Jan 25, 2013|
Dan Shaughnessy joins D&C to talk about the new book he co-authored with Terry Francona. Despite Larry Lucchino not being painted in a positive light in the book, Shaughnessy says he's a "Lucchino guy." Shaughnessy also says money was not a motivational factor for Francona in agreeing to do the book.
Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.
That's certainly important. Just think how many books honesty and Francona would be selling that weren't for the man telltale story -- people away under while the Patriots did in my favor. That's true about South Carolina gave him the stays the child sees his goal or you right now this is like. This is a dream or -- Brad taught other Red Sox years Terry Francona and -- I renamed it every name and it is where we're gonna ask -- about that. The morning Shaughnessy. Are you doing a great great to. As well as anyone could and I'm glad you got the job I'm -- it wasn't some baseball book I'm glad it's about revenge. But the title Sox than this book should be called Tito is revenge. Terry Francona. Does a Michael Corleone on the Red Sox front scare fairly business. I'd tell him but should be appreciated Tito. Gotta admit that you admit this is -- revenge or. Vs Algeria we talked about this spring -- last year and you were funny to you said you know that. You know a lot of books in order read many books that you're looking for -- read this -- you have some anticipation and so. I'm just glad I didn't let you down we didn't that you countered in the today in terms of your anticipation -- John understanding get a book I. You know well yeah. He needs and on audio he needs. Yeah. And we got that it's it's like it looks like The Rolling Stones boxers like eleven just while totally -- and there's a lot of bumps and I don't know how the reader. Kept a straight base read the whole book but they did. It was ever a stated or implied mission statement. By hairy to you when you set down to begin this. Tell you the truth it was I want to manage again. I don't wanna bury anybody. The so you speak so -- Darius -- till Monday and. But you know it we all know it didn't end well and and feelings were hurt in that does come across it's still there it's still very. Vivid you you sense that last year when he came back for the hundred and you felt the tension and and they invited back again for that -- evidently was the eighth anniversary of the oak fourteen that goof -- thing at the end. And -- he came back of that but there was never the closest with these guys and if you read about it like that I'd like next last page of the book words his last email to John Henry. It is just I can't believe after eight years. You won't even answer my email and I thought we had mutual respect I guess I was wrong I mean that's pretty bad. That it -- like that after eight years and I I can't explain. I'm used to get no response to emails to guys like that but when you've managed the team and win two championships you would think he would. You're right back. Yeah we're not getting any response from the -- the dance so I -- tell -- this tell you used to be friendly used to be friends with Larry Lucchino right you feel bad about this conceit I'm sure. You let the ace that he hates you almost as much as he hates Terry Francona today. I saw Larry last night and we still lose or can't you laughed and guys that have you read the book yet. He said no I don't read fiction. As. And then you know we kind of it was kind of that this seem pretty chocolate to be up on our society is sitting on. He reminds me of the late Earl Weaver in some -- he can take a punch any punches back and it's not personal he's always somebody's lawyer he's acting on behalf of guys he works with his bosses and I understand that and there was a lot of tension with Larry all last year because we did have -- one sit down interview grudgingly and that he was in my face a lot. You know and then on the unused to that you know -- that's just the way it goes -- Again I I have multiple takeaways from this block M but when it comes to the source of the hole or -- my sense is based on how. Gary talks about and how you write about Theo he doesn't think he has an -- the only conclusion I can come to is that. Terry either suspect's Larry was the leak or. Their relationship was so contentious that he comes across this way in the book what used to. I think their relationship you know it was never comfortable and Larry. I mean yeah it's just they never really hit stride on. And but I don't know -- That's the hold source of the whole thing it's like -- where's Waldo and it's it's all in there and you know we're never gonna come out and named the source and it created a lot of fun. Detention and and people point fingers like everyone monetary and -- it's not me that that's what ended up after right. And then to different degrees people respond to him what they don't you know Larry talks about bringing in lie detector machines in nixonian investigations and in all the stuff I know it's been a big point of frustration for Larry. Could you know -- good thanks to him. Duke at Duke continue to contend you don't know who the sources. I'd say -- What I intelligent yet I mean you know yet if -- asked if if Terry askew you wouldn't tell Terry. That would be correct right you can't he can't but Francona knows cautions in those suspects right enemy he plays dumb but he has a good idea who it is. It's. It's one of those things I'm I'm surprised he hasn't ask you more about it honestly guys it's he's very. He's either respect Fuller or I don't know we have got we have -- I am I gonna ask you this year colleague nick Arafat writes today about -- on the Indians and the Indians and how. How they feel about Francona -- book and Francona called out the owners of his previous teams previous bosses. It says owners believe that once they hire someone whatever said behind closed doors should stay there. Now is that what Henry Werner Larry thought they feel like not only does he take the shots at them but this stuff was -- the stuff was confidential. And was it and it's just crossing a line when you -- out this way. Yeah that's actually good point and I hadn't really thought of it that way because one of the other writers -- talked to. -- about how. The guys in uniform it's always that code you know what what happens here stays here and all that stuff and and -- really felt that you know he would honor that