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November 15th Hot Stove Show

Nov 15, 2012|

Kirk, Rob and Alex are back again on the Hot Stove Show. This week they talk about the AL and NL MVPs, talk with Red Sox newly acquired catcher David Ross and also talk with Keoth Law of ESPN, who has some very strong opinions on the MVP voting.

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But still showed 937 WEEI curtain and and here -- rob Bradford and Alex -- we -- Half hour and will get -- half hour -- 730. David Ross new Red Sox catcher will join us. About 645 Keith law. Of ESPN. Will join us after the 7 o'clock now we find out who wins the American League MVP lot of controversy there. We'll get into that will start I guess first venture -- guys appeared this morning on the Dennis and Callahan Show some interesting stuff coming. Out of Ben. Verbally Vegas it's. Good today it was not a lot of Erica. I guess the big thing out to -- -- he was talk -- generally sit out you know I think we're going to be wanted to. Teams at the highest payroll in the major leagues this year I wonder where they are now holding going to get there without making mistakes. Well I. And that the answer is -- die if you're able to get a number of short term contracts that are nonetheless expensive then venue and a boosting the payroll considerably what they wanna do. What Ben said a number of times during that interview was. Did they want to build a contender for 2013 to doesn't get in the way of beyond two when he thirteenth on so that to me suggests. Overs overpaid guys for shorter term deals by the guys will take -- wanted to -- which is what they've done so far -- in in small sample sizes. They they overpaid Ortiz a little bit there were -- David -- a little bit. But I think we're gonna see more of it in I think that we talked about this before the interesting one may be Kuroda. As a guy -- basically once one year deal. And so who gonna give him the best one year deal. Yeah well I actually have a hypothesis on what the best one year deal for him would be it would be thought that he wants to be on the -- he's kind of on the fence about whether or not he wants to pitch more than one more season in the major leagues there are ways to structure a one year plus player option approach which would give him the complete flexibility that it would want. I'd have perhaps go back to Japan which which -- which might be the first ever one year deal with a player option. I recent memory well except for Adrian Beltre -- -- over the about it forget to athletically but you look at it appears their payrolls one. As we stand. Figure that they're probably around 9200. With all the arbitration raises. Actor so your opinion when -- thirty potentially point five but by this by EC what you're doing exactly when everyone was today lecture me. Went to a to put Josh Josh Hamilton. I everywhere audience of one though I -- but -- -- say it was nobody in terms of adding up the payroll. And try to figure out how do you get to be one of the highest payrolls in baseball when you're starting out what do you say. I would I would guess that they're between ninetieth under Billy and I haven't crunched the numbers he's okay so -- yet there. Game in my right -- my -- and that's the name the last two days not before that but just the last two days. Every once said you've got to do this because that's when -- -- well they asked him about possibility -- in -- more specifically they talked. -- Josh Hamilton fit in with your plans. You know day to. Expect the -- certainly is and -- more productive players in baseball. Beyond that we just we go look at the welfare as we have that we went over at the outfield. Somehow there. Where do literally at at least -- makes little sense for -- not to support -- particular rules or. Will you. I have a conversation -- Josh Hamilton's agent at any level I mean -- you talked to him at all. We have already there was talk. Sit by the hysteria losses are to most citizens -- process. Just about every. -- -- any harm their creators as part of our job with that. See that you don't do them in the -- So it's not. That doesn't mean anything other than we've met with a federal agents so you know all the -- Our profiler part of and some -- or profile. Created such a real part of it due diligence. I doubt -- -- commissioner also. Got to look at Florida might fit into what we're doing. And I don't know what else -- silently. Throw it on the guys that really we -- make -- also throughout. So basically return to this thing is that they talked to Hamilton's agent when I took from that is the deal is basically gone. -- -- -- is that it's in my and I miss them. You know I don't walk through the green monster from Colombia and I know that you know out -- you've advocated potentially he's looking it in Hamilton but you know if you're taking -- 456 years this guy doesn't make sense I'm short the Red Sox if -- -- true. What does discipline they will not sign -- -- I I mean -- think there I think their interest isn't nearly as great as some of the other teams and and Palestine were talking earlier and you brought up an interesting scenario which is a long ones the short term deals. Offer him -- three years thirty million a year -- Contract which I don't think he would take that says what is he 303432. Right thing at their yeah. He's an old -- every -- that means -- -- -- no I understand but you won't -- you if you try to -- got away if you -- -- you wanna get in the conversation with them. That you go down that road I don't think the Red Sox like him enough to get in that conversely. A lot of it's between three and thirty and cancer and five in 150. I mean really mean. -- it depends when you're how old you are to a certain treated it affects significantly the luxury tax implications in in years four and five of bad deal at a time