Aug 5, 2013|
Two players with a chance to deliver a considerable impact for the Red Sox down the stretch, Jake Peavy and Xander Bogaerts, underscore the franchise-changing impact that great scouting can have on an organization for years. To explain that phenomenon, Minor Details is joined by Red Sox special assignment scout Mark Wasinger -- the man credited with scouting and signing Peavy for the Padres in 1999 -- and former Red Sox international scout Mike Lord, who led the Sox to Bogaerts in 2009.
Transcript - will not be 100% accurate
This week it -- shining a light on the cutting jobs. Behind a pair of franchise changing signings. In recent days two innings of Baird detention and the Red Sox organization like none other Jake Peavy obviously acquired at the trade deadline and super prospect -- Bogart's. With both of them on the cusp of perhaps having a huge impact on the red text on the stretch. It's worth remembering that the origins of both players' careers were relatively and celebrated. Peavy was taken in the fifteenth round out of high school in Alabama and he needed a 100000 dollars. Certainly beyond the slot recommendation but not huge money to walk away from his scholarship offered Auburn in turn pro at the Padres the organization for whom. He won the Cy Young award in 2006. Bogart's meanwhile received a bit more than 400000 dollars as a sixteen year old out of Aruba for years ago. Good money relative to the market to be short but a fraction of what top international -- he's typically receive. So let's get into the process underlying the amateur talent lottery in a couple of cases that hit the jackpot. We'll talk with Michael lord. The international scout whose determination. To get a chicken pox riddled Bogart's out of -- in Aruba may have changed the fortunes of the Red Sox through the rest of the decade. But first. We'll check in with Red Sox special assignment scout mark wasn't here who was responsible for starting peavy in getting him not only drafted by convincing him to turn pro. Let's start with this did mark wasn't your rescue PP from obscurity before getting the Padres have taken in the fifteenth round. Back in 1999 or was he at the time a well known prospect. Took some context it was well on scouting community. And it was scouted -- You get -- a scholarships. Out all Burnett to our. And where she wanted to go to there was issues -- abilities the other summit that. But to clear up the fact that she she was well. -- discussed in there did their job and -- all had seen here so. Step on the table. The strength of the reason it went in the chipped in ground. Is because once you start to get into the middle rounds. It was going to be desirability issue where you know what I'll just go to go to Auburn. So. -- We get an intense round with the Padres I got this -- from north Alabama. And -- so well. Is Jake Jake is still on the board and it says oh yeah I think so so go game four cents. So. He went Beckett and three rounds later. Well the maps -- a twelve round -- rounds later. It's change -- and actual gotcha -- KV civil. There's a great mystery taking actual that's trying to. So. So good -- It will just be clear what kind of stuff have you seen from him when you're gonna see him in in high school how was a video of this kind of forced his way. To get that scholarship offer at Auburn and tuck in was getting that's getting attention. Well objected overstretched and in our schools that are different. Has stopped its opt out of that 91 from may. Maybe most cal cup more than but that's what I got and I had like -- fast already. And it had to search will break in body and very good changeup so. He had to get outs so that's very attracted to colleges. As well as a pro game but. To insert -- you know like when he went out won the Cy Young. Here's 196. And just beat it with a fastball it was more pitch ability school. That really didn't strike justice means. He carved up we're limited in out. Don't not conscious functional. But he didn't show the big stuff that he had you know he developed throughout minor leagues and then an imaginary. The the idea of a pitch ability guy in high school strikes me is such a difficult hype to it says scout right because. You know high school hitters against pitchers if there's a pitcher who has advanced feel for pitching at -- young an age. Given that you don't meet you probably don't have the same kind of advance cat and mouse game in high school that you would in. In an SEC setting or something. That that would be difficult to project whether or not a guy has the stuff. To play in the minor leagues -- in over whether or not he's just you know he's just ahead in terms of the sequences that sort of thing. Think yeah he's he's definitely has been currency and -- -- and is it did translate united. Just got finished. Basically. -- played -- and managing. And independent league and and he he would have to view -- as those guys at worst you know -- and their careers are just. So. For me it translated -- its ability translated to the pro level. And I think there is more than -- -- scouts that would agree. As she did the kind of background -- make up work on him what did you find out about him -- permitted him to have such an advanced feel for pitching and understanding for the game. That is a good question and it is so -- quite a bit and actors. But he called happy. Like that it did it to me. As ground and Jews. News Jim Warren's expertise and I know it was a big baseball trying to influence. Enjoy actual election. You know I get to speak to him and games and -- and -- little bit and then -- the channel they just. And wished that the game and and -- just had a desire I don't know exactly. Why he knew and how he knew that are certainly better be better off talked about such. He had it -- And he had it is so -- now so. The results are or what they are. Do you see that -- and he's he's known as as a ferocious competitor. Did you see that in high school that kind of mound presence or at that point. What's his performance such that. You know maybe maybe he wasn't being challenged in -- way that was going to bring in out in the same kind of dramatic talking and yelling to himself fashion that you now see at the big league level. -- that's. Yeah that's. That's what set him apart served from every other right hander Y area. And by the way he did mention what I signed and that populist thirteen. Right handed pitchers before we -- out. So we always thought that you know all those guys were going to be in trotting out. Well the thing that different change they -- knew he was going to be good and knew it was gonna get guys out. And I district miners that the only thing. That Stanton probably used about those thirteen. Thirteen pitchers I would like for you but they had -- cell that was the only person that stand trial -- so. And that's I think what was the turning point making him think okay. You know it actually maybe maybe reward do what I really wanted to does that play baseball so. But a week later and it up the third call me up but ended up getting chart. So it was it was this really just your view was he your guy or was this -- was he someone. With whom the Padres cross checkers were. Where you know we're quite involved in this negotiation or was this really just view in Jake's family. -- sorting out whether or not his best path. Was to go to college or turn professional. Yeah it was it was made. And Arnold say that it made any bragging way. Cross -- that came and saw him. Throw like two innings. Like at the end of the tendencies and hours kind of like. Prepared for the playoffs and really didn't have anything else to do. So it wasn't like it was like that at all what I do want to say is that. Brad slowed the scouting director believed in me and not to say. All right here's a 100000 dollars -- back -- -- -- is. And being with the Padres a low revenue clubs. Those considerable. In terms of thought in terms of of getting that 100000 dollar commitment you know what was your projection like for him at that point what kind of -- do you have. Both in terms of you know what what kind of grades were you throwing on his stuff. In what kind of what what kind of ceiling and floor where you're defining form has. As a high school kid one of one of the most difficult things to do by the way too attached killing him floor to a guy. Who's pitching against a very -- a different level of competition. Yeah and that's one of the most difficult things like you mentioned that. And I think it's it's always so. You can always look back on things and and realized. How exact you really -- and and in my case how badly I've missed Jake. As the enemy in the sector and I said that he would need a back and starter at study of torched starter but I -- this should -- -- And actually quite surpassed. And outstanding and one -- pitchers in the game or in any certain here are certainly at seven -- Cy Young -- What's it that you had him turned in his as roughly a fourth rounder is that correct. What what does that mean to your mind because then you're you're you know obviously not taking in terms of draft position. Right since you guys got him in the fifteenth round to you what -- what the difference between. First round or second -- -- third rounder and a fourth rounder what what does that mean when you turn guy and say oh he's a fourth round talent. Well at that time. Obviously I was an area scouts I was -- The pool players and mine. Area and what -- you before about what roughly talent goes in which round. Wish -- size and and you know is is. Like -- topped out at ninety wanted to get an average curveball and change. And so she was in the average range wasn't. Which sets him apart at that -- -- is his make up is mental approach is. As ferocious as as -- -- so. -- ultra mate that that that elevated up into the fourth -- area and you know obviously it shows how inexact art business says because if if anybody could have predicted that it would have been Cy Young award -- Well then obviously they would apparent much higher. And -- They would be the best scouting guru in the world right now on derby you know it's just it's something that you just can't quantify. You know it. You just don't know that there's a lot of unknown but what what what what are their currency. At a lot of heart as -- was good and and the ground based ball trying to get a major Lachey -- what it took to get there -- And -- Jewish day. When did you start to think -- start to get people in the Padres organization telling you. This this guy might have been a nice little fine for us he might he might outperform that fourth term projection a little bit. You know -- had watched what you organization gets summoned and most of the armed. The money that you gave mart where they went really doesn't matter to assist what can you do. And I think they they realized pretty quickly what Jake. I mean you went out just absolutely -- as a rookie and I think it's -- in three years is a bit late so. Yeah cheap. He got people out he struck people he got better. It stopped improving gets stronger. Groups I mean are all those factors. And combination worse. Now as -- thought goodness her Geithner quit. And and he's been good and yet look back. So you know kind of -- with the benefit of hindsight you know fourteen years after having seen him as an amateur. You know did it does to assimilate Jake Peavy change the way in which you you know change the way in which you say you. Kind of wait certain things you know whether it's though because he has pitching acumen. You know there's a chance