WEEI>On Demand>>Should the Sox trade Jacoby Ellsbury for Cliff Lee? A very HEATED discussion

Should the Sox trade Jacoby Ellsbury for Cliff Lee? A very HEATED discussion

Dec 5, 2012|

Michael and Glenn have rarely disagreed about a topic as much on they do this one. Glenn wants to acquire Lee, Michael does not. They make their cases...

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Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

6177797937. A bunch of techsters for some reason. I don't know where they get information think that Cliff Lee is a 373839. Years old are roughly turned. 34. On August the thirtieth -- -- and good pitchers to. Pretty damn good pitcher I think it's an idea is the ideal not all but in this state that Iran right now lacking an -- In a position where Philadelphia may be looking to -- low -- money. And the Red Sox are loaded with cash right now to me that's a marriage. And if you gonna unload Jacoby Ellsbury gonna trade him. And -- of the value was in great out there and they may think that they can sign Jacoby Ellsbury by the way they need to center fielder in Philadelphia and they. Think that they may be able to sign him long term. And you can't sign them. I'm sorry that looks pretty good and well -- he's not why not perfect dollar reward. People are thinking that because there are looking at the end of the contract. If he if he Heath days through his contract. He'll be 37 at the end when the number. Will be 27 and a half million dollars -- In the buyout is even twelve and happening down -- right hand -- it's a hell of a contract mean for example. In 2013 whether he's -- for Philadelphia or Boston or the Yankees or anybody. Economic 25. Million dollars next year. So which you've got the money Michael you'll know anybody but you'll -- a sixty Charlie that you said it depends on allegedly. In your you're chat from poolside. In Los Angeles after the trade allegedly -- said. It's what they do and allegedly it's a nice little part is when they live radio is radio -- accessed. We're all five that's that's going to I was always concerned. But I would do a deal like that now I'm old -- you're through you're committing 2.5. 5075. You're you're committing to a 102 million dollars. Starting when a guy 34 years old that's the kind of stuff that. You would knock the red arc welder. And I'm not knocking them telling you why -- usually good. Starting a guy when he start acquiring guy when he 34 -- I'm looking at -- is that the repair torn apart and aren't here here's the different. The Red Sox are 656975. Even 78 when team next year. The revenues gonna draw and gonna start staying away -- they're gonna watch NASA and fewer hours it's gonna affect the team. Cliff weakens any year is at risk shortest you don't think that Victor Reno was an arrest that apple is not a risk. So you could say well they -- money they're like overspending at Wal-Mart vs overspending at Saks Fifth Avenue. That's the only difference it's still over -- it pretty big difference. But this guy gives you better -- -- if you're going to be a good team. You have a much better chance of Cliff Lee coming in here next year. Having a Goodyear is an ice and then you suddenly -- move yourself up in 28 a contender for -- a play off spot. The real -- you can -- -- and that position. You overspent and Wal-Mart says that's unfortunate overspent facts -- -- Not debilitating. I just wiped out by stone army over there. Listen so they and you don't forget what I would have done Mike Napoli and colorfully as an age difference there's -- there's the length of contract prince. And that amount the count and has Nugent as a player level because with Leah has asked. It's a tremendous pitcher needs an -- -- -- Napoli is not. Now police many seven and you're gonna ask him to do something now where you gonna put -- in the heart of your order and I'm not sure you're gonna get necessarily what you think you're going to get so I would do that. I would go for for Cliff -- I told you I would've gone for Dan -- for one year. I would've taken a gamble. You don't need to talk about the back problems. But he's back problems the last couple years and look at the innings he's adorable right now now he's done his eat a lot of -- he's lost a little bit of velocity. Yeah. If you want a year in lost velocity it's one. Our guy had an ERA of over 43 last year -- three ERA under 200 innings. Drop in velocity yes. I am let's get that -- definitely want but because that's what you do when -- in the Red Sox position. When you have money like that that's what you do you go after corrode. Okay they should've gone after a year ago. And they should have gone after him and offered more money than the Yankees this year maybe they do it it would have been a Smart move if they did. And even Ankara is gonna be thirty -- like road. And prepare like at a what are your deal at this is -- right now and you don't want anybody laid it up next year next year maybe -- funny it's the senior centers and Paul got. With your big market team and that's when you take the. The risk -- all one year deals -- not people Kuroda is a much better pitcher. In a much better 2012. Inherent much better correct. So -- the one year deal for Kuroda despite his age makes sense. Because of his talent level and because he did in the American League east -- was very was very productive. Vs the guy who had the drop in velocity his ERA it was well over four. And he can give you two ordered Michael. Instead the Red Sox -- Mike Napoli who had one of his worst seasons and pay him money like he's a superstar. Thirteen million dollars three years they do the same thing for Victor