Nov 25, 2012|
Dale brings up the Jim Schwartz debacle on Thanksgiving when he threw the challenge flag on a scoring play ultimately leading to the refs not reviewing a TD that would have been reversed. An undisciplined coach breeds an undiscplined team, though the other guys think Dale may be a little harsh on this point. This leads to the controversial Suh play that is being reviewed by the league in which it appears he may have kicked Texans QB Matt Schaub on purpose. A huge discussion erupts between Chatham and Faulk on one side and Dale and Price on the other discussing "dirty players" and what exactly constitutes a "dirty" play.
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Our number two. NFL Sunday Sports Radio WEEI press price from WEEI dot com is her along with former patriots linebacker Matt Chatham. Former patriots running back Kevin fault. Wanna get into more league wide -- it's one of those rare opportunities we have we don't have a specific game today. To talk about we're not breaking down the Patriots offense against the jets defense today -- It allows us to be a little more global with -- our discussion. And already we're hearing that there's going to be a rule change in the NFL it may actually happen this week yeah concerning the whole challenge flag thing the competition committee may move this thing up quickly they need to -- what had. Yet he actually had it happen twice in one up 100 hour span where Mike Smith did it. -- challenge flag improperly. You had hot headed Jim Schwartz do what in in the Thanksgiving night game. Especially stupid to do what I mean when you think about the fact that every scoring play and every turn over in the NFL it's automatically review. You don't need to challenge every he meets with the -- I'm just saying he's he's got Pete he let his emotions get the best of home. As he as you can clearly see on the sidelines east Japanese chess piece -- that's on me right now right on me. He knew what had happened. But it's the ultimate goal is to get the play right the rule that they've gotten placed just doesn't make any sense at all. That's why it is moving so quick that's why is -- done so quick if they do it this week are talking about doing -- this well I've. It is listen to it and watching the films on and everything if Steve Gregg was gonna do it next year. But now since you say it's my first time here and that they're going to change. Talking about -- competition committee at least discussing and on a conference call as early as this week Lou whenever you have a call. That kind of dictates the -- that's exactly I thought I think that needs to be really addressed very fast and have it twice happen in the list you know. You have to address that real quick have you guys ever. In a situation like this where where there's been a -- world that never -- -- -- and we should fix that yeah I edited yet there's a problem with that where all of a sudden just people. Literally I don't know where where it. I'm I'm going to be on -- obviously have a tougher time bringing as many people the party of no longer for me it's that Google finance the drives me nuts yeah. Where you -- what is a loophole I mean it is a local and at the reason it wasn't reviewed in the Baltimore game one talking about were it was in my mind capsule missed some think there's any question that -- the idea that. This to Kevin's point the actual outcome of the game swings on the interpretation of a human being shouldn't be that way in any part of the rule book. I think we have that was ancient royals know the call and call for you've got. You've got to 75 page manual and nobody out there knows half the rules and it's. Just some quirk and it you know can term because you've used the wrong or golf ball you move the blade of grass. You don't want that and felt this is a game it's all about -- I mean when a guy gets blown nobody falls is back he's down. I mean when a guy catches the ball goes in those -- got me an -- and catches in March -- what I mean there's not a shouldn't be an interpreted things is not gymnastics. So we have these kind of things were just doesn't make sense pragmatically why. Can't give review every guy with a -- eyes sees -- that's not right openness and our ruled. -- -- -- I mean that's not a that's not the way to run the greatest sports league in the world so I think. At least to be with those credit they're not be televise the misses are like a big red tape thing we're gonna take a monster figured out they know what's wrong but I gotta go change it change it now. Now the interesting thing here and some people brought this up we talked about it a bit on Friday Steve DeOssie and I didn't. Have the exact identical play happened okay. And have Gary -- we expect him I'm gonna throw a challenge now I'll take. The penalty quote unquote but now they can't review it and take the touchdown away from my guy. That couldn't work by the that's correct the rule is stated specifically that you can't gain an advantage by throwing -- challenge flag they would they would have actually reviewed the play for Ted Kubiak on the fly. Now having said all that an -- I don't want take any blame away from Jim Schwartz here aren't you got all the rules and this one's pretty simple. They're gonna review this play no matter what you say -- do its so called -- down and let them do their job. The the late eighties he's in here to gain it's one of those bang bang mall was to where it happened and he knew. When you look at it early on film the replay. You knew hands down that this guy was down. You know -- yeah and there. It was one -- that his emotions took over for. That that should never be the coach of the event that should -- Stewart Kevin I'm really sorry I can't beat the weird goat he's human too ignorant you -- -- are you can't get swept away in emotions like daddy and you can't you can't let that uses -- -- as the moment that you've seen. And there's a lot of won't get to see that you don't realize that the coach gets swept up in the air hose problem if your coach. New York telling your players. You keep your head you'll you'll. Pay attention to what you do when you don't get swept up and you do it there they are and and disciplined football team