for him to move fast or you know or or. It how he note insofar as. And insofar as he's a guy who you know for whom you didn't have you didn't have the perfect crystal ball you obviously do a good job. Of evaluating both you know the fact that yet a potential Major -- future in the fact that he was signed a ball and that you could get it done. But you know what what lessons do you draw as a doubt from from a guy like Jake Peavy. I guess basically. What I Drew Coleman is. And and again I have an extensive background in baseball sorry I don't let. Know what I like and know what what it took to not only get there but to stay in and what -- players are and identified it early which error and then there's times -- wrong as well. But you know you get you really have to trust your instincts as a scout. And and they were agreement which and it there's been other cases of that happening to. Where I was right and ordinary and if you can't sort of more than -- country that's wrong as well. So I guess the biggest thing I learned that it. Learned about it that you're lucky -- this stick to your guns and and be convicted. Have conviction when he talked about it. And you know and see what happens just. As too unpredictable. But there's factors that. Knowledge factors but. Intangibles about players. And sometimes you can't just on on one line like that so much. Then. You know it just it just manifest -- bench that that should progressives I think it's. Stronger he develops mentally and physically. Goes to the crime about -- Knows what he has student. Compete against the best in the country hands as opposed to a little town. And you know like mobile content and and -- it takes about a or any. It just he exceeds. And that's what he did it. Talking with mark wasn't -- now a member of the Red Sox front office team but the area scout who signed Jake Peavy back with the Padres. Please remind me when did you when did you how how long did you remain with the Padres. Far and I spent five years where it's. Kevin towers -- -- director of their when I was work intranet apparently training. And I establish relationship. A set and -- some independently players. And -- -- not already made me these are discounted up. And that's spent five years with them before. We have got the job over Boston it brought me over with a. So that being the case and we -- came over for the 2003 season. Are overt or others who when he came over as of Wear and tear came over his assistant GM. Or -- out. So from afar so then -- TV's Major League debut I believe was in the 2002 season when you would come over presumably to the Red Sox. -- what's that like for a -- when you have you know obviously you have this. This personal investment in the guy's career and yet you know because of the nature of the industry you're in a different organization. Are you still able to -- you still able to experience. You know the kind of the same thrill you know that that kind of thrill of watching -- TV's career unfolding from afar with a Major League debut whether winning the ERA title for the first time in 2004. Winning the Cy Young award in 2006. How much does that mean how gratifying is that two out. Who who spends a lot of time maybe not necessarily in in the spotlight for the for the hard work its done. You know -- if it's -- and not a great deal to me that the kid was able. Make a living at this jail which is so hard -- -- and and all that but just say -- I I was. He HE it my expectations by so much you know -- and I can't sit recognized. What you know how liked it better from -- as far as you know who say yeah. Come back a lot although it'll just change around what that that's the luck of the draw that she wanted to signs. Recognized fact that she did wanna play professional baseball writer what are. And to get into. -- -- took more than the typical shift change grounder. You know looking back -- it it it there's there's I have a scouting director that wanted to let me. Have the money to spend on a guy like. There's so many variables that. You know you're looking back how how that happened. But I guess you know that there is no question. How how gratifying does that make it's that you actually you actually read. Apprehend a comeback and and but potentially help. The Red Sox get into the playoffs and who knows how -- past that is just. It's it's it's it's almost a full circle. That was -- that was kind of good to be the last the last area that I went with his -- with this line of questioning. I'm over the course of over the course of the last couple weeks when the idea of of pursuing Jake. Who became. You know clearly a Red Sox priority right he emerged pretty clearly has as about the top target that you guys could have in terms of the fit for what you guys were trying to accomplish. Both an accomplished starting pitcher. In someone who has signed beyond the 2002 and put it beyond the 2013 season. How how much were you involved in the conversations about whether or not to acquire Jake. And and how much fun because it just for you to think about you know -- I finally might be in the same organization. As him when he's in the major leagues. Well that that would be in front that would that would have been on -- from -- as far as. My involvement has very matter of -- and you know that they that this scouting step to regulate staffs. Then all the people in the front office. You know there's diligently watched him. Check out his performances and did all that and -- followed years. And those of the guys said. You know which should be she usually gratifying for. Because they put in all the work. And so it's necessary and they put the Red Sox. And in all the scouting people that are in our organization that it -- light and hopefully see. Is as good as advertised and it helps. But -- all -- also