Jul 22, 2013|
We discuss the physical vs mental aspect for Clay Buchholz, on the heels of the news that Dr. James Andrews has given him a clean bill of health to resume pitching activities today.
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News coming out just a few minutes ago Clay Buchholz is. Has been dot has been to see doctor James Sanders. He wanted to go -- to get a second opinion on a shoulder which for whatever reason. He continued to feel discomfort in leading into it publicly did -- on earlier played again in a few minutes John Ferrell. I just that it was leading Ryan he he didn't he didn't call out Clay Buchholz but in saying things like. He wanted to go to embassy doctor James Sanders to get peace of mind. He sure made it seem as if the Red Sox didn't believe that there was any major problem and that Buchholz for whatever reason did so this is John Farrell so economic -- I guess he was -- my doctor enters today and the exam concurs with what has been diagnosed here. So most importantly clay comes back I think with a little bit more peace of mind. And you'll continue on a throwing program that's been. -- put in place it come off a good day of thrown yesterday and photography with greater intensity. He's traveling back here tonight Soviet partner tomorrow. From my understanding of they examine what doctor Andrews. You know related and was said he's gonna feel some room. At times of little stiffness or discomfort just by virtue of getting back in pitching shape and he felt that. You know as as he -- back up he's gonna experience some of those but it's not. The or the root of it is not because of an injury. Or it's more just reconditioning giving -- the throwing arm back -- -- Well. Wolf you know that that's certainly the goal. And as a mentions he comes back with. Some greater assurance in I think more peace of mind so we'll continue on with with the progression itself -- I don't have a date. Not to. Have to cut you off the drive an -- today. You know we feel like he's gonna have to continue to. Progress in some further distance won't cost before getting on the mound he's gonna need probably three bullpen before we get into a simulated. Game situation here before going on a rehab start so. I'd -- that's the best thing about one right now. -- that means to me means to me it's time to pitch. It's time that she continued throwing continuing your program you're gonna feel some discomfort. Because. You were getting back into shape and you have seen the grim reaper and the grim reaper says I'm not ready for yet. Doctor James Sanders is a grim reaper grim reaper you know you see that guy in -- not good news not quite. -- can -- an outline. Recently. To see doctor Andrews. Is great. And have saints and surgeries coming. Do -- to see in the same day RG three did by going to the net in the waiting room. Again I hope they both cable it would good now -- -- I am quite vocal tonight diminish you don't do it here papadore had a chance to play college football you know and RT 3-D one schools Texas Hawaii. I can play. Decide to go baseball. But I think this is good news for the Red Sox big picture -- regret it for Clay Buchholz. Now this is a moment where you just got to figure out. What is what is pain threshold is what it's pain threshold can be. Now maybe one of those guys. Who who is just so uncomfortable with a little bit of pain that he won't be able to get it done but. I'm guessing that now that he's heard from he's heard from a former pitcher in John -- A former pitching coach and John Ferrero. Former pitcher one he had his. The pitching coach and now one of the leading doctors in the world in doctor James Andrews that he got to be okay these are from people in baseball outside of baseball. Maybe he can do is go in and -- An -- so open appear for some your reaction -- well 61777979837. What has to be looked -- is good news doctor James Sanders looking at Buchholz John -- saying that he should now be back on schedule there is no real injury but he will be feeling some discomfort which would be natural as he returns from what he's had -- I imagine and again this is pure speculation I'll admit I imagine that along this process there's been some eye rolling. In -- on yawkey way that somewhere along the line there's been some -- yeah you know I mean that's sort of the vibe I'm getting here is that there's been some ironic really. He says -- irony. He says he's not ready I role he says he wants to go -- doctor arrows aren't all of a ROB. You really want that wouldn't send you down Israel's arms and all right. I mean it's it's it's not like we think your bad guy Artest. Just a little eye rolling and then when the results come back exactly as they did it with the most noted surgeon in the game saying -- you're okay. It's a little of I told yourself a little eye rolling like -- dude