from start finish anyway. And I think a lot of it has to do with the undisciplined nature of their coach as a player as a person. You noted you're not perfect and I know my coach is now -- he's gonna make mistakes and that was just a prime example. At a critical time in a game that is show that he made in the. You do after coach. Did you guys don't say decade and you did did you let that happen he can't get swept up in the emotion again in my I understand that that you are human and is just it's human nature did you jacked up in moments like that be you can't -- -- that we can keep your -- teaching to. I thought I think. -- -- seemed to -- I think what's interest in those if you look at when you're trying to search backwards here for -- -- the rule exists. What harm is there and having -- that flag I think the reason for how to prevent a coach from using it as another timeout right exactly it's like a delay of game types saying -- -- and that's why sort of punitive fifteen yards exist and may -- you know say hey don't do that -- staying a little bit if you do when you're sort of destruct before the game but beyond that. I mean is is so critical that you can't mean opposite approaches -- so critical to not allow audio can be correct. There will be the review of another kind stemming from that game on Thanksgiving night tomorrow. They will take a look at the play of Ndamukong Suh and the kick at match job now Mike Lombardi and I talked about this on Friday. Mike thought that he wasn't trying to kick in there you know -- expect his leg to go that sort of thing. I actually tweeted out of video link to Mike on a different angle and I'm with all due respect to Mike White. Admire very very much. There's no way you can look at the angle that I put on Twitter and make a suggestion that Ndamukong Suh wasn't trying to kick match job. And in my opinion was actually try to kick him where he did to his his past record doesn't help at all either. That's the problem in his past record doesn't open it oh as a player. I'm hoping. That it wasn't done intention. But as a player when you're in the heat of the battle and he got knocked down he got blocked out absolutely he got blocked. Your next -- at the -- I gotta -- the quarterback down no matter what I don't know if you try to trip him what do would have. -- it did -- -- he -- the EP definitely changed the angle of his it was not the pendulum all but knocked down policy change the angle. But he did come with some aggression and am not I got here I really. -- -- using he'd better I hope they're eating too I'm I'm the same person I but his past records. -- tour I don't know if you consider that he was -- for the growing but that he was so that's what he was gag announcing where I'm just saying that that's why that's why don't like these rules we're. Is susser rules in the game but the defining where a lot of it hinges upon intent. Which is -- insane to try to judge from a from a C guy is -- either having not played in -- that position and it is our our opinion into that like and again it's -- you know thousands -- thousand dollar swing on it. But to this point you guys are both right it is that the the stable plays in the past worries collegial and -- -- doesn't help him. But that's set I just don't like this were returned in the sort of Monday morning title tells -- -- -- looks bad on a man you know take his money to make sure we ought to PayPal accounts strictly -- -- -- I don't want to take his money I want a -- I want him out of the game for game OK. Now I don't like I'll admit that I like the nasty Alec did Jack -- -- like this stuff at the line yup. I don't know -- this argument that you and I have had this discussion and I know you consider football lot differently than -- -- -- you should. You can't possibly tell -- -- mine. You like a guy who intentionally kicks in other men on the football field -- can't say. Maybe -- with a foot and there was a lot of it has done before we even looked at football game. A lot of this intentional play a lot of this -- -- that was brought. What was the famous tackled he made everybody knows that they've really closed. -- market. I'm not down right. Go to being there were also -- different game. Aren't we aren't going to activities is right it's not usually viewed differently today of Jacqueline -- today DB via my point is. Nobody complained about it day. Now we have a lot of -- and we have a lot of opinions. Of people that have played maybe it did in their opinions way a whole lot for instance like when this happened. -- were right with the credit that was caught a game. One got -- again it was like oh he needs to be suspended it. Don't like. Sorry -- with Collins -- needs to be suspended -- -- got on our -- he does not change but here's the -- has not I -- it's -- -- resigned his job that is and that's what bothers me because if you're -- be an analyst you're analyzing the apple could gain you know on analyzing. All electric -- -- the context in -- that is the that is a football player in the context of agreement that that part of the game and it happens between the lines and that's what's going. True blacks throw flags don't start talking about it he should take it from my pocket where you like repeat it when you keep repeat it when you keep bringing it up yes. Okay here's here's here's an example -- I think. I'm not saying that the players are partially responsible -- because the building to be able to do is in the ECB negotiations I mean if it. I like in any contract that you you walk to the table. You know each -- taken away. This percent down percent it's close but there are open doors you know there there is a PayPal account of their pocket and I think -- that sort of invites this. Conversation from analysts say old gold typical give -- money because. They've they've -- as part of negotiation whatever maybe it maybe they sold one or 2% for the ability to come back and take this money later in this manner I think that's for negotiating a mark mark if -- I don't think you should ever. We've access back to count because and doesn't make it sort of a red line negotiation we don't know that you get X -- -- I think it invites this kind of conversation were fans. You know