WEEI>On Demand>>Should we be worried that the Sox were shut down by both of Tampa's ace caliber pitchers?

Should we be worried that the Sox were shut down by both of Tampa's ace caliber pitchers?

Jul 25, 2013|

On non-consecutive nights the Sox were shut down by two of the better pitchers in baseball... problem is, those pitchers are in their own division. Should Sox fans be concerned about the Sox ability to stave off the Rays for control of the AL East?

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Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

-- -- You watch last night's second time in three and at three nights Red Sox not just beaten but shut down and completely dominated. By a hard year hard throwing left handed starter. To be fair since the all star break. They got to independent. They got to CC sabathia you have to over the hill or old or aging at the very least. And struggling left handed starter struggling. Big time and the two guys that shut them down are arguably. The top two of the top three lefties in the game. Along with Clayton Kershaw. I mean that if not there in the conversation that average arm westerner not the moment or else I mean well I think no. Not a I don't know moment on I don't know I'm not gonna go to I'm not gonna put more -- price are gonna be in the conversation right reason that people could debate whether they are there or not but there in the conversation. For in the top five left handers in the game along with -- on a few of the guys are trying to put in there. And and both were fantastic and they were absolutely dealing. Against the -- -- here's account but they also both play for the rays right the team that right now is pushing you as hard as anybody has all out. -- -- -- -- -- you're right more dominated them. Price I didn't dominate them like more but Maddon did pretty good pretty damn goggles and have that doubling home there are run at it more shut you down. -- held no grounds. So. Those guys dominated you. Very imposing that thought of facing them in any short series long series. Is really frightening one. With all that said you win tonight's game if tonight's game is played. In tonight's game. And you're still a game and a half up on tip they are playing their best ball of the season and you look at and you see how long can this last. And the last -- if it does if they continue to play like this. The second half given division title they deserve it you know props to them one of the great runs in the history of a baseball game. But -- don't think that's gonna have to play. Doesn't seem like they've got the bats to head to keep up what they've done for the last couple weeks. And as good as -- as good as their pitching staff is their role right now I mean is as good as more in price and Alex and have been they gonna do that every single night out. And as Fausto Carmona Roberta Hernandez going to be the same guy that image he he's he's delay. He's still a hole in their rotation somebody that you're not gonna trustee gives you know. Great start every time -- so -- Fausto Carmona is gone. Are so Carmona was -- saying that I can't god I keep it. People don't know who Roberta Hernandez is you need to save Fausto so people still still understand -- -- you're talking about the future Puerto. -- Hernandez or Carmona. Teeth always thought that I did and he certainly did an OK so he be. -- get away with Fausto Carmona is such a distinctive and a week to let him have Carmona just so we know you let -- every one under the -- Carmona Palin hole and I still call. The angels Anaheim so I mean there's some things I'm just not willing to move forward on -- he still going to be Fausto Carmona to me. But do you get do you get legit nervous. When you when you see those couple games -- -- making who Porsche Red Sox panic button almighty god hold on they're not good enough they're not as good as the rays the rays are hot from raising and over tape come the -- better team that got the amazing pitcher's. Or do you do as I do which as I said. -- they look bad for those couple games but there's a reason a baseball season -- a 162. -- when you go up against two of the best pitchers in the game one of those games being the night after the the long late night affair against the Yankees with two teams combined for five hits the next day yankees and Red Sox. -- -- Market overreact to the fact that the team got beat by two -- by two of the best pitcher you know what. Yeah I like them I mean like I like the race I like to raise a lot. I think there are an excellent team their playoff team the Red Sox are playoff team to beat the Red Sox are better in the race. Even with this hot -- the Red Sox are better team. They have already clinched the season series vs Tampa they split here that's pretty much what to expect. In a four game series between two excellent team you. And I think also the Red Sox or have more balanced they don't have anybody like more. Wanted to have someone like more except he's not pitching right now -- -- buckles so I'll give the -- the