Jan 10, 2013|
Kirk, Rob and Alex talk with Keith about what has to be taken into account when evaluating players from the seroid era when it comes to casting votes for the Hall of Fame. Keith talks about how important it is do distinguish between fact and speculation when casting the votes.
Transcript - will not be 100% accurate
Hot stove show in 937 -- yell across the WEEI radio network. And joining us now in the AT&T hotline is ESPN's Keith law keep its Turkmen and out spear rubber after all star witness. How could you voted for -- ceiling for the what are what do you what do you do. I want your credentials aren't instantly -- it. I had him rated -- Shawn Green. -- Tuesday was a travesty to Steve Finley doubled up Shawn Green results of that we're we're in doubled up Aaron Hill where it's true where we guys just it's just so confusing and where we at right now. In this whole thing as you look at the landscape here I guess you know a day after. It is that an excellent questions and I mean it's kind of an open question because it's not like we don't have one landscape anymore right we're very -- and I. Over. Particularly how to treat. Steroid guys and the steroid era and I -- -- hesitating before the straightened because. The steroid era it's just sort of loosely applied to the -- offense where we don't actually know who used why. And when and how much we don't want offense what offense of levels spiked kind of overnight too so you sort of arguing they all these guys just started using that same offseason. The steroid guys we were talking I've got you failed -- what Palmeiro. Guy to we have. Other sort of extra evidence outside of baseball that they use something like Bob Clement. And guide to to start happening I had what Jeff Bagwell you kind of big guy like he used to. I got to have acting on the backs -- something's. And you've got. You know I'd like to call -- the rational on the other side saying. He can't start doing it kept circling Jets injury here and speculate on who used white and wind got it just look at the historical record and go from -- decide. Who belong to all -- on that basis it's the only fair way to treat. Everybody at that point of view that I just dispelled is that -- obviously minority with two thirds of voters. Rejecting Bonderman and almost the same number I would think percentage rejecting club. So why is that true that you have to look at just the historical record of guys who were identified -- you know let the guys who failed tests for instance. What wide just look at their statistics not say look pitching the game and they cheated the history of the game I mean they're the ones who kind of wrecked the he's you know -- plus and ERA plus. Our -- methods for this era in which some people used you do it because it's not like you have. ERA plus only for clean guys right. What kind of punishment -- -- -- -- minutes of guys like that right. Well you know it changes it can never expect you know obviously we talked a lot we talked and all of the MVP discussion about. Went above replacement level and other stats like that there are built up the same thing replacement level as a function of league average was it which is a function of everyone's performance. -- been in the league in that particular year it at that position so I'll let you know what will pick on Palmeiro because. He -- tested because he nobody gets tight he was a good guy even though I don't feel bad forum. He would with the finger tell you that you've got guys yet he probably would and that would be at out truthful at the -- state felt it feel with Palmeiro. So if you believe -- that -- Bogut and yet he poses a problem for the week as a whole because. He his strong numbers. You can pretty uniform throughout his career he's very consistent those numbers. Boost the league average -- booster replacement level and you all of you can't -- any relatives that -- just how we kind of should be looking at things. So all viewed as a result. He original question I actually have no objection to voters who say Palmeiro that failed attack. Everything suspect could build -- presently his career to cease or wonder what went to the start. If you wanna throw that guy out he was he he failed attack and sanctioned by Major League Baseball there's actually something very tangible you could point to parents say. That's my reason for leaving him out. I start to get -- a couple of guys like. Bonds or Clemens because what we know that they probably use something comes from these sort of back and -- court proceedings. They were never sanctioned by Major League Baseball what you believe bonds was black -- when his career and they he could get another job because -- baseball wanted Q. There's never any official sanction on the record that nothing in Major League Baseball that says he actually used idiot that. So we are and inserting against some of our own speculation information we got from outside of the world of baseball. To make these judgments. On guys like that and that to me start -- on the slippery slope out of pure speculation and restart that culprit speculation fabrication. When you point to some of these other guys where their record -- totally clean. It you just don't like the way they blocked us. Our present that I kind of -- look through it is Alex Rodriguez when he's up for the hall of fame which well whatever it is in ten years whatever. What do you think 66 years -- can say that but what do you think the conversation because it in my mind politics is one of these guys to get them and then. Then we're sitting there without Eric reassess admitted steroid user. And the conversation totally change in and week we look back at what we're talking the last two days and was like that was ridiculous. Yeah -- or anything right but that argument can increase every January because to think they're changing the baseball audience. Especially that the worst period for the audience to spend time you know we spent time you know he's yelling at each other on Twitter. -- that part of the audience. Is growing getting more serious and more educated about the game