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February 8th Hot Stove Show

Feb 8, 2013|

Kirk and Alex are holding down the show this week, they talk with Rob Bradford who is already in Fort Myers, they talk about some of Jon Lester's comments to Rob and talk with ESPN's Keith Law about the Red Sox prospects.

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-- still showed 937 WEI the penultimate episode right now that's right word is. Well ultimately there and the ultimate ultimate penalty minutes and also yes I prefer NC penultimate but I -- him up pretty. Into an ultimate Mets of the season finale are sweet but for now. Alex -- here in the blizzard joining us from really love. Lovely. We can't -- rob Bradford Hello World. But couldn't I was spoiled by all the advertise sponsors and -- beach -- pizza -- everyone should be. Very nice people -- place. There ego so so I guess we're gonna have you spoke to Jon Lester earlier today -- gonna play into the next year after the first break. Anything jump out news -- force here from for the last spot. Yeah haven't I thought doors it was about twenty minutes long guys are either very point to stop it was but I. They're very animated about -- about oh where you want to go in terms of its performance and and you are you excited I just mistakenly used the word -- the trade next hole and he pointed out but it's pretty. Got a pretty good level prior to last year history -- it and I think. That I tried to articulate them the next level maybe it's just doing what you had been doing prior to last year. For the next four years to got -- hoping that I think that it everywhere which are not -- -- the -- and other America. You'll want to talk away about pretty its contract status about you -- -- -- -- sign on. Yeah option years ago to get past security now that security -- public to a -- the last -- year was an option year next year and then I'm -- also talked about the trade -- with Kansas City -- I was disappointed about that. So yeah I got big good. Because he clearly motivate -- motivated guy anyway it didn't. I guess the chip on -- shoulder Libya a good way to put it -- yeah -- a -- -- that's no different this year. Thirteen million team option coming up next your fullest I'll cheer about earlier this week you know he's talking about Agassi -- angered -- that I don't think you ever reached. That level what you consider basic things really close. But he disagrees and seemed like you did earlier this week to. Actually do disagree I think that what he did it in from 2008 to 2011 is under appreciated when you look at the history of the game and I'm talking about you know do your baseball reference search from 1901 on. There are sixteen. There are he was the sixteenth pitcher ever. Ever ever ever. Two record four straight seasons between ages 24 and 27. In which he threw enough innings to qualify for the ERA title and had an ERA plus it was that suggested as Jerry was basically 20% better. Did anyone else year after year after year after year that's what I want in an ace -- -- someone who has consistently going to be pitching had an all star quality or higher. In that's that's what he was doing and so I think that. I think that he's kind of suffers from a halo effect of maybe Pedro Martinez. When we saw someone who was so otherworldly that it's blown out our standards for what a terrific pitcher is. I mean look Justin Verlander had had a below league average ERA a few years ago when he was I think I. 2627. So it happens to a lot of guys I just think that. And for the first this idea that Lester hasn't taken it to the next level I think is a little bit unfair. To what he did manage to accomplish for a number of years Yale. A big difference though guys is that Lester had that he never built upon that year out stuck before you're you're right he's remarkably never meet at least to me. That's super -- people expect you just kind of set a high standard. It's not -- didn't go higher but now he was always that to me he was always kind of one of that one of the best five pitchers in the American League is as far as starters go and I don't know. What level you -- there I mean I guess that there is there's maybe the hall of fame level right that's above that these guys -- at a Cy Young sort of well you had a couple that were real them close to being a Cy Young error if you look at 2010 when he was. You know nineteen and seven got a couple of -- a couple of bad starts right that ended up which is ERA over right you know in -- like. 3.2 ish area but. You know without like one terrible start here and there he ends up with a sub three ERA. You're talking about a guy would have been a top two top three Cy Young contender -- -- -- money rob is it is is Lester and again that he is a year. What you had was just say 22 years ago if he has a year or two more years like that talking about a hundred million bucks. Yeah I want it to gut or the arbitration catapult you because you went -- -- came kind of deal. That's where it's good that happened everywhere with got a jump beyond hey you know what to compete aren't up what Chara looked at that you Allard RB Gilbert. I think the coverage into Troy is old Buick Alex. Points but thanks -- they what what contrast he continues. There's how he is going to be few poor this contract at all well and good how the public viewed him. And if you ATP like Pedro marquis did you know PGA starters better because it buckled. About anything is exactly what you took out which is. You know what what goes where it didn't go eat it and turn them into next contract which has writer comical. Yeah although it's not quite right around the corner regular finishes the season by the time -- -- -- -- go -- -- you as you pointed out. Today didn't you -- the older body is basically. That you understand as an option but he also understand it's an option could do it by being traded to certain eagle putt dropped serve. This good in doing this year -- tremendously important for a lot of reasons one of the reasons he did mention with the