WEEI>On Demand>>Minor Details Ep. 69: Teaching/learning versatility with Xander Bogaerts and Mike Hazen

Minor Details Ep. 69: Teaching/learning versatility with Xander Bogaerts and Mike Hazen

Sep 10, 2013|

The Red Sox have seen a number of prospects make an impact in the majors in roles other than the ones for which they were explicitly trained in the minors, whether position shifts for Jackie Bradley Jr., Jose Iglesias or Xander Bogaerts or role changes for Brandon Workman, Drake Britton and others. Red Sox assistant GM Mike Hazen discusses the appropriate timing for introducing players to new positions and roles that give them more pathways to the big leagues (and the question of whether the Red Sox would "Zobrist" a player through the minors) while Xander Bogaerts discusses, from a player perspective, the different learning experiences of a player making his big league debut while learning new positions.

Transcript - will not be 100% accurate

This been a fascinating strange year for looking at the transition. Between the minor league in the big leaks that is a testament in part to the amount of talent that's in the Red Sox in the year. Guys like Jose Iglesias Jackie Bradley junior -- Bogart's Brandon Workman certainly put into a strong and productive farm system but. Beyond that. They've also shown that a player's talent need to be adapted many times in order to meet big league needs this is not necessarily a matter of square pegs in round holes. As much as -- may be oval pegs in round holes or something. Jackie Bradley has spent his entire life is the center fielder. But he made his big league debut in left field Jose Iglesias became the an impact for member of this year's Red Sox team at third base. Rather than his lifelong position of shortstop. Brandon Workman in tricked Britain have both been learning on the fly how to pitch out of the bullpen. And so you've seen a lot of the a lot of players adapting their talent to the specific needs of the Major League team. That being the case and the Red Sox prepare their players for that kind of transition to explain that we'll talk with -- Bogart's. -- are well discussed the matter with Red Sox assistant GM and former farm director Mike Hazen. Let's start with this -- the Red Sox feel that it's the right time in a player's career to expose him to new positions a role. You know one thing we focus on at least that is sort consistency. For our young -- player for any of that offensively and trying to build help the guys. Me gain -- level says. To perform or -- -- -- They focused on all the areas -- the game at a very young it in the First Amendment is that there are computer cost to. Milwaukee evil because it is your your reach seeking -- You know -- and gain to have been reaching -- always how we played. You know whether or not approach -- -- whether it should be at the positioning -- -- what it's going to be a fundamental standpoint do a lot of different fundamental that it talks these kids. At various stages of their life. Sort recommend this system wherever it is you know we're trying to build and consistency so -- worst thing. But -- the lower level you're you're you're watching guys to develop at a primary position in a lot of cases in a primary spot in order. And there's not a lot of -- if you want try to eliminate that minimize it many variables to the process. Now maybe that's being overprotective in some cases and it very well -- -- did in some cases or so -- You know on the whole it got a -- be able to sit back a lot of performances and it'll result of the vehicle and say. There is a process of putting in the plate bearing fruit for me. Yeah. Even even at the numbers are there and that's one of the the main drivers yours got -- -- incumbents but all it pre order and that's that's your. And we of course look at it that way in any sense. What we're trying to at a young to develop a system. So we're doing at the lower level which is sort of a larger question that the college graduates. The root of what we're starting to do was build a level consistency. Once you select players started to attain her consistently that we shall we start to think that from. And that's where these sort of upper level but you know. But the fact AAA. Have -- in that it should be to spot where were chosen to make those. Don't so these things in public or or -- players closer being ready or close in promoted. And knowing that they're gonna -- and -- we had a good idea that it was on the on the on the radar Detroit. We started to expose an early were double play holy war knowing what we were have trouble. Is that there's been in the double. -- it would Q what don't generally -- second base and the third patient in in double play just. Early work ground balls nothing that we would work a player you were double like that either of those positions -- gonna play primarily shortstop. Or the -- or whatever would be. And we won't but knowing that we were to expose him to a position change currencies and at what on the report shall we wanted to start that process. But meanwhile we don't want to make that the sole focus of their in their activities without the challenge them. Is a player -- turn -- to handle this message to handle that. Your shortstop playing in another position. You're not being moved to another position because -- messaging can be complex perception that distributes in complex. And it -- altered the opposite. Fork in the data they wellbeing of the player and so we're very careful about how we do those things when we're asking them to make those changes. -- -- sitting there haven't -- and entertaining. You're not. A third baseman arc of your second baseman or shortstop but is starts quoting these other position in order to help. Maximize flexibility in the short run of your career to establish -- so the big -- and and take strangle -- -- a position. You mean that their versatility your your perspectives and -- spots so that's where sort of conned into the upper level. Getting to -- starter or reliever or traditional change for a position where we feel well consistency has been changed and that they'll be able to receive the message. You know. Having it turn into something negative -- not a negative to positive. In the in the world will be answered it and we explained that for the player what we're telling -- -- This fight to the big -- faster right and -- any player -- we believe the multitude -- exactly so in any player wants to hear that this. But we're not where -- -- never -- -- this conversation with them we can never explained them. You are going to the big leagues in two weeks or very rarely are we on the registry sometimes starter