we don't necessarily all agree he's certainly disputes over is Larry Walker are all gamers can -- the hall of Famer. But back hurt pretty much looks at that he can have a policy in the top spots have all been about -- these guys clearly have to be -- It's the same group with yelling about how to act more shouldn't be and because. If fabricating the pro sports voters or fabricating areas to support a candidacy that is clearly not supported. Five that actual evidenced by his performance on the field the other thing you're gonna -- the whole thing electorate is constantly changing. More voters are are getting into the electorate every year they get their ten year as a badge holders. Those tend to be younger voters who were going to tend to be a little wore paper magically not inclined to just favorable. And you have older voters will drop off the ranks at the pass away or because they'll simply stop voting. So I think over time that can happen overnight but over time the electoral will be a little more favorable that we. Some of these guys Palmeiro is -- I don't think he ever get them out -- McGwire get them. I think Bagwell. Yacht and I could bonded on that eventually get and -- -- take away -- chip. He thought ESPN joins us here in the hot stove -- get to bashing the BBW. That's what that's worth so. I think they're out so we can do a bunch of things here that we are egregious but here's one that he was just eliminate wins from the conversation for a second that I give you pitcher a and pitcher be one as Jack -- some wanna Schilling. It's not even close no -- even consider is close -- as Jack Morse is better -- Morse could 385 votes. Schilling gets 221. I guess two questions. Why is that and secondly do you think Curt Schilling ever gets involved does. I hope he does they think you belong there would -- voted absolutely. It horses total is so it's hard to do that apples to apples you know I completely understand where you're coming from new. The problem is more to say that this was his second to last year on the ballot he's got one more shot. And paradoxically. That players were on the ballot for a long time to -- -- vote totals increase. -- -- And it he doesn't actually get any better but the closer they get him more people say sure -- -- so yeah yeah and buster actually wrote a piece about that say how. He he's divorced guy -- -- last year next year he must have worked on that ballot. With the limited hand. And we're gonna like sixteen to twenty qualified guy next year depending on how -- -- big called Aaron Small hall guy. We have got several back -- have to be balked about not to have -- -- So that you like in Schilling's numbers are gonna increase probably a lot over the next few years I wonder if he is. Spoken personality are proud that like I never heard whispering I'm sure some people that Willie Clayton Harris and therefore he is suspect. But I wonder that he's you know he's outspoken opinionated. Which I think are good things because it might be some of those myself by. It can rubbed members of the media the wrong way there's no question and he came up with the Ray Lewis treatment these last couple weeks for -- has been very good with the media and he's getting. Favorable treatment as a result how you treat the media absolutely perfect cure all things and it. People change gears a little bit I know that you publish your 25 year twenty top 25 under 25 today and you had Miguel Miguel Cabrera is number one at bats and except that. Get an up and make it -- now I know he's amazing he's okay did guy that not only can he win the Triple Crown but he can also reverse the aging process like met. But die out from a from a Red Sox fan perspective and this is always a terrific article I enjoyed every year. It gives you really interesting insight on some of the top young talent it will hopefully impact game for used come. Middle Brooks made the list at number 22. I'm curious for your impressions of you know of both his strengths and limitations. -- perhaps how close to the -- Alexander Bogart's come to consideration. So little Brooks. It's funny because his strengths and weaknesses there's such clear delineation between material. He's a good defense at third base intention to be really good defensive third baseman. He's got power in the the power bleed a little more than I expected I was somewhat bearish on the Oprah coming into the season because. -- bat speed and he does not have a good approaches the plate. Which may be questioned how much -- how he was gonna get to. And what we saw limited time both in the minors for a limited time in the majors this looks like that's how it's gonna play -- probably played sooner than I expected. The flip side is particularly the approach and you could see that it really wore down his statistics before he is he would have -- August 10. The weakness in his plate discipline. Really start to effective pitchers were attacking him differently he would not making adjustments. They'll put enough what kind of make adjustments before he got hurt usually -- punish him too much on the west. When he didn't have the opportunity other players had to make those adjustments in season so. He like I sort of split the baby a little bit by putting him toward the Barry and the glitz rule like to have skepticism. The -- to batting average -- post a respectable on base percentage. I recognize that it given how weak third base is right now a guy who can really field position has 25 home run power. Is clearly a valuable commodity and given how young he is he's got more chance and -- -- 27 year old -- to improve that that one flawed plate discipline. A QB with -- we always appreciate your time thanks for joining us are now a member of the rob brown and to club number two club on the hot stove show as a second appearance all of them are -- -- yet since John Judd John Farrell last Arrington in my case they ago. Particularly a lot of things and let it not what I was originally out as well as flattering is it could be hit the next I don't know -- thanks a lot. My presidency -- the obvious in time to join us here.