you you don't like Ndamukong -- you don't like this guy you don't like James Harris and you just his style pisses me off. You know Brandon Spikes upon -- things. So within your -- to the man's account I don't like them but I think it's been allowed four because the book kind of negotiation at the PA put out there so. We it's a little you know just in general thrust complain that happens because. Which -- -- -- -- of table we laugh at the world but in view -- a former player would you -- -- sounds like you guys would like to see some sort of council essentially BB three of where people. Ex players use the league officials and stuff to be the centers -- this is a fine this is not a -- Uga. Melissa willingly enough -- -- Henry who's gonna chaired the review of the Ndamukong -- play well for former player lenses you write lists is figuring it. How indeed it right now. Glad I'm not anymore I'm telling you because I'm looking in the paper today after games now in looking at these -- totals. And why guys are getting far. -- guidance -- I'm glad I'm not -- I'm that'll -- difference to -- that's a different argument and and I'll and I'll even kind of be on your side on that one. We're talking about a dirty -- not a hard nosed play texture here says NFL should be much like the as much like the you'll longest yard as possible loved how -- place. I'm sorry I don't clubhouse to place he said dirty player and and you guys don't respected dirty player. I mean there is a hard nosed aspect to -- for that. Here's thing if if and -- cancers being if he's playing outside the lines he has the opportunity whomever happens to be across from him. Give him back -- And I always thought I was looked at it as if -- match -- match I'm gonna do all that is offensive linemen have a chance to get back to if you can't give them natural for corporate debacle -- myself so maybe that's what -- on this side of -- argument. But I always took it is if you feel like a -- guy intentionally. Don't answer I don't know etc. don't answer I'm not -- that I think there are things where I always took the attacks which probably wouldn't be referred us to act but. If if you don't like what I'm doing you the opportunity with -- a special special teams is different that way too because you. Or the block Caroline play and then you're the guy being blocked the next. So you do you think -- outside the lines -- -- -- -- -- to do it means you can't that your -- so with Ndamukong -- is dual -- like what he's doing screw the sparing use suspend you whatever. The offense of wanna cross and the group of office of alignment have a chance to police that themselves if they can't give -- to stop so. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- But almost always the guy who retaliates to sue will get caught it it almost always happen the sister or how are we bring in of that analysis right now regarding gift. -- -- Doesn't matter and -- is -- that we the second guy always -- Just saying there -- there was even a penalty flag on so here's exactly and we was -- brought -- promise you the offensive lineman goes and tries to stall -- and so the next noticed that all of our drivers that don't but let's let's let's go back to patriots got to the twit back in 2005 Logan Mankins was 20052000. Logan Mankins got into with Ebenezer -- In debtor in brought his hand up after going back and forth and Cuba during the game epic was on a a field goal or extra point or something in brought his hand up and hit him in. You know between the likes to -- on us -- happening and he was. No he was he was like fort I don't believe he -- but he was a guy that was a situation where he was getting. Back in a situation where he felt like I was after him. That's one of those situations where again it did -- -- a guy -- the guy who was getting back it is going to be the one who's going to be flat. But no that is not a guide it week considers. Mike Hsu right now. And that's did not double -- -- -- the number one thing we think about is his previous expect he's done what he's been playing again. What has -- besides -- and that's why is being brought up more because of what he's done before. You can understand were also were obviously never gonna be on the same page in this movie -- this and that's just how it is primarily to have discussion but I I think. Or version of what thirty years thirty years pulling hair -- dirty is poking knives dirty is coming on your bench but once were -- within the lines -- limit. You're okay those things I don't know. No no no no it's a little bit not a single guy is not -- don't know -- saying kicking it's something kicking his outlook on the things that were saying about it that it development because I -- because I think kicking is probably the one of the it's kind of childish you know in the kicking things a little different. But the driver guys hadn't the ground you know given little extra former American and that's this is -- this is that this is a gladiator sport really is I mean were little more padded those -- and death on a warrant but. The little chip -- the extra shot of the things that we US players are thinking on a speaker for a moment. I would consider pushing some of the back music industries -- that -- makes him even if you have legal opportunity with me have you. So that's not the chicken as part of the chicken -- part of it is the growing in the well not and not the and just a little impact. Four I'm saying is the stuff that's a little more or. Playground stats different kicking tail that was okay this is an ox include Logan in that not only punches -- likes chicken I didn't seem to play so I don't know but. I I just know that. Our definition of dirty if dirty is just simply fighting after plays provided -- team I think that's probably the biggest thing of us were missing. The thing that's been out abouts are doing is not because I think he's a jerk -- not just to the extent of the Kurdistan that's the real component that should matter if he's doing it. So far outside the bounds the game starts cost -- penalties cares about the money out of the cost them a game already yen analysts and suspended for a game what exactly selected for conversational and Pharmacia and I would fall on the -- --