Kuwait int Huard get paired. Kirkuk is -- guaranteed year edited -- on my. Which result with Kevin Youkilis last year to be sure but I mean to me you know as much as I you know I think that I'm on the -- I didn't my biases. Or at least my conviction is that Lester. Had a number of years in which he was kind of an ace caliber pitcher that the same time I'm still not sure that I want to extend him if I'm the Red Sox because I think exact instance of a kind of good that danger zone where -- that they did I know John Lackey right trying to avoid you to give lesser fields for five years for. Eat your hundred million dollars in his thirties at least five right thirties for a diving went does that work. I mean you know I I even think that I even question the Felix Hernandez extension that was just signed granted they just extended him for five years but. You know they already had him for two more years of their Davis could sign offer. What years 29 to 34 -- a record setting contract for a guy who has a ton of mileage on his on his arm. Yeah I was with pitchers the risks are just. You know it's one thing to sign free agent position players free agent pitching is just wow that's -- -- a lot of risk. Then everybody get from the red cart point of view is that you you don't need a couple of extra guy you can talk about bad arm through color. All these other guys but. Do you go to Egypt -- crop rotation guy if you are willing to let Lester go after the next year so back I would arm creepy equate -- if you feel quite possible that -- well. To optimize your control through 2070. And controlled around that but that's why I do expect it will probably kind of ride it out laughter Q where. And couldn't and then it opened up because into a bidding war they really like a little bit and a. You know guys that strikes me is that this would be prime opportunity for the Red Sox to at least amassing less repute. In restart conversations with him a long term deal they were ever going to do it because he's coming off such a bad year but you reported yesterday. -- that hasn't happened it that surprises me the Red Sox have at least started the conversation given you regularly get him for some you know eighty cents on the dollar. Yeah I I think it does -- do like I agree this would appear the speed pursuit exactly that are -- -- you've got. But that might be just good understanding pat. There suited to enter into a conversation. And you're there. Pushed back with you all the numbers and Alex could just matchup and a legitimate numbers and if you're coming out -- more of those numbers and where those facts. Then you have to get to a level where there is going to be you know kind of bargain basement got our own content -- so you know maybe that's how they think he had maybe that's why they haven't approached. To me I think there -- two considerations with stats from the Red Sox perspective one is that. You probably wanna make sure that the stuff comes back because he has seen a steady decline fastball velocity in and strike out numbers for the last three seasons so. So you don't take it and take anything for granted you wanna see the guy once again showing that he can you know that he can just dominate as he did for at such a large chunk of his career. And and secondly you know to my mind if -- the Red Sox now spring training is typically when you lay the ground work for a possible extension. Rather than yeah I think that their track record aside from Pedroia and maybe Youkilis has been. That when they talk contract it's typically not in the offseason but instead when the team gets back together in Fort Myers. Well I would think they're so that I I I agree that. Tibet to a degree when they do it but it -- -- directed the people that aren't talking to. Is it like. The red -- -- Pedroia or what Kurt did a lot more. The optimism but it -- -- stronger feeling that. It got funeral -- approach Pedroia but could not brochure about approaching a streak and -- be here. What else going on down thereof anything -- And John Farrell thought today. You all to consider to be like tomorrow on a little bit but. Mike Napoli going to be here tomorrow. And even blow up no limitations that he's right on a treadmill -- with no problems will not stretch in spring training that we kind of has learned before. Did -- not a good start work at first base tomorrow and -- end any debris got about it hurts you as well it started so -- it contributed so did today which appear to be ready for opening day how we get there. Get can be determined by it gets called I'll be ready. Are we getting close you are we getting -- I guess sort of semi panic stage from Red Sox perspective with the Ortiz is overreaction to me around here certainly get over the juice. He's accurate of the golden days of possibility given. Where it was last year people expect me back pretty soon I was saying opening day maybe maybe not getting closer that sort of thing. Well Ortiz to a -- the other days -- it was bought and particularly be -- by the -- it's got -- -- helped matters but if you see him what good -- confuse you more than around at the end of but -- That you have had a good obviously they'll be concerned because I'm happy I got away their open progress and he feels. Optimistic and so we're all we just won't know until it's kind of plays out it was it. Although I will say you know there was that optimism that there was progress at -- even last year in the fact that we're now. What 910 months removed from the initial -- injury. You know -- that suggested well this might not get kind of one and like this sort this -- Tuesday today. Well what our -- -- vehicle value and respect that. But say you are doing it should truly thrilled that I was able I'm doing agility drills without pain that I wasn't able to do before at the end of last year. So that's how he viewed it now you're right and it and it's been a long car. And it'd have to be somewhat of a red flag no question about it but I. And Phillies could -- -- here and you even start running around he kind of