Mar 26, 2013|
John Ziegler spoke to Dennis and Callahan about his 3-plus hour conversation with Jerry Sandusky and came away feeling kind of bad for the guy.
Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.
John ziglar is a former John -- and turn -- channel seven he's a former radio talk show host and currently a documentarian who's spent on three separate occasions. A half hours with Jerry sandusky. At the up Pennsylvania State correctional institute in ways burg Pennsylvania my friend John's river joins us on the AT&T hotline. AT&T forgy LTE the justice -- long time no talk what you're was 1986. It was actually 1988. 88 that was the year where the US open was at Brookline all the Red Sox won like one he comes straight games to make the play out so -- but some of my life and turning for you guys. And my father still live in Boston so this is not a mystic you're. Well as my father would say you'd Doug good -- you'd done good how are. I'm a little exhausted especially after -- knock down drag -- the piers Morgan on CNN last. Yes yes yes I did -- did pierce see things your way John. He's a guy convinced him and where we're actually going to black justice and you are that's -- the candidate now I'm. Did I did not speak it during the commercial break or after the official results are subtle but they'll be back any time. The end of the documentary putting together is the framing of Joseph Paterno I wanna get into exactly what the context of that means -- as an overview to kick this thing off John. You say that Jerry sandusky in your route three separate occasions for a total of more than three and a half hours in Williamsburg Pennsylvania came across as incredibly sincere and remarkably un polished. I didn't know what to like him and for the most part largely because of his rather obvious Doris narcissism and I didn't however much to my surprise. I didn't come away aiding him either. That's a large limb to crawl out on and having its sought out from underneath -- John. Well probably still put on my part tonight I have this pathological need actually -- truthful and honest and I'm dispute. You know quartet that's one paragraph out of probably -- very -- he sit at our website claiming Paterno dot com. Be clear just about is pat while how to make sure there -- understand that I believe that. I do think it so -- Caricatures of the nature of his brother believe that the media has created is. Actually detrimental to the cause of combating child sex abuse explain I don't I could I don't believe it. I don't believe that most -- of files are like that I don't believe Jerry was like that I think he's in the good guy. Pillar of the community category which is much more difficult to disarm in the large part of the reason why Penn State was full. Well Archie or our most Metafiles at least that kind of Metafile charming and don't you think -- just charmed you John. What limit all the uncertainty -- -- on the deet tails here I -- like this very very clear I always concerned about what Jerry about it you can tell me. About the nature of the rest of this story with very few exceptions to that one exception being what happened. With regard -- Q what was the Mike McQueary episode which we get the great veto it. I'm much more -- instance you don't look at sports guys apparently about it -- little tidbit. I've concluded. After -- worried about security about. That it would -- -- jets did not lock their last three games in the 2000 season. There would be no Penn State scandal. And whatnot what I mean by the system that nobody thought this whole thing is that it outgrow doesn't decide at the last second he was coaching the -- to that time. That because they -- the three gave it to play out there aren't enough good about that I have on the bottom line to be the head football coach at Virginia. In December of 2000 and totally convinced that -- corroborating evidence for that but I figured I'd like Brothers expensively. And apparently during his last interview that it could get caught -- in the room how well all. As their leader in either that the -- mater Virginia he was on the search committee for that job. And -- and -- I think out of that Jack I want the job all the sudden a guy comes back and has called and said that he. He's done that he's wondered what backlog and extend -- welcome -- good job. Five weeks later is the -- episode. So does that mean that's the one of the many many bizarre little tidbit. And I'm able to pick up in half -- that is -- part of -- that I have been part of -- previously. -- I'm focused -- trying to figure -- okay. Now the that was great about the -- media that Penn State Joseph Paterno knew that they probable that they covered it up with that make any sense -- practically every single step it doesn't. Bull Joseph Paterno didn't know he admitted he knew correct Joseph Paterno. Out yet. But what what did he actually said he never heard of sex and a man before but it was something sexual. But