Oct 10, 2013|
Jacoby Ellsbury's bat and speed helped the Sox win the ALDS, now with free agency on the horizon, it's going to take a lot of years and a lot of money to keep him around. Will he be worth it? We discuss.
Transcript - will not be 100% accurate
Well we just heard some game time is announced for the Red Sox. Game 1:8 o'clock game to wait fifteen that's Saturday and Sunday night we know game three. In either Oakland or Detroit. Oakland also look for -- -- tried to some news coming out John -- you heard him say that. No major changes to was ALCS roster from what he had in the -- Diaz to you looking at the same group of 25 guys and of course he told us yesterday. The Jon Lester would be starter from game one everything else is up for debate and I'm sure they'll wait until after tonight's game. To figure the rest of those decisions album Michael this is an -- the other day feeling. -- feel about tonight's game. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Some things are some things are meant to be and some things are not meant to be an Oakland is meant to lose to Detroit in game five. That's just the way it is. OK now if Detroit doesn't. If Detroit wins -- yes. I have never asked this before. From anybody that I work for hill but when asked this now. We're going to victory if we -- on the planet that as forest industry yes OK this show. I think W the guys who buys a house hurt them by I know. No word -- rising house that costs like one a dollar when he went five bucks a dollar. Why else you want a dollar house. While one house -- combined for -- -- I don't wanna dollar how -- you -- house that you -- why he -- dollar -- dollar house looks like. If it's abandoned and -- and a bright so weak and get a house picks it up a little bit around and Detroit. That make you read it out as a matter -- -- -- how much do you think you -- and how it also followed by if you pay a mortgage on that like I'd like to pay this over the next thirty years fixed. -- -- at the end of at all do you like. -- -- -- -- A -- thinking about it was even a little money in the you know stay in his note to stay in hotel despite the house -- -- -- while. Is a couple of houses at that price and I think what you and I would have to share but we don't have a caller there's one thing we don't have to worry about because. Oakland. On. Oh yeah they go was gonna win this game tonight you trust Sonny -- to do better than the other young kid Garrett called it last night Colin fortunately just didn't have enough to -- you may not 2000. Last night. -- don't let us now Pittsburgh file cabinet to all the different -- project on last night. -- I mean it you know -- just didn't wasn't he wasn't up to what Adam Wainwright had hoped well that yeah that's that's to be expected Adam Wainwright a cardinal is he the best pitcher in baseball that no one ever talks about it being a great pitcher. Why aren't yet. Probably America on the night and yet when do you ever talk about animal and I don't just mean like outside Saint Louis -- are young pitchers that come in May be don't know enough about them yet. But Wainwright has won two World Series -- a -- a part of meet each one of these cardinals' runs. You've never really hear about his name as one of the best in the game like early hander Felix occur occur -- -- so that some of those real aces and yet. And every time his name comes up in the post season the duty nails and he was fantastic last night. He's got some pretty get regular season still is not just like kaposi's -- the rate was up or and he's he's always in the conversation you're talking about. The awards at awards time he's he's a terrific pitcher but I think in the cardinals pirates case. Other -- the cardinals were better they were the better team and an expected to whip now in this case with the with the haze in the -- I think it's pretty close. I think that tigers are better team but the rays are at home. I think there's you don't win they'll put out. You don't think so get -- it is not pre order get ready for that long flight my -- you don't. Is that it is just not preordained for Oakland to win Detroit has has already won this game we just don't know yet. Detroit is already one you just don't know okay it's. A -- -- about ten minutes -- -- call. From my late in the show yesterday if you were an early listener to the show you listen to the call from -- show yesterday. That just kind of made my job drop I think both of us as soon as we -- it's not at all where we expected the conversation to go listen this is guy called this just like we watched. And then hearing some of the other people pile on and agree with -- what this guy had to say I thought it was not at the time I thought more about it last night. And I think it's even more -- than I thought it was in the first heard it you think these people that you think oh what do you think he's representing. What is what is. I have to have some thoughts -- follow -- -- of the call coming up in ten minutes we can we can delve into that. I wanted to first. Getting to -- -- -- Lou talking about earlier