May 20, 2013|
By and large, the focus of development in the minor leagues is on players. Still, there is a developmental path for coaches and managers in the farm system, as is evident from the fact that the previous two managers of the Red Sox' Triple-A affiliate in Pawtucket -- Torey Lovullo (2010) and Arnie Beyeler (2011-12) are now both on the Red Sox' big league coaching staff. They share their insights about the differences between player and coaching expectations in Triple-A vs. the majors, while discussing professional development from the perspective of former minor league managers who aspire to similar positions in the big leagues.
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For the most part we focus on player development on the show. But what about the professional development of the people who were in charge of guiding the minor league players through their development. The job description of the managers and coaches in the minor leagues is one that is dramatically different from their responsibilities of people with those roles in the big leagues. In the minors a bunch of really competitive personalities. People who love to win as much as anyone. To kinda pushed that aside in order to stay in favor of the long term good of the organization. So. Sometimes that means putting players in position to learn from failure rather than to say turn to a veteran minor -- With some big league experience to close out a game or something along those lines. It's an interesting phenomena and brought into sharp relief by those who have coached and managed both in the minors and in the majors. That indicates it noteworthy -- the threats are coaching staff. Features two members who managed the organization's highest affiliate the AAA Pawtucket Red Sox in recent years. Bench coach -- Lavelle managed apart -- 2010. And he was followed by the current Red Sox first base coach Arnie Baylor who managed -- and I managed to elected in 2011. In 2012. Irish they don't both of them to discuss the contrast between the job description of a triple -- manager and a member of a big league coaching staff. Here's what -- Baylor had to say about the matter. The preparation work like if you do get to prepare a little bit in the minor leagues -- Your looks are not as much with the preparation appears. Off a lot different a lot more tents -- that video and it works and everything it and probably the big. -- your mind. You know what what separates those two job requirement and how how long to make that transition. Boss Marty -- laugh about when when you first. Transitions into the big league level there's probably went -- -- -- what you have to do. And in your specific area as -- when you're the manager. And player development here's your charging everything charge every little thing but they get scheduled for in the running game. Making pitching move. You know in this situation we all have our domain in our area that we have to come up in. We have expectations -- -- -- team to the right way and come up big with a plan and as -- -- there's there's a lot of video there's a lot of information and data that we go over we got through that out one game plan. And you know in my particular case. Can help in the running game -- Elton John -- come up with a lot of information out areas that are real. How different is it those focus on winning I mean it you know after years of kind of -- wrapping. You know raping your notion. In. -- other individuals are doing it is there a different level -- -- actually -- impetus at the end of the day like kind of the work you've done on whether -- W -- -- L at the end of the day well we'll start with you -- Yeah I think a lot about it you know period it's all about today and in the W that's what it's -- period and you know the I don't know minor -- have always I would say that you know winning is not important on their because winning as we -- -- is part of development which you all of that. That minor league stipulation crutch that you know we've got to develop the players there are times. Pinch hitting -- pitching -- different things let -- got -- things where guys are gonna play regardless but does. You know spirit is all about performance and it's all about the W and you know you feel that right away and it. Did you see it in the preparation of the guys now they go about their business and how they go up every day it now. You know there isn't the greater on verge mediocre. Like -- with a player to -- backgrounds of these -- combination of of both sides but we both -- and it immediately everybody here that compete in the went and that's part of the reason why were hot weather player coach. With our play develop background we wanna go out there would -- work and how these guys develop an idea or thought. To go out and keep the game plan. I know that. That there's no greater joy of player development and watch and again I work on something. Want to make them take over and over again in the final one -- get it and come into the dugout on. We'll -- a really big league level how he's fine tune that -- defuse a little bit shorter for them to learn and they say they got to go out the next few right now and now. Top prize we got to do it now we ought to win today. I mean I think that one of being in the near the right product and sharp relief moment Jackie Bradley and toward you talked about how you identify personally with him. But that mentally and that he had but you know Arnie did you know this kind of exactly the type of guy you wouldn't you know who for an. Had he been doing -- -- it for you last over the last two years. You know it's like okay you're saying in the lineup every day you're going you know you go through these pay go -- by learning. You know as someone who works with him -- who worked with him quite a bit as the outfield coach. How different was it to kind of manager guy through a situation where like OK playing -- performance base and right now the reality is not performing right now. I think player development background and everybody up here house you really helps out without because the patients that. And he has got to be patient with young players and you still have to be patient. When you're working with guys they're not performing on the night you know install often we forget a lot of times you know how hard it is to play -- perform so. We gotta be patient with the guys are not you know even -- -- situation they might still be approved plans one for David didn't LT you know. And so if you don't