Jan 10, 2013|
Tom Verducci has been lighting up SI.com with some great columns on the Baseball Hall of Fame. He joins D&C to give his thoughts on the empty class, Craig Biggio's merits as a first ballot candidate and Curt Schilling's chances moving forward.
Transcript - will not be 100% accurate
Doc -- will join us at 905 about an hour from now Curt Schilling at the bottom of this hour 830 and if you have any interest whatsoever in Major League Baseball and certainly what's happened in the last day or two with the hall of fame. And are too compelling pieces of information you must that your hands on. From the day before yesterday on SI dot com Sports Illustrated Tom -- -- -- say very well plot Al peace and I happen to agree with almost everything he says. Why I'll never vote for a known steroid user for the hall of fame and today the headline is -- rejection of bonds Clemens may be temporary -- hope he's wrong about that joining us on the AT&T hotline AT&T forgy LTE Auburn -- good morning Tom great work on both pieces. Gloria we're doing very well I am I I sugar -- on your second piece today. That I think next year's vote will be just as fascinating as what we witnessed yesterday because it will tell us whether these stamps is softening. About letting steroid users in the hall of fame fair to say yeah. Has definitely had so you know anybody reading or hearing things about the system's broken all of standing joke we need to paired up. Hang on a second year -- and not the first time don't want that elected. And it's not the end of the balloting for just about everybody at about other than dale Murphy is to process and I think a lot of writers look at this ballot. Let the whole era and really drug patents that I don't know what protected they'll and they couldn't bring himself to pull the lever on some of these guys. Knowing that if you get 5% -- stay on the ballot so you basically deferring a decision. A lot of writers don't wanna take a stand until they see which way the wind is blowing now they have some semblance of where those guys stand about out of action surprised -- departments -- -- they didn't. Now the question and actually another group of guys who say you know what I'm not going to vote first ballot for those guys. But I -- second ballot which it seems silly to -- but some people do that. Questioned how many people are in those camps how many people argued non first ballot voters will vote sec here. How many -- -- get confused democracy which way the wind was blowing. I think their -- also go -- and how much they go up will the -- and whether they get into the hall of fame eventually about not getting in the next. I would say five to ten year. But the prospects of getting and I think we'll know much better next year right now this year. So you don't suspect that the movement of the numbers and the percentages that we -- from Palmeiro McGwire going down. Will necessarily be the case for bonds and Clemens going forward. Not I think. What I just gathered randomly talked and other writers I think the -- different. Level different categories of Palmeiro McGwire I know some Arab wire so I think we can sit here today and -- fairly certain they're not getting all saint. Can't say that about bonds and Clemens quite yet we need a little more time. I can't think -- will go up but again. Not a whole lot of religion that it's they've got a mountain to climb as a lot bigger one than I expected going into this year's vote. -- about Obama I wanna say again that that the if you had written at a month ago Tom you might have changed some minds when you finished reading. This piece. I don't know how you could check the box next to Clemens and bought -- bonds or or McGwire and Palmeiro for that matter but I got to ask you about one guy. You make you change my mind about Jeff Bagwell in this piece. And I wouldn't vote -- you voted for even know you suspect them you voted for can you tell us why. Yeah I mean -- all -- people say the -- unquote no evidence on a lot of these guys have people assume that you never failed a test he must be clean and you know just checked Lance Armstrong story that. The financing to that. So I didn't I presume everybody that it says that just consider all the information that I know it was eleven. Reading too much about this and and talking to players and coaches and trainers. Too much about this the last two decades a big part of the game what we do it journalist or should they. So you know I have information I have thing that I know -- it goes beyond public information such as Jose Canseco or. The Mitchell report you know -- a person. Places that that well -- put out at least his position on steroids what really bothered me it was 2010. He basically it's -- slot guy and a roster try to make my first family steroids have no problem with McGwire bonds and steroid until watched. And what Eddie Perez did. Was partly why you didn't see that as performance enhancing the try to get himself back on the field by using the legal TDs. Talking about a guy who hired a bodybuilder 1995 been told as big as possible. I haven't used in a girl I mean. It yet I have to say that you all that a lot and I'm not using steroids not crossing that line was actually just character okay. And he told trying to make me is -- human made possible. -- obviously there's speculation they're out to say I I. Didn't get that next level -- got confirmation or hurt someone or does -- does little more tangible and our. Then what pat well I sent himself. So I didn't vote for it get the benefit of the doubt -- -- so great about it but I and giving the benefit of the doubt was. With duke but you know what he's still on the ballot at a bar I'm more information about steroid use concerning -- well I would reconsider that position. Why I think that's OY a lot of guys are kick and is down the road -- I understand it would do you think without. All the steroid guys on the ballot Biggio makes the hall of fame gets the 75% is he banned the price. For the era that he played it. No he's not entry here a video didn't get because Robbie Alomar didn't get it Barry -- didn't hit a document first ballot hall gamers Ryan Sandberg and first ballot. A -- video's better than