that that mcqueary reported. And what two days later he went to. -- -- But here's the problem in -- -- exactly right although his testimony is far more ambiguous and has been. Reported yet America -- thought he's eighty or almost 85. -- was not too old to coach in division one football program. What book I am I thought -- look back at Penn State no connection the paternal family. And I was one who believed for years Joseph Paterno should have retired and that look at and very badly I was outspoken about that so like that but. That's not a lot gondola that I'm not at Joseph Paterno. As recommended by any stretch -- match. How old how old was he John when mcqueary went to his house. I would have been 74 years nobody would hear that thing now. People are misunderstanding what the most important conversation in this entire situation what aquarium of the tunnel was important but -- target exactly the right thing. And he told disappeared. And up in the longer working for him at that time. Obviously to open part out Lebanese side -- going to be looked that was a greater magnitude that we did exactly the right into the economic so it would actually -- -- athletic director. Why -- this -- you get a table was it's all about we have this report. If you do something inappropriate with a -- a shower or not look my integration and I'd be able to glean from the Kennedy was critical because I have. The actual statement by the brilliant rush -- many ironically on the day at all I was fired. At 824. Year old married sergeant in memory walk pro actively -- forward. Where -- -- -- we have camp that say look. On the measure our aquarius -- nothing happened. I don't know what I believe occurred was because they thought he knew -- The couple it was -- back about whether because nothing actually did happen that night or simply because of the nature of his relationship with the -- and by the way it was not ten years old but he was -- site its fourteenth day. I had the identity of that board and I am considering repealing it because. He revealed himself. In letters to the editor that he wrote earlier that year defending series and -- he had his own name a Republican newspapers so I believe he no longer has the right -- anonymity although I'm. In considering -- depending on whether or not I can speak to -- but find out why he does not want his name revealed the reality here is there is great ambiguity as to what happened. After mcqueary and Paterno talk and that's the beauty and it's also important point -- are both the mcqueary. Month later said are you okay it would volatile and on the record I'm Mike McQueary and mcqueary said yes. And the aquarium -- playing into the food and the golf tournament in the following years. And conduct himself development. It was the -- would fly up until 2010. Without the elaborate in the. Well would subsequently got called him about he didn't know where it was when it -- that an incredibly important fact that what it showed what. Query only realize what he thought he saw. After prosecutor Jayne demands that you argue he saw something we think about the pop up while we have other victims can help us out here. That's what his story changed and got augmented by prosecutors would that -- for a witness separate three year grand jury investigation. We're -- would documentarian John Ziegler whose piece is called a friend of Joseph paternal here's what does that add up for me John. -- he goes paternal goes to his so called bosses everybody who's ever had anything to to a Penn State knows that Joseph Paterno is the boss and everybody -- athletic director. Absolutely everybody and we're to believe that after decades and decades of Joseph Paterno saying. I'll take care of that when it comes to an academic -- -- scandal when it comes to a kid getting in trouble with the law when it comes to anything to do with the football team Joseph Paterno somehow -- that somehow go to the academic advisors it's all these things mixed in in this particular situation which without question. Is the most serious thing in the entire. Tenure of Joseph Paterno he defers to somebody else says I don't wanna deal with that you. Well that's. I understand and believe me I guess like people have that reaction but when you dig into the -- felt -- not quite so simple because when you're dealing. We looked at a climb at the end of the things this and and that allegation that it. Not nearly as an ambiguous as we're led to believe now it would now mcqueary says now it will mcqueary said. In 2001 that matters remember -- believing get the day of the month of the year correct here right. -- that -- that -- huge red flag instead it was market 2000 Q it would actually February 2001 and you know in that state it was carried -- So I'm not quite so are we -- as dramatic as as what we can we now believed to be in hindsight knowing what Jerry sandusky is public -- That in that situation what a lot on is very clear if you must -- you