WEEI>On Demand>>Who was a Better Clutch Hitter: Jim Rice or Manny Ramirez?

Who was a Better Clutch Hitter: Jim Rice or Manny Ramirez?

May 18, 2013|

Butch Sterns discuss the difficult question of who was a better clutch hitter Jim Rice or Manny Ramirez. The phone lines were full all afternoon as listeners discussed many diferent points of view on the topic with Butch.

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Works Aristide is good stickers. So well why don't work this time -- stairs. Forged irons and I think. You'll I did well a sports insider. Make -- there and now here we pulled up. -- on the WEEI Sports Radio network. Hour hour and a half to go lead after Red -- baseball in Minnesota. Yeah off Minnesota tonight against the twins. Ryan Dempster against diamond Dempster and diamond on the mound tonight. And it is the -- this. Roll a couple of weeks ago we are derby poll we gave you horses there are only nine horses in the field. Bring the -- man back -- if he's around sauce venue there. -- took only nine courses the feel -- -- get it takes six unsuspecting souls from the callers today. That I am going to pull out of a hat and give them a designated horse you myself. And did enjoy our gonna get horses out of a hat and I know your shift is almost over right. Oh you well you don't flash is up -- at the end of the show. Yeah. You'll be -- flashes up until 630. All right so here's -- wanted to do we're gonna give horses to six different -- not the first six I lied before okay. Good thing there's no contest here because I'd be sued by now and so with the station. People gonna have to -- whether they get a horse -- not and when they do. When they do we will play the. We will reach into the -- forces. Name out of that and then after the six or given. It's awesome man do you enjoy alum myself lined up with the last three horses and we'll -- -- -- you quote that's us. Get your name announced on the radio. Debit but it. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Free -- at the greatest greatest bar 19000. Sure it. -- that already exists yes the fact that it bites us and we'll check -- -- in just a little better right expected falls Bruins on the table game two tomorrow night. Jim Rice vs Manny Ramirez who's a better hitter in their prime are in his prime somebody text -- you proper English butch. A horse racing talk it's about freaking time somebody text and a 50 wait let's go right back to the phones but rocky Dover, New Hampshire. Iraqi. -- -- -- on -- -- I've got your answer that manes -- right thing by you guys brought up in Maine saw -- our charter real quickly if you don't mind a Carl Yastrzemski in 1967. Actually dominated all those guys that yet nobody ever had a season like that and I'm talking and look at the players. Howard's submit spot and Bruce purchased -- boy. -- -- what a big big names there. And that you stressed carry thirteen. And also. Probably play one of the greatest let deals ever seeing demand -- at Fenway Park it's one of the greatest. Seasons in baseball history and gut. It's do when Miguel Cabrera as the next -- to win the Triple Crown last year. But kept such as such into -- as far as what. Yeah yeah it's scary that whole team okay carried that team much you know me and other Iraqi. Trying to get to the answer to question you brought up -- for what reason and in this debate. He can touch yes for one season. Comparing him in the year brought it up and I'm just stand and on -- as news about a year yeah I know -- that's not true. Are both both of them had years like he has not is good but like yeah. And any took over the World Series -- play consistently Clark stating and dale rock no rock rocky. Rocky nobody's arguing as a Triple Crown you but your statement is wrong. Because if I fight if I said do you if I said to anybody. Give me the ten best seasons about it -- give me the best and American League seasons compared Diaz is Triple Crown year. I would argue without looking him up that Jim -- 1978. And Manny Ramirez 2000 in the one -- you know 165. RBIs are in the top ten so. All right -- I thought I thought disturbs you went to the World Series and realize that the other guys did those years that we're talking about outrage and I didn't realize they also got gold gloves okay so you can't compare but that's my opinion and market if you watched that if you watched yet here -- idea how old are never seen anything to compare to the anyway how do you actually get back. Rocky how rocky Holden. 