advantage Matt -- Red Sox don't have anybody -- easy -- number one there's no doubt he's pitching like -- he got it all season. Price his numbers don't suggest that he is a one -- -- new ER ray is still high threes after last night. But if you look at overall if you look at the race and what they're doing how they're doing it. They got an exciting young talent in Myers they've got a steady player in Longoria. But the -- always happens in Tampa there's one guy you look at on the roster and you see how in the hell is this -- doing this this -- candidate James Loney. In the past Carlos Pena in the past. Casey got it it's not just on guys it's their first baseman -- it always is not just one guy in the team it's their first thing that we look at you look. Well I think they're both going to be direct talks are more just have more. I think they have more depth they have more talent slightly in the. -- and they should have the ability to do something at the trade deadline less than a week away now they should have the ability. To add something but the way they're playing right now I mean you have the five and five road trip the took a couple of really incredible comebacks in Seattle in order to get the five and five. And now if you take two out of three from the Yankees now you split with Tampa arms are you've lost two out of three to Tampa so your 500 since the break right after going 500 on the road trip before the break ego won't -- Tampa and then three. Against against the Orioles. Probably gonna be surprised if they do better than win. Two or three of those -- a product and win the next four in a row and that's usually a fairly safe -- so essentially they're playing 500 ball. What do you need to do to shake yourself out of -- got a couple of options GE you can make another trade mapped port one at least as of now is not paying dividends he has not been. Someone you could trust them are willing to bet most Red Sox fans are paying attention. Trusts. Almost everyone in the pen -- the floor right now as dollop. Yeah we are obviously. But probably Britain is the get a grip on about the most of it and it right now big spot -- lefty who we trust in Great Britain or or or. -- I think most people are based on what we've seen -- get a -- Britain over thorns that its pitching story or just hitting putts that I was gonna get to because the next thing is he really just need to back. And that. They probably do need an arm. I don't know how big of splashy moves you're going to make I don't I don't know that I think they need to make a huge splashy pitching move. We have a couple of options just offensively. You don't need to keep playing Jose Iglesias you can't. You don't need to. I mean when he was hitting 400 -- he obviously. Needed to be in the lineup every what do you do it what do you do -- third and short well you don't need to keep playing him would -- do I got a couple of options I can keep playing him at shortstop because I really want his -- sit down Stephen Drew who is -- -- who has been struggling -- -- back and and the -- have been American juggle the two of them there and let them let them go back to our -- right. And bring up well middle Brooks and let him play third base again I mean I can just say they were the Red Sox we got to ride the hot hand. Well we we can't afford to give what time -- the young player -- all but now I -- ride the hot -- -- has a problem well what makes you think -- -- -- will be your hot hand you're just trying -- you're trying somebody had to bring a little bit of power who's had some success who's gone down who is hungry to be back who hopefully is has made some of the changes that need to be made it comes back up here. And and you try to let him do his thing over the course before the trade them. I'm I'm not sure that's it because. He's hungry to be back because he's a McCoy stadium and he was at Fenway Park. The lights have been waivers of the -- in the -- the crowd -- that members of the crowd -- according and we loved we had a great time down there but. Really think Jim Rice is the only person who prefer Minor League Baseball Major League Baseball what he told you in the book that day well and Manning. And -- he liked and I -- stick around you can bet ever got about that. But so how everybody is doing what they wanted to do. -- securities are seeing that when they went columnists say Gary. How is Oprah excellent as is is these are seen -- saying this guy has figured it out. -- done everything we've asked and he's ready to be back threats or look like it. So. Next option. Maybe trade. Maybe -- you know go after him Michael young's name keeps coming up. Young's a professional hitter but yeah Phillies a kind of climb back in order now to the Cliff Lee option seems to be kind of out the window unnoticed Jonathan Papelbon. And Michael Young would be the same thing so. That's the one issue I have when you start looking at who's potentially available from -- from a hitting from about perspective. It's mostly outfielders they most of the names that you