Jun 29, 2013|
Sean Grande and Cedrix Maxwell are together again for "Celtics Summer Cooler" and discuss the official end of an era for Doc, KG and Pierce and where the Celtics go from here. They are also joined by ESPN's Jackie MacMullan who gives her opinion on the trade, Doc's exit and their draft.
Transcript - will not be 100% accurate
There is a field of study in mathematics it's called chaos theory. Around about a 150 years they use it in physics and biology and even economics and engineering. And chaos theory basically is is very complex mathematical theory that says in everything that seems to be chaos and everything it seems to be utter craziness there is a pattern. You can predict the future by the and so -- something it reassures mathematicians that even so it looks completely chaotic. That's how you configure it all out. I suggest to you today that the inventors. And the believers in chaos theory. We're not involved with the Boston Celtics this week. Last week until the summer cooler we talked about the possible future of Doc Rivers. And the possible future of the roster heading into the draft -- little did we know one week later. We would be left to figure everything out and sort through. As emotional week as you can possibly imagine that those you don't know optional granny says Maxwell is back in Boston. Max are you doing with a whole thing -- Which barred all of it all of idle slowly coming -- think this wage on that and look at this in the way -- it's gone now. Is come up what I thought would eventually happen. And -- in the -- -- to trigger. Doc Rivers has something to do with it and it to me. Public believe you're smelling. Kevin Garnett Paul Pierce leave here -- smelling and looking like he wrote. Doc Rivers doesn't leave it like that Ray Allen doesn't leave here like that so you got some different than their different. It different takes that you could look at this ago why now. I could not have possibly imagine -- -- formulated the idea of doing the show for you guys all summer that we be sitting in the week after the draft almost -- where we we've formerly the idea -- formulated the idea of how the show was going to be done. You know the actual work part not the idea what did you guys do a show every Saturday all summer it'll be great the actual work of figuring out what we're gonna talk about the couldn't. Possibly imagined it would be spending a lot of time. On the draft the week of the -- that's gonna be the way it is in later throughout the summer we're gonna talk about things like. Talk to some of the guys from the nets the national perspective future going forward but there are simply too much this week. To cram in when you deal with a weak and not only to have the Doc -- departure would be two or three weeks in and of itself. The legacy of Paul Pierce in Boston is two or three weeks in and of itself the legacy of Kevin Garnett which is -- interest in one among the many topics will probably be getting into over the summer is there to me I still come across people once in awhile that are under some sort of dilution. They Kevin Garnett number one not be retired. As member of the -- -- I can assure you absolutely will absolutely should be. Obviously Paul Pierce discussion where he ranks all time sometimes I'm surprised that people don't have the full appreciation for where Paul Pierce is in the history of the Boston Celtics all that. Is for later we have. Trained to react to we have. The coach departure to react to. And this week to me is about the emotions -- everybody I think the undercard of the whole thing is that a date arrived on Thursday. With Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett leaving. Or July 10 when it become -- Q. Right and this other way to get to an end -- and the other fun part of it is people are saying to me involved the show well what did you have you gotta have Danny Ainge on the end of nobody can say anything until July 10 it's not official it's not an official deal so we can't you know there's only so much stuff we can. That is what that is one of the things with Timmy is -- stupid about the BA it's already happened. -- done this a done deal but you can't talk about it I understand these things going on but. Doesn't make sense if in fact you've done this deal already. Well that's of there's a bigger picture issue would constitute. The way media is now. Twitter or all of it that we accept things as having happened before they have actually happened in fact. One of the things in May be in by the way the Celtics don't have a head coach I don't even know how much of that we're going to be able to get to today as far as what is in the future because. While Jay Larranaga is name is being constantly mentioned he did a phenomenal job in the you know obviously were in a different dynamic system that coach should be Brett brown of the Philadelphia of their San Antonio Spurs a longtime assistant very hot young assistant. Interviewing for head coaching jobs. Who's expressed interest in the -- -- there was a story yesterday there was a done deal but he was go to Philadelphia 76ers and people just accept that. And once they see it on a computer screen somewhere that it's a done deal when it's not the sixes and says it's not done yet so. You know is he still coaching candidate that's just an example of what happens when week. Take what we read assume it's back and and constantly. Have to backtrack but he in this case there's there -- rules involved with the July 10 marble we all know what has happened in the deals often. Now life is gonna -- without Kevin Garnett. And Paul Pierce. And there's a lot of emotion involved now but I think one of the things the blow that I don't think people expected in the big picture until recently was the idea that Doc Rivers would not be here to overseas. This process and that I think for fans for you guys I think it is made it. Worse it's made a lot more jarring you knew one day Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett are going to be here but you assumed. It -- right away wait a -- world war or have you -- and if you have not listened. Much and it lasted only need a big -- much on -- Has already talked about this that the first day what's Doc Rivers laughed and that was what how long. It's not a month ago we talked about Tesoro aboard two months. That we talked about this brother well that brought the air when you have you asked that question. And you and that's speculate on this week and talk about that is so if you are a didian delusion that perverts and coming back. Shame -- you. All right there are a lot of different ways to start today and obviously we'll get to that we're gonna talk to the first and run into after the break Cameron try to get -- as much this stuff as we can because you know it's it's. Probably our time trying to sort out. The week and then we wanna hear from you guy 61777979376177797937. I'm -- guys and tweeting me all week and trying to get back everybody it's -- informal way but maybe not the most efficient way to it's all communications were cut into one on one. In that environment where he talked Jackie -- on who wrote as she has for the most part the definitive piece the first real peace about. -- groups leaving it she has extraordinary perspective obviously Arnold listening -- and hear from the start. We also have what has in addition to dot leaving in addition to the trade. The Internet also found something extraordinarily juicy to jump on this week as the Doc Rivers departure led to I will you know. I told -- are doing the show guys I'm knocking over and we're gonna talk out of school we're gonna do to show the way to maximize duty games a lot of you know that. Doc Rivers and are very close -- Simmons and are very close so one of the most bizarre. Moments of my life was looking up at the TV screen on Wednesday night -- seem to my best friends haven't public fight. On national television like live reality TV it was like being one of Jon and -- policy. It was just watching this public divorce happy screamed at the TV stopped. It got stopped or about -- -- -- hard. Eight by the definition are you kidding but electronically from 3000 miles away and caught the fight because one got caught the guy you'd. -- -- -- -- to restore anybody else in India yeah I'm a public how many. Oh god yeah I mean that's gas app. Ever -- that we -- That's the beauty dot -- Didn't do that he didn't do that publicly -- that in private eggs you. All right any case I know a lot of you have been asking me all week about Doc Rivers Bill -- thing we will get to a quick little. Review of it and I get why it's titillating I get why it's fun. It's -- and a week in which and a lot of people is seen Doc Rivers in a different light. Then we are accustomed to but let's backtrack to where we were a week ago way and the -- thing was hanging over everybody and we didn't really know the way it was gonna go. And on Sunday. You know we use that we both in -- figured all along for awhile doc was not going to be back. And I'm telling you as a natural fact Doc Rivers -- very close to being back here on Sunday because the one thing I never bought. Maxis -- idea that. He was ready to go to TD I think it's -- option and everyone assumes that that's it's easy job but to me. Doc Rivers is basketball coach he lives it he reads it everything about him is basketball -- are really thought he was going to coast. Well I believe that part. Sean by the -- a basketball coach. Once the genie without the Bob Hope I did I did not think that dockers with point come back here who would be much too awkward. It was going to be a comfortable where a lot of people and it could be a losing situation that your in the I didn't believe personally myself. While it's one of those things that it's more than the beauty of what happened is in some ways we're never going to know because obviously. Doc Rivers wasn't going to walk away the Celtics certainly weren't going to fire him with three years left at seven million dollars a year or so. You would have had a pretty it's a situation as I said while the interviews that we've both done a million interviews if there was one guy that could have put the toothpaste back in the tube. I thought it was Doc Rivers after what we saw after assault with a stove there at that news conference with the clippers I'd talk to people this week. And I said all right. There's a lot of heat coming down on -- from Boston and people ports sort of surprised. At the you know just in the big picture of the appearance of it now. In some ways I don't think you'll ever truly come out many many years from now. How much of this was. Danny and dot their private discussions may be one day those will come now maybe they'll write books who knows about who instigated what. And different opportunities different teams are asking permission to speak to Doc Rivers. For now. -- obviously he's taking the hit for leaving well and the perception of of walking away. Listen I have you guys all know Bill Simmons put voice and face to the sentiment among Celtics fans that. Doc what do you agree whether or not it was bill who put the voice to the idea that doc took a walk -- Do you think you did. I take away about this. Is diapers can be boo. And my my sentiment about that it would -- this. Parker had three years left of the the voice that bill put on it was this. Would think he said that I had to graduate an -- only only only it. Right there were different times that Doc Rivers that well I didn't know and -- Ellis talk of this person and in my talk to my. So there are a lot of things that Doc Rivers said that you would have to. Kind of questions. At the end of the day Doc Rivers said three years on -- the he was always to coach this team if he wanted to either side that he did not want the coach distinct. That's that is specified. That he decided that he wanted to go he say it in me this when you quote people when you get away from that -- recess. I think that it was time to hear another voice. They were not going to hear about ways anymore. And that to me was only not to. But the port of San what you what I would love shot to a -- was one time in my life for coach like Doc Rivers was been so good to society. You know what. This team and going no place. I see a better opportunity out there. And I decided to