records results early -- I feel like he's going to help us. And think the fans -- like Jake Peavy. Mark -- -- thank you so much for joining this has been terrific to think back to the back story of the origins of -- beat his career. You know and Doug but he kind of emergence of really a guy whose son has enjoyed a pretty incredible career. Appreciate chairman on the show and I was say it's it's -- hold up but have been distracted here watch. And here at Syracuse,. New York. Turn up next JP. That's -- -- but you clearly multitask well since everything's been crystal clear I think you -- again mark. It out here. The reputation of -- Bogart has proceeded to twenty year old shortstop to the big leagues and with good reason. -- is dominating in AAA level or is seven years younger than the average position player. Given that performance how do you get to the Red Sox in the first place to answer that we check in with Michael lord who is the international start responsible for the search. It entries Bogart's of the Red Sox as a sixteen year old. In 2009. We'll start with this. Given what he's become how does Michael lowered the scout who signs -- Bogart's. Explain why there wasn't a line around Aruba to get a glimpse of this remarkable young prospect. That that the great question. You know it's amazing that when -- first got there. And thought okay outburst on the silence in this guy's answer was no so. Some good things happened. You know -- -- -- you know the tough job -- Rubens. The beach and then. You know go out of the ballpark but. -- the story that you know goes where we came -- you know -- around the islands and luckily I had. Soccer style group almost all the places along the Mexican as a lot not all fun and games sticker shock Mexico where it. Yeah -- well those those -- well I thought that. There are -- a remote knowledge one place to land to Newt that is -- you know the drug cartels were going to be shoot at Aruba. It's it's. Yeah I think if had to get a quote get familiar like so period grew up. So we we attitude and work out and bad first date. Little ballpark and right here the Big Brother. And about seven guys. Showed up and you know look at it -- typical work out at all. You know turn over -- try to find another it and you know most that you go to Google and what -- that they hate to date that they are on someone. Almost Asia like while I get out all -- and -- you can get caught in trying to -- players and which is did. So that they're all I hear he comes out among the rest and he had a couple months and all the options he opened. He's started you know on that topic that you haven't shied integrated. Big smile. Big lovable Teddy bears and he got talked about rather you know I'll -- the worst where the and Zander and he's sick with the chicken pox aside. So we got to talk a little bit more and you know so I have. Talked to some of the parents and and different coaches and -- while it is standard he's maybe the we've seen a lot. And -- -- you know what -- jagr was okay and he did you do -- well -- opposite field power. With Nike created at the end he was big -- to capture. Are we thought well you know you've got to be kind of a pretty. -- that that proxy Hartley moved around him he looked like you could pick it up yet to reverse that. That's our. -- -- -- -- going to be questioned that. So the back today -- target pocket after the game after the work out. I think you guys know lateral collateral it Bianco Clinton dropped call yet. Straight guys happy and the whole battle isn't completely happy group ever since Andrew the -- the sweetheart. Big mama bear she is you rules over there group. At that she's great and so we. Well I got probably glad when I got talked about baseball it was a big baseball -- actually pretty knowledgeable about the game and he -- recite a line up I've never did have like this -- for -- though Mike -- I really love this game and he named all the starters Mike -- he was going crazy it was -- starter scored here that won twenty games and he was really. You -- clearly loved the game and he loved as it is is boys and and so there was really intriguing but Carter problem a little bit puts an -- like -- you know here with Evander. So he's like -- -- mama's not let me about chickenpox which I would work out the where we got him there the next day that you noticed or whether. We've got the game -- he shows up and we've already got the work out -- If he's you know he's a rock star but he all of sudden -- -- and instead of degree and honestly from here the year. Literally rolled right out of Betty I've been two weeks and week in and you know he's not all there. And you irrational. Smog actually did namesake and no -- they'll talk about. Old school guy. That are under like music is talk about a guy good -- but I heard Garrity you do that yes. That you got that big grin honestly argue -- as a quiet confidence about -- is that genuine it and right away you take -- it is in. He went out to. -- -- and you saw some tools. And you know he he he hit. Took a little BP and then in the games he wants is one left field that one out yet what the right center out and I think I told you won't want a place you'd. We'll break it -- middle with a guy on second city. He'd just directly out rolls over. Oh they're all aware that the current partner sites Gordon wrote about him but and you know again at the root of the -- part what -- -- but he had. You know get a baseball instincts and so. It started had not been a typical video live. And that senator Craig Shipley you know ship was I've often thought that ship is that you should look at this. Right away just jumped right on it I guess -- -- all that right away like I got it now I guess we got it down here. So it was pretty obvious the guy really stood out and does