reliever which album. You go to the bullpen now surged two weeks straight in the ruptured well are larger the young position player that you reference to a lottery. Other guys that we move around and -- Jackie Bradley movie theaters open positions. We're putting -- -- -- -- -- -- leaders -- in -- maximize your ability to impact -- which is -- usually more options to get up there. Italy and so it's a vote. Having it -- sure about player. You hear that message and process and surely. I guess you know there's very others broader question then you know if you were to kind of introduced the concept. At a very formative stage of you know from the time that they get into the system. You know -- order kind of see it in guys moving quickly. Up the latter. You know wouldn't wouldn't that be something that would dentist become kind of a norm I mean you know shoot this is -- -- that you have the best teaching year. Or rather the the best kind of teaching teachable moment with that right. From the season insofar as a reference Bradley. He got exposed to let -- he made his Major League debut was left fielder Brandon Snyder are you signed him as a first baseman he went over to third of his own initiative to think. And ended up coming up to the big leagues as a result of that. Will middle Brooks ends up protecting you at second base which has been kind of fund deceit. Jose Iglesias you know again another guy who was shortstop. And that that one in particular like that someone who's a -- was wrapped around. That position and yet he got up to the big leagues and really helped you guys a lot because of the third base things same thing with -- Zander. You know if you would have those conversations earlier for instance may be with vendor Bogart and Greenville or in instructs at some point. What what you've been able to come up to the big leagues let's say one week faster. I don't know. That the greatest strength and and nor should it be of any baseball player is looking at the bigger -- You know we are focused on the dated today we take care of the bigger picture for the so it's sort of runs. Contradictory when we asks them to look forward Wii remote around -- go forward as to why we -- doing a particular thing. It doesn't really works that way Alicia it was a bit that we seminar instructional leaders are trading in the you're already become water utility players even later folks -- primary position in order to Mac so much potential for years now when your on the rest -- -- -- -- It is just it doesn't. They talk about you know not not it's not a war minor league team system where you're operating under the dual role yet you're you're developing your also hear that. Terrible play you know you're Greenville you're prepared you'll put an -- to your development right -- sole person or well. They're not interested. In in all cases in order watching it's productive from development that would normally think about way that struck from the development airport. To vote at all these things about your time we still have that -- is a very. So they -- I don't think on the whole we look at it that way is as you're getting into the big weeks after weeks. Earlier three years from now sort of ordering a little bit all wears a week from now triple it. Is a huge deal. When they're on the costs so that's where. That's again where the message is received we feel like stronger and more appropriately. And an end to relax a little bit in development are. Probably. -- probably do you know. Better or probably better suited. They played third base as much you play shortstop. In in double play this year as poster or. Coming up to the big legal lesson and teams played under belt at third base. Conversely. How much better shortstop is because he played all those in the shortstop double what we don't know the answer questions right we believe that he is -- much better shortstop. They would have been in the third baseman. And that -- -- and we were operating. You know we were anticipating. -- in the third -- is surely was more from action issue and so there's still that. Still quite a long and short which is. We -- as the -- in the long term at a discount from me to shortstop because legally single and we can do that was so players so that the gotti's son Troy. Brent -- you intolerance that are very stalwart a third patient protection as well right absolutely. That's a way to get to greatly I don't know if he told I will do anything you wanted to catch just getting you know -- put your position get up. It's a little bit on your doing what wanted to top prospects for any prospect witches. You know you're you're trying to develop -- player or help develop players and mutually players and everyday in the report that -- Defense that's -- and all of it's not just at the versatility. -- adult shall in all those other. So we tend to focus more on. Developing towards the everyday player at a primary position and then the utility value com comes off of that but it -- -- that away -- -- -- -- The players demonstrated the degree of consistency. For me there's one player in in your system right now for whom there is up for whom the question of kind of so bursting him as he moves up the latter. -- becomes interesting in part because because he's been a a you know a modest obsession -- -- throughout the season. A guy like rookie bet you know who was unbelievable this year right. Had you know had I think that he was kind of a Byron buck in the plate as -- has -- one year old and single in high day. And you know but he plays a position at second base and plays it very well by the way that happens to be occupied for you guys. By occupied presumably you know assuming that health goes well for you guys for the next eight years or so. I'm up by a very short second baseman. Have -- in a scenario like that where you do have. A clear long term guy insulin like about who's crazy athletic sell you would think there is an ability certainly be the aptitude for. For versatility. Would you ever consider is overseeing a guy up the left. I don't suck to nobody obsession -- To take yours using -- I'm sure it would be for him as well I should probably headed out the segment for. So your question you know it's -- it's certainly. Not the first question. -- -- externally or internally. And out of of rookie. We shall go and report. He would -- it -- he placed shortstop communion drivers shortstop on certain days. You know. It's horrible -- it's one of those things when when the target is exactly right. We have a -- -- and actually years we you know where visiting Dustin Pedroia an area physicians -- our. I'm so okay we get it you know when he's also treatment