54. US AU eight in 1967. Our -- news. No more than that our -- You wanna leave you born in 69. You born 69 right. There aren't. So you cannot I was eleven and it and what you did -- for -- about it -- I would look accurate to question Mary what art art is. Manny okay. If you need any street in part I'll say Manny but -- in and day out on a consistent basis Jim writes you're right Jim writes. -- through the eighties like no other and he was mr. consistency. What mr. strawberry on Wall Street when he was -- he was amazing but he wasn't as consistent as Jim Martin's. Well if you believe that consistency is judged by numbers over a period of time you're wrong on that went through because many of fourteen points higher over his career than rice. You know -- You can build up an average street -- you go twenty to 22. And -- all -- -- nothing when -- -- Right what consisting principally consist then. So I'm I'm there I'm Manny was streaky attack when he was -- there was nobody -- but outside when he was -- he had big cold spot I didn't you write that many of those. All right thanks for the cholera and not give rocking horse so Ireland and I just. Can't not today because they disagree with some of those points are just not give remorse -- -- earned -- go to Michael employment Michael you -- horse for the preakness. All all all right OK I that's good. What's on your mind you seeing. I have not haven't followed him on Twitter following NYNEX -- -- Lofgren on Twitter know who where was Sweden. This past week. Yeah he's he's not coming back to the states until August or September oh yeah he's in Europe right now. There -- all right. You do out of fashion that I commend you I commend you lie at best friend that's the part of -- slows a bit and he would. It would follow them on and on -- -- some time -- I'm on the Bruce fanatic which aren't in my in my. I wanna talk about first of -- correct Steve from all wherever it was thirty audible forties sexual problems not 33. That either tied or one are put the Red Sox ahead rice is nineteen -- here. Yes. My opinion butch is that prices have any eight. In my lifetime was the best offensive season. By an American week. -- My lifetime. Miguel Cabrera was pretty good last year. When it was excellent and I'm not going to look -- -- I. I think that part of that there might be streak of all workers in the mirror but I pride myself on not being well -- But when you look at. -- sports export -- either tying the score. When you look at the fifteen triples. Which forty years since an America we are at or under all. Right now and -- you -- -- name when you are when you argue when you look at the facts. That the guy he beat out for MVP although he was a pitcher and that's all different argument but was 25 and three. We've nineteen complete games in nine shot notes and any Harry under tool in the American League east earn 78. I mean that's our job great season while. That's at least the next point here is that what you look like from eight to best. Most dominant pitching seasons. In my lifetime. Where kitrey 78 page Germany in 86 Pedro -- nine. I think I'm actually. Striking out -- mariners and don't want war. Oh my goodness you're wrong about my by the way Michael you're wrong about that would look up pages numbers and 99. I bet -- they're better than clemency he said. Op but it wasn't quite foreign war that he didn't strike out twenty people leave -- game. I'll do those numbers in the break -- -- of 99 was season for the. It was tremendous I would argue 98992000. Better than any three of clemens' best year. Understand your point about in your lifetime seven DA -- -- And 86 Clemens I'll give you that but 99 Pedro was right there with -- My argument the ultimate -- look at all rights figure into all those years be he wins yeah these bird. In in 86. And you -- -- are what I'm report Jim Rice 1978. Brady and -- and office 2007. Mom I might do that. Except that Tom Brady and Randy Moss are the gold standard. -- broke Jerry Rice record with 23 touchdowns. And Brady broke. -- -- Peyton Manning the pain management Peyton Manning's at the time in many broke Marino's so that's the gold standard -- season is not the gold standard. But if you wanna put up there in local Boston sports history I guess you can easily do that. If you just tuning in and you drive around setters in what now it's -- Khamenei vs rice this was a brushfire again. It just it's one of those things somebody dropped cigarette and did we haven't got rain in awhile. And now law local fire department to pissed at us because we started this fire. Armor could given Michael horse but I didn't let's go to Mike in that east long -- another Mike Mike how real. You wanna horse. Sure I would Stewart can't get there. -- have here. Nine horses in the preakness. And you are going to get. -- -- Second pole position written by Kevin -- 81. He is the fourth favorite in the race. Third favorite XQ fourth favored behind orbit. -- might -- behind departing. You have gold and sent to school since that Rick Pitino sports. I think that's Rick Pitino or. Yes and he gonna blue silks on today with -- silver sleaze. And 821 and you get Kevin Krieger aboard Mike from -- long -- gonna keep track it is you have Goldman's announcement. Which if I could I get to which started about that right vs. Navy chair and I just went out and put up 63 years old. -- orders integrates well I wouldn't senior white sport news terms -- -- is here and 67 and he