think the guys are gonna help me up down or not. -- -- -- as far as bringing in open to the table when you're you're not perform and -- -- whatever I mean he's a good defender and and had a good arm and in and help out other ways also sold us. You don't what we do doctors all of us trade off and helping your team win and lose in different situations enough. You know we talk about you know survival tools and things like that at this level so that all comes into play with a lot of that stuff that. You know it is a different different animal welfare -- you do after performing and now they're like to talk to. You -- get a little more time to give patients you do about that that's correct we talk about. -- we've talked about this you know in the context Jacqui you've had about fifteen what you for him up. Our efforts -- to remind you -- and numbers out there by the way but you know from your from your vantage point how how important was that experience for working with. You know for both. In terms of the work that you didn't player development. And then again with a guy like like it Jacqui you know or. Let someone -- even more that would among Mikey you know like -- will middle Brooks is going through the first -- struggle has gripped the big league level and kind of talking them through. Managing that situation. I think I had the advantage. From that I'm talking about -- making the team him in media. Really good. Questions in certain areas that we're gonna. -- that helped him on the future. Are our war or war room. -- Then native transition over the thought of getting to -- and understand what he was gonna have to go through it with a in a delicate situation a little bit easier to get out walk through that I thought. Miles player. And you know I I've always maintained that you know these players different. My situation and the -- Jackie's numbers wise that he's he's pretty unique characters he's going to be fine and about tripling manager. On that we -- really talked about yet is what that -- in the -- is doing right now an objective fact the big leagues and security are seen he's probably having more. -- one along cover agents rather than you know that time in their -- ball field. Working on the fundamental technique is that if you like by -- -- in the red planet today he will get -- out gushing out. Happened between Gary and Jackie in order to help you get back here and fundamentally you'll be fine but more like a lot -- back to normal before. That that. Praise and -- in question kind of responsibilities that are unique to the triple -- manager because they're really into in gateway to -- the fact that you guys are dealing with. You know when you were managing in -- both of you were doing with the players who were on the shuttle guys who. You know sometimes showed that they were big -- ready sometimes guys who showed that maybe -- -- big league ready. And maybe they thought that way maybe they didn't. Is that the most difficult profile of player to management in AAA or is you know how would you describe it. You know how would you describe as the biggest challenge of of being a triple -- manager. In in that deeply position on it. I think overall just had to total communication because you're dealing with different types of players are you got there the young kid did that develop -- there. You've got maybe the young kids that spend the big leagues and now coming back we've got to do that over a little bit and you've got the veteran guy that. Their for their insurance if needed or maybe the veteran got its on the shuttle so there are several different situations are that you -- working through enough. You know you we've been reports that are out -- that that our guys have come up and have been pretty successful after a week we've we've got that. Animal down there to talk to guys -- about it saying hey you know. Do what you can do it you're gonna get an opportunity it's gonna happen and it takes more than you know that point five guys up here to get through the season so. They're gonna get opportunities are gonna get chances guys are gonna go down things are gonna happen. And back communication to the overall communication -- If you did keep the carrot out in front of those guys and keep ongoing and in an album ready -- That's what makes it on. Is that the most run low level you know to -- virtual -- right there. I think I think the you know we all manage Arnie and I mean every level in player development for me the most challenging because your team like politics. You're the guy that everybody's gonna wanna go to for answers he got out of sort of finance reform at that given moment because. The walk and a lot of frustration and I'm glad -- categorized that way because not require. They're a player on time he's learned is that -- been up and down a couple times he knows. What's gone on can't really tricked him. And you can't really you can't really have fun at that moment and or that or that it your fridge has been the Big Five -- you're trying to reinvent your career. You know those are the guys that need a lot of your attention and what I always in the -- of the guys is look. You think we make that decision but it's a player that makes it. You have one good month and -- on the -- Red Sox will do if you're if you're player that you stated you performing well AAA. -- -- can't even double play you will be enough to play big league level now wait until. In the case of managing expectations. And it's an interesting problem and dilemma one that. When that's been brought some life recently by a vaguely knew who went back down to triple -- working with Gary DR united -- Adams getting out for a couple games to -- which Gary described it was it wasn't a benching he just needs an opportunity to re -- you know just to kind of regain his bearings while he was down there. How do you manage the idea you know you need to play guys who who have that kind of talent. -- -- you know I am not sort -- plan is quite the right word but being able to manage their expectations sometimes sometimes that might mean like you know okay. You're still in the minor league so you probably have. Greater latitude in order to be able to you know to kind of put a stamp on what is the right and wrong way for them to approach that. That question that urgency to reach the majors how. How how did you manage how did both for each -- you managed you know quote unquote to to open question. When dealing with players in triple labour -- a couple days or so if you. Well I