I really all our. You could've got a guy from checker at Wal-Mart and probably means that in the best baseball guy out here -- -- -- eyesight to happen would be. At the right place at the right time I looked around -- -- -- -- who is nobody on your you know nobody's -- guy. So there's a couple seemed -- Mexican had been around them you know you guys on the island. -- -- -- Says hi there are real we -- that down as fast -- -- what wasn't really rocket science to figure out who's had. At the ability to know how much the newspaper and the look like a big leaguer you know music viewed as though he was that they use the profile was there. You know the big shoulders he just does he looked like a little -- who's gonna grow -- dopey -- talk he's going to be he's going to be good. And so hard on that and you'd get the second part of your question about life but he arm now we always were wondered about. So -- we got a dog in negotiations. Small island and you know the other GMs and scouting directors found out so Kris and her they were coming after them. And I it formed a really good relationship with -- the ball and Glenn all right. Great Christian family -- stick to their words -- really awesome people. So we are talking and there are like you know what I trust you wanna you know they wanted they wanted look at your the -- So I'm sure you know you never told me who have achieved she said there's a lot of -- -- they were. Trying to undercut him in about him that whatever the Red Sox gave you will -- it up like that so that they treat and so. It was pretty amazing so what I think I think that it be interesting for people -- about and her. And without going and greet -- -- when he got the bonus. He didn't you know here what a cute age sixteen years old and -- you know drive the truck with the money and -- that view he doesn't go crazy he. He spent months and how they already did that he. Major characters. Mom let -- -- support people all of that. The money -- pictures as -- talked about it while the -- yeah. And -- years to same -- you know he's he's that is as solid group and so on make up stamp what really happened as standard got. The stability there Dan Bartlett is it -- I don't -- -- my colleague -- while I have to say you know broad product yet. Note Koreans you know go to the ballpark and Margaret so. He's a solid kid but. You know would want to go up and so. A little you know little concerned about coming up just you know it can be penetration and I know he's going to be buying that. You know so hard they -- but you know. The -- note charity and aid they know what is now they'll be outlawed them you know the thing I like -- that they recognize that this guy you know he's in Aruba. All the planes that you -- your apology in the states where it travel team experience and coaches that played so they basically -- what. So he's you know he's brought he's way behind the person pool like there but you know he's catching up so I'm I'm happy with worries worries added that. You know eat this it was a great damage great kind of a great story -- we got him you know the chickenpox. -- -- Indeed I mean the fact that you know the fact that had had you just respected become a normal family. You know -- -- chicken pox you know you probably shouldn't see him right now or. If you are just said he won't be get affected anyway because it's been you've been in bed for a couple weeks. The Boston Red Sox miss out on on one of their most. You know on one of their most celebrated prospect in in decades. Yeah he didn't know that that there was an Greg has Zoellick said. A hundred times in a -- it turns out that in other in OK okay and not report that. You know minor leagues let it was just that one chance to. You know as -- a lot of like you know as far as. And he he showed that in and you realize well this guy has really good so. He's he's you know I I worry more about sometimes you know this is as I don't like it alternate -- You know the pressure will get to open up like that that are being out here these he's pretty even keel you would know more you parliament of compartments are -- bit. I just think he's you know he's got a good head -- -- children he's going to be an idiot. And and just might might be because the product. There was speaking from personal experience the thing that struck me wasn't in this most recent futures game which was his second all star futures game by the way and I'm sure. You took a great deal of enjoyment in watching both of his. -- his participation in both of those contests. But I it and his his approach was remain totally immature. And he wasn't trying to he wasn't trying to be a showcase guy he was trying to be a good baseball player. You know responding to the situation of the game was offering. Being a patient hitter not trying to sell out his swing for power just playing you know so under control under this. Under the spotlight that that told me something at least in terms of in terms of how he might be able to. To handle you know to handle having a lot thrown at him. We'll let you know I mean. I know these are working with them and it and probably you know I haven't it league shortstop and and knowing what we have to teach him you know -- he's probably this year he's down there just kinda. Part of the game in the subtleties and nuances of what it takes quite -- big leagues. I think what you mentioned on it yet you know good hitters. Can get power guy like -- -- -- -- like that that they get older that's. Most got he talked big -- I'll tell you that they got older regular they can you know learn to drive all the that -- -- and so I think that Sanders going to be able to do that I think you're gonna come -- -- I would say it would it be like the you know or he's gonna gonna get the corner where eventually