had more clutch it's been an economic and it will remember. And unfortunately when we got to sit that they didn't have much of it came very young slogan it particularly Guerrero. Who don't have it now lineup with a pretty well. Well what's interesting which -- about the rice yeah as comparison. There's a couple of things one you remember in 66 the Red Sox couldn't have been worse and they came out of nowhere with the impossible dream here. And 67 if you remember the Red Sox and 74. While they weren't great rice in the wind came up as two rookies and all of a sudden or right so that there's one other similarities the other. Debate -- rice and yeah as. Is interesting because yes did it of course for 23 years. But rice I believe I forgot I think I saw the steps sometime that if you take a ten year period rice BT has over ten -- -- An -- and it's it's -- right I don't like -- And I always disliked interiors because that is being anywhere mirrors. Dogged in the outfield arm around the bases as it lies. I watched the home run derby contest may eighteenth 75 -- rights. Are sinners. Be able windshield. Right hit. While after all also -- aren't there that would Atlanta out of any ballpark. Into the Majorly. Big Winfield just kept it and pop pops up when it's discrete. I played here I think you're right we never really helped by federal way. I'm I don't know for sure -- -- there any words or not but you're right here all out of every ball art than he ever played in. And it what you -- right and I don't like Manny Ramirez I think just a regular pure hitter for the matter and they played. I really believe -- were slightly better. Interesting I'm looking at right now of Jim rice's 400 in. In. Whereas it's give me 382. Career home runs a year before he hit some. He hit 200 made -- Fenway. Which means that he hit. A hundred in 74. On the road. Pretty close. And the only change I don't play instantly there are certainly steps are considerably higher than when they're on the road at what took you to right right. It's a good car might make some good morning reading greater bulk of them but -- it's very -- to compare it would era. I thanks for the call Mike in our good luck with gold and cents in the preakness -- different. Palm. Are his situation we're gonna refine the question would take a break right now gonna give out are the five preakness horses leave the three for you and -- the sauce man. Orbits the one everybody wants to get we get four people on the line wanna talk about this. Mania -- refine the question the techsters question was a good change and -- a -- fine. -- -- -- The techsters question was who's a better hitter in their prime. Refining it means I'm gonna get a more pointed questions for. Who do you want up. With the game on the line. There's clearly this is one and one day and every regard -- one a and one B. Right handed hitters American League Red Sox players clutch hitters by the way have the clutch stats and not just summarize it for you. Many was a better clutch hitter over a longer period of time than rice. But it's close what's similar about it without boring you with the numbers and the numbers are very similar. From late and close two outs runners in scoring position high games put your team had things like that what's interest being with the two of them. Is that there averages are almost identical to their career averages. In other words meanings are like 310312314. And a lot of those clutch situations. To seventy. For example and in one of them. Rice deserve to -- eighty to 95 to 98 race was -- 298 hitters so they didn't change and clutch situations meaning that many more playoff games. On the top of the list of home runs in playoff history because of all the games they played. Racially -- eighteen playoff. So he at 333 in the World Series so. I want to know. If your life depended on that type -- question. If you needed to get the run in despite the clutch stats. Who's that guy you -- up rice -- -- and why but that's for refined question quick break we're back with more WE -- -- Saturday. And you're moving about Purdue off to get involved which hopes. It. It was definitely confidence. You know bush units we're creating something that's pretty good scoring chances even though after the first sort of we don't get involved but. Probably deserved it just have a scoring because you get to keep -- momentum with your side and I think they did that it. Two us opens. Davis right she's the bruins' leading point getter and scorer in the post season. Talking about game 132. Overtime win for the Boston Bruins. Game two tomorrow night that they got tomorrow afternoon maddening three clock will be here tomorrow night 8 o'clock to enjoy alum myself Craig saw which we believe Iran. Bob Sweeney is gonna join us. A former Boston Bruin and ides of Boston roots foundation for Bieber and post game from eight to 1130 tomorrow night on sports Sunday night -- a -- to Phyllis Zito. Hoping to get Phyllis Zito tomorrow night