when you'll probably have less payroll flexibility right there doing a front end of today I signed Josh him yes and -- Now -- Vegas I guess I'm Zack Greinke yes now so there's as much what I did or what this plan. Well that's the -- seems to -- so far and I understand me change that -- gonna do what. Right now the sitting around and wait I'm getting a -- a DH I knew they were gonna sign. Ortiz David Ross a back -- catcher who we love beef on them on a couple minutes is over -- but for that. In your brother manager but those are gonna bring and so so far right now it's very early. The play it seems to be said about things a bad plan won't say I was. I was gonna say you know you'd -- as a reminder two years ago. At this time you had to create -- in Adrian Beltre Victor Martinez who weren't signed. You were -- you have -- -- he didn't have. Carl Crawford. And also in two weeks later in the conversation is totally turned down and even three years ago when you didn't have Adrian Beltre until January or. Last year when you don't have Cody Ross until late in the offseason cycles so I think you know there and there are still a number of guys out there I think -- you know it's it's. That there is plenty of musical chairs left. And basically there's only been one there have been two notable moves Torii Hunter signing with the team that he was destined to sign with -- and in the other one being this big trade that. Kind of exaggerates. The perception of how quickly the offseason is that and that's exactly him and that's what's fascinating about what's happened here because. Literally two days ago. Josh you bring a Josh Hamilton's name around here knowing there was no touch him now. -- Blue Jays trade happens and all the -- people say you gotta do this you got to do that we have conversations about what that why aren't the acting cook. More quickly and you. I don't I want it only gets a consensus though I don't I I don't know -- you ask you to consensus but the conversation is a lot more prevalent and what I think you're right doesn't trip I think most people. You know I've heard a -- here you know comments on stuff like that. Look at the Blue Jays trade -- it -- the country the reception. You know you don't wanna pay Jose Reyes. 66 million dollars last three years of his last what was surprising about their interest and media I was stunned -- -- -- -- all right if you -- you when to put up the blog -- it are you do you think this was a wise move every IP 80% of the people -- no that is and why they've -- you know here by the -- Beers and they've learned I think a -- surprises and holidays that was. If the Red Sox were -- in the middle -- and bring in race that's surprised. It's not necessarily that much of one to me because for the next few preventive for the next few years he probably represents is -- option is going to be out there shortstop within your stock. You're stuck but it's more difficult to trade him that it was for the Marlins oh wait three years -- -- trade unless you absorb some money and beat the lesson that we're getting from the Red Sox from the Red Sox trade with the Dodgers in from the Marlins trade. With the Blue Jays is you can't move money. Major League Baseball is filthy stinking rich right now these people don't have any freaking idea. What to do with the money it's pouring out of their freaking years if they don't want to give it to Scott freaking Boras. In so you have all of a sudden. These things that look like bad contracts are still movable I don't ever -- got African Boris again because -- -- that's a great and I do nothing but otherwise -- -- -- always be talking to me not even got through that we and a bit. Putts socially or 937 might throw. Yet what are that he's not there for ever and where are where a -- -- removing MLB network side. That's about it coming at 647. We'll talk -- -- with Keith -- of ESPN and -- Dallas has an opinion rob -- -- ideally I think actually it's it's not real similar between the three of -- thank -- -- agrees with us. The question is is again it created tees there unanimity of the most exciting former radio what the thing is what we would be a thing where we all disagree with the -- actually one we'll see it out and win. David Ross at 645 right now we're talking with the Red Sox are doing with their plan is in the offseason has been quiet so far. But it's still very early we got surprised offices this is in the in the made some sense. The money that Torii Hunter got. Do you if you ask me you know three weeks ago when his contract was was going to be. A little bit I was a little bit surprised those little higher than I thought it would but it's also enters into the conversation of are the -- I can be turned away from some of these free agents who just wanna go to places where they wanna win. Because with Torii Hunter that was clearly a priority for them and if the Red Sox are in great position if this -- last offseason and the Red Sox are firm that deal with -- Ortiz there. It might be different conversation but I think that winning was a huge priority the perception of winning is a huge priority for. You don't wanna waste any years if you Torre on or near 37 years old and you may be one retire after two year deal. I'm not that surprised by the dollars I think about it said before baseball's rich right here. But I mean you're rich now -- now. But was that means departments are really race with a ready to sort alive with a Red Sox have been -- -- what. What in the cross was with that they've offered. -- two year deal that her. Eighteen million I mean you know they how close do you get -- -- I don't think the conversation ever started really really -- he said I wanna go to Detroit. And attacks by Mike. Right and then everything else was fall back yet as he had identified at the beginning of the process these of the teams that make sense