right now OK where's where's the -- We waited is so the question is when -- tried to do -- the sort of things you can. If you got to do with a little bit earlier we don't know. The exact trying to do that. I think the biggest stage crosses as you've seen any prospects in my abilities but we wanna make sure that and we believe that it is. Given although all the things that are quality of the doubt that the -- of performances. Is to the level that you know you start making plans to move them awful position. The worst thing you can do is sort of overreact. To a year -- performance. And then move I got all over the darted in anticipation of ascension to the Major League level only just only to have the offense. Not be what you saw awards. To a point where you you know now are you moving the -- over the place in anticipation of previous spot on the lately came -- When he had hit it well enough to make racially in the first place. And he gets stuck in utility ultimately right. You know that that's not the goal you know the goal and so that's organic -- will get the upper level portion of when you start to really look at. Okay what is their current -- of Major -- team realistically our our our. In the prospects. You know. Over excitement world where it's all so we immediately came next year. There must be realists or go to try and should be given that what are the number of our young voters bell micro level. What are we look at her here. From a characters airports that are trying to match of the defense of development time -- -- -- that I think given that we've. We don't out a lot of contracts are in the Major League level for extended period aren't really don't want position no doubt that. It is the one position that's offered now. -- unique situation for us. Given one. The outrageous performance. That show shooter alleged partners industry could be you know has such an impact offer the player. For -- what are sprinkled knows. But given all the things that shows. We we are accurate decision. And where I think that you raise questions certainly garnered quite obvious our awareness and where. And give it up close to -- the middle with our vendors is an option no matter what we were. Think in the short run we're still gonna probably looking at primarily the secondary and still feel like quiescent aren't still only able. If you're probably looking at time in double time in triple play at a minimal whatsoever or maybe you're looking at double or triple. -- their sports opportunity to start moving -- around a little bit wary and we haven't really gotten that part of it yet. As far as you know what different positions you do what you want to shortstop before. -- a look at that spotted at a church mom certainly in the you know in the outfield so important sure to do that true. -- go to movies slowed in the first base in Hollywood reporter still I like nine days but he does his ultra athletic. So you know I'm assuming so what -- the diamond. There's going to be a spot for him at some point if -- that performance continues and then there this year as a reflection on -- potential. -- secure -- spot them you know and then to remote field just like regular -- this year but shortstop stayed in third bassist agent. Second -- agent you know -- -- agent. We are finally got what we did and and he's yet Lockhart -- -- an everyday roll your crystal carving out a role on the team. And that hopefully the precursors to faults are also -- Talking with Red Sox assistant general manager Mike -- I guess it's worth asking as you do look at major at the Major League roster in the context of the broader pool of available players the organization to provide depth. How good are you guys and anticipating your depth needs. Vs what actually ends up cropping up over the course of the year like do you feel like there was a pretty good alignment there this -- because. You know us as we discussed earlier boy this has been a brilliant senior in terms of exposing a number of guys. Two positions that they might not have spent a lot of time out before. Yeah you know. That's a really good question. We'll talk it out as we agree is we -- to -- You know in terms of identifying those -- and then having a sort of play out. Chances of any injuries or -- hit them or the audience that you're gonna get them anyone's spot. I think we got a little -- to their third base for a little bit. In the and you had a surplus there. The -- third surplus there's so it's sort that ebb and flow goes on to the courses here and you know in new players become available to you and in your car solely you know even when you're in -- -- Maybe people look at it this way it again this is sort of one of our visit or -- bigger challenges and our -- part of one of the things that we're. Empowered charged with doing not just watching greatly gains it's okay well everybody's help me. Or -- or baseball. What sort -- And we saw it but I'm not because we're always anticipating. We don't have to pick out which you don't go acquire those doubters that the airport. Or trying to do that. Solar world devaluing your record your bank. Mortar -- -- your question or the specific nature will figure out in the -- We try to build much volume inducted in the at least in the position especially on the urgent. The challenge of it is what you have as many young players out trying to guarantee those guys. Develop an opportunity as well protection ability. Well knowing that they need -- protection right out of the gate and having those are other. That's when you sort of get into the big volume mission trying to fit almost got a triple double crossed the ball. -- democracies develop at the minor league -- Major League level as well such orders -- I have actually remiss for not mentioning one other the striking example versatility to -- namely a guy like Daniel Nava -- ability to transform himself. From being you know really primarily a one position guy and die at various points well in his finally. You know and as -- -- passed to a legitimate. You know three different corner corner position player that's been a pretty transformative development for your squad. It's happened largely seemingly at the Major League level although perhaps I'm I'm underestimating the degree to which he cultivated data -- global. No I think period it's fairly accurate and he's spent some time in those spots in the past. But not into the leveled it out of the Major League low that the Major League level this year nor what I say that that. You know with any degree of confidence that she would play as well and so those secondary positions. And that's. Credit for the work that you put them. In the creditworthiness