what the facts are what are your trust and ended. He didn't mention that you didn't minicamp last month or so because of the cold weather all what you -- pay people to restart and he did how much -- mop the only debt. And how important goes -- that all overpaid and become because. I can't help but to us last week so this is going to be something where -- now would probably be an awful lot more time -- -- -- -- what you go to when we get for the rest of the day you -- right. No I had never stopped every time I enjoyed your -- city and a -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- I'll tucked away. Thanks we get back it's going to be -- that is sitting down with Jon Lester FROST/NIXON asked him. As ever yeah as ever does that that's the standard for referral journalism on which part of FROST/NIXON series reality to get points or rob we get talked to Jon Lester after the break on the hot stove showed -- yet. Back on the hot stove WEEI. Per -- and Alex here rob Bradford was -- was the last segment. He's down the Fort -- back to work but it was great Mets segment he sounded just happy in the sun it was it was great stuff there really was -- But earlier today had a chance to talk to Jon Lester players and some spots in the first. Here's Jon Lester talking to -- but the next level rob asked him that sort of we talked about the beginning Hawks this idea -- Lester. Is not yet made that you don't agree with quite made that -- to sort of that status we thought he might be a couple of people like Michael or Verlander goes. Felix Hernandez degree being the next in line for the Pedro for those kind of like Pedro as showing a level of you know transcendent figures so -- best -- about that here's Izturis. It's wise no I don't know just understand -- is. Take last year Sodom and fifteen more games for four straight years there's only the pitchers that did that so what next level is there. That's the thing that frustrates me is people don't consider mean Mason don't consider me -- Frontline starter -- when there's two other pitchers in all of baseball but did that. What am I. -- oh that that's my argument to. What extra level is it possible to win 25 games every year. I'm really. Not possible. You know because wins. Are not in -- -- -- Mean you look at last year on the quality -- that how many games -- lose well went eight innings you after Angeles. So. I can't control the outcome of the game I can only control. Being healthy every five days ago there pitch and that's what I consider -- Is I don't appeared yours. The number five guys opening day guard somebody in between if you take every five days and you it did you bust your ass. To me in my mind that's an. So. The next level I don't know the next level I don't know what people. From the from the next. So I've come to realize you know what I'm not concerned about the next I'm not concerned about what people from me I'm concerned with what I've done. The past sixty years is take the ball every five days take pride in that bust my ass whooped me in each start -- pitch 200 innings. That's all -- can control. You know jumps out at me Alex a couple things first of all -- multiple ways. Quickly mentions one for 415 wins for -- but that's just you know when they take neutral and spread you wanted to do it because of that we did say I can't control wins. Yeah although again the problem is that -- the -- his. I think that. It's -- has he is one of the only three guys for those four years who had fifteen plus wins in an ERA of 3.5 or below and obviously the RA. Is in many ways a more important number in a more revealing ones in split time during those years him CC and Roy Halladay. Were the only three guys in the majors to have that kind of consistency. Of winning with what we RA but I get over I 20082 -- This idea from -- these almost like. We're expecting to go 23524. ERA I mean yes some people would expect that that's what people thought. You were -- couple years ago a graduating. That kind of year that is the reason I think it's a people's eyes for discipline because you agree he's never had the kind of his best is not in Verlander is best is not sure that's not open. He has a right -- and that is to your point right he hasn't he hasn't won a Cy -- he hasn't had the year when he's been the best pitcher in baseball. He's been kind of among the best pitchers in baseball. And I do think that there was this sentence fit because of his age because of his dominance because of his stuff. Did he was capable of you know of being of of the Verlander to have season and the funny thing as he you know he could view that as a compliment rightly. The fact that people think that these kids doctors and I've really do think his stuff. You know during those during those four years was as good as any mountain in the world. So the fact it does so he views it as as being dismissive of what he accomplished and there's some truth to that I do think that again. If you look at it across history you know it's kind of it was a kind of hall of fame caliber. Age 24 to 27 run. But at the same time you know that consistency was that was viewed as not being sufficient based on the fact that the peak. Wasn't that of you know the kind of transcendent Cy Young guy and I do think to be sensitive about that because I do think. As he wants to defend his record clearly he's sensitive about it. QB guy in line here a year ago two years ago for one of those major you know. Enormous -- not maybe now we just suffered juice and -- -- but he's come through an option year Red Sox team option thirteen million dollars and the potential contract coming up. It's on the talk -- again you're likely brought earlier today I mean and. You know even option so far away and now it's next year and it's an option you don't know you know obviously if I go -- have a good year. 99%. Can you -- I go and have an OK year. Don't know you know there's there's -- bit unknown of stability where we can be what we can do -- -- you know that -- -- a lot of people don't have to deal with. Lot of people do