any of those guys. It was very difficult negated a first ballot this was not a slap on steroids lap penalty Craig Biggio. I yes she had 3000 hips but for the last eight or nine years his career. Hewitt they'd ordinarily a bad player you know you hot dog for a very long time to get 3000 at his greatest crime I voted for him again. But it's not a slam dunk first ballot hall of Famer immediate Robin -- barely got over 75%. His first year so. Are they want to say that no other guys are getting penalized by being part of political Vieira. -- entirely wrong I think a lot -- just look at -- and says. I got quite out the first ballot measurement for all of thank -- people didn't vote for him that he will do it and you know inextricably topic is that there's a really big first -- -- me in that stretch -- get. But -- next year or the year after. What about Schilling's fate in this deal he will he enjoy the Jim -- bubble being looked at clean and competing in the dirty air. Yet possibly I don't think I bumped it. You know really that big but I do think that people opting to its arms around -- career. How good a lot of other than the win total now obviously the wind tunnel it's depressing has vote I figured okay. -- -- all augment Curt Schilling is Don Drysdale -- better control at a better postseason. And that's exactly remember shell. Now you think about to doctor -- tell you say oh yeah act as a hall of Famer. Well country right -- -- only 20% of the vote his first year an independent ballot again. Chilling way beyond 40% leased. Starting at a higher level he's going to get him out of it -- that had adopted my taken seven or eight. The people ought to get around the idea that he you know he doesn't have 250 -- And you're gonna have to look at the -- -- -- -- -- which is the greatest baseball history since the -- sixty feet six inches in the nineteenth century. The post season numbers the strikeout numbers -- weary citizens Cy Young voting and take some time for whatever reason but that's why guys are about fifteen years. Are you surprised coming your colleagues because. When you make the case I find it hard to refute the indication made here and yet I sit every day and watched. Bluster and watch stark and watch attempt Kirch and and listen in bunching guys up here in Boston voting for the Limbaugh on not just you know occasional juices but all the -- -- is -- You know you gotta let him and my answer is no you don't and clearly. You line up you know point by point why you don't have to let these guys in while more guys see it the way you do. That's a great question look and I respect everybody's opinion I think that is one of the great things about policy and voting is that. -- my agent one of what 56070. Whatever the number wasn't here. And it's really hard to get 75% even if you're not a associated with dvds so. I think the system obviously works its deep pressed most prestigious policy and at all sports and the reason for that that's because the writers did a good job voting for 77 year so it's not a mistake. Now I do have problems with some positions or at least so called explanations of why guys are willing to look the other way austerity. This idea that they have to go win because they were so good they need to represent the era. -- he can't help -- baseball historian baseball without those guys in the hall saint. They're really confusing. The museum. With the actual honoring of the best player. In a different thing also it does tell the story of the steroid era all the milestones the money's history. The story is the record and they all belong to those players you're talking about one thing and that's the highest endorsement but you can give a player. That enshrined in the hall saint not being recognized historically been enemies in two very different things and for some reason a lot of writers. Can't separated here -- not that hard. You also refute -- other arguments the people used specious as they may be it wasn't against the rules and everybody was doing it at the time. Yeah that one infuriates me the most I mean it's really an insult to all the guys who play the game -- Guys and they integrated the game in 47 that baseball is never more unfair that was the steroid era and there's a reason for that the reason for that was not MLB. It was not the writers covering the game the regional that the individual players to decide to stick it surrendered their but the simple -- Everybody made that decision. War and -- situation as far as voting of people being unhappy about great players not being called saint. One reason and the choice at the players made up the choice that the writer's name it. Aren't so I agree with Andre Dawson sent when he got -- its policy and you haven't away but as David baseball life. The talk about steroid users. The day you made a choice you chose the dark side of your legacy so we get those guys are disturbed their choice lies. They're going to use something that was so so burst into the game that they couldn't even talk about even to this day the united has some writers defending players will cave in December -- -- -- So to mandatory players made it their choice I -- make their choice that the saint Simons a lot of players out there who made the choice to play the game clean. And under the guise pilots until until I also about. And Tom I find it ironic and interesting that the clean guys who were losing to the Clemens and the bonds during their careers are far less adamant about this. Then the old time guys who weren't competing against the cheaters because the old time guys are are very staunch in saying they don't believe belong in the hall of fame. Yeah I mean I think that's part of that -- remind mentality players and pay your peers you know wants stepped out of line and net. Another reason why he got into this mess in the first place that lasted so long -- that was pressured from the union not to do anything about it. But I will say and -- immediate comply and not necessarily -- Famer and former players who will say that steroid users do not belong in the policy it. It is very hard to find former players who are out there campaigning. -- openly campaigned for steroid users to go to all that you know only writers