applicable in every day you want you to walk there to watch BP you don't notice that you watch a move around during BP getting worked here almost ought to every day. Not exceed the successor. Is that even on the days that he's not playing host to the positions he's still getting work they're still getting the repetition but yet those well those types of players. Are so important -- court orders executed we you know we we try to find most players most is those players to be your bench guys. So more prominent nationally because there's so much more important play everyday. Where is brought more protection and certainly we're not pitching we're entering as much. To have specific protection for particular positions. That that'll within Europe sooner -- Stella got. For given day's most notably circular shortstop but you'll have some ability. Played maybe ought to reach two weeks in a corner outfield position and the shortstop -- and play once every. Week or ten days third endorse second you know and certainly backup catcher and maybe in but. You know you don't see that the American League having put on a daily basis so. But this -- this guy has potential. Our number level of quality of protecting Major League team that we try to Arnold got all the middle economic order that is part of our guys in the proficient multiple positions. One thing that -- it's kind of interesting to think about you guys have obviously become. Very aggressive in terms of shifts and and not I'm not gonna say radical defensive alignments but alternative defense alignment. This year more so than you had not been vineyard in player perhaps in past years. I am to meet that would seem to make the barrier to that transition to the Major League. Which is already pretty daunting I mean obviously you guys spend a ton of time thinking about it that's why you have the rookie development program but. It would seem to make the transition to the big leagues. Just that slight bit more challenging that there has -- So much of a sense of you know of using the advanced reports in ways. Have people anticipate location and positioning him in ways that you probably aren't asked to do. I'm at the the minor league level. Does does the existence of that of the of the very aggressive shifting approach and defensive alignment he gets used. That's a big league level at all Alter the way in which you prepare guys for the mutually. So a familiar question. It's not it's not as complex as -- and the question. For probably one shipping controlled by the church so the players now. Pedroia and drew working American least knowing that you or knowing the players they can run of about themselves. At this point you know they know we're going to be shipped and we are over. Erica in our place certain guys. That certain. How to read a book -- is always there voters older directs traffic. On the bench as story of the young player you can get your direction coach -- courage from you know former VP here also are gold or certain virtue. So I think. An end and then physically from a development perspective yes we give some -- -- -- that level is starting -- that these are start shipping around some of the -- pull guys. Specifically. With the sole purpose of political side of god of our target and -- like Carter left the current goal and our side -- sort of Beijing. Watch the game from coming out that. About -- and I think that's probably the most part ever been an insurer or not but I imagine. Seemed awfully -- about that -- a lot different. On the outside in there would be from the others that -- different you know there are quick to -- you. Especially if you're playing in the deep slot position in the health field which is completely unique. What sort of -- -- I think I think what would be most challenging. Is it we were trying to break multiple young players and wants money -- I think when your three veterans and young player -- charity if you watch old Archie the right move off the left side of the -- Where's where's spotter will -- true or middle Brooks or on the right side. And believe or say no we're social rights side now and receive the shortstop and sometimes -- goes over there and middle Russell shipped. To a deep third -- slash shortstop position. Or personal analysts and so the more complex. Alignments. Will result in. The more experienced defenders playing out of position. I think that's something that you can handle about one young player on the and she'll. If you start into multiple young players in the select a -- up being a little charity that you're going to be asking. Younger inexperienced players. To move in. Experience swaps on the field. -- not a mechanic but they should be more unsettling and get the ball right here we're trying to turn to leadership on. I don't do that trust that -- -- at second base. -- never -- the shortstop position from second base. Third base and he now wears somebody like little Brooks who's done it now. Is going to be you know it's going to be different but there -- -- And positioned him to become your second base -- yeah. -- and then we learn -- -- every year. So I did it was I get the idea of cultivating a guy at his best position so that you don't hinder his offense development. In in his move up. Most of the rungs of the minority -- With regard to pitchers you know it's been an interest in your from that vantage point as well Brandon Workman Terry Britton ruby Delores. All of them are more or less exposed I mean ruby had an had some exposure of the minor league level. Two pitching out of the bullpen or at least that as a Major League level while the Dodgers were showcasing import you last year. Government you know workmen had exposure to a degree in college to pitching out of the bullpen and in the cape league I think -- been years. And that Britain had never pitched out of the bullpen in his life. Before it started doing so with a Major League level. How how difficult you know well one thing that was striking to me was that John Ferrell said recently. At -- at a public event that. You know that he saw clearly like Britain being an idea being a reliever based on arm action based on stuff. You know why why wait on a dialect that to expose him to the role where he's you know he's -- -- at least highly highly likely. To be able to make is mutually impact. That -- your question John and I actually talked to -- what went Burt was such. There's two reasons one is. As early particularly. You're gonna get one opportunity. More than likely if you're good you're in a war opportunity and that's that he can enter a dirty yearning to be exposed to damage. You come in and -- in the minor league earlier and you're