in the week and you can't help but think about it now it with the with the season where it is and that's Jacoby -- future. In Boston I remember when we were down at spring training first get -- first figured out they shall we were down there. Talking in my -- in the Red Sox on the other guys in their front office and just and what. The big thing in my mind is what are you gonna do what -- -- trade him at the deadline now they're gonna be here you ought to look assign them remember the conversation was like look if we stink but he's great. Will probably trade him at the deadline. Any other combination of things we probably won't we stink and he stinks then there's no market form of -- good and he's good at. Then aren't his right there we're gonna keep them where -- he stinks well what are you gonna do mean nobody is gonna wanna in this market forms though. It worked out that they were really good at -- it was really good and now you're really left with a difficult. I don't make good choices all that difficult. Because of what the market how the market sees Jacoby Ellsbury. It would be of it would be a tough decision so if Jacoby Ellsbury in -- does so his 2011. Season when you're 32 home front continues at 2012. And it puts up on 27 another Tony ninth somewhere in there and in 2013. It gives you another you know 28 to thirty. Then that number is much higher were talking about a great. Defensive center fielder with speed and with power those guys are tough to find. And you pay those guys about twenty million dollars a year. But Jacoby Ellsbury. Has not shown that he had had the ability in some cases -- short because he hasn't been on the field had some injuries this year. Had some injuries last year. -- says that's the case. I think he's affordable. And I think he remains -- the Red Sox. -- -- he's affordable if the other teams in baseball agree with your assessment that's the one thing and Scott Boras. Has played this is close anybody as can jump in today 6177797937. Also point out very quickly Terry Francona. Will join the show sometime after 330 between 3:30 and 4 o'clock. Terry Francona on our show later on today. Michael it only takes one -- got one -- team that's the problem you're right I agree with your assessment he does have the -- -- of the defense against -- for average slash on days. But he doesn't have the power so he's not that perfect combination any trouble staying on the field but it only takes one other team to decide that he is that important to their franchise. Right -- buster only yesterday saying he thinks the Mariners may be that team I don't know that the possibility of -- Probably a money to spend they got a hole in center field they need a veteran he would be great for them ballpark and huge center field left field even though they've brought the -- and it's still a big -- there -- -- -- northwest guy. If they make that offer of a ton of money it only takes one team it doesn't take everybody sending the market just pick one of the team that says. And they got here Andrea and eighteen million dollars to get to repair 99 dollars a year I think it's possible I mean I I I don't think he's worth it but that doesn't mean somebody won't pay it. Hopefully teams will look and see what happened Michael -- Who who decrease this year realize that you're talking about speed players over the age of thirty Chone Figgins and Michael -- the last who signed it. And because of the terrible boss. And born wait and see but his numbers were down and -- Well clear but a Pickens at his best was never on the par on the level with no with elves -- -- -- he only got a four years. Where -- 48 million dollar deals twelve the year I think it was -- I'd rather have Ellsberg and Michael Bourn to on the Michael Bourn had some success. In different markets. But with -- and anybody else in the Red Sox look. This that the disclaimer is -- the Red Sox win the World Series. Fans want everybody to stay we've seen that movie before you -- what everybody does that you want Jacoby Ellsbury back. You know Mike Napoli. Everybody got to come back got to retain this team because. They have such a great chemistry. Let me turn this. -- turn it's franchise around returned a culture around bring them all back so that probably will help. Jacoby Ellsbury if if you want the there's some grass roots campaign from the fans. That to get him signed. If not I'm I'm guessing most people say. Well not not really -- like Jacoby Ellsbury but not worth the money. But it is it's a good point Emeka we've seen it before -- the best example right after the Red Sox win in 2007 he's the World Series MVP. This outcry how could you not resign Michael they end up doing it and it was probably him so much and I cards already told you earlier this week it was 339. Three years during everybody gets the reiterated experimentally are -- more security and here again given me -- -- 39 I mean are giving you. 345 to fifty million dollars a year could take a -- more than three years I don't know on Jacoby Ellsbury I you know I don't see I think there will be another team that