for me to find deal that it works yep okay cool. What you want from the Red Sox here I think with the fans want to look at this from a -- and they -- -- and not to react. You know rationally quickly Lucchino or whoever's -- missed yesterday wasn't so much that -- gets troop gets stroke off I think I think I think they wanna look at have him look at this trade. And say listen this doesn't affect us at all what we're going to do 24 hours ago presuming wasn't -- -- We're Johnson is what we're still gonna go forward and be Smart and be disciplined I truly do believe the fans. By it and that's why I think that all but one race Greinke. Hamilton -- -- how. I heard a lot of calls on Josh Hamilton yesterday and it in in two days from now that probably will revert back to where we were before and what you're talking about. But you know I think that for that moment anyway it sent a shockwave through the fan base to say you know what. We don't wanna be left via the reality is is that. Toronto has their lineup they have the rotation they have a roster set basically your offseason virtually done right it and so and then you -- the Yankees and the Red Sox and you go through the lobby and there's holes here holes it so it's not even fair to say hey this compare that team this team there's an excellent -- on that on full count thank you. Hot stove show -- 93 several take a break we come back new Red Sox catcher David Ross will join us here. But still show on 937. David Ross in a moment first a little breaking news. The American League MVP award goes to Miguel Cabrera of the Triple Crown winner 22 of the 281 place votes in. I would say it's a mild upset. But I guess maybe not I told earlier rabbit but Cabrera went and -- occasional -- but still you know one of our ability against that. Diego Cabrera is the MVP will talk about that would keep law who is not pleased about that after the 7 o'clock hour. Bobbitt joining us right now in the AT&T hotline is the new catcher for the Boston Red Sox David Ross David it's Turkmen and Alex beer and rob Bradford Boston or you. I guess they are not. Who would you rather vote was just say -- is a Cabrera or is it true. Yeah how is listing guys like Eric I gotta go -- -- -- -- -- -- dynamic but if I kind judges as if I'm on the team and I got became a whole lot of little on the back and and it's Miguel Cabrera everything retirement. Twice on Sunday. Let's say that you're catching in either Mike Trout or Miguel Cabrera is. Is on first base -- Northern League are mindful of at that point. I'm I'm not permit to Baltimore but I am I'm not worried about you want to -- -- I thought that the one thing I feel -- opposite. David now. What would you say is your favorite memory from your first trip here in Boston what stands out from the holidays are here the first time. I was here about who might that play out we're in in eight out there for about two months right it's it's what stands. I think the atmosphere beyond trivia. -- I -- I have never been around. -- -- As a player at 28 helped you bring your -- game every night you know the fans showed up their intent may have thought it was loud. I remember that and never could get out in the bullpen help and now. You know be the third catcher and a couple box company and and it you know I I -- -- you anticipate in LA. That was pretty cool but I mean it was so loud without all in Papelbon came in Miller. They're clapping and -- the atmosphere is amazing. You miss playoff roster correct. A bit I did pick that would struggle a little bit that you're hitting in. Actually catching Wakefield. Can catch was a with a back up and had been I think all year and they've they've brought the Edmonton and luckily here I am fortunate for me they put me on compound as a third catcher and actually I had so much finalist. Is a great experience for me an alarming. It did that catch you off guard at all or do or you kind of adding it up as the days toward the playoffs are coming they. Because -- why they brought in and you know erupt and honestly that's the one thing that I have. Regained. I felt like Blackhawks advantage on the tour who really upfront honest. Just like you know. And Quito where when I was there and that feeling was really comforting so they it was kind of caught me off guard they're completely caught city but I do they brought in for reasons and and and I felt that you not felt like that that wasn't. Sure you know. This go around the Red Sox finished the season without with Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Ryan of our way splitting catching duties down the stretch. Were you expecting the Red Sox to be one of the teams in the mix for you and what have they told you about what about expectations for playing. Aram I say I get it. I didn't really have any expectations in the offseason for anything Pittman. You know by interface has Ellis thing you know -- sure -- -- if you are somewhere -- really wanna go or some great award goes out. Let's wait and see who called. There was a lot of interest a lot of teams called which was. Really humbling for me some of the teams that they call -- -- especially Red Sox and how hard they work with me so that was a really. Nice experience just to be a player and to -- you know. I'm a backup that your career realist there's a lot there was quite streaks starting job out there in in major markets and big time winning teams and then. And Boston and think the playing time is going to be from me. Just cut a split. You know I don't I don't know obviously matchups or whatever but obviously. They told me -- -- more than -- back up and down. And but I'm not going to be starter I'm not going to be catches that state a week. Which nor that's not what side their side there because of how I was treated so. And obviously they put the best for support financially to so. I'm. Really doesn't matter