and just like you said the nature of the beast and it is what it is and and this a -- realized how much talk about it and move. -- -- that's all I can do I can't worry about that. Because if I -- do my job this stuff take care of itself I don't want to do my job that's win. You the second questions in the OK what about this and that. You know with a -- and it is what it is you know you have to cross that bridge when when it comes in. That's how much try to do is pitch and cross that bridge when it comes. So I mean it's hard for me to believe well short of falling off a Cliff -- And put another way. It's Lester has a year this year which he had last year distant and pick up there. I think as long as he's healthy health is the extent of it yes. Yeah I mean look they just gave thirteen million dollars a year exact -- Ryan Dempster they've you know and the market for Edwin Jackson was you know I was thirteen million dollars a year guy like an animal Sanchez. It's five years and 75 so yeah Jon Lester. If he's healthy. Then based on the -- -- I think Dan Haren coming off an injured season. Actually just got a one year is a million years work it's interesting to me Leicester this year. Eighteen and 8331. Point one you know strikeouts go up a little bit -- Woody talk. That's the interesting one because the guys who have had extensions -- at his kind of with with -- -- -- performance track record have typically been more than a year out from free agency right so they've been you know Felix Hernandez who we were just talking about a little bit earlier. I'm just signed a five year extension with two full seasons left on his contract. And that was what you know that that was like. 2728. Million dollars a year on those. And those extension years. So that's what it starts to become. A little bit tricky because there was this one class of like of second extension second long term extensions where. You look to guys getting five years and in the vicinity of 8590 million dollars and you think Jeff Lester had you know a great year in 2013. Proved -- 2012 was the aberration of course the Red Sox would be comfortable going to. You know going to like maybe nineteen inch twenty ish million dollars a year five years. For those five years. But then you get into the question of well what if it's 255 five he's proven they have that I second or -- outs have a picnic in the -- I just think they're not gonna give this guy 859000. Million dollars if they're being truthful. About their philosophy. I don't see it doesn't really knock on -- I just I don't see. Another way of looking at this is look at the predicament that signing Josh Beckett resigning Josh Beckett got them -- because you know he was. He had been really really good in in 2009. At the beginning of 2010 may say okay. Even though you're a year out from free agency we're going to attack on for years -- -- him in April or early Saturday April right yeah of it was a luxury tax thing to witness obviously yeah I was basically with a year left on his contract. Four years ranked sixty red victorious. Yes 68 million bucks. Ends that ended up and so in the year when in in the year that was his quote unquote -- year that ended up -- -- what did he was dreadful. He would have to have cost them a lot less -- bats. Had they waited until after the season. And then -- and then he was actually very good people you know and should remember for those first -- our 2011. Before it went off the rails at the end of it -- last year. Boy that contract looks terrible the last three years of that contract. With his shoulder clearly having lost strength his fastball velocity diminishing you know that's is that what you would be looking out with Jon Lester if you were to extend him and it's a tough one because the red socks love his make up for red socks love his you know his commitment to his work ethic. Things that we heard about Beckett as well of course. Lester would be younger than Beckett was -- he would have fewer and fewer innings I think logged on his career but. You know it's still any time you're talking about a pitcher in his thirties. To sign him to five years not there's there's a huge risk now no matter who it is if you know. And he goes somewhere -- five years is great but like I wouldn't do it rob next talked to Leicester here this is interesting and I haven't heard talk too much focus in the offseason out who's that. That deal footer on Myers at Kansas City. The rays ended up ended up -- achieving with them in getting its huge prospector turned in addition to Myers also getting them you know -- well regarded pitcher but yeah first it was Lester and so rob passed Muster about the trade rumors the offseason we felt about that. You know I've got. After last year you know he yeah he do it you need people try to buy low. You know I figured. Well maybe he has you know he's down years they can. -- wanna get rid of them and try to. Maybe try to rebuild some more and then back into the top prospects. It is what it is it's business. I don't. Hold anything against and you know anything unions. Ownership or anything like -- business I understand. You know something that obviously. You need and he used to you know it's it's different when your name out there for the first time and oh man this could be possible for them cross the line. So I mean it's it's different but it in its business and pain and walk out your -- they retreat. I mean it. It's just the nature of what we do. It's and stability of what we do. You know you don't see that guys. It drafting call -- careers anymore it's just. It's it doesn't happen as much as it used to in. That's just throw things off and and he's listed earlier except that. I think the better off York regardless of schedule and now. How much organization says they. Want you around since its nature of what we do and that's. The quicker -- -- realize that the easier it becomes when things like last year this offseason come. Simple test your first test but it seemed like he was something he didn't really want to talk on anyone talking