are carrying out water there's not. Former players saying that these guys really have to go -- a very small in fact. What would Mark McGwire says here's a guy used steroids when there was no test. Well that was not forum vote against the rules when -- not everybody was doing at peace and I totally get it. You know I'm never getting all same I would never pushed or I made a mistake the one of the hardest thing to ever had to do was sit down talk to my ignited ten year old kid who say. -- make huge mistake. Take this spirit that's under the steroid comes up at all. Run away from just run I think I'm getting -- -- Not making excuses and understand why he's not halt but usually portrayed enlighten them honest position. -- been a huge mistake but also led a lot of money. You know and he might have been out of the game if not for steroids. Eight I agree with catcher is no question about that there's a lot of guys they didn't have to be in the hall things got to make money office steroids but. And that -- -- -- they had an address Mittal but it really but many people talking about how about the money part of it from outside people didn't make money but. People are saying well everybody is making so much money and stared back in the day so why did you complain now about it. I think deposition that the so overrated you look back -- and obviously -- remember 98. A great home run race and spiritual of all blog at that point. You look at the attendance figures and baseball attend the next year went down exactly went down three of the next five years after the 1998 season. You can take the most tendencies and of the steroid era. And it is worse than -- worst tendencies and on the testing era. An incentive that money was rampant turnstiles were spinning the retro look back and attendance. We we -- already this morning Morgan in people say it's that you know on the writers look the other way the media is as responsible as the players or the union in this. I'm not sure what we were supposed to do Tom we were there in 9899. Do you feel like the media dropped the ball do you feel like you did. Well I mean it's not a story has been overblown look I sat there after the 1997. Season and Mark McGwire house sitting across from the most cannot look them in the guy and you're used steroids your body is breaking down because he views them some years. He said no. They settled -- anything that's legal and not use steroids. I said that Alex Rodriguez in 2000 do it out to about steroids he says he knew absolutely nothing about them didn't know any players who took them. Didn't even know what they did. You can -- look back -- the story through the ninety's there are many references to stereotype -- Wires to -- for the 98 season about steroids. I think we actually. Went pretty you know principled when I came to report indicate he can't just struck me with speculation. If you have information. You Priscilla you're right absolutely didn't 2002 with can candidate he can't print rumors you can ask people about -- see how they respond. We just can't start accusing people widely with speculation. I mean that is much more irresponsible. Then being accused of poor old looking the other way it could acknowledge there are plenty of stories that talked about the influence -- spirit -- -- In general. Not tied specifically beer after remembered as something -- I had to -- so subversive about how they use their steroids that they are talking guys in the locker next to steroid users and had no idea. That they were using steroids. So how actors in -- general manager in the front office upstairs in the ballpark. Or writer who's so let's face and Larry hang out these guys. -- we're putting needle and about it so I reject that argument I think could indeed more aggressive you can always even more press about any topic. But to -- people looked the other way willingly that is at fault. Well I know I know you do and you've -- some of the best stuff including the story about the four minor league isn't in Fort Myers which. We can't get into now but I hope people can read data logged in all The Who gained 68 pounds and ten miles per hour or -- -- -- But. Before you -- come next year Glavine Maddux and Biggio what do you think next year will be up on that stage in July in Cooperstown. 2014. Yeah what's funny is we talked so much about the shut out how bad -- this year and next here might be very very crowded I think Matt I think lavender went I think Frank Thomas goes this. I'm not a 100% certain not -- should be -- -- some people may hold DH against him but he's right there Biggio right there and Morris is right there so out of those by. I think you're looking at minimum three going -- -- probably would have forego -- 1955. I can't predict for. But also remember there's that expansion. Committee meeting in December to vote and players and managers and coaches I think 1960 twos and 61 odd. On the ballot is expected to be Cox story La Russa Cheryl. All four of those -- going. Into -- you're looking at seven to eight. Induction speeches next here after the shot out of the year I think it can be very -- an excerpt of the mr. All -- to wrap it up by doubling back on the excuses and the reasons why bonds and Clemens should be yen and the one that I that always makes me just laugh is well they were hall of fame worthy before they got on the Jews. Yes so -- -- -- people present that argument are saying there's a certain number of home runs or win the strikeout he can reached works then okay. Used steroids by that. You know and I heard people say that if -- -- in the -- and the plaque is not gonna say the Barry Bonds retired in 1998. It's a conference all careers a decision some mixed use steroids is not made any more easier or better. Or easily condoned because they have reached a certain level MVP awards and had to reject that argument but I do hear a -- again I think that's what separated those two. From guys like Sosa and McGwire America. Great stuff. SI dot com Sports Illustrated Tom -- great job appreciate the time talk baseball you don't -- yeah we're gonna want to Robert Dozier but that doesn't Callahan on the AT&T hotline AT&T forgy LTE Curt Schilling straight ahead with Dennis Kelly --