in the a lot of the other teams such instantly and I think he has that. And whatever role they actually did you have what does that also etiquette no about it or does it matter goes back about where. We're starting or whatever you can't get our best on the bench or one -- Slaton. On the skull and approaching them do the best site and then -- Try to help the incredible. Red Sox catcher David Ross joining us on the hot stove show you 37 David in 2011 you're part of an epic collapse with the Braves or Red Sox have similar collapse in 2011. Did not turn around 2012 you guys were able to do that Atlanta. How much credit I guess -- the manager of the players are you guys able to not have that I -- a factor ruin your season right from the start as a as a really did your -- Yeah. I don't. We go to a lot more change. In Boston the two different it was a touching that took place. And also got a new guy that they held. You guys there will be adjustments and young guys he just seemed like. From outsider perspective there's a lot of turmoil. We could have or watching -- -- -- We've added. A bench guy may be at opening guy I want the best out guardian or is that you know. We didn't have any change in manager it was the same. So we just had to look ourselves in the Bears players and and we know what I have to you know we just had that. Played baseball who wants just to play we had guys that were hurt towards in that it is a yearly collapse. And you know we just we get here obviously is simple we just that we have played better baseball you know. Everybody has a bad month it seemed like every fifteen years he has a bad -- fortunately there were other games. And I just happened to come September and until the Red Sox have been a great team they had that start at being so. You know it just one of those things that we count ourselves well here in we all got each other's back we don't care about each other -- -- the thing we never doubted whether -- -- a -- -- give a 100% then that's all you can ask for I don't think. You know education to one thing but you know as a teammate is on and I -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- To win that torture well. In after he signed looking into some of your numbers some some stood out you alluded to but you're still in controlling the running game you've got a terrific caught stealing percentage. Over the last out over the last several years. You also have I think the highest with the second highest winning percentage in the majors in games started his catcher the last a couple of years. And it as well as one of the lowest catchers CRA's of anyone in like the last fifteen years. Do those numbers mean anything to you like what is a meaningful barometer for for what kind of quality player is working behind the plate. Wins. And and you know -- it's kinda I'm sure the people of Atlanta work harder here and from -- but the date that play I try to get Brian McCann. A breeder I'd want him in the game I want him to relax and knew we needed him. -- if it would level at a World Series which is the goal. But we needed him to be healthy arm to make acceptable push Michael -- played throughout the year was let me win today is all we got the -- -- -- It and I don't like him get pinch hit for a mark on -- about the game and how to get -- that car try that. You know has had him warm up and need to go in the -- -- try to get it -- -- You know whatever so my my goal every day after he still. You know whatever I can do to a team win whether it ought to run I know that the National League. More mentality is some money in Iran but I I'll do the same -- I don't care I try to play good defense. I wanna get the most out of a starting pitcher actually pitcher like that are. I've brother you know I'm a local. I care trying to -- I think it's like a battle between us to burst their whole lineup. And that's -- of their trajectory. And I care you know I get mad. Where and when they get it up because I feel like target and you know -- if they fail so. You know that's -- that's. You know to get inside my head that's how I think in I don't know there's a robbery you know what your backup catcher. You eat you'd you'd you don't get exposed as much as. They're just starting catchers are like numbers -- you know you're able to get there and and call a different game -- and be back. I can't get a great job too so. That they we just start -- each other and I was it would benefit from. Hewitt said that there were other teams contrast to his probably tough choice for you to make. When John Farrell get hired as manager of the Red Sox. Did that in solely go on your radar as hey you know what that's a drawing -- potential drawing card -- government coming here. Well he he called -- at least -- call and talk to me answer that band and I think just -- him. Sister here. Interest in me and where they want it to just take -- team and and other want to get factor. Was when I was here in 08 which are looked at. And and just. You know what quality guys quality tower and -- you know just to hear the way they talked about. The game was reassuring me that that's the same way I think him we all went away and then I'll get on the same page and everybody kind of working together. The whole year to a tour to a ball game. -- talk to rent and -- had quality player but they talked what the plan because that's something we've debated here for awhile people talking about it venture to some of the planned. They specific I mean in terms of what. Now I really just talking about terms of you know we like equality talent with quality people and I think that that's the recipe for success you know you know it's he'd he'd say. It and this is just. And Utley -- Josh Hamilton has a great person but it just to say Josh Hamilton down on the market. And yet he's remained without their this year exactly the with the with