -- I think most of the -- -- effect that they don't have their god in -- -- it. He's been a -- it's been a revolving department store of wide outs and targets. For Tom -- so even when you start to get -- guys you know to an element that that during the week at practice obviously. -- you know Danny Amendola has been hurt the majority of -- it. Be it practice in develop that for the games and and I think that's more than anything I just think it's you know it dirt so it's a talent at times. From a receiving standpoint in this. Obviously in the opening chemistry and nobody out there working together so. I think goes to the biggest thing about Tom Brady in the white and the reason is numbers so order now from what or you know used to watching him. Why would you handicap a few teams forming here -- look at the chiefs obviously undefeated and you're here in Denver and you see the Broncos. More than we see the Broncos. Chiefs Broncos compared to the patriots is very huge gap between those two teams in the patriots is at a crowded field what do you think. I think when you look at. Or when you look at those two teams I would say that the discrepancy obviously I think the Broncos offensively. They didn't they can be a juggernaut it harms. But you know I think everybody has some weaknesses you look at the chiefs. There it seemed it's not that sort doubtful ball field there -- being gained on the -- best. They don't turn the ball over that you have a pretty running game they're just not a real and over the top -- play. I -- that -- that's where that there were problems and certainly strike from just about anywhere but. They're brought possess some some issues there off the line. They're running back position is not great -- from Texas import extra little bit so everybody -- law you know -- got there issues. I'll even though the chief -- no I was still based on the the offensive efficiency in the builders more points the brought those I would still put the Broncos -- a better team -- -- city. And and in both the -- intensity a little bit better than -- The pitcher's defense you know we we watched that game on Sunday and in in the midst of all the World Series stuff and found some time to watch the game. Got away from them early the offense really never got on -- against Miami and yet. Defense pitched a shut out the second half made the big plays to set up the offense they've been missing atomic guys but. When they go against a a premiere offense like Denver's. How do you see this Patriots defense holding up. PL it can be interest in because you're right they have missed -- guys -- -- guys step up and play. Pretty solid oak -- still think in the middle there a little challenged all our past persons in -- defending Iran's import. -- you know once you lose its walls were used multiple inside that make it difficult. That are doing the patriots they haven't played the lead group. But shortstop as one of the great you know one of the better quarter symmetrical all sorts start now on the job he did. On Julio Jones earlier in the seat and being he is he's drawn up front seat being great but. The thing about him as they just play they just play really well together and they had this. Propensity to make the big play it would make it would be like the big stop at Miami game when they need the big stops so. That support them and indeed deter over the created with that in the audible drill. On -- order of the new and the -- to me is that'll make him great ability to step up and make those plays. What do you -- -- you know Burmese wrote -- US or. You mentioned those interior guys in the defense of line and I know you watch the film -- wanna ask you about this. Are they actually not that good or are they actually challenged their or they challenged in named there you know and I mean my Vince Wilfork is a big name. -- obviously not a big name nor is Norah Jones but how those two guys playing. You know I think they're playing I think they're playing well on I think both of them are now part two and a good job on the inside. But again they're not. Mean you those guys becomes down Q but when you're playing against local and I know he has big name. But still when it comes to the sending the wrong. The guys who would she -- run to center. -- got you have to contend with and the thing about this thing about the guys at replacing they play hard. And there's no substitute for guidance can go out there -- radar -- are. But you're never worried in that scenario when you play those two guys. About double that you know the running like how we get over the aggregate or how insecure this -- -- portions import. You're never afraid to go long war -- war and then he can kick you choose. Don't wanna go out double -- Mitch you know wanna go out and and double. It was secure it chiller is due to him down there. Yeah not to Wear -- wanna throw much double teams because I'm not -- who won all warm inside -- that it might -- guys and that's where. Your defense starts to -- it. -- has that because now we go. Also in guru -- wanna double team and in just single -- those guys that were holed up work on and that's it that's the real difference between haven't. You know guys who were great -- guys that aren't necessarily great players yet. Mark good stuff always good to talk you will do it again in four weeks. Are are they are Lara felt always like talking to him he's brought Cuba DCU digital federal credit union what can DCU -- view I do wonder about that -- those two guys in the -- We have had too much of an opportunity to talk about them. They're the unsung heroes right now for me this patriots team what -- -- Owen Jones have done to shore up the middle -- Tommy Kelly's been out and looks like steel may be out Vince Wilfork obviously done for the year you're missing the middle linebacker. And those guys have have held their own he says they don't command double teams and that's true right but maybe because they don't command double teams they're able to actually get work done against non double teams are right. It means somebody else needs to step up on the outside because you're not drawing another defender to you but it very able to do what they need to do inside. It seems to be -- I don't know I think there's a reason they went out and acquired soap a lot of charm the Eagles and they need some help at the position. And I I don't think. -- can't they can't go out and and make another deal put. I think that's an area of concern meant they -- if there was somebody on the practice squad the ticket they can elevate it to bolster them. I in the interior line they would do if it's a concern are. Coming up here -- shipped back to some baseball Bobby Valentine. It sure sounds of David Ortiz was written him when he talks over and over and over again about how great John Farrell was this year but Bobby Valentine. Is trying to get his words out -- to wants to have the last word on this thing and what he said his unsurprisingly completely insane will play an axle and Ali. On WE.

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