look at this what we've been trying to tell you all along it. Where you did not. Again this is speculation that I will freely admit and I I really do have some. Discomfort ad -- -- asking or or or judging a guy for just how injured he is. But what I do judges the Red Sox reactions along the way John Farrell's comments yesterday about him going to see doctor Anders for quote -- quote peace of mind. And then the comments today saying yeah he's healthy what he wants to say. Those things I think we can judge. -- today. I know we always went and you cheer inside information with this we always want the latest -- but the big hurt. Themselves or or more specifically did they hurt -- -- by being so honest. About what they -- In what is actually happen with the with doctor -- because now. What are you who sit on. -- that was back -- play buckled to -- doesn't pitch. What what what what most people gonna say -- buckles of what are -- -- to see doctor -- -- interest that you're good right the Red Sox figured it. And if he doesn't pitch what does that say. It on him so they have kind of left him out there. But I think I but I I think there and ordered to -- they didn't have to John Farrell does not do that lightly would you agree John Ferrell is not somebody who's just gonna bury you right Annan had gotten old he's known -- for why -- that -- to -- I agree that they definitely. They quote hung them up there to dry but they hung them out there to sink or swim for shore and he definitely gave them a little portions that amen. I'm -- cover for you on this anymore. If if you don't -- pitch. You're gonna have to face the music by yourself you wanted to see doctor James Sanders fine you need a second opinion aren't doctors can't find any thing but you know what we don't wanna be wrong here we don't wanna be the -- pushing you to go out there and pitch when it turns out you're really more injured and what -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- give them the what was he able to answer the why. The -- of at all okay. Doctor -- why I have this pain here this pain in my neck that was supposed you have been out for a couple of days. Then traveled to a different part of my body travels to shoulder and him and -- arm all the stuff. Why is that happening and why is nothing showing up. On the MRI. But I still feel discomfort it sounds like according to John -- what what what the answer he got back was just happens sometimes you feel little pain. And now it's it's it's it's basically the same thing Curt Schilling said last week to a two month low. Yes sometimes you're gonna have to pitch the discomfort that's how it goes you don't get to feel a 100% well this is this could be a good thing for for Clay Buchholz this could be a defining moment for him. If he knows he is able to get over this block the psychological block it might be hurting myself and do. Buying. By pitching. Get over that and goes out and pitches and performs. This is huge for him because it's something he hasn't been able to do before his career. He has been one of those guys who says. And that is not quite right -- well. This is giving him permission. You know. That not quite right does -- mean devastating not quite right does it mean injured it just means. It's it's it's what your job is 60777979837. Not in the in East Hampton Bryant. A what. -- Maloney talking last week about how it probably has ordered do not want you. Injure himself and a different way I actually say the elbow hurting people. There's at all in slightly different way cannot. Not caught and changed and then back at Concord felt different weight just by -- -- -- -- with the elbow. Why I think all those things are true but the problem is he had his manager saying yesterday that he was going down there for peace of mind and then today he has doctor Anderson and that he's basically OK you know and I gotta be fair -- listen to this text. AT&T texas' -- can you really blame Clay Buchholz. Considering the recent history of the Red Sox medical staff that's a great point and that is fair criticism we have seen of the Red Sox. It's a pretty curious things over the years they've missed diagnose flat out. Kobe Ellsbury in with -- it was the what was the was it was bruised ribs were broken screwed up. They wanted to have they wanted to performed surgery on Jason Day. Before he was actually hurt. So they've done some things that that make you wonder I can understand some skepticism. On court -- if he had terminal -- had a on the part of the rest well it is that if Farah says he's going on -- for peace of mind then there must've been some level of -- and try to go angles disorganized disagreements OC doctor Andrews who has no affiliation with the Red Sox. And Andrews tells -- that he's going to be -- advocate that Terrell -- and run island hi Carol. I'm Gloria just gone