the successor as leader you know maybe the best. That got a like a person or respect -- the soccer player or you know just the replication of the game. Particularly considerations that is going out get -- the best person I think that is a huge huge. Important peacefully especially when you're talking about. The difference between you know -- a player. And that topic that count the players it's a good person and a leader except for example -- played hard every day. And you know we'll play through play -- -- -- things are -- went. You know will grind it out and you know nobody want screen you know -- now when they're just you know. Kind of heard or whatever you -- there's these big club -- all that does happen and sometimes an eight at. One person is better than a 100% of another so just those kind of people that I don't care about winning -- about. Winning baseball I think that was -- -- Methodist that I -- to Auburn. Yes I would already have floor occurred because floor. Okay you're not Auburn football fan you know when you want he's got paper bags and your heads down there weren't or aren't sure are happy Auburn -- ordered the right idea I don't know you can't do it that's here now that's a bad sports and -- can't -- that. Today. I think it'll work out often -- because he thought leeway -- also got out of college guy has got all the professional sports Sergio loves. I'll Bobby ability every Kevin Cash actually Texans and told you that you are fraudulent Florida State fan so. And I don't know. I waiver away are you guys -- definitions. Elite a monitor yesterday that's an honest later okay but -- there -- -- there. Our our bandwagon and everyone's so I didn't we appreciate your time thanks a lot. Guys like to talk idiotic here. It it's David rusty Red Sox catcher that's -- at the sports. Well if if Florida. I mean it's Florida it's beyond it was and they -- not not the best sports fans call -- took -- his art course. Well -- I I honestly I I think that the idea of allegiance and loyalty is drastically overrated. On that you've you've you've exhibited that many times now expect it to. I break every comeback after the break Keith law of ESP and we'll talk about the MVP vote would term controversial Miguel -- Triple Crown winner. Knocks off Mike from -- -- twenty to 21 place votes the ball Boston voters went throw. Went for. Was shot academy and Tim -- -- is Saarloos states it. Tim -- first that the people ordered not to go through puberty that's unbelievable accomplishment. He bought after the break but still showing 937 WE I would get to -- on a minute talk about the MVP which went to Miguel Cabrera comfortably. In his look at the BB WA a has. The ballots -- to the nod to Robby you run their last night you vote for the site on congratulations thanks but I -- honest. I would I look at these guys -- the guys that you. You hang out what you mean there are so some of these guys is so stupid -- believe this right of the pin on the desk reference mark Gonzales of the Chicago Tribune who. I imagine is not impaired mentally. Voted Derek Derek Jeter who why you know brings a great player. Third the American League MVP well well nobody has got to -- plays -- and that's that's the best the second. Boris -- -- we all agreed that first one was Shell Shell walker -- -- Shell shocker of Cleveland in the plain dealer Cleveland plain view he's that he voted Beltre certainly Akron beacon to our UK job voted I'll hold this. He's old unit thing is yet -- as hard as Wagner Beltre I can do that you know he's -- voted Beltre second over Trout. So out to -- not happen I mean it's not a matter of not happy I just think -- I just want to get this off my chest has been on my chest. I think the Triple Crown is kind of stupid and with that on the epic may agree with you. Chief lobbyist the end keep its Berkman and -- spear rob Bradford or you triple. What was your. You know I thought he did it was gonna be close I did not mean I figured I still thought there was that sort of older wings would vote for Cabrera just by default but. Were you stunned -- twenty two's next. Now I have no expectations for the baseball writers' association. It's an insular group the older group. In big misses a group that has. Want it for years to try to limit. Who get into the retired right they wanna let me -- Ireland a couple of years ago they gave -- -- a hard time making it. They denied SB nation that you guys part time. But guy getting a bill Madden who this organization put in the hall of fame with the spank award. Yet to get his head around the on the radio that -- decent website read in a radio station about how up to speed. This group that you can say this with this really wise way. Well one of the final gasps but just the whole dying philosophy if you've got a situation you're really audiences smarter than somebody the people that they're reading. And if you're gonna look at -- Now -- in years to compensate. Packed with wall with these people have a big not see that Mike Trout with the more valuable player that these people these voters are saying note on how we are the guardian of information. You must continue to look at again that we watched a look at it you know the industry that we cover. Look Sadat and big twelve moron because they -- white -- the more able player. But again they're trying to -- you people trying to protect their job to protect their status as guardians of information even though they could hope that this is passing them by. -- -- isn't as simple as if Mike Trout and hit for point higher than Miguel Cabrera he'd be the MVP. I yeah that's right Hamilton hit two more all right -- that simple as. Yeah I think so I think that David Ortiz should I should demand a recount of the 2005 MVP voting but he lost to Iraq at this point. Yeah yeah and it is beat the Triple Crown but playoff there but the other thing. If