I -- I spoke speaking of Bruins Rangers. As -- played for the Blackhawks Bruins and Rangers. A great stories left to hear his impressions on this series hopeful about spoke tomorrow night hopefully you'll join us tomorrow night for -- to 1130. -- to -- -- -- Bruins Dexter runnerup finish to question butchery. Which defenseman. Young defenseman. -- crew met -- -- Doug Hamilton. Loses ice time when Seidenberg. Or read and come back by the way. The update is John socks he told you. Us -- probably gonna be out. Quote say he's not expected to play. Don't think that's smokescreen maybe it is Seidenberg skated on his own before practice that -- parents did not -- he's got a foot injury he's out for tomorrow. Seidenberg who knows from what they're saying he's out. And read and I did participate in practice. They were little vague about that he did participate in some practice today's game time. Decision but Matt park house completes 27 minutes in game one but he probably 21 recruit scored a goal in his seventeen minutes who does. -- time if Wade Redden plays -- mean this is the playoffs and his seven game series. Stop pounding his chest like he did when he won game one against the Maple Leafs series is not can be sweet is it. Is it. Pronouncements the flyers in four games com so those down I would say in order of going down it's -- crew might affect distorted the goal. And in my mind. It's part -- keel over Hamilton in most people's minds it's probably the other way around. Because Hamilton is I think. But from a fan part of me wants to see more of Hamilton I think Hamilton can do more I think the hockey guys. All friends. They think did the Hamilton might be more prone to mistakes that Rick they could see Rick Nash gaining around Hamilton. Before in the times he's on the ice without Chara before they see him skating around -- part cut that part cows. I don't know which -- the question which defenseman young defenseman should lose time. At the expense of red or at their expense of Britain Seidenberg come back and back to the many rice question. I've refine the question of game on the line your life on the line who he wanted -- has come -- They're two of the greatest hitters in Red Sox history their two degrees right handed hitters and Red Sox history -- is butch yeah it was a big Jim Rice stand. But you really think 314 into nine Peter -- over a career. Many was the greatest right handed hitter. In -- Sox uniform. It's really not that close to numbers of your comparison not that close racing 86 of course for another man I don't think so. Well this couple holes -- that one is it's 312 over 29 DH but I do understand your point. And it is not that close that it's more than ten points indifference over a career so -- was a better hitter. Okay mini was the greatest rating here in a Sox uniform it's really not that close will know it is close and by the way these three guys that aren't -- Okay over a ten year period if you -- Manny. Jim Rice in Jimmie Foxx. For those of us weren't allowed to watch you go look at the numbers and by the way if you wanna do over a five year period Nomar is in that argument to. Com. As far as rice and 86 of course but other -- I don't think so no. Rice dominated over a ten year period and the fact that he's in the hall of fame even though took a long time. Is proof of that and by the way there were several text as early on says how long do you think you'll take -- to get in the hall of fame. I don't committee gets involved. I think that the baseball writers need some closure. On guys like bonds and Clemens and others before me anything it's a -- for the hall of fame despite the he has hall of fame numbers. So. There's a bunch of stuff that are in let's go to John. On the -- hi John. What's up -- deal. -- You liken this to -- We'll just for the thumbs up on that. We -- gonna reach into our hat here for you John has a pre starts a little bit later on to -- you got here for CAD it's a bugle. -- -- It's seen it was gonna come out of that for you. John from Cape Cod where you on the cape John. And (%expletive) from monster ball you have. Title town five trained by. He's owned by Paul -- the former Green Bay packer. So you league look for the green and gold obviously the Packers colors he's come -- from the three position he's at 31 shot though. So on constable that's who you have you'll be room for him. All right well I had a cup couple comments here. -- when McCain line rate. All right peace is loaded up at -- These guys got when he won grand. All right I agree with you I think that the numbers aren't even close to answer the question about the game on the line. Com many played in way more playoff games many had more grand slams you're right actual cup races gland slams -- a look up the numbers when they hit with -- bases loaded. It's hard to compare because many had more. Clutch opportunities. Then rice did because of the wave that the Red Sox contended when rice was here there were always in