will step up and give them some longer just Caroline got seven or eight. But five sorry he's giving him five or six forget about other teams because what they know anyway what they know any at all. Their home just like you are watching the games just like us so why did they know in other front offices. This is this is the settlements ourselves. You don't know who Jacoby Ellsbury is as a player are you confident you say right now. This is exactly who we -- who he is or who's going to be over the course of the contract not going to be. Are gonna it will get to that I'm buddy terms of I'm not even sure I know who we years I do let alone or what I think he's going to be over the next you don't -- I. I think that 32 home runs I think that will be unless. Let's go to Colorado. Or is oh or or somebody moves offense is any remorse from other city I think 32 home runs gonna represent his career -- so that's. I'm never thinking about thirty home runs. I'm not thinking he's a 25 homers and you don't think you into going to some team in the Bay Area and finds more power like some of the other team -- from the other players have done. I think that it it would we're talking fifteen years ago of course I don't know Coco Crisp goes to Oakland all the sudden finds a little bit populace he Brenda -- operatic in a puppet. -- -- unclear how many what 61 thing. And assets -- it off to the Bay Area is -- a more power day. I think Jacoby Ellsbury is he's. Speed guy a great defensive center fielder. A guy who hit to a bunch of doubles at Fenway. You can expect forty consistently -- Are coming -- also all forty double speed guy speak -- over the age of 3050. Dollars for a long term contractors had some difficulty staying on the field. Thanks but no thanks I'm just I mean there's a -- Jacob there's gonna be a very very -- -- -- limit the very hard limit of one I'm willing to spend for a guy who's on the wrong side of thirty. And you're not and is and is has his game based on speed or less famous all Nat Friedman yeah. You're in Boston not Tampa. Yellow money's been out of gas resource unaware that so you don't have to worry about this all the plays lie -- -- -- -- -- can do it here but I can spend it elsewhere -- I don't have to just spend that -- -- guy over thirty with speed -- almost spend money the twenty million a year that's happened for Jacoby -- are -- -- you don't have to and and -- That's that's what you can what are you if you stop or -- -- what are you telling me the -- what gets the last report what is he used to put you in this car today screw him. -- toll on you and the department manager -- you are. Scott bourses toll on real ugly out there and knowing isn't it a law will be a topic you know liberal like a half hour to talk to him -- you empower why not empowered to talk to me in the price of this car. -- Take off or perhaps you and what can I enter your story I don't touch your manager and didn't leave you out of this got yours is gonna assays were point five million dollars a year are OK settle for a 151515. Million dollar how many years three years if -- three years yet on an art cut off for. Yes about 43 to four years of two million dollars a year I mean are you comfortable don't want that -- for years. That's -- going to be about my limit summer that range I think he's gonna get offered more I think he'll be offered over a hundred million dollars more and I don't think that's I don't think that's here. I don't think of on the Red Sox hundred million dollars to watch six -- 77797937. Mike in Springfield I might. And it didn't get up. I wanted to talk about -- program that didn't you know I'd like that the -- -- -- in the future. Someone out there is gonna have got to get that under -- -- that. We're not. A lot. Someone's that you talk about is that the cubs IPO. Is that the -- and that. You know what it is that who has. Via the president. Of the cubs at -- the team. I need something but what committees I'm position to do it because they. Wouldn't even have the money for it or not -- outdoor -- -- -- I was so let's let's come up with a couple of a couple of teams I still think the cubs to be a possibility the Mariners have the possibility the Yankees. Could be a possibility decide that they want to -- -- moving forward in center field for them. To have some speed at the top of their lineup with him and -- -- for some teams out there and again it only takes one. It doesn't take five it only takes one other team to say hey where when and how big deal. Arabic the the other thing was it a mystery team well -- always he always has a mystery team but I think the other thing you have to think about and mrs. This is -- -- varies benefit. At the game has changed. And and I'm not crazy enough to say there are no more performance enhancing drugs in the game talked Alex Rodriguez talked Nelson Cruz. Talked Jhonny Peralta to -- Bartolo Cologne or is still only game. But not tune to the degree that they were ten years ago so much more of a game. For a guy like Jacoby Ellsbury could do a little bit of everything it it -- the baseball game