the White Sox don't fold or the Tigers Angels were simply different divisions they switched division. At the intellectual one more game and they put much tougher schedule. But the Tigers made the playoffs Cabrera carried it into the playoffs and we didn't come Paul what to watch a baseball game every now and then. Follow it season this is not an individual sport this is the end yet. Well one player can really take a team from eighteen wins one year at forty for the next. That single -- to have that kind of impact in baseball and Cabrera carried the team just sort of ignores that. Austin Jackson Prince Fielder Justin Verlander Max Scherzer or have pretty good season. Which is worse he's our guys obviously feel very strongly by the Cabrera thing but putting Beltre and it's -- -- which is which is the worst transgression in your mind. It just as I said one on one. Putting Trout anywhere but first with bad putting him third is really indefensible. There was a boulder in Detroit who I think had left and no off. -- ballot entirely. Somebody cabana is tenth in the future yeah I don't was summit Jeter third I mean it is look at it and it just seems to be. Just a rash of mistakes but I mean -- You know what what criteria are you using this shouldn't I mean I've voted note in the fourth time I've voted on the award -- -- NL for me. Ever taken very seriously I think there's an obligation to take -- seriously to try to do that kind of objectively and to me that means. It's spending some time going through the best statistics that we got available measuring performance and I think it felt like that -- what you what you whenever. Do you think rode on it was the tenth most valuable player. In the American League this year what are you picking names out of how. There's no rational thought process behind this is like somebody realized that the ballot was he went five minutes just fired up and email would have named Pete he picked at random. Who was that whom who put the -- ten looked on low. I don't know the media -- I -- some of these writers I don't look for a talker I know the name I know he's another he's a seasonal. Yeah therapy what they were younger right in the -- -- Minnesota student's locker. Yeah Africa area -- how well policies you know or -- they opened Cabrera both both Boston voters -- -- good for us -- not a -- -- colleges they're well educated and. He's an operator Matt Bryant and half. You'd be surprised the of the -- it is high school curriculum is changing by the minute but in terms so a lot of people obviously reduce it to this idea that Cabrera has impacted the batter's box was so great that that's why he was the guy ahead of Trout. Who do you think was the better hitter just you know whose office who made the greater offensive impact -- side of the batter's box out. I thought -- and certainly tried to leave the ball easier missed three weeks because the Angels were busy trying to pretend that Vernon Wells with the biggest waste of money in the American League this year. Travel with a much more dangerous hitter overall. If you factoring in what he did when he got on base we got on base so that actually that very slightly higher clip and Cabrera it. This year Cabrera had an edge in power. So who would you explain -- he has more power so which is explained by. Play the better hitters park and played much -- competition this year but still you can edge in the power department. But -- on base just -- what Cabrera did and did substantially more damage when he was actually. On base and if they were both been neutral environments in terms of ballpark and competition. Erupted at that point where it looked extremely similar even if Cabrera had the slightest of edges there. Travel which is an overwhelming once you start looking at defense is based. It is kind of amazing to my mind when you in just looking at the base running thing throughout a very like simple lends. Why is it that Miguel Cabrera is on base more than Mike Trout by a number of times. And yet scored twenty fewer runs despite the fact that he had Prince Fielder hitting behind him. If indeed he runs like the statue of liberty league that can giving Cabrera home from first take about foreseen. You know like David sarcastically yet. The speed doesn't actually matter in terms of value delivered Trout delivered it -- the more value on the basis want to read base stealing. Stole 49 -- -- 54 which is. Our hope well over the threshold from between 7075%. You get over that mark -- helping the team. But also just -- ability he spoke first and third to score from second on a base hit to score from second on you know. He it would not quite Billy Hamilton territory here but you know -- -- second on a sac fly to score from first on. A double that wouldn't score the majority of hitters whereas. Cabrera on the other -- the station to station and over the course of the season. It's a handful of runs in either direction but the difference between these 21 of the fastest guys who lead and one of the slowest. Was really substantial such as -- base running numbers show that in the defensive numbers as well. In talking note of voters are 'cause tired of people -- do you think their defense is valued enough when voting for the sword. Voters missed it twice because they admit the value of position. Center -- the proper position and played third base stopped by a huge amount but it's a little bit tougher. And they don't value defense properly but not a surprise -- it for a long time this was simply the most RBIs. What it by if you if you just take the time the read the description it is not set in stone but we beat the three description of the award. There is defense there is games played which you know obviously works a little bit of against probably gentleman with him that yet. Yes that's true that the army we worry before I think -- was based