on. -- on the regular work in the ER and I and it should you can't get my little opinion and I I have been a failure at a -- obedient and it. -- I mean. -- -- you know secret trip I don't blame him and I. And currently illegal act you're a -- era when he opened on Michael and yet that she leading -- getting it isn't. And just you know it probably won't let him caddie and -- -- like act you know with -- streak ends you know about -- why I'm like yeah like you know and don't allow it. -- I think those are both very good points that being said. That's the -- gets paid to play and am when you hear from guys like chilling new here from other players over the years who who really have that respect. For people who pitched through a little bit but much even when he clubhouse it's right I mean -- you've covered teams it around courthouses I've been in my share club houses. When you talk to guys that is always something that means a lot to them somebody who's willing to sacrifice for his team. Your member I'll never forget talking about down a young. A young raw files -- yeah okay. When he was with the Mariners is before he moved around went to the Braves and then the and then the yankees and all around. Tampa he's been all over the place area and at the time. I remember thinking back I was filth and here we remember how good he was early in his career -- he -- he Nomar was like the worst matchup for Nomar ever he just completely make them look silly. And I remember talking to some guys that team GG puts his long before when -- -- here Boston and talking to GG puts us on the other guys that team and they just -- say it. A member story and I think it's from puts about outputs and -- -- 45 days in a row. And from -- is George Cheryl was one of those guys in the you know wanna come in pitch the next day but. Unfortunately Soriano came down with a little something until it wasn't going to be available that day -- we had to go out there for the fourth and the fifth day in a row whatever was -- Of course I was gonna go do that for my team because this guy wouldn't -- they can't stand that stuff. Don't put -- development there's a balance I'm not putting adults in that category there's a balance of guys who oh who will be a little banged up. Still go out and pitch even though they're not they don't have their best stuff. It's somebody who will go out there injured as John Lackey did and maybe that's the reason. One of the reasons John Lackey is as popular as he has now and that's -- clubhouse -- some guys who saw. What he was doing in 2011 who they knew he shouldn't doubt there'd probably told teammates that hey something's wrong nominees surgery but it went out here. And picked for the team because we need we need the help. I mean that's probably the extreme didn't. They don't wanna hear about. Little mix. Little bruise here a little bruise there. -- don't wanna hear that but I think but I also but they also take the side of the player. When. He is going out there in in management. What will management wants him to go out there -- two -- arm falls off players really want Peprah. What do -- really want to get they don't want the Scott Proctor system and what I wanted to get them they don't wanna be Scott Proctor and by Joseph Torre nobody needs that but eventually. Once the team is saying your OK once doctoring Anders is saying -- okay. I gotta go out there and actually -- 37937. Text message here let me get this straight salt you'll waste viewing your dog's time making the czar noises to each other. -- you won't cheer for -- Famer. The title to a miniature alone now six or 777979837. Your thoughts on Rivera your thoughts on Clay Buchholz and move imports alcoholic Emilia. My understanding of they examine what doctor Andrews -- relayed to him was set. He's gonna feel some at times of little stiffness or discomfort just by virtue of getting back in pitching shape. He felt that you know as as he -- back up he's gonna experience some of those but it's not. Or the root of it is not because of an injury or it's more just reconditioning getting news that throwing arm back -- -- I would tell you that her every art from the current reporting I'm on. -- some discomfort and pain. Somewhere and -- I don't know I did peek at camp and but he also wanted to know and understand. That fit in with our discomfort part of the rest of but you'll like what happened. John Ferrell today after clay buckles returned from his meeting with -- doctor handers and then you hear Curt Schilling at. From weaker so go all the -- Lou in the mid days here on WEEI we course. Are salt and Hollywood and it's the question coming -- you're just over Lowrie got a question any question any subject I texted to 37937. And we lancer and what I hear the comments from John -- what he said today about the meeting with doctor Anders what he said