contention -- -- The thing about not taken up with enterprise that and -- he's -- -- -- monster. By. Mean workers -- people are there recently you know it's what the red. -- -- -- race -- all stars in Manny had twelve. -- bases loaded let me look. Tide team one run into an art doesn't know hold on -- a look at that god keep socket. And I know -- com. Also had a season -- what got a 166. RBIs 160 size. Yeah I mean you're talking -- 18100. RBIs -- -- probably. All right sent 14104. Less years. So you know. I don't look. I understand but again this is like Diaz rice argument if you -- don't compare numbers. And amok and take your time -- do has to do it. In a Red Sox uniform endured over the most and dominant years in many still gonna win -- he still gonna come ahead of rice but it's not going to be like it's not arguable. That's my point it. Mean this really isn't afraid it wants to say he'd take many up in the clutch for anybody that wants to say that many easy better hitter than Jim Rice. For anybody that wants to say that many was better and is trying to Jim Rice. That's good -- it your all. The -- you're getting your probably right in all those three things but I'm still debate in my mind living through both -- who I want up with the game on the line. I'm still trying to come up how qualified he answer. Because Jim Rice was news to me is clutches you get mean I watched him. Hey guys you know rice is coming up and I watched pitchers points over in the on deck circle wants -- DM rice is common. All data that it didn't tell me. That ultimately. If you look at averages higher than what then bill what you said -- every -- -- -- attack like -- -- -- hold -- -- -- -- double -- -- so Jim Rice with the bases load in his career. 330. Women hold on that's not right. Jim Rice the bases loaded and his Korea thirteen grand slams 122. RBIs. Average -- adding. Batting average. Two triples twelve doubles. 85 hits were batting -- PA here it is 333. With the bases loaded. And Manny Ramirez. Had the bases loaded. In his career. Toronto. 37 before. When he career grand slams a 140 RBIs this is regular season he might add some grand slams in the post season to. -- again many better. Like you know it's close there could call John appreciate. By the way summit called up before. Was -- Mike from Plymouth. And said in his lifetime ragged tree in 78 Roger Clemens and 86 for the most dominant. Pitching performances in the American League and I brought up Pedro in 99. It's -- and I looked these up and look at these numbers. Ron give -- in 1978. Was 25 and three Roger Clemens in 198620. Foreign four. Pedro Martinez in 1999 was 23 and four. It went 232425. Games you drew one OK. So this ER race in these most how many years. You dream one point 74. Clemens 2.4 eight Pedro 2.0 seven they all -- delete -- a year kindred dominated one point 74. Innings pitched. 273. -- drink. 254. For -- 213. Only 213 innings for page 199. None of them led the league with that I want I didn't look it up I'll look it up a real -- more than 273 innings in 1978 but somebody did. Strikeouts. 248. Forgive -- in 1978. 238. For Clemens in 1986313. -- joined 99. Pedro led the league. None of them did it walks. 72 forgive jury 67. For Clemens 37. For Pedro. So -- handing out honors in 1999. Pedro Martinez. In twelve -- thirteen inning looks. Struck out three and thirteen guys and walked 370. Lead the league released walks -- most strikeouts. He struck out thirteen point two batters per game per nine innings. And his. His. Eight point 46 was. Think that was a strike out ratio is whip was -- point 923 all of amid -- under nine. Pedro had five complete games in one shot out but again this is 99. Clemens had ten complete games in 86 and one shut out -- at sixteen complete games. And nine -- that's more of an heiress 70s80s and -- of what they did mean Pedro pitched this in the seventies he would they had sixteen complete games that would left demand. So again. My point to Michael in Plymouth was you can't talk about give dreams have -- Clemens and 86 and not mention the age of 1990s and you just can't do. You need deported him. Need to break right here 540. One more -- house go to Doug and cars next hi Doug are you were. Watch out here. I did got to say you're you're not a guy you know we can -- -- -- right is that won't record is you know. You're. It. -- from a team I was wondering where you're going that was waiting for the big -- I don't know that it would. Do not comply and so I rocky. All up all right that I'd go all in to. -- wrong. You you at that the better he called on it that's OK you know what Mitt. Next time. -- What -- -- wars just sort it out pat. -- well dug my style my style is more let him hang himself. -- You -- well I I think you -- -- I wanted to call and couldn't get your question how you -- -- -- -- important any anywhere I. I know they are trying to wait it. Out right now. We're not a slip through both I mean I had to meet there's no wrong answer in