about it but I mean I think these overall message what you got around to it. Is true it was this is the business in the Red Sox are trying to get go get a guy he's also right I think. I'm sure teams look at it and say you know it's a good chance to get this guy 10. So yeah Mecca at the -- it was -- that the other spots it was a crazy open I mean I -- series comes from -- Couple things one is that the Red Sox were in a different position this year than they were ever before because. In the past they never would have discussed Jon -- at least in the last few years but because of the season they were coming off of for the first time they were really in position to actually listen on anyone on their roster rather than saying this the cornerstone player who we must keep. The second thing is. Lester is always had a very level head regarding trade rumors about him because he's actually been traded for I mean he was going to go to the Rangers for Alex Rodriguez along with Manny Ramirez. And he's very cognizant of that. Over the years he's brought it up you know he's brought it up in casual conversation or is -- different guys on different guy now -- he wasn't sure but he's he was convinced that he was gone then he was convinced it was gone one other time in his career I think. When to -- on rumors the on -- -- I -- -- up after the 2007 season he was convinced yet they're gonna deal for yelled hi and I'm a Minnesota twin. So he's not he's already kind of reconcile that his his. Himself to that even though he's also said it went in in saying that that's the business part of the game that he really wants to finish his career as a Red Sox. Interesting this year with blustery comes in as a guy. Coming off he really bad year for the first time now last year he came in. With different before dot com for other reasons he finished badly but didn't have a bad year -- record and finishing given the whole stuff arsenal's fault people felt differently about him. And that -- before we saw coming off a year we presume. He was still the guy that from -- this year is different. And rob asked about that lesser expanded on. On those -- that first month this offseason was tough. You know usually. If you spend a couple days here and there by myself whether it's. You know doubt farmer. You know just. Doing errands or whatever and I kind of reflect on things and think about the the season think think about how things went. But it seems like it it took me you know a lot longer than that -- me couple weeks to come out. Filter through. Everything. So you know I think you could really throw any and every one of those words. Into. You know my off season and into the spring training in. Into into my season and you know ready to. You know I've never been. I've never been on the side I've never had to prove myself. So. Using that as motivation. To go out. For him to myself that I am who I am. It's -- big -- guy and I do think that you know for the first time this last stretch but it's something to prove to name maybe he doesn't think that but this year he is a guy who you are looking at saint. Will it mean for a year he's been bad now he said you know I was bad one month that was grip and hit a bad -- should know. Yeah he was he had pretty good stuff and stretches at -- it's worth pointing out as well I do think that there were. You know if you were to take out this 13 start segment of -- season. Where his mechanics were just. Dreadful I mean god awful he basically was sticking his first in his foot into the first base dugout on every delivery. His his season has his numbers would look drastically different his ERA would have been about three quarters of a run lower. And then you're talking about a guy who went like. Nine and eleven with about a four point one ERA -- -- was evidence there is entitled nobody ever says adults take those three starts to -- yeah and this type of matter is even without those three starts you know his season would have been decent it still wouldn't -- our lower -- Right rate without such a right so I think he looks at it now is a year. And -- were Ferrell made very well play a factor this is a year. For him to bounce back this financial reasons now this pride reasons the fans and don't feel the same way as Lester as they did a couple of years ago. You know he's one of these guys and I think if you don't line them up 12 whatever. There's no way can happen any worse than in the second or third most important member of this team. He can absolutely be -- best player on the team basically he can be the most valuable member of the Red Sox. But if you fall short of that you know if he if he repeats what he was last year in the gap between what he can be in what he is as we saw in 2012. Is so significant that it creates a real obstacle for the Red Sox if they wanna be really good teams so. I I agree central central players central contributor and he knows it too and he cares about it. Which I do think from a makeup standpoint that's why the Red Sox love him because he embraces that he's not going to hide from it he wants to garden in his own words kickass. I've break we come back ESPN's. Keith law talks about the -- organizational rankings he had and where the Red Sox rank in the whole Major League minor league. System as that sounded great now and always trying to say. Where the Red Sox rank among all thirty farm systems in the majors should be one of my host allies aren't they actually host minor league shows I am to my experiences Kirk Keith law ESPN joints after a break and that's. Joining us now in the AT&T hotline is Keith law -- BSP and -- are you -- Go get a piece earlier this week ranking the organization's farm system one to thirty -- the Red Sox number seventeen I guess my question of the schedule that includes. So to do that you like it's it's part of the package were in the top 100 prospect in baseball into the top ten. For each organization. And. To do to organizational rankings now I'm looking much deeper than. I'm looking and really anybody in their system -- think