he's going to be or turn the corner and then just take off and I think that you can have. His power Roberts should drop once he gets is not one years old so it he's still grown up but when. It's a few more here -- -- them and they let him loose and teach him how to get all Moroccans I think -- -- -- can't really look like to use elect you're good hitters. He's hit -- he's getting his base its ability to do. You were cut down strike -- I'm sure he's silent. You know it's pretty good I think he's one of the youngest guys AAA. He is the young what this guy in the internationally right now. Yeah so there you got to -- Throw your -- and he's playing with man and so he went from double everywhere. You know those -- those guys we're Luke Luke's where they're coming -- like this -- about ball so they're coming back yet. And so he probably got he ran a pretty good about all -- crafty veteran sir you know probably just not enough used to. It always -- big leagues but there you know they can pay their artists and so what you project just -- -- really carved up. So he's you know it's all part of please just like and on oak trees got a water every day it. You know he's -- failed and couldn't get better and they don't do a little better entry and you got a big so I think they're doing great I'm glad they didn't trade him. Tough I don't think there was much consideration given that one. Talking with Michael heard the international out who's responsible for signings in her Bogart's out of Aruba back in 2009. Mike what do when you talk about has power potential remind me what grade did you have on him in terms of present power ends. In future power when you're looking at him back them. Yeah I. -- -- -- Well -- I -- border like senile I don't know what I gave him but it had to be of this you know 5560. Rate I was always really. Super conservative with numbers like I don't wanna. I I -- one overs shoot I think sometimes that's. You know as you get older you get in and again I only. Was that was my third year thanks so I've been off the field corruption and and it's translating that one -- always like I would. Like report about guys -- say well we need you to he's going to be Geddes likes -- Arctic. Is. We need have clean as clean her actions here -- player development. But I think. I went back up I am. I actually remember governor projected. Potentially as a city can get too big shortstop -- I guess she is doing okay. But I had a -- on the -- or actually maybe playing field. You know with dispute that felt like you if you watch -- Monday well down from any group that cover some ground. So but again that you know. Obviously it all depends on the organizational and what that you are so they don't you know at this point out that you know what we use their -- so. Until probably are -- Is going to be in the sixties I was sick and -- is going to be a bird the 35 guys on. So let you know later -- scorer. -- as to the first Red Sox teenager to hit twenty home runs this season at any level and Tony chemically aero. Yeah. Where were happy. -- development for sure. Well just getting to the point is getting to that idea of how quickly he's moving. Is looking back is there anything that can explain how he's been able to just. You know the way the way in which sometimes you hear leveled the change of levels being described primarily about the Major -- I think to a lesser degree it's true about all of the interim levels minor league is it's like trying to drink water out of a fire hose he get blasted back before you really get any you're really able to adjust. What about him what about his makeup or his physical tools that. In retrospect has allowed him to move so quickly at the latter really without ever stumbling. Well I would take it back -- the -- -- intangible. You know on the it is the sixth tool it probably the most important tool I think if you look at big leaguers are so many guys. That. If you look at rosters and say. Well -- guys OK I'll be eaten taxable our member good date myself but way back. We had a guy he's governor based coach for the order the giant who would -- played its part. I hate to say plant I don't know how you made it used it hardly hit -- field. And you can't run you what you do except for he was also in the right place you actively where the ball in -- -- exacerbate all of and so is make it took -- literally he carried himself to big league. Probably get -- you know close that he is there a ball that's what I got to do -- double up and do it and you know work harder. So make I think if you it is such a huge huge factor. In weather guy makes the the guys that the release will be in play all kinds of doctors do stupid stuff off the field. That have a lot of talent and now they're -- out there. So I think it. I think he's going to be steady guy -- In the media options so big -- slowed things down I think -- -- it's I think he's so grounded from the families that I you know. If you -- probably I -- -- hurt but he does go back to -- they'll be happy and live like I know he's got. You know you want that dream but I just think he's he's a solid ground -- That can absorb it. That's the only thing actually you know you still want me that's where we're where you know. Put up like that act is period period twenty years old and your -- get ago. You know did in the senate race. You can't help but worry what is gonna do to him you know you would hope that he would have the success. But you know he's gonna go to the pinnacle of baseball and you know the highest level the most crucial time. It if it doesn't happen well. You know of the China democracy go back all of that while I don't think it will I don't think he would -- that reduce humidity -- experience. So from my -- -- double guarded about you know I'd like to impose go to street