take. Interesting novel concept. That's. In other words I'm leave you for prettier girl I ever had -- And lets you know and there's the natural tendency to -- just skip to the part where you'd just offerings again. I'm leaving you were breaking up let's be friends that won't happen at exactly it doesn't -- aren't here's what happened. And I'm gonna put this the rest I'm gonna share little piece information with the guys and hopefully complete the Bill -- doctor herself the rest here's what happened on Wednesday night at draft. Bill Simmons denies that he thought he quit on the Celtics what's your response I would like to call me it is but I'm too classy for that so -- -- that's justice. Didn't have them. He really needs in the -- -- which he -- I think -- back here. -- -- -- -- -- -- What's your reaction to them the truth keeps changing I mean he's given different quotes about this he didn't know he did though. He kind of knew he wanted to trade that they -- was coming back he needed a year out. When he sticks to the story -- believe that your. Fact of the matter -- time left on his contract one point you know it's is hard. We knew you -- got to be able to pursue what he thinks is best for him professionally just don't it just admit it did. UAE the -- it was on the -- you what the south it's -- to rebuild you don't wanna be part of it. You ought to go the clippers and it happens like just own what it did. Okay. The other voices you heard obviously Shelley Smith from ESP every Davis who's hosting the draft coverage and that. Needless to say the Internet broke. From there and it winning the next day Doc Rivers did a bunch of -- you know whole bunch of interviews yesterday to Patrick show he was on the station. On yesterday afternoon. And basically everyone because that's natural question asked about the Simmons and doc didn't back away from because he was still upset about it and this is a long history between these guys. No wrote a a piece that a lot of people are hardcore Celtics and you remember in November of 2006. And basically calling for you know for actually he was one of the people in the or a view some -- -- -- -- -- -- I was in the building. And there are some review listen to his right now that were chanting fire doc. In November of 2006 it was a a common sentiment was not in than usual one and even then I sort of domicile for this -- replaced because. I really believed in soccer -- the success wasn't there and -- -- and as the Apple's conference in mind. There was already this issue between the naval knew about the other and it would build writing and vice Versa and I spent a -- -- insurers. On the idea that I think your I think your. If for all the things you've done well -- for. Everything you've accomplished I think you're off on the Doc Rivers issue we're gonna disagree and we always have obvious that we know -- that has turned up. Now in the interest of putting this to -- because it's fun to discuss but I think from Celtics perspective. One talk about the trade the future and this week the emotions of -- Doc Rivers decision you feel about it. And trade and Paul Pierce Kevin Garnett not being here anymore and the week that was the talk through our group but for now for this one time only. It's like I don't do I'm a play. Talk show host and a reporter at breaking news but let me tell you this we can put this. Doc Rivers and Bill Simmons spoke last night by telephone at -- and put all of it is -- -- Doc Rivers. Bill -- -- be a Twitter feud there's not going to be any more interviews and Elizabeth there either of those there are a lot of a -- sort of common friends very happy. Everything is all. As often -- that there. Okay how about best -- I'll -- be probably one is called -- I don't believe that. If you have if you haven't opened ones like you'd talk about a four hot minute. And you speaking you'd think that's behind you ain't gonna happen it's not going to happen because Doc Rivers that are rightful. What was said it about Doc Rivers as being the weather is one of the worst things you can say about in the aptly or any coach ever Biden. And -- not held on that one thing because when you're scientist. You're saying that bill said he was he quit. As a as a person -- -- on the when he sang you're saying that but what you just said was he left the team because he wanted and basically what I'm saying is. What you are saying what bills and you're just saying to the same things differently already left for better situation aren't built just build reacted as as a fan who was upset that he did. BO said that he quit on the team -- and I after he walked away. If you say that about -- coach. Or any player. There is going to be a Tennessee that you're going to have that is one the worst thing you can say about a player. Because I had that says about me when I was with the Celtics and I got injured in 1984. And my TV for our Brothers and got traded -- that is one of those things that is an open wound that does not heal after a phone call I can guarantee that if. Well when I'm saying it is that the the idea that they're going to be slight beat each other. In public that it's you know obviously there's going to be that -- there's Bennett and issued -- for for a lot of years saying it became public it spilled out. Openly public on live television I don't think it was. It was great television I think we all enjoyed watching it but the point is is this. The biggest issue is for a Celtic fans are conservatives. Bill Simmons and -- sniping at each other. Or is it the idea that bill is just put a voice to people being hurt a year after Ray Allen walked away it was a free agent. By late in -- time left on his contract. That -- after years of preparing for -- to leave. To spend more time this family to go back to television that this was not. What. It in in Celtics fans mind this wasn't a deal. Well it. You said that you know we host to relieve but it was to be with your family -- to go once he -- wouldn't think all of a sudden you'd be with -- on a different coast in this bizarre rolled over the episode -- a -- trades the -- in. For all these different you know it's like. A different looking