heard have been outfield is now I was certainly intrigued at. When I saw Alexi Ramirez's name pop up. Right yep -- -- pilot of the white -- so a whole lot of second somebody made a bid on him. That's kind of a different idea you've heard the Red Sox linked to the White Sox. The idea that somebody would say now let's go bigger worry trade me somebody I really want what I take him as my shortstop everyday. I sure think about it he's very intriguing player great defensively. Can hit and run can do little bit everything I'm I think he's been -- that I would focus on budget -- in the third inning well. -- and yes you know you can always find a way to tell it to moves at shortstop and third base around given. The weight given what you've got on your team and versatility and you're probably thinking outside the box isn't your problem at third base so. I think so. That's where you can we you should be able to add some pop. Unless unless you look at it the other way and you say aren't we can live with. With 88 cooling off a -- he has. He's a wizard the field whether it's -- short or third will deal with it won't change it around a little bit -- -- in our corner guys. Doesn't necessarily have to be offered to force what do we have -- support to shortstop somebody else. Rental and then we typically on -- let's. Ramirez could could be that kind of -- -- do that 60777979837. That I know one other idea for him Michael Steve's in the car hi Steve. -- guys or you could adapt them. A couple things -- group -- saw. -- Last night the land -- -- Atlantic or twelve Saltalamacchia. Looks like Easter -- get a hold on every bit English is that now. Probably been that is a matter. Was hit like 180 in the last three weeks I'm like that. Yeah and -- restored absolutely walk and -- and apple -- through Sunday at an old -- sit here now. Then go to New York because like it bought the -- we -- it like -- set myself up. Shortstop. Oh definitely I agree I think -- got to do something and I think it'll work just to the people. -- get from children glaciers like -- elite that you -- bigotry. It's -- -- -- that you would anyway you know. Well looking into -- bring him back up. Maybe they. Aren't. And all. All like yeah don't you don't have much to lose but that's I think -- atoms are -- I'm gonna. Take your idea here. I got the numbers -- you gonna take my idea. I'll bet -- you can steal my thunder for the second time today I'll betcha gonna go here -- I bet you -- go if you don't know if meadowbrook middle Brooks of the tree -- eaten. Maybe what you can do you used. And here. You go to the Zander wells -- Zander error he has it. He has shot to the system. Does anybody legally anybody mean like a cool theme song more than standard and there you need some sort of like called music after every time you say is their problems. And there are around downtown from what you get some sort some big -- Behind them so -- -- -- Bogart was the numbers for Zander Bogart's in Tripoli and -- make a comparison for Zander Bogart's at the age of twenty. Is getting to 56 and Pataki -- he has eight home runs in 36 games. Eight home runs and 36 games now if you're looking for comparison for Zander -- 56 is not. Who's the best comparison you would want makers and brokers the guy whose name comes up the Sunnis you talked about bringing up the twenty year old third baseman to try to help them stretch of the -- this is -- a superhero convention Zander -- and you've got. I was like oh OWW me. The standard Bogart and bad name -- shot -- -- so many much Otto at the time he was called up last year. Was nineteen years old for season last year in double. Skip strip like he was in double late last year where you accuse him. Double and double -- remember the numbers I gave it to 56 with a home run spurs and about earnings in 265 with about twelve conference. That's incredibly close to being accurate are my job that he was hitting exactly 266. -- and left it all runs. In a 109 games or that I was another prediction game now different. Not this is going to be back here I was incredibly impressive a record gamblers did you like literally choke off by one just to make me think you have knocked it up now and look it up don't give me don't give a gambler a little bit of success. Because that jumper -- so I was out of it -- to. I had. 66 I had eleven all right taken myself out of -- prediction game. But now I'm back here as well say this about what an admission of tonight's game reps know get our break come back -- now -- don't -- nobody -- that review his numbers at Tripoli Zander Bogart's hitting just ten points lower. But with us significantly more power in the considering how many games he's played Johnson Rhode Island -- job. John hello -- -- -- -- -- -- Up eight room talking about. -- -- -- -- Amnesty like access the Red Sox to most consistent starting pitchers are John Lackey -- -- you brought. So obviously need help rotation. And around San. Diego Ortiz goes down in the second half and set an extended period of time Wear data. So I think they can -- a