trader -- -- remember camp. Go play you know that again -- Who might even say that I would just failed the it'll be interesting to see how Salt -- he'll be excited -- if he makes it. Describe for me if you wouldn't mind the quality of baseball that you've been seen in in Aruba and Curacao because. You know now we're seeing we're seeing Bogart's we're seeing jerks in pro far we're seeing some. Some prospects with the you know we're seeing and -- and Simmons. We've seen some some prospects of real heat coming out of that region. Problem with who have been able to move through the miners really quickly. In all almost shockingly at at very young ages. Anything that you can point you to explain. Why that phenomenon is happening is this just a strange and amazing time in in the history of the island. Are you get how you get a guy you you'd get. History of athleticism in the islands. You know you take it back to their standards -- so you know those types of players. So pro parts of guys. You know with the they're a great example of -- the Rangers to their credit they were -- him early date date on -- but they kind of cut that deal with him with way early and there's a loyalty fact we have yet she did which did not try out. You know you're looked you're ticketed him and he would he -- -- -- a little bit -- -- and on the way to go in the football league you kind of look and he could see that you can also see as a back up. That he might and a -- and cross country so -- pretty arguments really get it yet plus breaking ball and to really put. But there was no way to get to that got used he used tool left and so -- -- don't -- the the guy that we. Really liked was back rack -- more you know of course Germany. -- up with a plan so. Not do that they have what we rot your art through mark Brunner who with his coach in Germany. Flew over the -- times a lot of -- help Americans. Make that happen. And at the end of the day we did you know it happened there so you know it's great because we were we're close almost -- you know. You can't hide over there so if you go do your homework you're gonna you know they're gonna stand out like you know. If the Americans walking Eleanor aka mr. on the beach. And those guys were -- -- says there are they do stand up there and I think they get a little bit more opportunity because -- There's got to learn you know that would I don't know what the status and capture what 30% international in the big leagues is getting up there are yellow -- right now. Obviously hit the market in the and the alertness. You shot at this 62 years old we're in the stage you know by the end it like now we're in the draft and yeah you know so international's got a little little wild -- -- where you. You can still gunslinger you work hard you can really you know it's like a gold -- you -- -- up some gold. And that would have standard you know he is lucky enough to get their person and hold onto its. And so there is that opportunity. And it is obvious is that -- you don't have the numbers like out here now or you're about to about like. There's literally -- in -- -- -- -- -- -- play baseball and -- -- good record -- -- -- -- they have -- -- trouble in the excellent instruction and they're not there they know how to play the game. But yet only a handful get the quiet and still -- island it's an extreme weather system. And so much it's great that it is alternative market there's really. Really. Gives up a lot of good players. In so when you talk about god how you projected improbably to move off shore up that was purely based on. On the projection that he was going to add more add more muscle add more size of the frame. As opposed to as a result of the as a result of you know having slow actions of the position or anything like that. That knows what it was hanging out collateral collateral -- the war but shoot thirty or you're forty and you know and I'm like okay he's a horse and old there -- going to be dislike him. And Bob Hope I'll let inside and you knew that this guy this guy I was the kids started the egg whites older than. He's gonna put on -- -- forty pound also wants you know once they got all the -- and part of out of you know lifted -- yeah understood the discipline the baseball. So there was there was huge upside on -- friend knows it's ridiculous usually emphasis since notes good baseball -- He's now up to a 63205. I think when he when you when he signed with the Red Sox. He must've been I'm guessing around 17180. That you know I think I had a 63066. Street that. And you don't know I would hope that he was gonna you're thinking man this guy might creep up for them but I would -- you know he might the let I don't even still 632. Birdies -- athletic bodies late August or other groups but. You know it's it's it's right there were -- in you know. So epic and that he does put up about our numbers and obviously he -- you know run over there that he's going to be a serviceable. Sort these are you know -- He's going to be gritty blue collar guy you know look at cal Ripken. Played their bird forever and uses a guy who -- in the right spot the right time later hurt made every made the routine play. And you know they've moved lower -- issue passed which looked at -- with him because. He had -- the actions he can. I think you've got it slows it down the ball yes late birdies and relax and let apple console not you know freak art. A -- so I think he understands how to you know the charter explains well now that's what they do. And as you'll note so I think he's gonna that you got into baseball and thinks that he's gonna adjust to whatever position or. In terms of Viacom that were thrown around when you're out when you're looking at him at whether by you by chip or others in the organization. We're kind of names were coming