Jul 9, 2013|
Red Sox assistant general manager Mike Hazen joined Rob Bradford to discuss the process of transitioning minor league starting pitchers into major league relievers for the season's stretch drive. Hazen discussed the Red Sox' pass success in making such moves -- such as with Jonathan Papelbon and Justin Masterson -- while explaining the challenges that come with finding relief help at the trade deadline.
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Welcome to another addition the Bradford files -- awhile but were back. Back -- better than ever and today to be talking with the Red Sox assistant general manager Mike Hazen and what we talked to Mike -- about. It is specifically. Bringing up minor league starters. Later in the year to be home reliable. Use full guys in the bullpen for the stretch drive. We've seen it done with a Red Sox a few times the last few years with Jonathan Papelbon 2000 -- You Justin Masterson. You have clay buckles even try to for a little bit Fuchs -- -- 2010. There's plenty of examples of this happening in and the reason why this happens. It is because of the cost at the trade deadline for relief pitching. Is so high it become very very uncomfortable. And if you can do something internally it becomes tremendously important. Instead of giving up. This to say the Eric Gagne trade where the government David Murphy. Kason Gabbard. In a minor -- in that trade and we know how that didn't work ago. Is very very Dicey situation anytime you go out and get guys in the market because teams are gonna hold you hostage all the way to the end. And even examples where it worked out for team. Texas coach -- are. Good acquisition but he gave up Chris Davis form. So you gonna have to give up something to get -- even the notion of something in return. And it and we know -- to say it again. The unreliable nature that is the bullpen that is the relief pitching. It becomes so Dicey and not to say that you're going to be able to call up a minor league starter who might have. Entered in the bullpen for a week two weeks and figured out and getting huge doesn't Fenway Park and that's going to be the all be all and -- But there are guys who can do it in the guys who are physically able to do it resilient enough to do it or you might hit on one. Some of the names -- who might be hearing in in the next few weeks of the next month break in work men who relieved a little bit are believing college. You have Great Britain a guy was just promoted to Pawtucket a lefty who has been -- left handed hitters in double way. You ruby Della Rosa who a lot of people believed. It's gonna end up as a as awaiting a reliever in his career. And has gone on a tremendous role for Pawtucket this year. So those are some of the names that we can already start disgusting now whether or not the Red Sox do that we don't know yet we don't know. But at least because of what these other guys have done the conversation -- -- and -- k's in. Again the assistant general manager for the Red Sox. Has a unique perspective he was the farm director when the Red Sox did this transformation. With Justin Masterson 2008 also the farm director when they did a couple other times. With a couple other guys. And now he's right in the middle of it heading into the non waiver trade deadline having to make these decisions talking other teams weighing how the acquisition cost is. To go outside the organization compared. To what you have inside your it is patient so for this unique perspective let's talk to my case and might you have a unique unique perspective on what we're talking about which is minor leaguers. Who have been starting may be morphing into relievers and first of all welcome to another you've been on the hot stove show. But I know -- you've also been on -- calorie and this is the next step the next evolution there. They sort out which direction work or. Won't figure better -- is -- that there's a bigger read this is about this is the pinnacle. This is what does this is the pinnacle. But I thought that you would offers unique perspective for a lot of reasons number one because you were farm director starting 2007 and during that time you guys made the move in 2008 actually. With Justin Masterson which he was the starter and then see him and I think -- July 23. Which was the first year our first day that she literally for parents if you can kind of take me through. What that decision and what went into that decision and and how hard a decision really was. Right so good that your questions there was there -- couple factors and I don't remember ever in that decision I'll kind of walk -- I think. What are member I think you know on the general topic of what you're talking about. The first finger remembered. In a lot of ways what we do the hours you know it's it's Bogart's Pedroia at flowery it's it's typically -- you know extra way. Paid eight and just be about one position you play that for one position at the may well that's great. Congratulations. About one guy gets hurt your -- Major -- after all Bob's you know we need guys that can protect the batters spot and so. Parallel front. Much like pitchers we have starting pitchers that we were like that's great we