Reno who had an off year last year so what difference does it make you market and you want your team to spend here that's what they charge so much for tickets that's what -- all the marketing that's where it affects all of Fenway Park in the whole area. I don't want to have a big -- not to say I don't want them to beat Kansas City Pittsburgh. I'm not saying don't spend what I'm saying is don't spend on. Our inherent in the glad they didn't. And that their -- up the road like that but. He went back for the Yankees makes cents OK but that they're both -- deals Michael because -- now hits 39. So he might hit the wall I agree with you I would double -- a would have gone after Kuroda and I would have gone after dinner wine because. Apparently failed -- okay it's a one year deal with thirteen million it's easy there's no risk going into year two year history. If Victor Reno was nothing Napoli is nothing. You've got -- after this year where you are at odds with the odds of Napoli being nothing being washed up at the age of 31. It was a season last year go look at nepalese numbers like underwent a number without public out of what happened. -- a bad if you washed out I don't know. What happened last year why Texas LaBelle yeah all of it and it was gitmo one year deal to block him at thirteen. -- wanna -- they'll actually never seen it so remembers that for a guy. I like Mike Mike Napoli at the age of thirty year 31 not 3738. -- thirtieth 31 have a bad year and then they just. Would disappear after I hate to tell you yell at him. I hate to tell you -- you confine. Guys to fill in those gaps Ibanez last year the the Yankees found him on a one year deal to fill in the gap a -- you they Philbin. You can find guys to fill in the gaps that'll be available at the end. Who can hit for a little bit of power for you the thing that you can't find right now is pitching so that's where you take the risk. That's when you take the gamble they all go to work out for yep I know you're right some Obama gonna -- any -- may be a complete wreck next year. But it's worth the gamble if you're big market team Tampa Bay can't do it Kansas City can't do it. The Red Sox can't. Didn't David Ortiz hit 230 something a few years ago. Give -- your thirties. These are pretty good player. That you that you hadn't washed I did that was run from that I can't get rid of -- of -- -- federal and put -- -- yeah I get to 323330. Whatever while you're not gonna take all the -- on the pitching is what you ask. Personally don't know annual -- yeah -- -- -- cemetery in the lineup I'm not let me get away with this. You're saying. -- -- Somehow Mike Napoli is going to be washed up at 31 years old it's always be washed up at 31. His career is over. If he got -- -- baseball player Mike -- wonder Mike -- I don't think he's don't have a retirement I don't think he's or maybe maybe a Monday night the patriots can -- Matt Light and Mike Napoli because both guys are -- It's going into retirement or -- nicely paying no -- and Mike Napoli averages 324. At bats per season -- You're asking him to committing your pain and third team million dollars I'll tell you who should be offended David Ortiz. It must have been -- understanding baseball that can. He's actually agrees with me and -- rocky open Dover, New Hampshire hello rocky. Yeah and go back to the Cliff Lee. Were Ellsbury. Basically. Why he would even put felt very in the mix is jurists who put on your part. What are you go to an epic grappled all -- it's a merry freaking Christmas or they'll be up. Because we get rid of a young athlete -- basically. Hasn't got -- contract that would norm norm entity or whatever the word would be there and you're taking it got its -- you have the career with a -- enormous contract. I don't get it wouldn't speak about post area that Mexican. Well first of all I think Michael and I are both on the same page this when we don't wanna necessarily deal Jacoby Ellsbury away. But if the written the Red Sox apparently are looking to do. Okay that's why they that's why they acquired a guy hole as John Ferrell said last week we wanted to complete bulls right field in center field because I think that's what they're doing here. That's going on because they don't believe. Vacant re sign him at the end of this year I love. I wish he would stay here I wish they could sign -- -- key here for the next five or six years but if you. Bonnie yeah you got rid of now you've got -- Be right back at all again with players that are -- they're Korea. -- emission that you missed on the point you're missing what's going on. The Red Sox and all of our. Well I got enormous aren't I like yeah I think that effect that you -- -- -- unite here unite here in the particulars. Are here it's. Like you're listening to yourself that's good. But you got to listen to somebody else yeah. But the fact is that the Red Sox are the ones apparently who seemed to be pitching -- that's why they worked out that deal yesterday for victory and that's what you don't. So if that's the case we're talking about what you would do with a I don't want a deal of light but a fun dealing animal -- That might be a deal that could be made he apparently doesn't have tremendous value on the on the trade market. That's what not for guys got a bigger contract he'll ever bring -- and I can't then maybe humans are back on -- money bet. -- We're making now. Yeah I do I think if he has a terrific year. In 2013. You can be looking at a guy -- to get paid a 16070. Million dollars yes. Talking about now not here yet you're predicting. What started out right now right out today what you can't soul aren't. All I can assume if he has a