yesterday. Saying the buckle was looking for peace of mind. -- the impression I get Michael. Is not my own opinion but it sounds like Jon Farrell's opinion is that the issue recently has been more mental than it has been physical. And it sounds like today. Doctor -- cleared that toppled and and and said look yeah. You're gonna pitch with a little bit of discomfort but this is going to be mentally you can get past this is not going to make you more injured -- you need to go out their catch. I think about it for a lot of guys. Credit buckles in got to protect a lot of guys 22. Ali's 28 years old. But he's never he's never bin. -- have been a 200 inning guy being and then in his career. And last year he and his career -- career high in innings so strange as this is to say. He doesn't know better is never been in -- situation. Where he would know okay this is. This is what it is this is what happens when when I start the season like a start of the season. When ago when I am when I'm there every time my turn comes up eventually. Even -- and feel this way and start 123 or four. The ritual in the start to feel this way but I couldn't keep going without pain. Now I just -- -- that -- that's normally particularly just interrupt you by saying that gets a great point I completely agree with the I think it's a really good point that not many people are making today and I -- okay but here's the -- that's normal right here's the abnormal part. Why take this long to get to this conclusion. It takes long is today. Not things aren't they felt like nothing was wrong with. Then you sit there spirals agreement that it was a viral bigger have to play well here we go -- yeah I -- one. Why don't we -- weeks. He's -- what eleven innings just over eleven innings since may. And pitched into June and all know pitching in -- didn't get to -- -- in mid June to Eric I got an idea. -- Jerry Andrews a columnist Jimmy he's James for the rest wrote Jimmie to his friends. The college Jimmy Andrews. And have him look at clay now and then we can get past this because this is all god has meant so I think it's a good question and only they -- I think 8 o'clock. A number of times of trying to get him back on track. Before they realize that that's what was going on and I think each time they would try to get him back out there if I understand what Ferrell is interpreting. From James James enters today. The problem is in terms of what he's going to feel. Because he's not conditioned to pitch right now. And I thought his own fault and that's what happens when you don't pitch for awhile. But it sounds like he's saying no you wouldn't feel this until you actually start throwing again. So once he starts throwing again he feels the discomfort that is actually natural he panics because he doesn't realize it's natural back to the point you just made it. And other back to square one again I think it probably took that happening once or twice. Before finally somebody said hey you know what I -- idea. Go see doctor -- and he's gonna tell you that this is natural six -- 77797937. The -- in Rhode Island John -- They're guard or guard play are almost -- where earth and I put her mind to me a public workman's comp you know somebody. Doctor luckily they -- and I'm completely -- could do you think about it he wants to not pitch in get paid in. Don't know hold hold that is they do we know -- who has -- So he's not pitching and he's getting paid correct that is true but that is a pretty big lead or not be an understatement. How is that a fact that a -- is he not pitching in he's getting paid no I don't. That -- partisan fact you said he's not pitching. -- because he well he wants to get paid that to let's end game of course I want to get aid but is it is their sinister than that there's a sinister thing going on here that he can pitch but he -- No but what happened with -- harm patients look and this -- I don't know about how much of the I don't about workers' comp -- John about. And people would change coming -- -- so what you think it's not a Democrat I want to hear about the rest of society when your backlit buckled causing quite. This two types of players and two types of people is dirt dog in this permit -- in dirt dogs. Our guys played Kendrick the -- tweaked his hamstring back in a day or two later. In permit -- has our guys like Ellsbury. And clay buckled. Who have a little problem in the sit out for weeks and months and it's hard and I understand Ellsbury had real injuries and better. -- has bought culture actually buckles -- -- broke his back. Currently being buckled doesn't have Paine -- likely buckled but I think 2000 innings. You know I do like about just stating our community. Earlier I hope you're not stating facts you're stating opinions let's declare your opinion is that Clay Buchholz wants to pitcher not at once the not pitching -- paid for -- And you're making -- -- sound like a guy just wants to have like a -- summer head out to the beach with his buddies really makes millions of dollars doesn't have to pitch well I don't think anybody suggest. I don't know what he would he would like -- -- go to the golf course and no one put anything on him to put it on Beckett being -- -- -- you know. But I think -- to. I don't think he has had dirt dog mentality that you know that that arm you know Schilling was talking about. -- that is indeed John that's our I think you raise an interesting point forget the early stuff because honestly. I think yours you're straying into an -- an area that we really have no idea I don't know what his real motivation as Michael. I don't I don't I don't wanna I don't wanna strain to trying to figure out whether Buchholz is a guy that just doesn't wanna get paid -- -- to get paid but I'll play. But just whether or not he's got the dirt dog mentality. I think that's a much more reasonable place for us to go base not just don't what we're watching with him. But based on the reaction from a manager that's honestly the thing that it draws this out of me because I usually do have discomfort and. In trying to -- trying to separate drives is really hurt or not or what is it if he just doesn't wanna go out there if he doesn't love baseball. On and on we we don't know that eight. -- ads trying to hard to believe well. I've been hard to believe that the clay buckle is. Sitting around saying you pitched. Here in the summer. In enjoy abide by Buchholz bowl. Get paid. To do it doesn't seem like -- now does -- I rodeo and Erik Bedard may be who he is lucky in he'd. Draws a lot deeply makes himself a target by interpret art by taking himself out of his own no hitter. And because his teammates his managers people at every stop along the way have said those things about him. I never really heard those things about -- I never heard anybody say -- -- doesn't like playing baseball and they just likes kicking back by the beach and get paid for I never heard the news the other here's the other issue and I -- We have to get into a deeper analysis. Of pitching to see how this all bears out over a five to ten years spanned. -- Nolan Ryan has a pretty good idea when he at times rails against. Of the way pitchers are handled today now we don't know that that we're not gonna go well we're far from the days were guys pitched 300 innings in the season. And Nolan Ryan has been there you know to 85 to ninety went back and get -- New York. But I wonder if if part of the problem is -- pitcher's arm and they are managed in the minor leagues. And I know you wanna protect the asset -- Sony Pictures in the arm but maybe they should be pushed a little bit more. You know guys are are given pitch count early. When did they ever learn to be. Bulldogs want to look at the Strasburg is the situation is perfect. One they ever with the colors that you can have a dirt -- wouldn't. It recovered to be one I think when you're around the players that you end up being around in the league when when when the guys talked to you who were veterans who have been through the wars and when you hear things like Curt Schilling is saying. I think that's when you're supposed to get that mass OK but if -- Strasburg but what I mean wasn't it wasn't buckled around shilling for a couple of years that's great but -- -- but -- to say. -- -- -- In your round great mentors. Anything -- and matter if you feel Angola -- you do your team the jury you're not out there every day like that that popular reason that that first -- and -- oats company him. And the organization says that's great Stephen. But on this date your season is over. You can have good they'll want to let them deal. Let them -- are we don't want to do what you're sorry and that's what I was right about Taylor Eric Bedard are they are a dart -- you think you can get hurt after a 109 pitches Porter has said your manager self -- at more than once money. Anything you wanna get done you better get done before you get to a 120. Why would you embarrass yourself. And put your teammates in a bad position by taking yourself out. Want to pitch and if the guy takes it away from -- fine so be it now I know that splitting hairs I really do. I know there's something about it but the little intrinsically off their because at the end of the -- the result is the senior out after a hundred -- 120 pitches. But wants to be out there and let them say now cliff Buchholz. Want to be out -- show everybody you're desperate to get out there and if the team says hey we just can't risk it. Let them be the ones to say don't say yourself because now your teammates are all asking questions or in this case at the very least people in town. 61777979837. Your calls next quite buckled should return soon it's all -- all the W --