have a lot of starting pitching depth. Starter goes down starter we -- all -- guys -- now. That's not helping much. You know it in the terms of for thinking of Tripoli came as protection that. We think -- certainly of the last eight years up in your with a really good in almost every or years. You need to focus on which he'd been to. And I think I am not mistaken -- first came up from double starting pitcher we -- it -- starter and and and that happened a number that's almost every vote not. -- -- -- Make up the start pitchers. -- what happened in those situations and just to the island where it happened to not throw -- -- up. -- yep yep 2005. What happened in. You get into the seat and ends in starting pitching depth aren't large we watched Topper to acquire key. There will be. Its. Hard court or are you more or is. They are close but -- one of the middle. You know we just there just are more relief pitchers out there that are available starting pitchers just. It's harder market navigate and so were starting to walk off. He got to get so deep in which deal like or are Asian Ellis L opening up or it might. Thought he summed up. Or keep in mind that you. As you get your betraying no that there are going to be and so you wrap your ability to make it tree where people don't. Thirteen. And in all thirteen think -- while. Only tree so that's were starting that it shall crucial. Well -- June July. And go well star pitcher there's urgency that they reality that there under the total treat guys sort that you start -- So -- start which. You relief -- which are it's. Another completely well. Another thing you need to treat for when you move through -- dirt cheap and I think that aren't. -- like we started matched and vote balk rule out all the other guys earlier in the summer. Get up at least they're -- We feel like were pretty good spot or dish out a couple protection. While tree so at that point and July so he's going to be now. -- -- -- -- -- -- Oh still a couple guys back in the rotation appointment at large speedy young pitcher. To spare leader. It. And then -- start to use so. And it it you mr. -- up top and I'll put -- make that deal. Or -- schedule we heard it. Maybe I can beat that. And so that I think it started a tradition. -- a lot of guys. In the deep. On Tuesday as they -- the -- at all. Now to try to got all the heat. You know start. Will you go back to that that Masterson switch and he actually ended up being a very key part of that run to decimate. And and he's probably I don't wanna say it was a trade deadline acquisition but he was as good as any trade deadline our acquisition could -- Going back to what you just said about as you get closer to the non waiver trade deadline. He talked about stars you talked -- relievers is also factor in relievers are so unpredictable. And so on reliable and also costs so much at the deadline may be even more than starters in some respects. Does that factor as well. Course so I mean all factors I would say that there are a lot. I would date yep that's extremely call it you're you're kicking guys operating situation which which extremely all of our game you know. There are a lot a lot of different factors in that regard it would be achieved in the city. Lot of currently. And tenure expecting -- in clutch -- they would probably sit out the -- the acquisition cost shall we are subject especially you're going. For the backpack -- that aren't so total aren't. In your system that you you're out a way to pitch in those situations. It's extremely article for you to be. They'll look there's there's good there's there's that we want somebody get its eighth grade it and and it's not just because of their -- and not because -- -- But some of the old or it's also the reliability factor. You know they -- give up to a big people well Bob Hope to do it you know they're not gonna. You know you go to nickel belt in the dugout in the well out. And the next they're they're not available because -- now that that that that's why. I think gene will pay a little bit more about like that that alive though there were. But what you just -- I think I think -- which in. A lot of parity you're -- more reliable from typical aboard and and that's why it's sold out are the guys that medal in. Can pitch in those type situation going down the stretch because -- -- -- -- agent and they're Warren knowing that their their age. You know what you might get a better ball and I Arturo to. Well that's a thing about Masterson that really struck me -- Not only was -- pitch all the time but he was pitching in Suton really high leverage situations and you -- a palpable on the same thing a young kid who nothing seemed to phase of and and so with those examples and you mention others. I think -- -- another one -- 2010. Update is is it having gone through the success of what your organization has done. When you look at what might be down the road does that make you think hey you know what we did this warrants. We know kind of what we're getting into it or not I shied away from it particularly. When you have to get in the uncomfortable position the trade deadline of giving up too much. I think yeah I think look that. Very the triple -- team -- there -- depth for the Major League club. And and those pitchers the twelve pitchers that are on the upper approachable with the Fijian pocket so -- We have to look at them and being -- impact in some way shape or such certainly. You know that's gonna be one of the areas that we -- -- to make an impact on our Major League team whether in the rotation in or applicable time -- Webster. With some of the guys it's happened and chase as well and kind of you know and I will rot with. You know by and large and solid keep the couple then. Cilic or -- -- well audible and which are some of those other guys via -- but well. So so so little bit of club and -- are. All almost got that are triple -- to be ready to come up and and what personable veteran search operatives actually so certainly. -- ordinary that we look at as in July. -- at all but although there's also going to be external -- that you know because there there are multiple car -- -- -- you know you're not just -- -- -- what's going -- -- in in in charters because. Look no organization that accurate that they -- any pitcher. Maybe St. Louis Cardinals. That any pitcher that opening -- in our -- and -- we're gonna have to look at older people internally and. Let's talk about oh yeah I know the actual transformation. Because as I said Masterson I think his first relief appearances July 23 that year. How much. Leeway do you have to get a guy into that position obviously going from a reliever who were starters at some a little bit different get ample -- innings wise. But is there a time where you say we need this much time to get this scared understanding what goes into being a relief pitcher. So good that they're really your question I'm -- there's a different school all of our. Yeah I think there's there's probably a little bit about it but we. Were. Physically -- now you know physically he got Porsche yet beyond three -- mark. Get the -- -- and start pitching all that so physically not spent. You start Monday that -- all went. You know it's I'm down what you -- and apple and admirably. You don't it's one of the big big vote -- the pitcher out. You want to you know June. You start throwing first talking you start or. Do -- and there's. There's some sort of -- in the report now that that that well or for a while they're at but. Surely in the ANG they're charted out there -- peachtree street where corporate -- Editor called down. What are you get three hitters are up one and -- start out. -- accurate and so that -- it's here or you. That's probably be a strike bigger courts are. In certain leaders there's no starting -- in the minor league system that got to retain our years it never -- urging them. Remember we got the ball and experience starting pitcher I figured you know. Guys that are in trouble right now. You know. Like Webster I don't know that never -- -- probably not work and would never relief work and -- reliever. Do you guys. You don't know. They don't know what it's like to just get yet -- considered all all. -- so that it all worked and it. Yo that's what that's -- -- you the next question -- -- wanted in college. And I'm not sure Masterson did in college did buy it. The use the release and what. Yeah I think match ended -- -- contacted export so yeah so I mean I don't like. Again in and individually in -- it's completely to what it worked but yet that's one of the fact that we looked at. Sort of mental preparation. That's probably that they think -- morsel of OJ. They're having competent and well. Are hot Albert ego I just over who should be -- -- -- board game where it started that your forty. You know debate -- like if if that's all. That's probably be -- When you look at the specific pitchers in what they deliver how much is a way to into. Exactly what type of pitchers they are in other words. It drew -- off of the year now. And and I can go down a list of -- couple candidates. Been in the minor leagues who might come up and be left instigate laughter is out. Do you look at that specifically do you look -- guys say this guy throws hard or this guy throw strikes. Or is it just the entire package of this guy has everything we we want and we think he can handle. It's probably what collapsed and he says. Yeah you're like left in Europe now what -- all all we -- -- left. Certainly we do have right purple and Lackey so Ryan Miller was a little reverse split guys this year I mean I think I was probably are short yeah. So well. But I mean we to have other guys that throughout the courier that the more -- got lucky to shall we do have. That ability Europe and probably not after you're that you -- and -- -- mean we're we're. But yeah you don't replace what you. Wish so upset small organization and -- which -- at the intro in week or inter or universe external. I don't think there's any wants to look at it that you guys went to the jail you may have got that power. Got all they have got more guys guys like. You know I just Wilson and all sorts victory couple -- sent to you mean they're all completely got it. Virtual world -- are out -- got don't it's. Most of Dockery. Puget backwards Morgan does word Wilson will -- forward. All of our guys were pitched it back so they're they're there they're totally different guys they will be active and you know indeed -- John in war options. There -- certain situations. Helping each matched up stepped minister up. You know doing their homework or in terms of where the cup match sorry guys I don't think there's once joked that it. Older real back in the ball in the or ninety mile an hour from being our. Archer report got -- that bird in the ritual all right. Stack of them all right. You know -- yeah. There are never dare to think the relievers that's true leaders they'll all of -- Circle is once joked that I think they probably have bought it from -- that we are -- to look I don't share -- you know role. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- I'm gonna happen to them. And get you ready to pitch and that's the biggest -- triple and two starting pitchers you well there and get beat up. Your State's failure. Your offense takes you. Bumper like that happens but. You -- -- think about it the pitching wins four games. In between when they're not a -- Intruder out early which you bring it back or the day you are mentally prepared to do that. Probably not -- The and really one of the reasons are big reason we're even having this conversation is because how uncomfortable. Agent Jeff for Major League teams when you get close to the non waiver trend line trade deadline. If you need. A relievers particularly are leaving late inning reliever. Is that position one of the most uncomfortable. In the front office because we can go through past experience probable JC Romero. ID with before you got there by it every nucleus they -- it's it's a suit me they could traded. Kevin Youkilis -- JC Romero which at the time might help. But instead you put in Papelbon in the obviously does help and you trade Gagne give up a time for him and that's doesn't work out. It is getting bullpen help one of the most uncomfortable things to do at the deadline because everybody needs it. It's not I don't think it took over -- their -- need to I think it's it's it's you look at. To look at the potential impact off. You can look at network to -- you know the American League east were very touchy subject now or game. You know I want you know got pitches and deployed in order -- -- you closer something all our. He can be extremely important. I think if you look at it. -- -- -- guys mr. terrible he's just -- a little victory in tactic game middle market that's why people return so we are I think. -- create start running second in nearly as much of the players are really what you start pitchers. Bachelor caught should be through by Milwaukee are. You know. Teams have you need to back couple -- -- you look I don't know we were so we're capable. But. You know you start testing Turkey or are -- internal options yen and your electorate you know what the external options are not yeah -- can be extremely. You don't wanna be an up or you wanna be able to have internal options so that's why. You know we we've we've won a lot of guys so far mr. Wilson like bill Torrey. Take a look at these guys in somebody's got in -- ball fall. We don't outstretched. Having said that we're gonna -- -- extra market and and and what you universe believers that are out there and you know she appears to try to willing to be a -- for some of these guys. That we he'll be it's. My last question is just by general trade deadline question as we sit here. -- fairly early July do you sense things starting to pick up do you sense. That teams are starting to talk more it's it's still kind of an infancy in -- deadline. Don't think stunned and start out -- I don't know the year -- activities. But things are starting to start now. Conversation that they are more reduction. Really what struck the boss is at thirteen or were acting airlock watch. Understand it. And I think that's what. That's why we got -- you know Internet conversation all the GM -- it out our but. You know everybody still thinks it all the -- all of the -- mark. Nobody moving and pieces that we -- it's hard to move. It's hard to a picnic players in the club think that your pitcher can chat. I think you start to move in July are searching for it and so we're we're realistically climbing over at X many teams. Well probably not going to be and it would probably need to maximize our term answer players. Yeah I think you saw where are horrible on on on child -- And do you think like that I think it hurts you know not eat out there are probably at 41 burned out are out there it. And you know but what circle while carters the way more or whatever. Also -- out world. All four games while you were running the other. Joke or. Such -- do it's it's starting. -- -- go to conversations start you know start are starting get more specific. Do you think your start to trickle of activity over the next ten days that's really irk you grip separate. All right great stuff Mike congratulations. On reaching the pinnacle of your radio broadcast tenure. I don't know where -- -- from here this article this is this still doubt it since it's like reaching full -- capacity all you wanted to do was maintain now so. Or are you slide down did -- expect the schools thanks for coming on I appreciated. Arabic.