great year next year. He's -- what -- very top 45 million dollar because we thank you have a good year next year. I don't so I didn't say that. I don't inaugural over the page I have no idea where you where you're coming from in this -- get -- kick him out of this. Is that I don't wanna deal Ellsbury away -- Michael does it I think he's a terrific player. He's an impact player unlike the three guys that depict -- so for this year -- -- -- role players aren't he's an impact what I'll hold on. But if they don't believe that apparently they don't. That they can hold on to -- long term beyond his free agency year when Scott Boras takes on the market next November. Then they maybe dealing him off now I would -- hold on to. And see if he can have a great year. It works out where his value will increase in the trade market even by the trade deadline even though -- lose the other team loses you lose out on the draft. I'd rather do that -- I think you can increase his value. With a big 2013. But if you -- deal now. He presents less value for you -- you and market it to me that's an interesting -- Philly wants to unload the Cliff Lee money. You need an ace pitcher. They need a center fielder they may believe they can sign Ellsbury after 2013. Is that is that -- There is is just that. Have you seen in these travel as much as. If we have analyzed. Or five years. I mean he's Buckley went on and anyway Phillies Seattle's. Where that -- taxes. So I mean that's normal meet and talk you here's your your asking the question a lot and this team -- one in this team -- If you're talking about currently. Make -- kind of silent. -- -- -- -- what you're talking I don't like he's like her genre you're talking about like they throw it -- race. He is the elite I got -- got. Well played the last he's -- he's consulting he's an ace right now they can't find an -- where are they going to final face it if if it. -- it's not a partly by by throwing a job blasters name -- yet they don't race if that cost that much about an eighth or anything else because that McDonnell won. -- between -- analyst. Before when Danica. Big ticket agent did an -- and paying him that that well until he's almost forty years old is discretion -- I don't know enough. Gonna happen in the next few weeks. All these people or hate -- -- -- won't -- they eat Lyonnais -- -- 36 and in this in this new world baseball where you actually drug test you know there's a drug policy. We got used to the arrow where Roger Clemens is performing well at this -- Andy -- is performing well at this -- now that they test you may have actually have a policy. It's unusual for a -- to be good when he's 36 missing completely it is unusual. Guy he's a string and he's thirty I don't care what he is -- 34 now I usually do it and recklessly not doing. If he's got a -- 36. What he's -- company 36 something is wrong. Generally. That's how baseball used to be before the steroid era. Now we're getting back to that might you can't expect guided -- -- and pay him 27 million dollars a year when there are seven at all he's an ace. The apparently you can get ahold of right now are. Philadelphia apparently was talking in Arizona about Justin Upton so we know that Philly. Is making him available if you could get Felix Hernandez right policy for Jacoby l.s browser. What is 6127. Point if you could get him I would do it in a heartbeat you can get older you can't get him. So like you -- and looking for an ideal situation that's an ideal situation. But it's not reality grant you -- unlike the contract. You -- like the contracts at the Red Sox hat before correct no I like the Gonzales want. I didn't like Crawford one I like Gonzales one. I get on 52 million. Yeah that's what you gonna if -- field is getting 225. Million. 152 million for Alex Gonzales that's the market I don't like the market know these guys -- worked -- if you wanna throw away. But if it based on what the market value is that was the market Crawford deal didn't make sense and Beckett on the way. Was good until September of eleven it was terrific he was worth the money. Until September 2011. When he lost those two games to Baltimore as he was great the rest of the season he was worth the money at a problem -- -- on non. I don't would you be coming up -- suddenly that I have problems with the money and their problems are invited property that I traveled. Far and final abhorrent it. I back here at about Joseph 6177790. A six point 777979370. Ideal phone number that's -- though we saw of the old phone number and X number on the on the -- People keep on that one. Deal. I said he just turned 34 years of age I. Closely. At 34 years of age. Curt Schilling was pitching for Arizona he was 22 and six with -- earned run average of two point 98. Age 35 he was 23 in settlement and earned run average of 3.2. Three. Thirty sexy with -- 89 with a two point 95 became -- Boston at age 37. 