Gerri at different looking George -- on the West Coast with a different point guard whenever it's you know on some were on the outside like you know we already we already have a George we don't need Julie in its. You know itself harsh cold feeling to think one media had after you've been so accustomed to. Being in the spotlight having these monstrous big games the memories are gonna have forever and obviously doc is gonna get to continue to. With a clipper team it's going to be over national TV and make a run. And I think that's that. About this not only this -- get a chance to relive that but -- we look at the way they haven't exactly and -- -- up are still going to be living. In that big game atmosphere. As some point today and obviously were already fall behind Oregon to cram a bunch stuff and and we are gonna get your calls says every week to do better job of getting to them well today as is 261 -- a little bit better every week 617779793761777979%. Of all the stuff is on the table. How do you feel about to -- -- five days later the trade did Danny get enough. Did the new coach how much does it matter who the coach is going to be for the next couple years. And -- he's sort of indicated about the difference between Doc Rivers and Kevin Garnett Paul Pierce. As much as there was animosity towards Ray Allen for leaving and where he went is there a possibility. Sans the knicks are the enemy and the heat on the enemy and the enemy of my enemy is my friend. That Celtics fans might end up rooting for the nets this year with Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce on their team if the Celtics and -- to the championship contender girls don't get. That's a tease -- that I'm actually don't answer the question now you simply a better idea -- you -- the phone number of people think about these are. Is the fundamentals I don't know much about hosting a talk -- remember I remember things like that. All right we need a common voice we need someone who is smarter than us when someone makes sense this whole thing and that is judgment on -- she would join us. Coming up next on celtics' summer cooler on W. Celtics summer cooler. -- -- -- their name announced they can they actually literally asked me what he wanted to show us an -- I have no idea that Celtics I don't know why I thought to -- the summer cooler. Little did I realize we actually need. Just it sounds like something calming and who knew that we would be dad after week like this. Sean Brady says Maxwell Max is in on Boston today and -- lovely bro what's going bomb in New York to what's going on Boston my -- shot. Yeah well what you know I think I look at the schedule -- first -- going to be in the same place the same time it's like the last Saturday in July that won't happen something that old bureau guess -- Merkel the big. And on telephones there. That bend it really does elegant very yes he'll be -- -- to sell them. We have telephones here 61777979376177797937. And now -- gonna take your calls were kind of waiting for a judgment on is gonna join us very shortly. We certainly hope it's been busy week for room. For all of us obviously a lot of different interview requests one different angles of the entire thing was that the first fifteen minutes -- -- talking a lot more than I want to troublesome thing and hopefully that it's finally over with. The idea of Doc Rivers and his choice which I think is what is going to be on. For the most part going to be on your mind today but obviously that the trade happened and Max that we we haven't had a chance to jump into its -- My first question I guess Max is did he get enough. In this situation I think he did. And a lot of people have talked to me about it by the if you tell -- about you got 31 round draft choices. Accommodation the players coming back to you think that you haven't -- that you -- In the 04 older players to jumpstart your team I think this might be the best the best deal available. In -- -- without -- while I thought maybe you go to Miami and you know Q Chris Bosh and Cuba -- Arnett Jason Terry and you -- the two and makes Miami stronger but at the same time you couldn't move Chris Bosh with a -- through the ways but. You know of this deal to me probably is a better deal considering them -- a number of first round draft choice -- be back. Like you start to think like GM -- and think about future well I as it has done well here's the thing like I didn't entrapment of the electorate let's finish on that you always. Like to acknowledge the fact that what I did I put the salaries together. Well you know Chris Bosh is giving twenty million dollars this year. -- that programme about twelve Jason Terry probably around about six so it in in their probably about 1819 million would have bid deals which. Couldn't come to the table and made I thought made just as much sense for both teams. If in fact you point to make moves dump salaries gay guys the way. And have opportunities but this one probably is a better deal in the fact that your able to get all these other -- hold on I'm checking the math -- that. And yeah I got the team that actually works. I'd six point 77797937. Is the number we're gonna talk to you guys later throughout the course of the afternoon what I think is gonna turn into something of -- group therapy session. Now with that in mind what you do when you have a group therapy sessions she finds among smarter than you and someone calmer than you and somebody's gonna make you feel better about everything and that is why. We turn to Jacqui McMillan went -- favorite people in the entire world joining us now -- I was thinking that. For awhile we call him Bob -- and the professor emeritus of Boston sports he's kind of like he's been -- -- the pop even though he's still around he's kind of he's in that pseudo retirement stage at this point. To meet Jackie is our go to Jack you want that job you wanna be like aren't our go to Boston professor emeritus. Well can I tell you something son I have made a very a very happy living out of being popped back up it's been the best job in the world. And felt if I can do that again and be hit back up America I am happy it is