think again it's just the communication and timing thing I would talk a lot about timing presentation. But the guys in and it goes back to communication. And time and again guys things happened at every level in. You know there's different stages in guys' careers word you know you kind of have to step in and and in handles things and there's other times were. You can look the other way and overlooks and things it just depends on where Iraq and how things are going. You know I don't think there's any concrete answer any book to go through it it's all about experience enough. You know both of us been fortunate to -- a drive through the minor leagues at every level and and get that experience and and you see how important that is also up for the big league level where you're dealing with multiple levels of players to an experience. Levels up here SOA. You know it is all the make it and it's so funny how it all goes back to -- stuff. A lot of communication you got to talk to guys you've got to have a little feel for the right time. When to talk to guys you know within the course -- games maybe maybe the next day. Maybe that night that you -- never know but it and then sometimes it it's just as much for you is a per and the manager were. You know sometimes you got to -- awful thing to an angry at yourself. When things get rolling -- and so it that's all just part of it part of what we do when they had the experience comes into play to. So hopefully make the right decisions that benefit the player in the end that's what it's all about. Blatant double enable -- you know because kids were so eager though these yeah in the Arctic infielder got a New Orleans or been targeted this week at home. And they would jump on board -- never. The -- players that have been in the big leagues that the little more relaxed and more about it before. -- development. They they got -- got to figure out a way to convince them by dancing got to be a little creative writing -- best we've got to got to communicate you don't communicate namely that everybody. But the one common denominator for me -- I always tell the truth. Went and got him right between the eyes do you agree with your thoughts and other times have to buy their thoughts. To get that point across that that comes with getting you know home I think we've we've worked hard to get to -- guys played moments ago what motivates them what -- it out of reach him. In this part of being a -- just got to figure out the best way to get an author or. And it really to me that it's such a crucial functions -- be able to kind of get those. Last organizational met a guy especially when he has options that sort of thing. Mean there comes a point in a player's career words in the majors and he can't go back down it's not like you can you know because if he's a discipline problem in the majors that point. Not like you can do a lot about it you know it's not like you can do a lot about it whereas you know in that in that last level believe that finishing process. You still have that ability to kind of really make that slash impact and didn't guide before you hit the big -- that kind of use it or is that just me as an -- speaking. -- what sort of make your point a minute ago about the players and you know ultimately I don't think and then agree totally with him it -- it goes back to the players of the players -- play in the players. You know we can but ourselves on the back as much as we want as coaches but ultimately the players got -- Then it. You know us from a motivational standpoint from a development standpoint from whatever you can come up with the greatest plan a great game or whatever but. Players -- what their play -- players that. How those issues are talking about ten that we don't elves out along the way. Because you you can't. Do that play to get successful you you've got to be a day when guy you've got to show up with passion is an effort every day and play our. Or nearly you don't end up playing on a championship team in the Big Easy to -- work out that way so I think ultimately the players kind of -- Latin take care vote vote. You know hopefully as you do with kids somewhere along the way you hope you can develop some so maybe some -- some good outlets or some. You don't improve those players we all think we can and that's why we coach and we try to help it. Don't -- Altima that figure comes down to the players have to take -- Karen runway that sooner or later or you move on the next guy. In terms of your professional development and in both the -- and he is one thing that it's striking to me. You know you get up to the majors you have an area specialist specialty that you talked about not you're not managing to -- senior managing the function of the game. Both of -- or infield -- in your professional career as both the view. You know kind of broken typically coaching that's as outfield coaches that is that something that you kind of you know because you had. The grounding of management or you know mention everything in the minors that you're perfectly comfortable with scores like okay well I guess. Of course you know all of do it but you know kind of have to get your bearings a little bit. Well I think it is managers. Throughout our careers in the minor leagues we were. Watching outfielder who were watching it feels a lot of -- need pitchers and we and we became. Fairly. It's in what date with the entire team is doing what they were doing any given time to. To make improvement. Items that would have to be good outfielder by watching good -- talking -- -- -- -- -- moderately but when he came to have written them big league coach. I had to go out kind of figure out and he gave us because I was gonna be there one on one with the outfielders and I relied on a couple really key or is. That -- great admiration integrated information. You relates an outfielder and you know what I what I ever was very similar to beat it and feelers about being athletic team in good position watching the game. And all all of the all of the they. -- are about Ian hey prepared baseball player and that's what I help you do on any given day on top knows all working with a base runners. And I always had a great love great passion for watching days running they knew it and to help these guys advance ninety feet of snow along the way you know wasn't any of my strength but it was on that I paid attention to as a manager -- a -- Ernie how it -- being -- in Europe and helped fuel an official outfield coach for the first why exactly