really really good. You never expose yourself danger while pitching in the big leagues in the bullpen is all about danger. It's not about coming to bring innings and throw strikes and they want to. But great. Would -- that happened. Well as a coach you are not gonna happen every time out there's going to be days when got you also got. There's going to be days forcibly argue chick salon is immediately strike guys -- or your best dot CO walks of guess what I get the dog Andre. And that and how much -- dollar level. As a reliever specially college kids coming into a minor league system -- be when I saw it. So -- so number one is. The ability to -- to travel well if you got a -- in seven innings every day. You're not probably going to be unless you go on the run at Hank all went on where in Europe and for however lineage. He was kind enough to -- a few guys in the end of the year of the stretch every now and again. You're gonna get yourself and -- What you're doing or the opposition to a huge shock and still which are trouble. I don't care what -- what role in the middle. Got a purely social cultural historic church if you get those things out while in in my release is starting pitcher you'll get more changes and literally accessible. The -- is. The curious. You start development and -- reliever if you're only getting the chewing church. And note or two innings just total pitches and we're stressing the ability beauty you using commander fastball. Your -- you thought well great. -- And you might hamburger Britain. You know you have to look robust widgets so we're giving -- -- harder pitchers to throw every five days as opposed to every third or 4 April and twenty churches. You're marketing a volume that you need from a pitched on the dot notary. Well -- -- -- release should serve as a regular reliever industries -- right handers. That's not helping you you have to figure earlier -- -- pretty obvious situation at all. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- All those things together don't they are very your earlier part of march might -- -- -- got to dominate those were -- big league pitchers in the news reliever. Tab order out against -- career here so those guys are going to be developed. Feel -- At the major level -- -- reliever. They start they have to be able to almost -- describing for the developmental environment not -- and work. It's not gonna put them in a situation where. In this -- -- searching for a -- -- into the -- are borne the battle last year. Well you're left hander reliever coming in official in an orderly. Your damage is probably gonna get -- pitching more dominant down and out of the play. -- you're gonna stay away without what Britain box which a major blow it. Is good strategy or is mr. watch a lot of situation a lot about and they go down and order a fastball and that Britain -- -- breaking ball off the plate. Actually -- Because this far less -- you gonna do get what you really. Well sometimes actually couple lefties the Czech player. But there's one specific in our division where you know he's handled ball away from him. Very well written and a lot of money -- as true and they handled post which is actually looks you can't just sit out there. And I hope to throws strikes into income or get them changed -- to sit Blogspot sometimes he'll throw -- ball to your side. -- order or generally are so in those cases showing your ability to do that. Actually goes back when they were starter because they are miserable start to play consistently. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- elected are gonna go back to the dugout over the last few that are coming out there -- -- -- anything near the plate eliminated. About time for Skype -- there. The guy is waiting to walk we'll all feel and your initial trouble. You can't just do that and those finger again that you -- starting pitcher for the was tortured just being brought -- specific situations. -- -- devil's advocate. Do you guys have to manage workload workload as these guys are at the at the beginning stages of their professional careers. Why not do so through an end of season exposure to a little bit of bullpen work just so that in case there's a -- scenario you know what in which it's like a -- boom. He's on the forty man and we need a left handed reliever right now. Did does it he's not going in kind of you know kind of blind -- it. -- are you talking about changing somewhat -- Henry Owens right now if we get in any level to put -- in the bullpen that's in the paper next year. Yeah rather when -- but we have like it a year ending like a year rather than you know rather than let's say you know image that you have a couple -- gives built in to a -- first professional season right. Why not take away one of those -- the end of the year just have you know a couple of one inning stints or something. Because I think we're over complicating. Early parole. So I think there's a very disheartening aspect of the -- your role that requires. Specific -- and that would be. Now would be. You know but just take heart -- you know they're not in a development program or coming out. In the in this in the ninth inning -- in our eighth inning which -- -- one run game the state Robert. So that's that's the specifics still structurally that your view promote execute our game plan and get -- -- out with a specific job. Via large we're not firing these young guys in the -- an injury level and the specific roll. And jobs. To do. When they first yes yes I'm aware of work and coming face broke her last that -- opener citizenry careers or what development that we. There -- go but he. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- What they're asked to do mr. Kamal the seventh inning or sixth inning and pitch well church. Gonna get a clean during most of the time of its human right turning into a game -- would argue blow out your clean up but you're not getting up and you know recordings approach. Pitcher going out and it's you're to throw strikes you gonna face lefties are used to them not asking you out here. He's ordered that -- yet unwritten -- there to get three outs so the same as it started the first English are. Yeah yeah a little different warmup routine of warming up at a different -- of -- game it may have been shortened. Given the amount current -- -- and you know that I -- you have eat a lot of optical out there. Glassy look in -- three outs which means border churches throw strikes work quick the aggressors. That's not something. That needs to be ever hold a minor league level because he's actually I think we are starting it has to do -- first just go to social workers are. I think Natalie. Then