this one. -- -- game on the line your life on the line one at bat I mean whoever you wanna do it it it's all the same question who would you rather have up. Would you rather have up in that situation rice -- any. -- that which he. You want out because it could you walk out. No -- could be two -- you don't know the situation -- you want media. Heard Shaq got back drop back guy and a way to do not only made big plays would give people outdoors. -- -- But hold it paving guy. Go watch period could on the that -- every single I'd -- that. Why would say this about Manning and again. Again all of these don't mean that the other guy couldn't do this is rice could hit the hitters pitched too but I'll agree with you would disappoint on Manny. When it came to that'd in the game and Manny was coming up. Can't -- shared a lot of these similarities. Everybody in the ballpark knew it was coming up whether it was homer on the road. The pitcher the pitcher was pitching differently because he was on deck when he did come up. He was gonna Wear that guy out if he didn't have to -- it he did that hit hitters pitch I mean the pitcher's pitch. He was gonna hit it if that if Mariano Rivera was gonna throw that -- Many was gonna drive to right center field you know right. I wouldn't say what go to get people wars they've been numbers but it just at all the -- -- Is it true. That any grand slams like that YouTube you as awkward. My -- you don't mean to make my. I mean -- you get the horse anyway because I like your style my friend so let's go and that. Let's see we got here you look at for the -- to begin with the letter oh Morgan is one to wind it is it is. Rocks. -- And you have the number six -- with the black and gold. Silk spike Calumet -- trained by. Who who Gary Stevens who was in the movie. What was the sea biscuit. If you remember he's fifteen to one ox -- he did race in the derby so you my friend -- in a car you have box. Which yup -- report a little little changed on the day. On the race if -- I extra period. -- -- -- All right Doug -- appreciate the call our thanks to a we got to take a break by the way FCC listening this is for recreational purposes only Jason to not wearing. The winner will get their name called already went to enjoy Al. A WEEI employee one last time and that goes against all the rules of any contest we're back with more on a Saturday -- me. Yeah. Girls wars and trying to and triple. It's. Getting an opportunity to go to the free every shift. -- -- And I'll kill lots of just didn't keep you going it. Bruins defenseman Doug Hamilton played 21 minutes in game line to. Again Andrew Ference -- Seidenberg and we'd read out. Read -- game time decision tomorrow at 3 o'clock Seidenberg according to crude not expected. To play that report said publicly I don't know what to read that and parents with a foot injury did not skated practice finish probably you know. I'm Matt part cow -- -- recruit and Doug Hamilton of the guys who've taken their place. On me if I asked question our -- -- question to be accurate. If it's a number ever. Regret and come back who which one of the young defenseman. Loses ice time. To me. It wouldn't we Doug Hamilton he'd be the last one -- -- And the and the question is an interest in one and by the way at this time in eleven during the cup run we were asking -- similar question similar. Now not identical but similar if you remember. About Tyler -- How are sick and they get there and it wasn't -- and asked a lot. Because they did go seven games it's Canadians and then they cakewalk through the flyers in four games. But sit -- was getting a shift gear shift here the rookie treatment. The sort how. Pat burns handled Joseph for early on which a lot of people criticized. It blowouts. But then when the Bruins lost game one to Tampa. At home. -- got a regular shift it was only because Nathan Horton. All clocked remember. -- scored two goals. -- 165 in overtime to set up another goal. All bets were off after the trip my Doug Hilton similarly is -- -- position and is getting a chance to play mainly because of balances out. So do you keep treated with kid gloves. When he -- it now. He's clearly the one of the most talented of the three clearly the one who -- yet to take guests that when their careers -- all. Is gonna have the better NHL career although no disrespect. To bark -- and I don't know that much about -- but Parker looks like his solid play and that's an ultimate compliment to a defenseman. But again the rookie debate you take what he's up did you put part do you put -- him right. He would make it so not Seidenberg over Doug but if it's 50% of cite -- 50% of red are a big 150% of parents. You put a completely healthy Hamilton and good. Debate. Read back to the calls before we do attacks to brought up pay what -- -- -- -- great pitching seasons and by the way you wanna do this I didn't do that I did great pitching seasons in. Michael from plummets lifetime. And he said 78. For. Injury and 