so. You're not to back up your your your -- now you're number one during your in -- seat which is why. I was -- when they make everybody feel better and you talked ML Carr this week I don't think it's gonna make anybody feel better about. What what's coming up boat but we'll get -- that Iowa this to so many things obviously this week which is sort of tip expert hopefully finally. At the very it's a B fifty minutes -- to put the Doc Rivers Bill Simmons stuff debating get up lineup for a connection deal with the stuff that matters. We have a million basketball issues to dive into but I'm more adjusted and as such as a human and one of my favorite humans on the planet. In the last. Ten years -- being here in the last six years Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce and fifteen years of Paul Pierce being here. What is your human reaction you were feeling this week now this is all happened so quickly. How long you know what I'm sad because. As I've said with a couple times in the last few days I don't think I've enjoyed. The personal growth as an athlete more than I have. With popular in particular. And I say that because you know he came here he and so on the draft security huge chip on the shoulder and it can prove everybody that they were wrong to pass found he actually did that you know. He was just really really talented young player. Wanted to be a leader. Had some fits and starts on the way up with that. I really think of that Jacob Marley bandage he had around his -- yeah F series against the teacher and -- A low and remembered I think I even wrote that day you know I don't know if this kid ever gonna get appointed yes and then some you know. I think he's -- two of the best score than ever seen that he was so much more than that. We really hit its stride here against the Celtics that. Memorable moment you know one on one with LeBron. Beating Kobe and the lakers in the 2008 finals being MVP and then -- one of my favorite all time moment and I'm sure you've got to. When they raise that banner the next season and he's standing there just unabashedly borrowing has died out in front of all those people I just got. When an incredible journey for the young man dad almost died leather jacket saved his life all of that several. Really Bob -- popular with the one that kind of I'm the most sentimental about. I think -- -- -- -- you're gonna see again. Not here in Boston that the coach but just someone that's going to be around and certainly appreciate. What he did for everybody here. And KG was you know he was he there's no question -- leave -- -- all the time and change the culture of this team it's it's indisputable that he did that. I mean I've never seen a guy that we felt selfless. In making everybody think about team first and no one can question about him nobody he was the most reluctant superstar had been around and have been a lot around a lot of them. So huge blow to lose all three of those in a matter of days. And yet we've known for almost two years that we should brace herself for exactly that well leading up to duck part I guess but those two guys we've known for the -- I think we've mourned. The departure of pierce and -- long before they actually left. What Jackie a white -- you you'd talk about the you know Kevin and -- and in leaving now. And in Dallas say this to finish on us that that. Of the guys who leveled the four guys when I think about Paul Pierce and Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett leave with you know pretty much whites and so. You know it is like being a hero through when it always be what -- was pleased with a stain on. And rake leaves with a staying on how different -- that. Yeah at that particular -- that. You know that they with the way I understand. What people have the venom they have for him but I certainly don't agree with it listen. You got to remember Whelan -- almost traded at least half a dozen times over the whole pretty much his entire tenure here. They were always entertain offers for him and he darn near pulled the trigger a whole bunch of times. His role as reduced in the off and he would and as many times it equally out on the floor for them. He willingly give that I don't ever remember him complain about it during the year do you guys I don't ever remember hearing a complaint from him about it while it was going on. Maybe some of us knew he wasn't super pleased with that but he never caused the commotion he never caused the split in the locker room. When it came time. Just before I mean they almost -- before that deadline and then he became a free agent which gives you the right to look around and make a choice. That would upset everybody obviously he -- the Miami Heat but think about it now in retrospect. What do Ray Allen one step ahead of everybody else here. He got the mideast and -- that. He can bring -- I think it may not like that. But you cannot criticize him for the that he made and I I won't I didn't and I won't now. It is the the criticism of doctor suite there's a lot of emotion involved right because those of what is at hand and the idea that. For years it's funny because in many ways people -- more years to prepare for -- departure. But they always thought it was going to be back to TV or spend more time I am practical whenever and all of a sudden now he's with a pretty girl prettier girl in Los Angeles. Did when you talk to you you had the first public comments -- it -- to talk to me a private privately or publicly cents. Did you get any of that -- the sense of ambivalence and he was trying to communicate. Did you get any. Feel any whiff of disingenuousness. About it or do you think this is guy is legitimately torn about. So I think he was legitimately torn because was and I think everybody knows at this point when you go through these. Prolonged. Story people were talking to Danny even -- his name was in the paper and people are talking to document that was -- and in the paper that was one of those people. And I can tell you he was legitimately torn he had a nagging feeling at the end of that experience he just. He was tired I think there are all tired and and I really think he just I don't