must. Continue with the Chinese diplomat because if you do not. And everything you're gonna break down you have to worry about the anonymity -- up that shot out that the warning about protecting the potentially innocent. Person who's being investigated because. As we all know a false claim the big job electric Carrie -- and quotable Spain but I want to possibly over -- -- by the way is why it was illegal. -- illegal or jump out to be in the loop of 1998 investigation what Jerry that he was not charged so I don't believe. Paterno had any knowledge of the 99. You don't really think that John Joseph Paterno. That had no knowledge nothing happens on that campus to do with the football is that Joseph Paterno a guy it would -- Wear them for what 35 years of being investigated and and this guy -- return of the king of state college. Knew nothing new nothing. It was not a -- -- about a guy. Think about why it's illegal. For your box. And know that you are being investigated. Today. Potential tax crime with a minor. That'd been incredibly important law. An -- absolutely in my opinion. Not one shred of evidence at the double time I was kept in the loop or what was actually happening there and the most bizarre update when talking to -- about the by they way it's clear you've got into tomorrow -- did want land it's -- they needed each other. -- John. I hated -- kept them honest after thirty years. Yelled as he was activity as a coach and certainly there is a question about that means many people thought it was one of about the -- -- over the last year he would be difficult to be here. So -- your reality is the talk it's been. I was stunned even in jail and thought he after having single handedly brought down Joseph Paterno was entire legacy still as. And regrettable that they implement high. What are -- amazing but he also made it very clear that the tunnel ever had any information about any of that mind. By the argued investigation was no big deal -- -- to -- bizarre a bizarre statement from and out he. Does that make any sense if you're Joseph Paterno that -- comes to you you go to your superiors and then you never checked back and find out what's going on after that. In. Fact that you wanted to mcqueary had. Mike are you open without it would -- Probably query with the with the powers that be to say so where does as things stand with with -- dust. I mean if you know how Joseph paternal and I'm sure you do operates at Penn state university this isn't something you say here or we don't dissing your lap I'm gonna go away and never inquire about this again we anybody forget we even if -- not Joseph Paterno even if you don't have the power the -- the -- eternal rest. Anybody in that situation would go back a day week a month later and say where we stand on the -- ASCII thing. Good thing two things first of all time we don't know because we haven't heard from Curley -- and they got indicted yet one of the major problems. We're quiet on Persian turnovers is guilty allegations against Jerry -- thought he would probably neighbor -- 2000 walk out to mcqueary episodes. All the way up to about 2005 or six when they had nothing to do what Penn State it would exempt from high school and ended up beat the number one who's battled an errant picture now. It does so to a degree the notion that somehow. Given that he's behavior did not change or or that nothing happened to him is bought. That does not file was all about the episode and it won't let -- wives will become number two wide. And and -- he was so I'll go to the second -- Kerry indicated that. At -- Alabama like that yeah -- This kid did because it was so well not all of -- number till they can't put zoned lot react yeah. Mean I don't know for sure who would you believe it gives statement might be nothing happened that particular night. But the reality is the thought OK we know this kid there -- -- the worry about here this bag that looked like the -- John -- framing Joseph Paterno. Accept it -- I'm glad he had that because our web site planning Paterno about probably conceded that documentary problem free we don't put any advertising it's not commercial venture backed megabits per minute but cleared going to be destroyed by that. All -- about trying to figure out what the alternative in this matter because -- the terabyte which was just let's find out what happened don't want to do that I'm stupid enough to try. And a little pale I realized that I mean it's very clear that the last couple days later immediately react -- -- I'm gonna fail I'd get it I understand. I gave it my best. Although -- Quad -- quit his dying wish this to find out the truth. You securities. You didn't see you didn't see what you'd see him say that they were just. I I -- and if you would -- -- with with let's Sally Jenkins he lied it that would let his. They reported that it's been widely reported that was. If you I'll -- -- is dying wish but in his last days he said. Very very clearly