lot of help -- and firstly it's got it to firstly. By. What -- scapegoat you know doubt the client would be completely different -- that Miguel Cabrera have kind of overshadowed what what or accused them yet what. I put in the top three in MVP in America -- an unbelievable. And down there in trouble. Well there's no doubt of David Ortiz goes down they're not the same team and everybody RD except that are in same with the rays if they lose David Price surmount more Evan Longoria again I mean. That's in the six severely impact who they are Ortiz and and Pedroia. Are the heart and soul of what they're doing offensively. But I think the point still stands the Red Sox and their need to make a move. So. You bring up Bogart's name personally. I'm about ready to see what he's got. I'd I'd be willing to see what he's got to now seems to be the time right around the trade deadline or may be right afterwards if you're not able to bring in the -- the you'd want to infuse a little extra youth and if it doesn't work out while you were killing yourself. With the Iglesias drew -- -- combination you've got some options. But the other way to go Michael. The other way to go is with an arm and there's an artist talked about a lot you look at his numbers at first. And they're an impressive or at least they. But just like a little bit more like peeling back the onion just like -- layer or two. I was shocked. Shocked at what I found this guy would be arguably the best pitcher on the Red Sox if he were here tell you that is next rockaholic W -- ball few more than one or more hours ago what we are getting close close to the baseball trade deadline less than a week away soccer -- here on WEEI. And the -- Jake Peavy keeps coming up. Why tell rights they even named Jake Peavy. Puts your instant reaction to who Jake Peavy is at this stage in his career age 32. Okay right okay a pretty good and used to be great pitcher used to be one of the true aces in the game. Had few injuries -- San Diego. Went to Chicago. Always a good pitcher not necessarily the same great pitcher that he used to be. And a cursory look at his numbers kind of gives you the same thing he's seven and four this year after B eleven and twelve last year an ERA over four at four point 19 which is still respectable right. And if there's -- respectable respectable it's okay it's okay. Talk to start looking a little bit more at Jake Peavy trying to get a sense sister really who we was it as a pitcher at this point. He's got to whip. Right now one point 164. Who's giving up just just over a walk or hit her him. If he were to have that whip on the Boston red such one point 164 how many people do you think would be better with him tolerance one. To you -- -- before and project if we take relievers attic is usually kind of -- one starter Clay Buchholz is a one point 02. Annie -- -- -- everywhere else almost identical to John -- You look at strikeout to walk ratio he would essentially be the best starter on the Red Sox after after Buchholz is not pitching for them right now. You look at walks straight if you look at strikeouts per nine innings look at walks per nine innings he would be other than Clay Buchholz -- again not pitching. The best pitcher on the Boston Red Sox numbers wise if he had those. For cigarettes I would have no problem with the Red Sox going to get. Jake Peavy -- got here next year tip and I wouldn't even have a big problem he told me the only way to get Jake Peavy. Trade Wilma Brooks a threat -- -- do it. -- for -- I'd do it. Now there are two things here. The -- says one thing and -- I haven't have a definitive text. That's -- Yes star. Mr. Shapiro QE2. The Texas says -- the obvious answer to bring a -- Bogart's in little Brooks. That's as. I think it's all country. -- probably make it a lot more complicated than that. It's they'll come down to return -- Haven't given up on that. Lot of people out here Clay Buchholz and that would be fun but we're not there at 7%. And you have the time line keeps getting changed buckled. Maybe you have given up on -- buckled returning to help the Red Sox and 2013. But I haven't given up on -- this guy back with the Red Sox and I think. It to go old school did you get to get was the king of this. After not making a trade deadline. And and welcoming back an injured player say well misses used to go to and enter on actually get regarding the -- you -- -- trade. But rarely if you have post deadline -- returning to the Red -- It's better than any it to better acquisition were better boost. And you could have gotten. Directory yeah I it is -- mean he'd be the best pitcher out there if you were available on back do you think he's available particularly I actually got put Michael even basket it's an area off his back September 1 now I don't think even thinks he's going to be pitching in August. I don't think he even believes he's going to be pitching in August so lets you get a Max of timer first you giving him for what five starts. You're right -- if they make the playoffs buckles is a huge weapon for