again no longer video game so that. Eat you look at his value everything that he can do is not just -- traditional. Fat pill popping slugger who's gonna give you forty to fifty home runs. Idea but that's what that's like no gotten me Liam even less in in interest in paying him all that much there should be in theory then more more players like him coming through the pipeline because the big time power hitters. Are dying out there aren't as many of them left -- -- that I got a lot of guys like him but they're still a lot of guys like him I know the game it's becoming war. Up more -- -- of the baseball game that we grew up watching. How many Jacoby Ellsbury types do you see in baseball. I think guys in baseball. Who do it -- very -- are better. You can't think of a lot of senators or better than here. Aren't atomic guys that are better but it doesn't mean that I wanna spend huge amount of money for a guy is gonna be thirty years old for more than for -- thirty. What's 383031. The other you're you're you're not talking about 37 don't I don't know -- but thirty years are also not talking about a slugger I'm talking about a guy who lose game is built on speed was -- SP. While I watch on Pickens lives that it almost exactly the same age good news like sharpening so I'm aware that there -- things used to be a good player and I watched him -- my eyes that period loses speed overnight. And he was done. And and what happened nobody thought that was necessarily gonna happen when he's 2728. How many times did you when I got -- what what what was what's reasonable to expect I think it's reasonable expected in the in the next. Three years he starts to a slowdown what they're liable RK 32 -- four -- aren't fun after that it's probably going to be too rich in my blood but somebody else says. Hey I'm we'll take him for five or six and give my hundred million dollars. I think that's too much 61777979837. -- forever -- Hey I didn't talk by the way editorial on TV for the first time in America elect across the key -- Patinkin young Richard Dreyfuss. I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing but as long as many to take -- in in a princess bride I think that's almost on. You know by driving -- -- look at the young drive that appeals trial today but anyway I wanted to say that's you know every getting all worked -- up about Jacoby Ellsbury is playing great but. I think he's playing his way out of any chance. He you what you -- the -- you played the last division series can continue is that he's definitely get a 20000006. Euro offer of lithium by the way you look read between the Mets are looking christened with nick it's watched it EPA had eighteen solved and in New York. Put another alternative here but I think the Red Sox early. They may actually golf all four of the replay of all for the free agent. And and still have replaced and crawled them you know I think. Forget what you do get it done the cloud could be possible. To -- if you wanna go with Jackie Bradley junior in the outfield. At first they can go go look platoon with. With the car -- probably someone else and even a picture you have to decide to let. Saltalamacchia go. They could get local -- and we we for the young kids to come up I think if they're gonna spend your money at anything it's going to be. Yeah at the gonna go for big spike because something like an appeal like Jon -- Stanton. Or are. That's a lot of money right that that's something where you're gonna need to deal some of those prospects are in -- have a conversation hey look if you're go look these are three does this change if Jackie Bradley junior is part of a package that gets sent off for someone like John Carlos Stanton. With that changed my mind sure of course I mean I don't know all the all the match nations that would go on after this right I mean. We're talking about Ellsbury in a vacuum but the world doesn't really work that way. Right and sharing in May be may know whole package. Five or six prospects -- Jackie Bradley junior and you Lima rarest of the other kids they have an end up with John Carlos Ellsbury in center field. We don't I don't know I don't know all that stuff so gonna have to go based on what we know and I'm thinking for years is about right about how much and will only give for Jacoby Ellsbury. In -- I don't Dan Shaughnessy Easter and spring training that you're gonna shave his head was gonna go bald. You Jacoby Ellsbury returns. Of the keys to consider who your Barbara tweet your tweet Barbara MTV may wanna go to we've got Andrew slash through it yet well now Shaughnessy would have to colony -- -- -- very much I probably would always call a manager. But yeah you make your appointment make your appointment for spring training because it's it's a possibility. People think that part of the reason. The Red Sox couldn't sign Jacoby Ellsbury went -- some whispers -- -- -- years would you wanna play here. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The Mets are looking for some way to -- -- -- the EPA -- -- can -- -- in New York. You simulate an interesting wonderful game to. Stay solvent with. I haven't had. You need to that it got about who's sort of way there. Overhearing. He's pretty well. I think we've got wrecked you know. We recognize in the strength of it. Detroit and went -- 10. Sort of reminds you a lot of Red -- From talked about his. Ouster. -- Detroit is a superstar. -- I don't know that you want to. It's early days. After ought to either be. I think our our. Effort in it. -- progress as low Michael's new favorite reliever on earlier today -- mark Lou. Say in the team a split maybe they wanna play Oakland may be Detroit were talking about the future Jacoby Ellsbury. Be a free agent at the end of this post season chances he's back. Text message as you guys are crazy you think he's getting it for five years only -- and somebody's gonna offer more than that I'm saying I would cap -- At four years that's about what these were are you married 313233. You'd never know me it's 34 to me that's about the infamous. The last -- bigtime. Aaron you know the -- but. I think you may be tough to figure it out the last big free agent signing it worked out perfectly. I quote the last 120 million dollar signing. Not turn them -- the name -- -- A two Jerrells one of them that work out perfectly and I you know they've made that don't win the World Series without Teixeira now but he's been hurt mean yeah he's faced a broken down so that's what happens only helped for a -- right -- -- -- CC help for a while not that's not the same guy anymore Albert polls will not tell that story why you wanna try to avoid these really long -- onto Josh Hamilton so you're so I think. -- kids today. There are a lot of idiots out there there are and they'll do it again and again but I think after a while some of the people who have the money well spent. On big time free agent and haven't gotten the return that they planned on at that over that the that they expect it. Probably learned from. Think the angels are -- -- Jacoby Ellsbury daughter to a -- countering that I would think now but on the other hand you sure fits what Mike's OSHA wants to do. Right fits better with -- -- and wanted them than the other -- and wanted to do back to back years Hamilton -- and -- spent another hundred money to them 61777979837. Johnson Northampton -- -- I don't know what's up it's my favorite show on your nation appreciates that life is so cute. So one of the things that occurred to me is that Johnny Damon. And copy out very I'm -- you can compare them in some way course -- -- what happened with Damon. While I was just looking at that do you would you want it's I mean given what happened with Johnny Damon does that you think that's an argument for Ellsbury or against him here. I think it's I think it's an argument against them because Damon didn't last as long as the out of fort in New York. Ron and I don't know a lot of it -- shorted it is interesting to look at -- here I just was looking at the numbers that Damon was two years older. When he left for New York okay -- he left after his age 31 season Ellsbury right now -- in his age 29 the first year there is 2006 Caracas his first year there was 2006 RS. What's also interesting to me is not that it's the entire. Did not that it tells the entire picture. Of Johnny Damon speed -- But Johnny Damon you think of him has been asked guy right stole the league high 46 bases in 2000 and Kansas City and then here will use in Boston. At 301918252729. And then right at the age of 35 that went away. He stop stealing bases and 35 right at 35 goes from 29 minutes 121191. More -- at the end. He was is his his speed essentially went away after the age of 35 now the power went up the stolen bases went way right. But the speed kind of went went to Johnny -- don't think of him at the end is being asked I think Johnny Damon at the end was it was kind of beaten up -- more power I think keeping us acuity while he was a power threat here -- but he would deploy and you know a left -- Guatemala Ecuador is once -- went to New York. He went to the perfect part for what he was doing. And the UPS numbers were great for him I mean great while they were hearing -- 57805841. At all 300 almost every year except the second year in New York. I mean Damon was it was a forces numbers are better than Ellsbury. He was a better hitter -- Jacoby Ellsbury more pop -- on base percentage -- PS. The -- it was just a better player than Jacoby there. Now you can question how you get to being a great player but the era and all of Ashland or and but that's a secondary Kansas secondary point. He was a better player with more pop -- Jacoby Ellsbury OK so what does that mean. Nothing I'm just are put it together and savior does -- it's not quite apples to apples they are similar types of players want that kind of reminds -- of the other. But Damon was I think a better. -- -- -- I'm happy if you look at the numbers yeah I mean you can't he can't really disputed and -- part of the reason you can't. Is that Johnny Damon was -- you -- known for speed and power at the and he was also known known for being a gamer -- clubhouse I played