that he just wanted people to find out what the truth here wasn't part of -- word on our web sites we mean that. Figuratively not literally this is not a conspiracy. This is everybody working in our own perceived self interest. In a way that ended up. Essentially effectively slamming Joseph Paterno about the web site framing Paterno back. -- does it go before let's go give us some context of of Jerry sandusky is -- demeanor his personality. His mindset and his environment right now is mr. Canada relatively short period of time. Well for those laid -- and understandably so you should -- that it is not possible for him to be punished anymore -- he that he is at least at least under our current legal system. He's going through hell. He cried during good portions of the interview I was very tough on him. I believe I got into acknowledged criminal behavior he never acknowledged before I would weirdly are I think you understand it actually criminal behavior. He does maintain what he thinks it is an offense. And what I take out across and here he saw one polished on. It's it's really impossible -- how that the guy that gets away with a long butcher of the spot I don't like a bit about what got this question like that. I mean. I I thought I'd found. I do not believe. -- we understand the full troupe of its crimes I think we've created a caricature of it. And I think that part of that happened because of the rush to judgment against Joseph Paterno -- Penn State in the media hysteria that was created surrounding this. Story do you think the sentence that was handed down the life that he is living is fair and just punishment for what it is you believe he did. Yeah I mean if if what if he's. And if he's actually guilty of the crime he was convicted for. And an absolutely. I think you got to getting worse treatment and he would normally because of the nature of the crimes and his celebrity and they put on suicide watch several part because I was not suicidal he gets one visit -- a week. He gets one phone call a week it's one hour of fitness a week I mean it's a hellish experience have you he -- -- and understandably so. You should not be concerned that it -- partisan -- the F. So -- -- you admit you felt bad form. As a human being out of it would be hard not to because look. It's -- -- -- -- and we know about him it is true. You know there aren't those who would argue that it's more of an element -- is. Something like somebody decides to tell somebody. That doesn't make it right at me should be out and and Fareed but I do think dated. You know it's far I don't believe that Jerry thing he ever -- these kids I really don't I don't think he thinks he -- these kids. Any would constantly talking about I'm not that monster that they made me out to be I'm not the monster or not this monster which is an interesting. You know description -- if you think estimate what I think he's actually doing it acknowledging. Highly inappropriate and in criminal behavior but also denying some of the most -- horrendous act. -- -- but would you agree that's not unusual had a files they look at themselves as mentors and people who are helping I tell people already. John I I doubt that I am I've been negligent commentators such crimes expert from the Paterno report. Almost everyday for the past month before and after the interview -- what they ask questions based on what he wanted to ask him about it I get compliant victimization I'd get. I get the way to have filed work I understand all that I'm being I'm giving a very honest human reactions. Look I took very seriously and historically important interview with with a guy at the center of the biggest allegedly biggest scandal mr. -- -- Our RV Paterno is Joseph and Jay Paterno Scott Paterno got and these the on your side on this helping you -- -- Not a doubt at all mean -- to completely throw me under the bus Scott Paterno I believe is actually more possible for the demise of his father's legacy than just about anybody other than Jerry and husky. And stop the turnover is afraid of me and that's just the reality already knows that I only care about the truth here and and that I know how he screwed up. And ambulance so he he he got -- -- rush to judgment on what I was doing here. Which are proud to be particularly those markets during the rush to judgment that -- happened to his father and the fact that I said I've been in touch with -- sex crimes expert every single part of this entire process. He has documentarian John -- the documentary is called the frame of Joseph Paterno but you can check it out at -- paternal dot com where you can check out John's website. John Ziegler dot com John great catch up with you I don't even working your ass off on this and -- -- to talk to get after all the Asia is -- at work and partner John Dennis and Callahan on the AT&T hotline AT&T four GL TEZ that nuts when he worked snowed on on an oh it was he learned the art at the -- and -- -- the past there.