them if he is himself and if he knocked it just need to come back. He needs to come back and be the pitcher that he was before he got hurt. And if he's still feeling soreness or is having trouble with the pain management or whatever and he's not the same pitcher that he was. It's not going to be all that helpful to have Clay -- backing him back. -- to be the guy. That he was before he got her killing paying occupational hazard pirate it but that doesn't mean he's going to be effective if it turns out in his mind that he can't deal with that pain. Or he tries to pitch through it he tries to be the tough guy so many people want to be. But he just did it hurts and bothers him and effects amid it it changes his mentality he's not able to throw one pitcher the other and he's not the same guy that he was or maybe just takes them awhile to round into form. What do you make the playoffs again this isn't the end -- -- the NHL you need somebody's gonna help you make the playoffs and so. That's why I think you're you're probably looking at somebody not just come back and join you in September but somebody can join August 1 and not just make five starts before the end of the season. But -- and starts before the end of the season and really be. Really BA -- difference maker for you down the stretch -- -- dog fight with one if not two teams are about the ratings may be -- -- definitely wanted to. At what it's it's definitely to your deftly and apart with two teams and if you look at look at -- start the Red Sox. Trying to hold up the Orioles in the race and I know. Haven't given up on the Yankees yet are so so so let's look at several Heidi how do you handle it then if your bench Harrington you know that the market for a third baseman out there. Is going to be brutal because there's almost none available. The only position players we've really heard much talk about our outfielders for the most part which is not something the Red Sox really need. As a if you want a third -- you're gonna have to add in all likelihood drastically overpay. That's -- Alexander Bogart comes in. Perfect Jacobs if your car should not have to okay -- but I ask you this last time. I'm really trying to figure out this. Is the last time the Red Sox did this with the position players you're going down the stretch you need some help. Somebody's. A major leaguer is struggling at a position. That -- kid is is holding down he's supposed to be holding it outward next year or two years later in the Red Sox. Dip into -- minor league system for the position player to help us now they've done with Jonathan Papelbon. They really rushed. Craig Hansen didn't work out they rushed to a man who was traded to San Diego. -- the Grand Slam a claim. I see him this side armor clay something. All Americans -- player to claim Florida but. Simply did it with a position guy. Sounds dirty I mean I can't think economy. I can't think of I can't think of -- position guy that they tried down the stretch to be there trade deadline acquisition. -- impact player but. -- is is a superstar prospect -- clause saying he's a minimum 25 home run guy I mean you've got power he's had in the minor leagues who just looking at the comparison to Manny Machado. He's one year old in the match honorable playing in Tripoli instead double A he's hitting home runs at double the pace. -- Machado was when he was in the minor leagues are double the pace Baxter got a Ellsbury last time developer. Down the stretch. Ellsbury and he was. -- -- he was unbelievable. In the regular season and we know what happened. In the post season and only time I've ever seen somebody lose their job in the American League Championship Series and rushed for the World Series app which is which is what happened cocoa. All of a sudden there's Ellsbury. So it has been done has been it was done six years ago but historically. The Red Sox have made moves like that and the other as a hitter he's given this Pedroia and I don't I'm not not a true after dry at the job all year. The six or 777979837. Have a harder others in his car what's a man. Medical oh yeah hey back in 07 their product will be operated in the beer and he got -- pitcher -- that you and I have to. Speed and her book and I'm thinking this year are. They're getting these power numbers for our resources at a home run every four and a half games and in interact. Yeah I had integrated not to bring up and I'll know better talking about treated milk or repeating I got a great idea especially when you got -- to Cheney. January and. I think Chicago's gonna want more than just that for you think so yeah I mean. -- the talk of the -- on the way in the and and and he was making the comparison of ones like Chicago got for Garza and the belief that they would get even more for peavy and Chicago got from Garza or the very least. Something along the same lines and it's a lot is like 33 decent prospects OK so now I'm I'm I'm -- -- around -- just told that those numbers from. From Jake Peavy were okay and that that that the secondary numbers were actually