and if there was anything with Lester or spectator Ortiz I would go to the guys. Who also hates me and try to you know get something back and forth just to represent that we weren't -- speaking here. And we did go to Larry and Tom and talk to them about. Everything well a lot of things that are in there. But I think that's a good point because because deal basically was the same as is as Terry in this case where they talked about. Those meetings and how it went down and what they felt so. I guess that's same code doesn't exist in and you know Larry and Tom both talked about the meeting that two fold. You know firing meeting that I mean they've they gave their -- so everybody was talking about. Meetings that I guess they weren't you know they were all freedom. Later on talk about. Every -- have a line what if -- -- Terry said. You know John Henry when I was with some waitress that night -- I thought he was married and would you put that in the book. Well I think that everybody had their lines and nobody nobody got down and dirty with with anybody you know with personal stuff like that so I think that. Everybody was being professional and how this dealt with a baseball team than what was going on with wins and losses and contracts and firings and firings. Speaking of firing you say you paint the scene of Grady leaving Pedro and and and John Henry looks at Larry Lucchino says should be that we fire him right now I know you said that it did play target us in the interview. You know I think. That's that's so old I can't remember. I think that might of I wrote a book reversing the curse I think that's in there I remember talking to all of them after they won -- four I can't remember who said who who said that. -- -- volley estimated that you and Francona split two million bucks for this book is that about right all of us that it was more and I would guess. Is was part of the Russians say obviously as part of the reason was the money a big motivation for Tyreke is the first -- -- have -- -- book opens I mean. Chapter one says I can't believe Francona did this this was a guy. You know make sure he kept everything in the club as protected as players did not have. Was it was not a guy who was known to reveal a whole lot and here he is reveal and everything mean. Well I think that he young. You know he was hurt by the way it ended and -- thought about it he kind of had time when his hands because he was -- -- you have one of those courses ESPN jobs and and you know we were pretty persuasive in the agent that I have on this is the guiding David black who also represents -- -- -- And he broke the Joseph Torre books as a when you have that model. You know -- -- Terry Francona -- respect Joseph Torre and you know well he did this if that worked out pretty well. This is the same guy why -- why not and you know get around me was probably. Harder for Terry didn't work with me that it was too good excuse me decide to do the project. Just because he's he was never really -- with us but you know we get past that pretty. Did the process for the entire project lead -- any sea change in who you think Terry Francona is what you think he has. Well he's very. Personalities on you know how people are busy throws on time early but refuse he's better it's amazing I can never beat him like me to -- 1030 and get the opportunities aren't there. So I love that about working with people and that was that was good and he -- You know he's that the way he was the -- he was loved by those clubhouse guys and all the people. You know with the jobs around the ballpark all around baseball has grown up in the clubhouse with his dad and and and he took care of them let's go to Mohegan Sun in a pile and -- five of those guys into the into the SUV at all on me he's just very generous. It was since they just 20000 dollars -- electric scouting report it and he wasn't included nothing I mean. Money doesn't mean a lot to this guy he's he's like you know that. Like we already got a colleges these TV in a bed you know and that that's trying to he can live like that. And he shares the gold and at those people over around the ballpark. You can go to Jack McCormick prepare again and they've they've looked him and he missed him that's -- It's just know a lot of the open wallet news in on his desk and just coming go take the money take my -- just don't tell me about. That's a great you know reflection on a guy but I was wondering this if he did it in the first person and he could not have. Painted a more positive picture of himself 'cause he's supposed to be modesty. Lot of that's false but you know he's always modest and it wasn't that good a ball player in his abdominal that. If did you consider writing this in the first person is in is that why you didn't do it. Well that's a good point Jerry and again the -- -- Marleau was exactly what we did. Which is to have the -- that the journalist Pete -- -- narrative and then -- cut in the Greek -- just keeps coming back and reinforcing and everything so. And that device it's a little goofy but. People I think get tired of the first person course like I did this that I did this and it's always found you know how those books are sounds like it's very hokey and this way. It also allows me. It takes some of the bullets like I can describe. Some of those characters over there without -- having to say you know. You couldn't have -- say I sent -- just 20000 -- without sounding and -- self important right like he was right plus plus it gave me license to describe people like trigger -- smartest man in the room type of thing you're not gonna fall back on that I chassis that you guys were fair and balanced Lucchino -- I mean you've got to admit you took them down pretty good. -- -- -- -- -- I salute you guys. They don't and that's in the past that now. And is that he -- the smartest -- the -- and he's got that well deserved Rolodex of enemies and Andy can take a punch and go back and -- -- I think it's he's been way under rated in Red Sox history as to what he did for those -- ten years now I mean to me without him none of the. God -- -- -- damage control amount you mean it. And -- -- night. -- go to dinner with a guy every year in spring training -- on the Lucchino got. You went to dinners that this year you think you and Larry going -- dinner. I would I would get here you better hope he doesn't read the book as if he reads the book you read. That that that won't happen