united hasn't changed since 1932. So -- to take that agrees saying you can only white rights and that I don't know. Yeah I just. Of him as -- -- and keep -- -- joining us here on a hot stove show Q1 of the arguments against -- by the people doing it is. A game on September 18 means more than a game -- you and eight. Right which is wrong. Raikkonen and having an operation acquire if you look at the standings there's no double counting of games since September. And actually I don't know I don't really like going down this particular rabbit hole anyway but. Miguel Cabrera in the last twelve games of this season came against the twins in the hole. At a point when the White Sox or implode. So you could argue that became he played right at the very end. Became increasingly irrelevant whereas the Angels I don't think were eliminated probably should days left in this season maybe bring. So every game Trout plays in September. Was extremely important and by the way cop played absolutely fine in August and September get 387 on base over the last two months. Which I don't believe me arbitrary end points thank you gotta look at the entire season and not highlight certain monitors certain weeks we -- certain days. But there has been the argument that what -- faded down the stretch you know we didn't he actually played great continue to steal bases play great defense. He get on base which of the three things he does extremely well both what you did see here with a fairly concerted campaign by these old cart media members. -- you. Created narrative around Cabrera that also. Included degrading Trout performance. Even if the fact did not support claiming that trial wasn't good at the end of the season claiming that the Angels weren't as good as the Tigers all of these things -- were false but became part. Of the Cabrera legend. Part of the reason keep -- -- to Triple Crown is stupid is because it essentially. Identifies three stats -- all -- the same thing you know. Home runs -- good hitter average you're a good hitter RBIs are good hitter congratulations on identifying three variations on a team. Yeah a lot of home runs and you know what -- -- gone -- the Astros beat the Astros have forty home run hitter in the middle lineup he would out of probably not a lead the league in RBIs in RBIs they just to get guys on base but in general hit forty home runs are gonna have a 110 or so RBIs and maybe more. Just depending on the base who's on base in front you're sort of double counting. But at that point out that I regret that very in this season. What the Triple Crown include is batting average home runs RBIs would it doesn't include. Our walks. Hit batsman sac fly to all actual events that have value particularly walk. Stolen bases and everything that goes along with base running doubles and triples don't access the counted exactly same as Singleton and the Triple Crown. Defense position ballpark competition none of those things come into Triple Crown. Where. The people that make people think -- me on Twitter Triple Crown covers the three most important off but the statistics. You must have the worst understanding of baseball if you think that those three statistics. Are the most important what you do anything close to a complete picture of the sport. Granting that. If people identified those three you know people there are people who obviously identified those three is defining stats in the fact that Cabrera to lead all so sure that the the fact that Cabrera look you know won the Triple Crown was identified as this historically. Significant event that hadn't occurred in generations. What's the case for who is they're not a case I guess you know I'm curious for your perspective. Was this a kind of transcendence. You know a puck all season by. By Trout did it doesn't deserve. You know some kind of historic consideration for a cabinet and. It's one that it beat the arguably the greatest rookie season in history. The first rookie to go. Well what was it 3030 you've reached third he'd get a chance to -- third set right and that. Was caught stealing a couple of times that and where at least once or twice that final series went it was clear that the Eagles were out of it it's. It's just well. Track and run much -- he wants at this point. No matter how you like it would you go by each goal by rookie status it was. One of the greatest seasons in baseball history it wide. I believe the Hyatt went above replacement in ten hitters since Barry Bonds who carry them -- got along with his perform. So what they bond out of the equation you're going back even further to find a season with -- much impact and it would impact in all areas just as much total impact. As Trout was able have. This year and for that it'd be ignored by the voters is that it's willful ignorance we are not going to look at defense would not look at -- running. We're gonna stick our head in the sand and just look at. What -- on the back of old time baseball. You -- we're all surprised him the -- it turned out this way but before a half hour ago fortify moments ago. What was your prediction in terms of how this was gonna shake out how many first place Sosa trial where -- gotten certainly not six -- I thought Cabrera who would win and it wouldn't be that close. In particular because it's the other way that the voting the points are trying to fourteen for first place vote. Not for a second and then you can just go down one at that -- lines and even if Trout with second. -- -- Every other ballot where you -- first it would still in terms of point it was still a look like a landslide -- Cabrera got the majority of first place which is what I expect. If you get -- remember this morning and they said. Eighteen to twenty for Cabrera instead of -- 22 you thought there'd be a little bit more common sense out there but like it got to come into this with very low