86 requirements and I immediately thought you gotta put 99 -- page and as somebody said we put Bob Gibson and 68. So here's it's pitched in about that a laborious the numbers. -- since season in 1960 which by the waves 32 years it'll. 22 -- 91 point 12304. Innings pitched 268 strikeouts. The eight complete games thirteen shot out. And it whip if you're into -- stats of under eight under point eight -- and pitched it about that. He's 22 when nine did not lead the league he's 28 complete games -- league. -- -- -- His thirteen shots led the league is 268 strikeouts Woodley and as one point 12 ER eight led the league. What is 22 wins his 304 innings pitched and just when he complete games did not lead the league part of at a different time based -- Billick. Hello bill. -- you don't -- cook -- One time. -- can quote quite a debate on right sin and term. Man and admit. We test and repeat these nuts that think. It's a good question it's a good question it's part of the argument -- that you can't I mean. Well no I'll give you the answer they didn't test in baseball during Jim Rice is era they did during nannies there and Manny got caught. Twice. For -- So. Was rice doing anything -- the players of that generation doing anything we don't know because they never tested. Yeah and now it's -- and I hope it would do anything back then. -- while they were doing stuff all. I mean they were doing green is they were taken shake stalked any of the players -- -- they were doing stuff but. The point is if you wanna bring up PDs there's no doubt about it it's a strike against Manny. And for rice because many tested positive twice in rice was never accused. Of any of that -- You're right. And out that it got -- can snap a patent and that it checks went. While we you know we all remember that and that's the other thing their legendary stories about both of them I mean. Many dragon attire around at Washington Heights when he was a kid running up hills and he could always -- a big hit like 750. Who -- high school careers -- and -- I mean you know they were -- rewrite it for those of us old enough to remember Jim Rice checked swing and broken bat. Make amazing. It's of 400 total bases. Right up more than 202. And so I don't know reported total basis -- I don't know I'd have to look that up I do remember. And bill obviously you saw rice I think what was compare -- didn't go to their swings rice and meaning seem effortless. -- of the ball just. I mean rice his swing was so compact. So compact do we just like see the ball. And it's like a golfer that takes no backswing and just all we -- Sherry and I'm going -- to -- it in front of them might that they were the best two left to right swings. I have ever seen in my right back to back I mean it's such isn't ready yet believe. Yeah but boy what a combination they -- for a few years there watching this Bruins series -- I'm watching our little -- -- what do what do you think about it and general about a rookie situation in other words -- you're on the second round of the Stanley Cup Playoffs. The etiquette like Doug Hamilton by all accounts by hockey experts he could be really good player in the -- or at least he's gonna have a good career. But at this age you treat him with kid gloves are a year you know Terry Glenn in 96 he put him up there because he's talented enough for not wearing -- About the mistakes he might make or you put more of veteran in there with more experience of the games mean it's a much. It's a veteran can play you got to play directorate I mean easy. That experience. -- just can't you can't under. What what -- the veteran is only 75% healthy and Doug he's completely. Is that a factor. There are goat or I I respect your opinion because the interesting thing is especially in hockey. 75%. They're all probably 75 percentage point hockey players right. You're right right I'm a -- he's in football baseball bat whatever it is they're 35 collapse right right. So unless it's 5050. I got to go to veteran that's been 5050 in out. They didn't get to this point because they Wear skirts that they got to this point because they Barack keep ways. -- that's played most of the year up with the big boys. You know. Are you gotta you gotta play. -- we got to take a break but you've definitely earned it. The bugle you've definitely earned that you definitely at a horse in the race so -- a car we've -- delusional now. I'd go from grove one organ or region that. He got the four horse wearing the yellow silks his name is. -- Are written by Brian Hernandez trained by Albert stall he's six to one favorite he's the third favorite in the race departing the force of the yellow silks all right bill. They go good luck I'd built for growth when they don't raise the finals once owned by. Good friend response hometown -- Not -- break we're back with another half hour to go we've got remorse is to give you -- -- pick ours I'm what Stearns this disease.

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