but would you surprised to Francona was his. Forthcoming as he was with the drugs in -- I think he couched it a lot of times 'cause you always had to hear about his surgeries and all that. And the marriage and the family. Yeah I mean I thought that. And I think not much has been made that surprise -- that -- -- or some bullets -- people talking about but. To me the truck stop at the end and going into the MLB programming and the protection and predicting that this welcome back to lead me in the end. I mean it was it's it's an amazing story that's that's page turning stuck back there and I. I was and then the whole you know. Watergate nixonian news looked for the deep throat guy it's. The weather wasn't good it was good nobody looks couldn't happen. A up many as I suspected took his lumps in this thing but did you or did its Terry. Toned down his aggravation with all the stuff he did because it or me are the manager and I had to do all that stuff I'd be a lot more angry at many that he seems to be in the book. Yeah I -- -- you know hey you know as many gone to ratings everybody knows that and and -- it was you know when he was -- -- yet he wasn't that hard did just to have the light -- was you know trying to came to went that he was quiet and and that it's all explained in there and he would you know Terry would gather the veterans they look right so I see we you're seeing what you wanna do about this and and they would you know with the whole greater reward thing I mean he had to swallow a lot of stop and -- a lot of bullets and we all know that. It's pretty where -- breaks down into tears when they partly out enemies -- he's so exhausted. And just so tired of how would wore everybody out. And you know and coach Jack of -- one of his best friends and that was the tipping point I think for every. But over the the -- day and the only. Paragraph or two that really strange credibility was when Terry says he doesn't blame Manny. For the bat on the shoulder recalled strikes I know against her Rivera I just about the budget. Absolutely because that I'm thinking OK every everybody knows that's true write -- go in and -- he will absolutely square. He talked about Manny being back there loosened up. And you know being ready and -- if Manny didn't see the knew we couldn't do anything with a pitch. What happened and and Mariano did it three times so baseball people I'm tried of run by other players with that and I I get surprisingly little. Little backing that Manny was was you know chicken and Allen and so I'm humble I -- believe in as bad as it looked and that's that's his -- news is very adamant about that. What do you think Lucchino Henry and Werner are gonna do about this is all three of them look bad what you did in this book what Francona and it was reinforced the worst. Perceptions the worst image of these guys that that mourners you know and whatever reason TV guy doesn't always go and Henry's aloof and only cares about us soccer -- racing in that Larry's a tyrant I mean you may the -- look back and our do you think they'll respond. You know a lot of great things written about them -- great things about him in this book we have John Henry picked up cookies health insurance you know out of the that is of -- Hartley is not to do that. We can -- Jon Lester spamming across the country when. When John -- with with cancer. So you know the stories are all in there and everybody's. I I don't think anyone's gonna come forward and say that's not true because everything in there instruments. -- backs up everything that carries isn't. And I know a lot of it to be true without any of them and I just. I think that their best strategy elected everything is just to let it blow over it will say nothing over in the content 2000 -- I got Theo was remarkably can that I can't what did you get him drunk or something than. It was great it was at that Starbucks on -- on collect three hours and he got. He's so Smart and you cadet and doesn't trust me course you know but he he loosened up but he he. He really liked -- a lot I think he was you know -- little guilty about the way things ended everybody was. And just wanted to make sure Terry's book is good and he did he really it was helpful army. He he validates so many things that that's what's your story at the beginning I couldn't get anybody that they own up to that appropriate to -- -- put my purpose and. I don't can't get him Larry we just won the and World Series to be honest I didn't think it was that bad Lucchino wanna -- sweatshirts and if if if you know -- crafted that no one would have a problem you know. Course is just the symbol like that and yet the fact is there an out -- type -- guy and it just it's just Larry being Larry let let's go. But get these duck boats you you lose respect. Which which is -- we may. Where you Larry go to Danica is a once and we were gonna go watch -- little. That's stone would play well I don't -- out -- -- -- Text to give some advice and as we say good bye -- go to dinner with Larry spring training like a food taster with you. Yeah it will be like and -- got buddy Lehman are all about exactly Francona the Red Sox years Terry Francona Dan Shaughnessy. The I loved it especially because I got a free one -- -- they carried on it yet audio -- -- Reshape the paperback one which is going to be called he goes revenge. Much more marketable good luck down. And see with the NC on the AT&T AT&T important LT you know you know it's really good as people like UH honestly admit it could yet and all the fans. In the end who hate him. A reading and join it and as I said at the beginning thank -- -- -- Shaughnessy. I'm not short too many guys would have focused on that revenge. About the adult -- years and have been about as Curran of this -- purely a baseball book it's it's not just that -- -- it's it's how he -- and the subject material -- delicious should be like body seeking -- like ho -- into the sometime during the bookstore. Like Barnes and there's only one -- left in the world. The -- and look at the sports section of thousand books and you go who would have read that a look at the you know them. That. Into some bad Johnson's door and Marty Barrett story to go in on my life in the game to go who. Jack crap about your life in the game but this. Is different this is. All great stories this is a story -- read both lines are open -- to a 77797937. Your phone calls and a brief -- last week we get back.