pretty good -- excellent so now to make the argument. When -- negotiating with Chicago. Talking about a 32 year old starting pitcher. I was just all right give you 824 year old prospect who was untouchable right getting of this -- they could give me three is going to be he's going to be a part of your future for the next. Five or six years if not longer. What are you talking about Jake Peavy would have -- next year. Who knows what we're gonna get. Magic. -- Chicago White Sox -- -- gonna get me he haul of prospects project people but they just some back that they just saw Chicago get their team across in the same city across the city. Get a pretty good -- for Matt Garza would you rather peavy -- Garza to begin with. Would you rather repeat these guys offer you keep your Garza got knowing that he's got an extra year of his contract would you rather -- -- Garza anyway. I'd have to think about it over my my my half beer moment here happier yeah I would never want to think about I panic about Joe's in Rhode Island what's up on it. They call it. Yeah we had a couple people say -- yeah. OL are yet to people just that. What to meet you doing liberal just while you were on hold this in the show they're big on that techsters big deterrent. -- -- That's all right Joseph puts it right thank you which -- right it doesn't happen. And we got to go back six years. To figure out the last time it happened but maybe. It hasn't happened in awhile because the Red Sox haven't had prospects since 2007 haven't had prospects worthy position players worthy of but being called up during a pennant race. Well it's true I mean that it they haven't they haven't really had a ton of those guys seem to Ellsbury and Iglesias sort of was on his way but what are Smart enough not quite ready with the bad it wasn't and have the same level. Of impact and you're looking at a team that has in triple -- a player who is a potential difference maker a power threat. Who who they haven't tried it and and here's the best part of it for me Michael if it doesn't work. If you bring them up and it doesn't work you still have a middle Brooks he still have drew he still of Iglesias having. This is not your only option it's not like they were gonna put all of our exit. In that the -- Bogart's basket hope that it works out -- that was never play in the major leagues. You have other options you have other. Other guys that you can try out there deposition who have had at least some success and I don't sound stupid and -- don't want these guys down the stretch football Snyder brought colts. -- pretty well I mean two I want them to be this the third baseman long term Null. But if you have to do it because you're you're trying some other things and that your fallback plan. You've already seen -- work. -- Couple of textures here -- objectives that Michael Holley is there a particular baseball. -- we wrote -- first sentence. No wonder we're going to do -- -- the places to go at that. The next instances trading -- Brooks is an overreaction -- Trading middle Brooks an overreaction. I think he's a -- The chip. He'd say he eats something he's something that you have an access in this organization. Keeps things a future first race I don't know. Look at how how he'll be a temporary have shown you that you don't even need a future -- -- and don't just -- some chump out there and put it what you personally may thirty home runs you have got some depth in your organization at third base you've got -- need. For starting pitcher or. -- another third baseman a second whatever it is you've got to -- your organization. Why is it. Will middle -- a good trade chip. Do you you. Put meadowbrook and -- on the same level. Knowledge the problem middle Brooks is just that is his stock is down right now right I mean it his stock is not where could be you're selling low on the prospect as opposed to selling high. But if there's somebody still looking at from the long term and thinks that they're getting a player that's gonna really help them. Now he's had at least some success in the major leagues and the success that -- or the lack of success he had this year. You can attribute it to what's gone on the fact that he had a wrist injury that did did that cropped up once again in spring training. And he hasn't been nearly as effective since 61777979837. Some more calls on the Red Sox moving forward after a couple of tough nights against hard to rolling excellent lefty starters but also this. People -- their life. You know everybody like -- manipulate their life they hate being married they hate the situation there in the big big -- got themselves into a life and can't seem to find their way out of that -- have. Obscure crept back up. Your -- do you -- know the people you know some people like I don't -- I don't. As much as you may think that person has their life they could not possibly hit it as much as the guy who plays out from -- -- stick around it'll. It'll entertainment like products its popular college WEEI.

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