what -- I was you know. Concerned about that all so but I again I've got some great resources -- -- went down -- -- -- -- he went down outside and you know -- talked with a lot of people around -- just try to learn as much as I can now feel like. I didn't have the benefit Victoria -- play the outfield a little bit I never did salon. But again it goes back to -- you know preparation and -- working with these guys. You know we can all -- knowledge base -- just kind of put a plan together collector and work with them try to help -- be prepared and you know the banks from things you know while we've enjoyed it replaces it was a they still got coming up and things like oh. That's kind of been fun for me a little bit but again like he says -- reinforce them. The management standpoint you know when you manager in charge of catching in the outfield the infield and even the pitching to an extent different things and hold runners and control and runners and and everything's soy you know it's just kind of broadening that a little bit and it's it's not our special the first segment. You know infield probably was our specialty either don't we just played it now when we got to coach that we went out a little bit more about it also -- That's what it's come down to for -- and you know hopefully I continue to learn and and broaden it expand and or I'll learn from these guys every day of great help. With almost everything about being individually as you know everyone that it's more glamorous you know that travels better like I was -- hotels -- better. -- gateway between being on being a minor league manager and a big week coaching staff members often first base coach. You have to hold a lot of thought at first thing. You know is that the that the -- the blood in the area of of making it onto a Major League coaching staff we're like. All right this is part hadn't really thought through. Over the years a little bit more. Into it with these guys -- Wear you out any given time we editor haters out there you're gonna get. Collection here in a -- -- I get those things put them together try to make them. We'll I'll we'll condense them and hold on one hand I see -- it would not put them on a resort to that if I had I would resort to that if I had to let. I try to put in one hand like it up watching the other hand but he doesn't always work that is. Art in house -- -- going to you know when you went after it -- that around but that's a lot to hold all the best things you find out -- -- about boys normally you know -- -- on -- guys to come and help yes -- you know. Yeah 45 guys are ultimately order honor -- no work put things. Thinking about little velcro felt the time maybe yourself only to get things on out there around. We've -- There's data yet cabin about a way to do that but you know we're not the first place dug out. And he gets stuff. Like at the utility belt to the new light as as the new equipment of the the grizzlies coach the last personalized related your professional development. You'll oftentimes hear when people are being interviewed for managerial job for big league managerial jobs. If it's a guy has only minor league managerial experience you know people say oh he's never coached in the big leagues before if a guy only has experience as. A as a non manager in the -- weather as a bench coach or you know. Never managed to the degree he's never -- any level or even though he's been a coach in the big leagues. You guys -- perspective on what the most important grounding you for being a big league manager what. What experience is the most crucial if you -- further your ambition which assume both if you do towards becoming a big league manager -- You know like -- by the -- got to answer that he's been through better views on things like that I mean you know for me out here. You know I've done out of Tripoli somewhat through the same thing -- -- from the public -- I think the experience been around older players and then and they. Older guys with -- experience up there because it's definitely different. All facets of the game up remotely SOA from the age range to the abilities to schedules just everything. And there's definitely something that experience wise how to deal that deal with players. Different personalities. And -- levels and stuff like that so. You know -- it's definitely doesn't mean anybody can't do it but I I do think there's a lot to the experience factor that comes with. Being around big league players no matter where you're out whether and when footballer. Whatever it is and reflect minor leagues wherever that just you know well most guys and managers got guys also. Don't think there's any gateway to the right thing. It's its product. Navy who you know. What what environment coming from. It's windy environment. For example. Right there is that nobody really knew government here as well in Washington Nationals and -- him. -- -- -- -- -- I think you know they're they're only different factors. The bench coach as well as the fire he's probably been manager. -- On the field. What -- further is out relationships. In what makes big league player. You know communication. That so many different factors. I don't think you can pinpoint one thing. This guy is gonna be immediately. I think we walked in interviews. Really gave strong feeling that this gentleman knows they want to. -- project. Their -- If this guys -- and -- that -- have a good idea here you can. Have you found that -- if you have the has the experience of it and interviewing for big league managing job in different for you and you've had mutually coaching there. You know I believe you threw one Major League spots I was -- the coach that was with the Red Sox two years ago. And beyond. They said. Everything was great they just wanted to go a little bit more down candidate and bodyguards on him. I understood that you know it's it's funny when I was in Cleveland they -- that I didn't have Major League period coach and therefore. Yeah -- won there when the release candidate of I think it's important that you're here -- not in a city. But support for the reasons that aren't at -- -- slaves that understand what makes a big league player tickets have been out there were four in the ability to communicate and watch that. To hear the complete interviews with both thirty Baylor and -- -- bellow or hear any past episodes of the show visit WEEI dot com slash podcast. The shot that's a producer Petr today and thanks all of you for listening. Look forward to checking back in next week.