expectations. For these awards and we seem more rational results in the Cy Young award the people finally walking away at least a little bit from pitcher wins. But the MVP award looks like it's going to be the last one to fall and Natalie and fall before the hall of -- starts to get mark. People ask questions from me here I guess I'm not really short taking everything account and if you had a vote for -- on BP would have been for Trout or for Cabrera. Outburst and I would have brought it now. Back and really met him over Cabrera and over but -- tennis -- Cabrera I mean did a tremendous season. Hit two undefeated he thinks that they're basically because that things sort of hoped Cabrera supporter want to talk about pokey was fine at third base only wasn't -- the -- -- hit the ball right at them. And it basically founded -- That he could throw he's he's got a good -- but -- brutal start he was brutal if Parcells that he wouldn't it wasn't a good third baseman the first time in jail he's heavier. But he was the last time he tried to pay to play the position where it canal. I mean I -- some comments on connote two -- he's lazy he doesn't try which is. Unfortunately something to see how lot of Latino players in and night. Yeah maybe it was why you never hear. -- -- -- -- -- -- You know he's it was white he'd be scrappy and how can he be thinking I think I don't think -- you know -- The least bit lazy he's a good defensive second baseman next to his great credit to you what one when he first came up. And get a great offenses he's he played slightly tougher position positioning Cabrera did anything much tougher competition over the course this season. You could argue that can -- get help from the ballpark and and if somebody said not Cabrera at second over canal. I'm fine with that those two that were pretty close and leads to a canal the -- with Trout in the gigantic gap. Before you got anybody. He won one time remaining Sam -- and change gonna come hang in there -- I swear to you it's it's going to happen slow. You know what Cabrera when he -- get my -- I get it -- that's true that's true that's how works or page views. Thanks keep my instincts keep by ESP -- -- of a couple minutes here I guess any lingering thoughts out and you think the Triple -- the stupid. That being said there are guys who have had way worse seasons Cabrera was one. Yeah I'd I've the one thing I don't want to be confused with the same -- Cabrera didn't have a great season because he did he is a great hitter I love watching the guy in the batter's box he's basically. He is he's what Manny Ramirez was for his seasons of greatness. By you know that doesn't mean that he's the best player in the American League. I just wish I if there were traditional stats I just don't know why runs weren't factored into the equation because then. -- for the Triple Crown because then things would look awfully to would you agree that we talked about before that as stubborn as the the old school. Crew is the civil metrics air in the car equally stubborn in their inflexible as well the game. I don't yet know that there's no question demands of the example I always -- desired IQ you remember who won despite. There was someone saying hey you know what you never bunt even with the pitcher up first and second and nobody outs in the ninth inning tie game. And obviously I don't agree with that but. Yet and I think money ball was they would that would kind of set everything off and everyone taking sides digging in got a little bit better I think but it. Number one key flaw I think one of the things that he was emphasizing was the only value defense enough. Forget about all the Saber metric stats that voters just don't value defense enough and I agree with that. The thing is is that what David Ross said to us before which was. You asked him who would you vote for and he's a -- -- tell you that wouldn't Cabrera is up he's the most feared hitter in the game. That's a guy Joseph rice argument but but I think that some of these voters honestly say Triple Crown who would I -- up at the plate. That's it. I think that that's their argument. And out in bit cross the players are going to be voting by the a lot of players feel that way and a lot of the players are educated today you know what this is how the voting where you voted voted for the site via pay one what was the process along you -- with -- ballot. Or sleep at that Bellamy every undoing if -- -- rest of it. All the -- yourself and a lot on the process. Yeah health of the B I think that when you know you of the vote you kind of keep tabs on. What you're looking at me that way you -- Yeah Bentley -- finger of -- time you can keep tabs on as is going on and rent. That I sit next Alex yankees debut at the last here here for Atlanta which like both Clark. But it's it's then the answer became clear. He had it way it was with -- and I vote for Verlander but the for number one and I think in Alex pointed this out to me as well as he pitched a lot more. And he was just has to just give them more innings for the business and -- what we forty more relieved Weaver was not like 189 innings and over. Remember about the number of strike out there is to -- up artist stated Verlander -- was -- -- -- outrageous miscarriage of justice are you angry not angry about a lot -- -- cool. What makes the keep law and two we have the Ross thanks we're going to be on next week when people are doing -- People you know Thanksgiving table if people are doing I always -- -- said we'll do shoot -- you may not have it have a good joke are committed to. It's all week hot stove show in 937. NFL Thursday night FC east battle. Buffalo Miami next. I don't know why I brought them -- it. So next Rondo out tonight -- that -- about tonight's Celtics nets in Brooklyn next features cover.

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