know I -- if I can come back and do this again because I think he was also thinking. I'm gonna have to do without KG and I don't mean to separate him from peers but like I do thing in and -- case it's true. You know he just grew to depend on Garnett so much to keep that content that we're talking about. The whole idea of them boon to all that and can KG really embodied that for doc and I think that pot of trying to do this again with out some likely eat there with a long time to make it happen I think it was a daunting task form. Honestly. I I will went on around the morning and said you conducting 500 point I don't think this guy -- he played it. Into the nose -- it's not gonna happen. I did get after talking to people close to him having a conversation with him and I -- conversation with Danny I thought they did he would never let them out of that contract. -- doctor that he was. He was OK with coming back it was a it was a 100% and once he -- his mind he was going to be a 100%. And so I do think there was some ambivalence now. The fact remains for whatever reason. It changed something changed compensate for the time he's signed that extension to now -- to me that's human nature. At the time he's done that I'm sure he believed he was going to be Gregg Popovich and he was gonna stay here forever and everything was gonna -- -- great but you know what two years have -- by. And things change I think he had a real concern. The people were tuning in now and he's just say publicly and on and never say that to meet privately to share the same thing differently but publicly he's gonna say. You know -- -- I agree welcome -- knot their series are great it's. Is that what you left absolutely not that's not fair Toronto the Toronto by the way I'm sure a lot of the guys all the time. You do start to tune out in voice Larry Bird was the one at that no coaches stay more than three years in one place because that happened. And Danny and doc I think their relationship is very good I think they'll be friends the rest of their lives but I think that they you're. Back and forth with an in disagreement Olympic on the course that can happen after nine years that's all human nature so when you get to the very end here. And you look at it and you -- man. I don't feel as is -- I usually do about coming back. Maybe they -- different voice maybe I need a different voice with a different group I think that's -- human nature I really do. One of the things look at. You you let me know if I'm wrong or right here. The way doctors Campbell this is -- it is this turned out to be really messy. And the real and not think it it became really messy because. Doc Rivers wants to be at the end of the day. He wants to please everybody yeah right you can't please everybody. Out would have loved to. What in it would never happen obviously put one day I just wanted your coach that you know that. -- got right now a good. The other team over there -- pretty good enough to elect -- wanna coax him. Ed Ed -- and because stock is sold. You know he wants to please everybody -- well this guy I didn't bother me and sharks don't are not think that you knowledge about all about it and it is. He was trying to cover all his bases and that the Ian. Don't know bases cup. Then you're probably right it probably -- Mac and I think to. There wasn't that there's no question that when this -- first started getting was irritated by it is no doubt about it. He expected doc to be back here rebuilding money going to be fun idea they had to rebuild it was not going to be fun for him either. And I think he was irritated by a thought it was very revealing and during these press conference and it didn't get enough play I didn't think that. He talked about. You know meeting with doctor and we expect to be back in and -- cinema a registered letter you know basically legally covered themselves and we expect -- to be your coach. I thought that was pretty significant because that's that's something that two great friends would ever have to do my correct. That. But it's still a business and they have to be. And so I think initially didn't like man I can't believe he's doing this I thought we were in agreement that we gonna do this but did the Smart enough guy to understand you know what. Hit harder than a 100% in this well I didn't say I didn't look at this and say how is this gonna help liking -- you know what he's an asset. He's -- a first round pick the owner of the saint crap if we're gonna rebuild. We don't need to take at least seven million dollars a year to do that. Made a bad thing for everybody is like let's get together and work on it I really believe that happens there's no doubt my night. I just don't think it started out that way and so bad to me is the difference in the two story everybody has all -- -- different story -- has one thing doc has enough that. To me it's the same story as to the timeline is a little different. I think that's exactly right it's one of these things one day we'll find us and you're you're gonna probably responsible ones so one day and find out there will be two different you know -- -- different variations of -- like one of those sitcoms are two different people have different versions Larry. How many times -- been in a room with someone and something happens whatever it is. You know I've heard -- -- -- -- kind of people rob a bank where there's a crime committed and they and they interviewed two witnesses and they were both there in the room at the same time. But they both come away with different accounts that happens all the time. That's human nature. The difference is it doesn't happen publicly. You know every day and having to do these media appearances and I really thought I think you know most people know. Now the relationship I have Doc -- what most people don't know. Is it -- McMullen actually introduced us. We had met but until today dot became head coach it was -- election introduces -- the press conferences. And an afternoon. You know I've -- a long time knowledge actually was a player for trying to lasts so. -- have great respect for doc I have great respect for -- they're gonna survive this because the two