projected. Is having some kind of significant Major League rule. Even if it's just the back up fourth outfielder quality reliever. And. And winning the upside -- what's the best case scenario for all these prospects in each of the systems and then also considering. Proximity how close are these guys to actually contributing in the majors -- not just actually getting here. But it being in the majors in and contribute some positive value to the Major League club and like the Red Sox have a decent farm system I think that the last two drafts. Have helped significantly in -- system that was really kind of on the downswing prior to that I don't think they a lot of impact it's close to the majors. But it is kind of high upside pitching I think they have more kind of back and. Pitching a quality relief prospect but not a lot of the potential number one and two starters that other organizations half where. It may not all they're not gonna alternative aces or virtues but at least the possibility exists that. -- you know keep. With the way the Red Sox are sort of selling this is and I can make any big deals and -- as for a couple of years and bank largely. On this farm system given your results -- which you found with a -- reason. Your Red Sox figured at some panic when you look at this now you're saying this is not one of the top half in baseball's Marxist. I wouldn't panic but I would definitely. If I were asking the Red Sox directly about benefits say well what you plan to do in the next say twelve months. To continue to improve the ranking to improve the gap. In the system and to try to bring in at least a couple more. High upside guys to match in your ball courts is the 19 -- -- look and I think that the spark that guy is getting extremely high likelihood determine if you. Well above average everyday player in the majors but it your top ten pick in the draft which they haven't haven't forever. And that's a huge opportunity for them to try to get another player like that because typically in the draft those guys off the board in the first 1015 picks. The Red Sox have to pick after that. So picking I believe it's -- overall this year. There has -- -- this year even better they've got that opportunity then to go out again but a guy like that it might be high school player which. I think he's probably not ideal for them but it's not agree -- for position players it's not a great draft for college bats. The best player available may be high school player and I don't think they know yet what direction they'd like to go and but at best player available could turn out to be something that's just not traditional for them what their first -- -- -- So one thing that -- interest in you said that you don't see a lot of kind of top of the rotation ceiling in in the Red Sox system at least you know in terms of in terms of likelihood of a projection. I think one of your more interest in evaluations was that of of Matt Barnes because. You know I know that you don't consult other ranking systems but he's someone who was viewed. As being a relatively. Easy to project number three by a lot of but by a lot of people both. You know publications as well as scouts. Hum with -- you know in some view him as kind of a a likely three potential for number two I assume that you view him a little bit differently. That gap certainly less than I don't I don't think that's that's reasonable. Evaluation of where Barnes is. Today and I you know I give him credit for four making I think a lot of progress. Since getting out of school where he his junior year UConn was a little bit disappointing allowed the attack -- him. Where they didn't think -- could have gone in the top ten or at least top fifteen. Going into spring in just kind of without the -- messing around the flyers that was. Go out garbage pitched four and that he has job and now he's back to fastball curveball changeup. Which is gonna be more effective for him than that that's why it was just kind of a waste of everybody's time. Now the big thing with sports is that. I don't strikeout numbers were great he's doing a lot of it is with great fastball command with Boston he loved to see that. But it's not like he has knockout style. And I think as he continues to move up the latter unless one of those pitches takes a big -- sport like suddenly the curve ball. -- -- two you know in terms on the twenty to eighty scale. Yeah he's probably going to be relying on that fastball command to continue to miss bats and that's harder and harder to do -- could move up the latter can you can certainly help yourself with that. -- You your -- colossal mistakes and yours but your walk. Hopefully allowing him to keep the ball park is that kind of like on the fastball. It to be there to help. But that's not typically how you end up. In the top two spots in rotation most guys you can pitch up there have one pitch that either clear Sweden has pitched or something that just generates tons of ground balls. And boards for me doesn't have any and I will felt like -- -- rays have a little bit because it's not a great delivery he's got the side if you repeat that the arm action. Fine but it's not a clean mr. gonna come across and that does give him -- -- slightly higher risk for injury that some of the other pitchers have rated higher -- So getting back to Kirk's earlier question about as you can kind of the Red Sox perspective of team building. Do you see as impact prospects the guys with a chance to come up and help at the Major League level in either -- thirteen or 24 team. I think that the two closest for me -- Jackie Bradley junior who could probably play defense in the majors right now sure. In the -- of the -- that far off I don't think he's gonna come up and -- superstar. He's gonna be high on base guy and which is great actually approach has really improved. The last twelve months -- We've got to have a kind of power he can play everyday it's -- -- probably be an above average regular at his peak because he's got a great defense of skills good range good -- Just -- cover