guys will naturally. Drop into that mindset of all I'm only go three outs is that a you know 21. What it's already here over the children six -- are because. I don't need to say anything I'm I know this is life out ought to do and that's -- that part up organically but I'm going out there doing at. Vital thing. That's developing them for specific relief option is the same. In any way shape or form. As asking a shortstop or second rate because there are nuances on the positions are hours so much greater. Edited out as. So much greater turning a double play certain based or art work something out you know -- Kirk faced a third but trying that it takes the ball the ball retouched third. As opposed the charities and all the -- we got shortstop is a completely different. Completely different thing right boasting need to be experienced. You know coming out increasingly don't Wear. Other than -- recreate that -- continuation or becoming -- one job to do against one hitter with a team where. -- that Jason experienced troops but you're not changing distance of a milder not lower rate hike you're asking potential last pitches. By and large you know still actually use the rest of it it's more analogous that in just starting them and then shortstop -- -- Talking to Red Sox assistant GM Mike -- -- in to ask questions the first what why would you so if you can just explain then. The move of a guy like -- -- Ramirez who was in hi Salem this year from the rotation to the bullpen what why was he a candidate. For that transition of this. Earlier stage of his career. Because I think you'd see some players that you like our. So that it -- do that again nuances so I think. -- -- development stage. The lower levels you still there's still some there's degrees. Do we think the -- reliever do we think this starter to rethink the doctor people. And -- meaning. Does the F widgets and so when you start are actually in East Europe and make some of the determination along aren't. I think it's a diet that we -- speaking -- before but it guys that we say. Maybe early ever. -- -- Many doctored definite starters it's that little or separate challenges that worked and all of that all right. Don't stop think cabinet -- you start long term. Kirk saw an article. -- got the most sitter for there are other guys that you see that. If they don't have the ability to go to sixth inning and an outing. An -- productive. You're reaching your belt and there's guys are going to be developed as relievers because you see them and their future as a reliever trying to ask them to. That's well beyond that threshold the minor league level no matter what development scenario is going to be you're in trouble you're you're you're you know you're not gonna. It's not going to be productive development if they never got -- -- are start there's. There's a team aspect of it to where they're well aware they're out to -- starter -- six something even a -- we -- open border making everybody -- stretched the rest of the game. And then hope that they do -- at the same as a Major League level. The -- guys are going to be out there going oh man. So it was stretching and so so so those guys that would like that that we see is more relievers have more confidence about what their what was going to be at that level. Sometimes you make a Turkish court irked because we don't think developing. Sport for starting the -- level is going to be productive at all. The final question is when you've given that you do expose guys to. Things that they haven't seen before when they're getting the Major League level you know and again you do your best to lay the ground nor can make it's -- -- that transition. Is as seamless as possible but there's going to be some -- turbulence. How difficult -- -- to project performance in -- is that kind of the fundamental reason why it's difficult to protect performance. When it comes to building a team that is that is heavy on youth. I think so. You know there's there's. You know that the difference in the minor -- in and take side. That's still out of the of the players -- all I get all wrapped in the players Egypt it is not because. You know the speed of the game that much more. The the attention and focus on their -- and and information on new and not -- there's not much more you know they -- the ability to. To work specific situations. Pitch counts. Pitched types against players is now much more. You wanna go on knows for -- why -- -- and we're sort of I was using it as much as we do with the development getting to know these guys. Try to get a grasp what was revealed in the that part of the battle here is. I don't keep harping on it but apple last night but part of that is. We're hearing that would -- important inaudible other -- go where ordered it you have to answer questions. I certainly -- -- but they are I didn't you know we're all watching to without a note in those moments where you're all watching. You know we narrow or information in with regard to what we say what we think you know what we think we saw quarterly level. What we anticipate giving news personality human -- level of aggression given there earlier repeat your delivery up those spots among us. What steps -- -- -- -- their orders were watching to -- you are and going. How -- do. And and it's it's it's go to try to be exciting moment for not only chance to -- and -- but trust you to watch and look at -- that -- -- -- there's no way. That we can recreate certain -- legitimately. But the minor league level. Given the skills that some of these major leaders to end in consistency in the count all the things that with an. And the knowledge and intelligence. Got jungle that are out there seeking to regain at a much higher rate the so mr. -- are. And so yeah I think we're part of the particular nature elders. And -- development and -- personalities out and play it over got into it is that you know personality having trust in the streets and and how they're gonna respond to situations. Because you don't I would urge you to pitch but you all to no other course on one way or the other to successor earlier parts really for a bigger picture perspective the most important part. Great might -- has been not a tremendous really appreciate the insight. You've heard about the front office perspective on went to expose players to new -- but what's it like for the players. To answer that we're joined this week by Zander -- for his thoughts on embracing a versatile role in order to reclaim of spot on Major League roster. Wolf first of all against. Imagine that there have been too many times in your in your life in which you haven't played. You know more or less every -- and match maybe -- -- there two up here and there. What's it like what what's it like just the perspective of sitting him in the dugout and seeing the game more than being in it. -- definitely -- when I'm not a bench and at that moment. I mean it. Through them it was a mystery about -- it's. I'm just enjoy watching it you know so I give them a lot of credit we have the other team right now so I'm definitely not there. And tournament events of the sudden and as most Bosnian Army we just -- adulthood -- he's been he's been really really good from and so far opening a lot of really he's been really a good good decision. For me you know. The son of a commitment as much as possible see. CD game you get more more more -- in the game we'll see you -- out of this much attention as possible and the -- -- an eventual -- you know part of the game. That moment for me it's exciting you know -- I mean this month has been the experience of the two of them -- over a 100%. That you went over me you know. So John McDonald who else are you talking to on the bench to try to get I mean you know but. That's -- you know you've been in baseball and professional baseball for a very short period of time in relative terms. This is you know this is pro season number four for you. Who who are you looking to as the guys as your teachers. Now a -- he's been about three hearts and souls and feel. -- I went up to novel love. I'd be like he drew defensively also as we also but I mean people with some defensively. Look where he positions himself and -- gets visas and angles of you look at that. We're off the bench is probably -- now. I mean McDonald's Mosul. It's -- -- -- what I feel sometimes you know when when when he's not doing to position yourself for this time I talked to a lot to. Semi futility is they're getting close you know he's been always -- -- that any constructive sound and they think we need an -- -- so. I mean it's it's good to -- and and you guys that you've been around two years. What's that what's an example of of something that you might ask you guys about into the answer that you know that you kind of are able to that it kind of changes the way in which are able to -- What's going on on the field. Again -- The whistles you know I mean. A minute rule and the -- you me technical more for the pictures all of that so he's he's really like it helped me and it real too soon. To be a nuclear off the bench and also because he doesn't they'll say he's he'll lose -- of repeats itself so guilty as you to get. To get a feel of what to do what went just like getting swings in the case. Just on. -- you to give proper credit. So what's the what's an example for instance of question that you might ask of someone because that one of the things actually that stands -- about you both here in throughout your career. Is people say the US -- have never -- to Lugo has to actually was blown away when you're in Greenville about that. What's an example of something did you know that you might have asked someone. While sitting on the bench watching the game that really kind of helped you in terms of how you see the field. You mean defense of new office. And like now I don't understand how he's he's he's so patient you know. Ask him always in -- units for the pitch to drive you know. I mean I mean it's different you know he's he gets a lot more about that means I would say maybe it's that experience he's had some of that so. I mean these guys absolutely peaceably it's this -- -- Vietnamese smalls or when he's feeling good because of its own. We wanna be -- he's become something like that hopefully we'll. And it's amazing now -- This is only as an illness that's gonna -- getting you know and this dispose of what a specific that you know it. Almost but -- I would think it is it's the public -- -- more or experience of hopefully get you know. When -- in terms of but just the preparation that goes into being in the major leagues getting ready for game how different is that from any level that you've seen before in the minor leagues and it's. It's of the world that you would never imagine the difference that this woman is that it's I mean anything to get -- stuff you know because. The game is important that yet you wanna win but it's not as porous that it is appears to -- mean. I mean you can you can play shortstop in. And just the and then about positioning. Whom the ball -- base in -- was the you know. We're going to be -- All the cards and all of the stuff. Obstacle to selling you know. They just disguise the hair blew the ball to right at you and he's out of the -- scored the game when he grows up so. So I mean the position is you really something big for me. Also. -- a lot of it is what it is via the what with some of them like to watch -- so that'll get caught up. Double positioning his view the immunity -- and -- -- as a team here is the so if you've been fun to see in the and nice and close the book. Has. Forbidden instance already in which you -- you know because in the minors it's typically pretty hard to get video of pitchers here you know are you getting ready for so. You may have seen a guy before which gives you a little bit of scouting report but it's been stuck at the same as. You know here you can see any pitch the guys thrown if you think there's a batter. Who's kind of similar action that's an interesting question. When you're trying to figure out of pitchers how -- you might attack you since you probably don't have prior experience against them. Who do you look to to see. To see how they might be going after who. And it to me give you cannot -- You know ha -- and on this but it's the politics every every one. Maybe much hotter than it would be a good one for me a much -- Lab and I haven't been body that we are definitely not what I decide it's got to watch what he thinks everyone in. You make a small small sample a -- Don -- and he pitched against us then. He throws you a fastball fastball if not slowing in the NCAA and also. I mean I got a pretty good but -- I I kind of know what what what you want to do you know and I remember I got a base hit the second you know that game he was at 21 -- who can Ross Ross is the fun of me too to want change up. Today and I got in the same situation next batter and 21. So I said you know he gets over the past well probably read more and more on the teams you know an -- -- -- -- and got a hit you know so. It's multi day to -- that he can get away with a lot if you join me you know probably -- roll over a pop appeal so. Yeah meets on that it was a good good ones and bud Norris Hall was cited for a way we always so dad and got a hit off him in the end those lovely