of them aren't together anymore and I really believe that what's best for everybody -- truly do. -- I believe would be you know -- says something a little bit. Earlier you said well this is not can be fun rebuilding. Popular -- dot Ford -- yet but for daily. I think Daniel or liked this new -- years. -- -- -- -- love to move these pieces around this school of his handcuffs throw off. They'll -- any changes is essentially going to be able to do it right or wrong is going to be able to do whatever he wants -- team. To shape the vision that he sees. That could give them back to the top so I -- -- as as a kid with a bunch of new toys special we start thinking about what he's always talk about. Assets. Had a draft choices he has collected -- two of these things. And we know that -- will put these things together Campbell Morales I think there is gonna have bought what it. Well that may be true but I don't think it's gonna be a lot of fun. You know in January when they block nine in -- well. You know we can and we're still say you know what when Rondo. Coming back up but Danny Danny -- a real scenario you know but then he's the man behind the curtain. Is it's not as if he is that the guy who is sitting there is the head coach David may want great point. He said as the gene you know war is a guy dealing with players and that did position what I -- do you -- coaches wanna win. The next quarter the next five minutes -- as SA guy put the team together. How wanna win over the next couple years so that's a huge difference if you don't not in a row I think Danny was saying thank OPEC which he's not taking the heat. Lacking -- coach who. Can we all it's actually the three of us let's put just are we all in agreement that Danny has not come down to coach this team. -- absolutely I'm surprised how many people sort of that's sort of floated that theory it would -- Jack let me ask you this because. In in discussing the -- that the deal and obviously we we spent some time -- The deal gets made this weekend I think what Celtics fans. Want to know what they're debating amongst themselves because it's so nebulous and so hard to figure out with contracts at first round picks what exactly could happen here. The question is did Danny get enough war considering the Gerald Wallace contract maybe it should freeze it did Danny too much back. Right he did. That's the one the one thing he did say. That's not good because that bed next to you one -- that you want first round -- that I got four. For a first round pick. And put your own you know your -- -- and the big the big draft is next year's -- to 2014 draft. And so you you convincing yourself that such that you get ready to big contracts are eighteen players. Getting Jason Terry and that deal was huge for game because if if he didn't do that that would Carol Ross -- really is glaring. And I still think it is to a certain degree in and here's why I'm not I'm not dissing Gerald lost. I don't like Carroll walked the prayed so hard. They put so much energy neon lights he the kind of guy you like on eighteen but not for ten million dollars a year to worry I have for the Celtics is. He might help you just enough. That instead of a fifteen to twenty win you know team or whatever you're thirty win team -- 35 win team that's exactly what you don't wanna be. Now I don't I haven't talked to being about this I don't know if he -- to get down to the -- Try to get them. You know into Wiggins -- were. Markets Smart or Jabari Parker one of these other young players in the 2014 gap because to do that you've got to be really really really bad. And with the nucleus of Avery Bradley Jeff Green. Gerald Wallace -- solider and and Rhonda depending on when he comes back. You heard any better than you wanna be and that's a problem. While these guys are Humphries and Marshall Brooks is this is not this is exactly the point that I think keyboards are not quite grass and this is not twenty win team. No accident well I think you have a chance to wave. Gerald Wallace under the stretch provision. And what that means this. You wave and you're on -- much of the thirty million dollars. But you can stretch it out over seven years and periods so that you paid four point three or -- million or thereabouts persecution over the next seven years. And you thought came up and he'll be on your cap probably longer than you want. Like did you waved him and he'd gotten rid of another player that my kitchen window that you don't necessarily want. And that that could be the case but I think -- and what things that we're not talk about right now is Rhonda. In the sense that we we we assumed that Rondo is coming back. This year and we looked at Derrick Rose -- we said Derrick Rose was coming back last year. And that played so we don't know until Rondo steps back on the floor which -- going to get so you were talking about those winds which could possibly get because you have -- back. We don't know if that's what to be the case or even with the Celtics -- Rondo -- not. -- a little bit local -- heal until the second out I was talented so I'd. I don't I don't know he was -- a dumb I'm gonna be discussed discussed back from an ACL really no need no need to take your time gets stronger. -- that you know absolutely I couldn't agree more with you there now. You know it looked like that when this bird got the number one pick in 1997. They had twenty wins. The Vancouver -- had fourteen the Celtics had fifteen. They had twenty. There were other teams that I did -- -- -- twenty that's escaping me at the moment and down. But they they won because David Robinson had a cranky back so they had a bad start they fired their coach. This kind of somewhat on quite the unknown executive vice president of player development it's dining Gregg Popovich stepped in. For Bobby hill. And and then -- that coach. This -- guys went seventeen of 47 the rest of the way and one -- he did -- to David Robinson who was working very hard to get back from the back injury said. David my friend. Sit down relax we're -- to shut -- down for the year okay and they should unite and helping next here why so they can get Tim Duncan and they did you know