up. More instinctive baseball player. Who get on base at a good clip he could probably do that. At some point 2014 maybe he starts the year on the roster then let Ellsbury walked and just let Bradley cut more into the role over the course of the year. I think -- Webster could help the big league club at some point this year it is issue would be if he gave him met art community have pretty damn good pitcher right there. Ray you've got he could -- -- like your ground ball he's got a good breaking ball he -- -- -- He has always had issues with fastball command and it would control he looked like control that you people like to start strikes. And that and can kind of develop a little slowly. Went to the converted shortstop he hasn't actually been pitching for that long and I think I and I -- that track to where it look at what's become moderate you expect him to make that. Move in in command and control. Because eventually. If you don't throw enough strikes you can't throw quality strikes with the fastball you do end up in the bullpen. Did they may choose to use him in the bullpen at some point -- and this year anyway they don't have a spot in the rotation but he's doing well enough for the fighters. Could come up to be -- 36 out guy in the middle innings for them in August and September yeah I. I think he'd actually -- an apple production. He -- obviously enjoyed a ski do you get the sense talking people our guest just observing your own. The bench urgent is the right guy plea disorganization specific yes in that aspect of it comes to. Farm system given -- get his history. Well if that's his background right that he oversaw a farm system over several years since. He's extremely well respected around the game he's seen as a good leader he's he has very thoughtful. It's very intelligent as the guy who could carry forward a lot of the philosophies that were in place at the previous regime. So I mean I haven't really heard any criticism of him directly depends some criticism. Of the -- there's a lot of confusion as to why -- Red Sox there. Are suddenly trying to play in the middle tier free agents to think historically the most dangerous area playing the premium guys. You know -- there let's fact it had trouble -- -- in general if you go after the start he'd do fine and if you go into the kind of bargain began. He can do pretty well the the middle peered into victory ideal for me was the worst free agent contract in the offseason. And Napoli obviously they redid the deal but there's no way of getting. The only years the guy he is basically a part time catcher Baston probably just a full time DH. Those are not the players that there really any I would recommend any team beside me but it seems like their strategy is that is that the class of free agents. We wanna go after at least for the next couple of years. And I wanna put that on any one particular person in the front office but just. Don't really understand that as a philosophy because of the history of -- class of free agents is not that good. I'm I'm curious about your your view of a couple of guys who have graduated technically from prospect status and -- weren't eligible. But I'm in terms of potential impact on the 2013 team. How do you -- guys like. How do you how do you view ruby Della Rosa. And coming off -- Tommy John surgery but with obviously electric stuff -- the hard way who had a great track record up until last year when. When the -- when the offensive numbers went down. And and a guy like to Salah who was spectacular in the major leagues last year and led to you know is it it's a reliever so you know there's a sustainability question. Two with Baylor or us that means he looked like a potentially before he got hurt I was getting called that sporting. March spring training and and in April 2 pro scout to win -- -- the the best I've seen all year. He's pitching with a -- fastball. A plus change up it was very easy strikes strikes command wasn't really there and then you know three months later the -- After we haven't really seen him all the way back at this point so. Do -- the -- could be adding that the potential still there it seems like the Bo outlaw stocks just the ability to throw that part is still in the arm. I don't know how much more time it's gonna take for him just to get back. Command wise field wise secondary to where he was before the surgery so I wouldn't tell you I think illnesses in the rotation all year this year. And he's effective I think eventually gets back to that point but don't be surprised to come out the first -- this season he's erratic. Because he's still trying to get back to where he was. To dol what seems like it sounds as well eleven -- yet but he could be back and starter originally really struggled in that role. Maybe he could morph back into that but it looked like you got so much success within our -- it was don't want certain that he be more than. Maybe a fourth starter if it is even act. I don't think -- out every isn't it to move him out of that spot. Well mark away and he could actually be really good big leaguer but he's. A back up back there and did what you got this. Kind of out of regular DH was offense just doesn't really profile. As even an average designated hitter in the will give what the standard is the American right now so he's kind of a bench player. Who's gonna struggle to find a lot playing time because teams carry twelve sometimes thirteen pitchers now. Players like -- the -- the veteran bench is 1015 years ago than they did today. Final question here -- for me is the real quickly sort of give us an idea where the other teams the American League east rank we have him ranked -- sort of you know among your your top thirty of the Yankees and Orioles. Rays and Blue Jays. The rays or third overall they are clearly the class of the division in terms of their minor league system and have to be like that not to be able stand at the Major League level we have to be able to replenish. From within character traits and part of what boosted them to it was. Picking up will