book. Yeah I just just just look at the all around. It's. In terms of the advance beatings did they go on before every series those are pretty involved you know you gotta sit around. Discuss you know you discuss positioning -- which. Which there's a lot because instead that involves how -- going to be attacked the plan of attack against individual hitters that involves defensive positioning that. You know that involves you know just kind of be able to read swing -- and tendencies. How -- moreover you're adjusting to a new positions and in part. How is it kinda how as both adjusting to the amount of information that you're given. In doing so what you're thinking about how to apply it to being both a shortstop in a third baseman. -- this that McDonnell as a business of big big big influence for me right now you know you've built a really annoy enough. Their base is more about angles and then some of that. More about. The outback or. That the first step because you know you can't be too much things that you can. Go get a ground Bullock shows though we have time to go get a -- analyzes those -- this quick reactions and also. I was sale probably have a different approach because you can have the -- -- it feels like it's -- that -- -- -- -- -- and coming to visit W morals are subject and the other hide what. Yes. And I mean you're positioning as you we big men that this comedians sadness. That's something I mean we don't even do in the mine is you know so it's it's viewed shipman. I mean I'm I'm I'm fortunate to have good catch is that that's the wanna help me you know sometimes they went cheats pitching summit that he. He always tells me sometimes if you if you know what I was doing that he doesn't -- slide more videos like this so. I mean most of the thoughts I play a -- would -- so. Mean he's the number you also. The other -- is the importance. What is it like just in terms of adding that level of daily work at third base into your routine is that something that's now become you know become comfortable to spend time. You know. Becoming you know -- just improving your skills at both positions on a daily basis or is that difficult my time management him. Nominates it blows them in the morning and afternoon and I admit matter on have a problem that I -- on me. I live on the field so that that's what I'm good -- so you'll sign them them the more -- -- sort of feel the body can get you know I don't I don't just wanna be a good Lil wanna be. -- -- -- this personal side really worked hard to. Try to become us something something -- that that's that's my goal you know I really try to become something. Something great so. I mean if if it's extra work so you are no matter what it is if it's good to see get any better I'll I'll definitely do you know what. But a more down in mid September and now it probably body feels tired of them you know place I have more energy than probably most guys so. And if you don't have a problem with that and ahem I mean it definitely helps veterans affairs that would have been using or have a lot of excitement so definitely gives you more as -- Do you have any sense of how much your benefiting from this from this time is kind of a student I guess you know what we're -- you -- talk like an apprenticeship of sorts right right here. You know this isn't the role that you're ultimately going to have your obviously -- Hope earlier you're obviously not you know they they are grooming you do spend. You know to spend days of the week on the bench they're getting ready for never -- do you see how that's going to help how what you're doing right now is going to impact do you. When you do. When you do have that opportunity. -- team solely on me at probably -- to -- the time back to get to get my timing back with the suffering of the book -- -- on -- Just to be on of the new guys seeing seeing with the doing of these bases in front of because them in the atmosphere is unbelievable and so. The more experience I get it does if he doesn't matter if it's one about who we want about the game at. Each one of those is we valuable for me it was this much there's some -- to see some you can't forget it so you can definitely take a positive out of it also. It's definitely been been been good I have no problem that would be on events that so you know I'm really learning a lot so so what do I get the -- I'm pretty much the you know. The last question you mentioned that player development tends to be you know when you're the miners things are more individual they're focused on. You -- you improving sometimes is more important then. What a team does on a given that if you make an error because you're kind of learning on the fly but still well except that here. It's so much about winning but it's not just about winning you guys are winning what what is it like to be involved. In in this situation in which everything is about. Wins and losses here on a team that's doing -- a lot of winning right now. You see that that that's when it comes again I mean. I'm twenty mostly guys -- -- in the play off the bill for its ability and young woman who is like Solomon. Maybe hovers close of the playoffs there's no chance what is not like they're the same position as I -- you definitely go have no problem be on the bench because. Unto any a playoff race that that's the more experience for me I would say so. It begins you important you know you can. You can't Google I mean yeah as you said you can make an error cost the team we can't keep pressure on yourself seeing you know like him making them you know. He's got a book day and -- improve your game book. Means none none of us guys in a playoff race so I'm definitely fortunate and blessed to be to be in this position -- -- You hadn't bought any return plane ticket back to Aruba for like you know for September 15 system. All -- all probably guess you go back like them. Two influences there SS that's worth of about where probably. Great big source editor time and you know if it. Directs Texas and GM Mike -- in Zander Bogart's for dreading this week down on the farm. Sponsored by being one advantage tire and service dealers find a journey you and be one advantage dot com. Think also it's producers Saturday and built yet to tele. If you like to hear the complete interviews from this week's episode. -- to -- -- past weeks of the show check out the minor detail podcast at WEI dot com slash podcast. We've got three more episodes left this season and I assure you that they are all going to be. Possibly amazing so tune in next Saturday and each of the next three Saturdays and in the meantime have a great week.

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