like. -- and lucky is thing to me and everybody wants to do that and if you wanna go through Brett Szabo and big camp Hamilton retreat for Gerald Green or Sarah Sebastian Telfair was -- secret weapons the Celtics at. In 2007 degree by the way here wanna have some fun Trace the minutes of Gerald Green Sebastian Telfair whenever the Celtics need to lose games in 2007 and received more than played. Obviously the Celtics were successful to put it that way in the -- but to me isn't this. To craft well. Stock collier assets that an idea of going for the lottery to me is just he has is ridiculous to do it fundamentally the best way you can. He's you build up the -- you need do what Danny is done as well as anybody in the MBA witches. Draft well at the spot you're drafting and yet -- -- -- Well Shimon you know I think one of the things that you talked about we always laugh about. Is. I think it was it was go right golds at the time. Did you had to stay out as one of shock grandes paper's stories that he'll tell you right now about winning and losing game. Rangel is basically after the game -- and said something about well we know we're obviously we're not trying to win games right now but would cry and it's called out at camps this cameras are on right now. And you know as I say them. Well you know we all knew what was -- not on in 1997 to -- you know Eugene -- he knew. They had -- -- owner came on told told them now you're gonna take this hit for us. And then you win a few games spot on the ML in the story there was in this that's been on the web site today was saying that. They're didn't let that they didn't reported all of the -- take my begins about what. Fox. At fox -- -- -- I also have put Ian Marty could limit the that was -- -- -- -- big price. Like alassane you know I think that we take a rocket science to figure this right he does not work. Demon in the game Jackie would you do this for hours and hours in fact when they were and his staff that -- for the entire for the entire show but while Saddam. C'mon c'mon you know you know you listen who would you rather hang -- who would you rather know than. I usually hit you over the next few years we're gonna have a lot of time to fail so narrow it. Obviously he's. That you check. -- all of I take of -- oversight over them a car especially if you don't have a good mood going into it because obstacle. On depressing to some degree about the winter and that -- there's a lot of excitement and this would Jacqui thank you for making everybody feel better and for spend some time since Saturday and do it against. Had a great. I -- moon she is the best bottom line aren't promised are gonna get to your calls quick break an able setup by our number two of celtics' summer cooler for you on W. This song was written. For Celtics summer cooler in fact this should be our opening theme song because. It is like this some like that in a lot of ways are at this what happens when you put the play by play guy in charge of the talk show it -- to fall behind so. We've obviously for a little bit behind but you have my word of honor we are taking your phone calls. Next excellent Seve yes we are do not. Do not make this any worse this is hard enough as it is you hiring different places. Either one of us is talk show host we're trying to get this thing done -- no -- women are just the stream them would -- them. I can't. Thus I guess so we had our first guest our first guest ever on the show. Our first guest ever on the show is Bill Simmons and he started his first sentence on the show was like you know making from the other shows and stations and other hosts are upset about it so we'd literally. You know we we started the show we didn't even like. Take the wrapping paper this brand new show we got other people the station and -- You know this is that this is not my thing and ligament experts -- -- -- they call me in -- here's the thing of beauty about it. You're down someplace that where it is which turned -- problem off the viewers here's -- problem if I turn it off probably isn't my trump card yet okay find you wanna be in charge of all the -- -- on the cause like this -- My life blood got the call I got them right now got the main threat from -- aren't there as soon as Wisconsin -- has flash top of the hour by the way. Indeed the most amazing thing with all that all these interviews on a -- is -- station yesterday the most amazing thing about everything it's gone on here with the Celtics -- and is with the Bruins having her beating heart ripped out of their chest in one. 192 -- on Monday night is the fact that the Red Sox. Have 49 wins and the best record in the American League and they they can't get. An ounce of air time oh it's an amazing you know what's really remarkable -- -- amazing about that ST yeah broadcasts if you could be in the play by play. The growth at that. And I should be at least field turned up now is someone who diagnose someone who literally is listen to that now people are doing it because our. Does onto you I get it you're listening to the show and now people are texting me just to make its estimated market again you're all very clever -- all very Smart and Eric if I did the no I think what we all wanted to reject -- you. The Jack. You do is his political appointees. Says hello we get that taken promised because getting deep into the playoffs. And the national guys in each NBA takeover look at the local call. Memorable obviously the hero here rejected those nineteen seconds but anyways because the Red Sox on the Red -- have all the big bad blue jays are playing better they're coming -- -- -- you know one games and -- they're making their run out Red Sox beat them twice a road game three in a series coming up here on WEEI at 325. And then four car team this afternoon at Fenway -- some extra attention publishers when his miniseries as any team. In Major League Baseball but this is celtics' summer cooler and your phone call 61777979371. Of the most tumultuous. And really fast many weeks in the recent history and history period. Of the franchise your thoughts on Doc Rivers on trade Kevin Garnett Paul Pierce everything going forward next and W.