up. What that you -- They always say you know like human babies and accidentally you know that and it bears sure -- pop and so I think I opted Baptist somebody in the forties -- song never looked so far down the report Islam Powell was asked if just if anybody -- has -- them but I might it you know cities and back cover so let's compare. We'll watch out for our third baseman everywhere will be watching Alexander slides in the next -- That that security don't you're not that means unfortunately. In terms of budget watching him from afar you know you you believe you left the Red Sox organization a couple of years ago in order become about baseball coach. In college in -- you know you're now back on the West Coast. Witness what's it like for you watching his progression up through the minor league to this point where -- you know. Where he is not just knocking but almost pounding on the door. How's that been for you to follow. -- It's important thing -- Arctic where I just I don't. -- an object and walker while I know I haven't even seen any of his videos really. I've mostly -- cut with Bob. Sanders. Of what are my buddies installing -- how -- act. How polite and arugula justice and so we'll talk a lot and you know back and forth yeah. Obviously -- here you know -- Love that -- -- and I think he's Gartner get involved in the a sports agent are believers tribe and some like that so. Although I was worried about him because you know -- generations shadows Brooke group shadows brother. That he'd be OK and so. You know -- was definitely -- -- at the very beginning and one I think one of the ethnic and help was. Wanted to chuckle. We took a package and a lot of people would of negotiation table take exhibit rocket -- -- here I don't think. Jar you it was a guy in the secretive. In the right organization in the Red Sox and you gotta you gotta make it happened pretty quick and deep organization he could have been an organization where. Maybe they needed some you know they had time to let him go it like. It's the same as. Guys from the Mexican League know those guys and they're always late bloomer and so your plan if you come out of Mexico at three -- warriors on because -- and they they've maintained there they're -- a little longer so that may make it -- a bit too late thirties before they really call out so. You know but it your organization more like -- out today. They have to get relief so I don't I was open jagr was gonna get a chance to get one more year maybe go to first. And figured out that you know it's the way it went so. Let's that would look great and assembly -- so that character question I know what comment. And thought well this that might it happen -- now. Bob on cell -- you know I was editor I've -- you know Jagger couple times and like that I don't bug too much in and I'd say hi this year once in awhile. And just let him be. There hopefully Monday joked about it just come back to Aruba as we would always get over there they had that. Already unique city council's. We take the talent we decide what so tightly -- veterans just -- him. I hear a relic of our money's work will be -- that are so. Well Mike it's a great story and one that one that I think reflect not just I'm I'm Zander and on the starting job that you did on him but on. I'm the significance and challenges of scouting in such an interesting way. You know you hit it about finding. Finding ways of finding out information about guys that having -- you know. You know kind of being able to connect to not just a player but also to the people around the player in order to be able to get a good read -- good feel for who they are. You know finding finding those extra piece of information saying hey you know austerity went elsewhere have to see on the island before I leave from my. You know two -- parachute in. You did that mean it's obviously had a or it at least looks like it's going to have a considerable impact. On where the Red Sox go in the coming years so. It's not it's as to my mind from that vantage point just from the you know from appreciating what international scouts do in where they have to go in order to find talent I think it's a tremendous story. It's like of that group is not. You know special ops in earlier. They say well but being -- like reported about 638 working out -- some crazy you know airport -- The replaces that a -- I -- -- Craig Shipley did you know he was great great you know he probably ought. As a scout and the guy that they got out I think Red Sox fans need you know that -- say it because it. -- -- You know -- of course you. He is. What about it's not the W is amazing what -- citizens and so I know he's out there so Red Sox fan could be. You know -- some. Thankful that he's with them because he is amazing nights I did -- Venezuela and other places and through Mexico. He's as -- as they get so the thing you know. We got to enter that our program. By Anders you watch these these -- -- -- themselves. I think it could have. I'm look reported date place and hopefully the lord well and had a long career. And we all get walking. You know look at that -- -- My -- Red Sox international student threats and international scout who brought him into Bogart's thank you so much for joining it's been great. Thank god -- could talk about it. Thanks to both Michael lord and mark wasn't jerk for joining doubt on the farm sponsored by being one advantage tire and service dealers. Find it you are near you at the one advantage dot com. Thanks also to producer -- it. If you'd like to hear much more from my -- on the process that led to Zander Bogart's siding with the Red Sox. Or from mark wasn't sure about the scouting process on Jake Peavy. Check in that WEEI. Dot com slash podcast for the full length interviews on minor details talked to next week.