for played through injuries. Lot of times should have been on the on the disabled list. Refused to go like to play so. That's why he's had a lot more opportunities and a lot more bets. -- on average during the seasons because. When he was hurt he still play Paulus and having to apple. Sega and no job and don't forget -- you title game and not dictate our numbers -- that he had he popped up -- what from the same looking players he would check -- Our -- I mean what if your plane and that the stadium is a lefthander would you do the same thing. In who say like -- really directs. Is it really depends what the same thing is well we don't know what it is part of the reason why he popped up and it's not necessary because Egypt hitting the weight but -- -- -- -- I think a lot of stop all auto or you have a question -- -- earlier by them. Don't look at a player and it felt very I I think that -- 32 alt delete were right now he gets an aberration and not ever do it again. I I do think that you're gay -- and lots Olmert Egypt at -- Olympics like gold Glover are. No no I'm double that Johnny Damon you don't want them out. Where anywhere near having a good -- diplomatic. The power in the home front isn't crazy he had that 32 home runs season. And he's never hit more than nine in another season. It'll be like -- Angel at the recent ones and I'm not gonna question that but. Holt got out rate currently I would album back in a heartbeat and and I believe that the -- are probably wanna have them back. What would probably I think what's gonna happen in the 880 what a lot of time -- that -- hitting it off. About how all the Red Sox might -- -- the ideal vehicle is the deal -- cable all about 08 team at all. Eighteen -- did all it takes an entity old attic or exit one. Ain't gonna -- all in and actually you know what going to be about -- at all for comparison. Apple argued Welker felt very but it tracked into that. Well who's gonna be -- -- dancing -- I had to do you have lately that's a different story in a lot in a lot of ways in a lot of ways it's not like another team -- Am blew him away with a great contract offer that the patriots couldn't match him it was a similar. Similar offer between the teams and there was a relationship between minidisc I guess and to sell a lot of deep stuff but I think. With with Jacoby Ellsbury. Based on what he's done this year. No he did have. Where am -- a significant amount of -- this year I mean he had. The final number of Tibet for Ellsbury was its sixth and arrives at 57 -- customs and this and I've said -- earned 36 point zero so he was in and following 303 last year. When the questions start to come back once again knows this guy ever be healthy whatever. Had. Good production when he was out there and what he did in in the division series. Was credible not only -- It was series altering your 210 -- and -- he up here right if you're driving a series MVP. Probably go running appreciation for the player goes up even just think it's going to be too many years and and you IC text you're saying look at Victor Reno he's defying age as a great point great point 032. -- reset -- -- thirty -- but do I start to doubt it very and I am willing to take -- guy for four or four years I was able to take Ellsbury into his 34 for -- after -- -- -- really get -- -- I know that there's some wiggle room but signing someone to a long term deal after he hits thirty it seems like -- -- -- -- are monitoring your contract Oregon do you share. -- -- You don't think that somebody out there's going to be talking 67 -- eight years -- I think that they I think those numbers will be in play and I think if the Red Sox are able to sing noted that. May be other teams do as well but I wouldn't count on -- 617779. 7937. Merle in Westfield timer. Hey guys. You don't think that the rights -- or do something like they do what David Ortiz you know but he gave Turkey and underpaid admittedly. And at the end they gave them the money. Just to make them happy nobody agreed that everybody thought that they were overpaying him. You don't think that helped royal Barry Obama given like an eight year deal. Well. No now know at that that's that's held a bone that's a bag of bones eight yeah I like here's years a 140 million -- so. I don't see -- 140 million you know you're gonna get five good years out of them anyway. What would give them they work toward a mobile equipment that. I don't know Abby -- is a lot and time for Jacoby Ellsbury as I said I'd go for. You might be able to convince me on five but would never go beyond math. And I I just would be concerned with somebody else that there was goes six or seven or even eight somewhere else but not here you mentioned David Ortiz is why I'm so glad he did because we had this call yesterday. Wanna play for you coming on nexus call. And we got somebody hold on line one here too I think it's right up the same Alley as the -- we had -- plays Fareed exit blew me away I thought more about it last and I got to hear more your reaction to salt and Ali stick around Terry Francona also about 330 or so. On WB.