Meyers Dick arteries via Mike Montgomery in the James Shields trade it would've been a couple spots lower in the rankings. And get the big -- have been acting the Orioles thirteen. If it's minor differences to -- beat the Yankees a better system attacks -- absolutely. Are they world better now they're kind of ball in that same general territory. It you don't have a lot of -- term impact either but they do have a group of position players. Moving gradually up the system all fairly young. I think they could end up with two maybe you can read above average or better regulars from back -- the Blue Jays basically gave the -- way these -- I think laughter. They're clearly the bottom of the division except one guy who's been a favorite of mine if you at a high school senior and Sanchez. Tremendous odd chance for three plus pages. Need to throw more strikes he's only twenty you'll be high -- there's almost no near term impact. From bear arms systems of the Blue Jays they kind of -- I I actually wrote that you know. And copilot with GM it's kind of pushed almost justice center of the table stood up they are all in at this point. And the worry about rebuilding the farm system after the next take two years or so they want to try to win. I'll keep we appreciate your time you and you should know this you join John Ferrell as the only three time guests on the hot stove show so. Right yeah I think that's the do I get like a hand like. It's it's the Triple Crown its just. Can keep three Richard that was the most appropriate and yet to come to grips with the fact it's the first line -- There's really no doubt. I. Think thanks elected but let's keep lobbyist into joining us on the hot stove show. Quick -- back. Final minutes of the hot stove show here on a WEEI out speaker and takeaways from the people spot. Well I do think that it's really interesting because we've heard so much this off season. From a number of publications and from the Red Sox themselves that they feel great about the shape. Of their farm system and its potential big league impact in the near future obviously key to you know keep approaches things. From the ease he he keeps his own counsel. And NT has a different view of the Red Sox farm system in terms of its. Short and medium term impact to mean the real question is how much impact are they going to get from 2013 and 2014. Look the Red Sox aren't under allusions that. They're going to have the -- -- Bogart's in Jackie Bradley junior and price -- now on Webster and ruby Dolores are all going to make seamless transitions to the big leagues. But their hope is that by having this volume of really interesting prospects that they're going to get some contributors were able to make an impact. In the next season or two. If if it takes a little bit longer than that then. You know it does become a little bit of -- what does that become a consultant -- -- what is it bleed into concern territory that I mean here's a year from now. I -- think fit 213 I think they're they are built for 2013 to be you know to let these guys develop at their -- -- starting in 2014 it becomes more important for them to start progressing to the to the Major League level Stephen Drew is only signed for -- years so shortstop as a question after that depending on how ugly -- -- Moves they might -- Bogart's there certainly Ellsbury Salisbury Jackie Bradley you know of Jackie Bradley junior gets injured or if he doesn't develop you know if he doesn't follow this great. Smooth the development path that he's been on. In -- doubling and triple -- this year than that could be back to be an issue for them. So and I think that they don't they don't exactly have a long term answer in the court in not in both corners -- needs someone like. A price -- -- may be a Bryan English to get healthy and get better. They could use all of our way to get you know to get in position to challenge -- assessment and so I think what fourteen is when. They really need to see some of these guys starting to make an impact even though they're not -- on all of them I don't. He said he does this independently -- But from people you talk to which you look at it is. It's not an -- -- this is kind of where most people have them ranked right now organization league you know he he knows about fire BI in the higher than most people he has them he has the way lower than most people baseball America I think has them as a top five farm system right but they they have. What is considered certainly their best crop of prospects in years and years. And depending on how you look at -- I mean. You know Keith has Zander Bogart's ranked as the top five prospects -- -- Minor League Baseball Jackie Bradley junior is viewed as an everyday center fielder in the next year plus. You know you have it five miles 100 right as they have for the Todd Ford -- top 100 other people have something like six Red Sox prospects. In the top 100 so it's a kind of eye of the beholder thing but he's he's definitely more conservative less bullish on their farm system. And others but there's you know but his opinion is you know. Is is well formed so the fact there's variation as a reminder that there is unpredictability here in the fact that you know a lot of people think the Red Sox farm system could be really did. Doesn't mean it certainly will be right up there we thank Keith law and Jon Lester for joining us Alex next week is the season finale about so optional. On Valentine's Day what better way in order -- what better way we'll what -- like questions with twists it's -- who's gonna die. We're going to be pregnant what's gonna happen is what intrigued palace intrigue is gonna happen in the season finale. Of the hot stove show Bradford Spearman hand who makes. -- -- -- Yeah it's it's like an episode of survivor I think we all have to eat like insects in order to find out. -- -- Alex and -- rob down in Florida and Jon Lester assistant Keith law would back next week hot stove show planet Mikey coming up next on WB yeah.

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