37 he was here for four years. He was 21 and six and 04. Earned run average of 32688. The next year. Fifteen and seven and -- six -- is a big party at age forty oval win in 2007. At age forty but this can't. 3450. Million dollars a year in a while I don't get to hear that Michael what I know. Here but not -- -- that he would get to the a 37 million a year to get that part Michael. You you're missing -- actually get it over and over. It cost that much for correctly you were ultimately. I don't wanna pay clip only -- -- five million dollars a year earlier when a guy who hadn't right last year won 27. -- -- at the 36 regular grade inflation. And your vision 2004. What was the average -- getting. What are they getting now look at the dollars Mike Napoli an inch 2004. Of getting three years and 39 million. You don't simply last year and we were talking about field when you're talking about a those guys at 240 million Michael at 240 in in a 2004. No it's it's great ball up the money well Alex Rodriguez got a lot -- had made a lot of money what I want to got out of money what god. It's not that the money out there all the -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- fifteen million dollars in 2004. -- 21 million now might -- Let's make it -- forget about inflation. Could you can't forget about it election in for the second with -- the dollars being spent now -- -- for for the sake of this argument let's forget about inflation. It's about Cliff Lee let's forget about. Prince Fielder and Albert -- I don't -- the Red Sox -- but that's but don't but don't take it the other way and suddenly -- the dollars aren't the -- the dollars are similar. You know for the Red Sox payroll was 1061. Away. Right now don't write lashed with 193 -- -- -- money is different Michael over that same number of players that logic every race is getting -- -- nine dollars. That's the going rate for -- when he primary biologic. That's the going rate for a good pitcher went 59 with CC sabathia what these things is getting that's -- -- now. That's what ticket you're not looking -- you're not looking at the same numbers twelve you -- look at the difference of all four. Vs the numbers of 2013. -- a huge difference -- Sabathia -- I'll look it up a durable pitchers that have taken a temperament between primary and I didn't Michael -- Michael you're paying. John like AT and yet. Out 141000014. Or fifteen point average because they keep to the whole deal with. Seventeen so to hold it that's the average. If you average you know maybe it's it's fifteen or sixteen -- that that -- but no that's what you're paying these guys now. So you know Beckett was getting what sixteen or seventeen to pay we right now an extra five or six million bucks a year I do it because you're desperate. You don't have an ace and you can't win without. -- -- at I think you have. Your your level your level of desperation is more than the Red Sox level desperation. And let me -- I don't think they're so desperate they feel like they have to go. And acquire Cliff Lee and that contract -- is one thing to get out I don't. As it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I'm not saying. I'm not when getting into desperation trying to figure that you asked me ways. In which as you said to me. Come up with -- ways in which the Red Sox can get better and do this and I'm trying to give you waste now is -- a perfect deal. No because you're in you're taking on form more money that you want to take on which is exactly what they did with Napoli. And Victor -- on what they did a with Ross here in the last week they're taking a more money than they need to far more. Then they they need to pay these guys based on their don't so I agree with you your over paying -- -- right now. But your big market team with plenty of money. You're dealing with a partner right now that wants to unload his money needs a center fielder I don't -- trade Jacoby Ellsbury but it might be. I nice marriage that may be the way of working and an upset do you from day one where I think Red Sox can improve their team right now is dealing away. Players to get players on other teams who are overpaid. Because as the Red Sox we can afford to them. Are hard and I just -- and makes sense it doesn't make -- being -- completely and I would not have been consistent. But it doesn't make sense to go for another team's play in this -- overpaid you think he's overpaid we think he's overpaid. Once you turn it into the rollover period. A look at the prices they've thrown out there. -- up to 75 million to roll over -- I'm not arguing small dog owners are -- I'm not arguing the merits of a professional athletes and then. How hotly don't know how they make more than teachers and -- I'm going there it would ams and all entertainment it's all fun and games. Don't care how much anybody makes make all the money you can. But in this industry in the industry -- baseball. If you've got one guy who can. If you got one guy who's given getting 125 million dollar contract and his team want them who want from him because they regret. The contract. Why would you with the Boston Red Sox -- and -- we will give you a favor and take their contract for me. As you're doing yourself a favor because you don't have an age maybe and you can't win without the rotation pitching so -- you for digital sales Philadelphia's pillow my dumb that Mike I would much rather they don't I would much rather put lesser role players out there. Minor leaguers and I'm picking up as opposed to the Napoli and the Victor Reno is and the Ross's and overspent and up more pitching right now Philadelphia's big market team. They don't they've failed miserably last couple years aren't so they've got to do something. So they so they gotta do something they're desperate like the Red Sox are. So they would trade in the media center field would try it they need to center field but look at -- that you're you're gonna go out and look at their staff. Go look at the starting rotation. That's the one area that they can afford to trade somebody what it's like the the race the race and trade one of the -- -- as a -- -- to pitching is why -- -- -- that it couldn't have gotten a summit so they choose. -- was okay because he's the most money. Cole Hamels is he's the most but the -- important. What you need it you'll don't. Have what they have right now.

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