Nov 15, 2012|
Keith Law joins the Hot Stove guys and talks (rants) about what an archaic group the BBWAA is, how the Triple Crown is overrated and how ridiculous MVP voting can be.
Transcript - will not be 100% accurate
But still -- 937 WE I would get that he thought a minute talk about the MVP which went to Miguel Cabrera comfortably. In his look at the BB WA a has. The ballots which they used to not do -- you -- their last night you vote for the site on congratulations thanks but I honest I would I look at these guys -- the guys that you. You hang out -- you mean there are so some of these guys is so stupid some believe this regular pat on the desk reference mark Gonzales of the Chicago Tribune who. I imagine is not impaired mentally. Voted Derek Derek Jeter who why you know brings a great player. Third the American League MVP well well nobody has got that plays well that's that's that's the second. Boris ones having we all agreed that first one was Shell Shell walker -- shot -- of Cleveland we in the plain dealer -- -- yeah he's that he voted Beltre certainly Akron beacon to our UK job voted I'll hold this. He's old unit continues yes -- as hard as Wagner Beltre and do that you know he's I voted Beltre second over Trout. So -- you -- not happy I mean it's not a matter of not happy distinctive dot I just want to get this off my chest has been on my chest. I think the Triple Crown this kind of -- and with that on the Olympic may agree with -- people obviously and keep its Berkman and Alex or rob Bradford or you triple. What was your you know I thought -- -- it was going to be close I did not I mean I figured I still thought there was that sort of older -- would vote for Cabrera just by default but. Were you -- he set 22 cents -- Now I have no expectations for the baseball writers' association. It's been insular group of older group. In big receiver that has. Wanted for years to try to limit. Who get into that protect the right they wanna let me brought a higher and a couple years ago they -- and perhaps a hard time they gave. They denied SB nation and the did you guys part time. Back guy getting -- bill -- -- this organization put in a hall of fame with the -- award. -- to get his head around the on the radio the radio -- website -- -- in a radio station and that's how up to speed. -- group that you consider this what this really wise was. Well one of the final -- But just to hold dying philosophy if you've got a situation you really audiences smarter than somebody the people that they're reading and if you're gonna look at that. Now -- in years to compensate. Heck was wrong with these people had they not see the Mike Trout with the more valuable player but these people these voters are saying about how we are the guardian of information. You must continue to look at the game that we want to look at it in -- industry that we cover. Look at us and big twelve morons because they all know -- trial was more able player. But again they're trying to beat you people trying to protect their job to protect their status as guardians of information even though they could hope that this -- -- by. Ortiz isn't as simple as if Mike Trout and hit for points higher than Miguel Cabrera he'd be the MVP. I get -- right now hit more home right -- that simple as I'd accept. Yeah I think that David Ortiz should I should demand a recount of the 2005 MVP voting but he lost to Iraq at this point. Yep yep and they beat the Triple Crown but playoff merit but the other thing. If the White Sox don't fold where the Tigers and Angels were simply different division they switched division. At the intellectual one more day. And they put a much tougher schedule. But the Tigers made the play out Cabrera carried it into the playoffs and we didn't come Paul what to watch a baseball game every now and then. Follow it season this is not an individual sport this is the India where one player can really -- -- from eighteen wins one year at forty for the next. Well that and the players have that kind of impact in baseball and Cabrera carried the team just sort of ignored that. Austin Jackson Prince Fielder Justin Verlander Max Scherzer or have pretty good season. Which is worst these guys obviously feel very strongly about the Cabrera thing but putting Beltre and -- -- Which is which is the worst transgression in your mind. -- just as I said one on one. Putting Trout anywhere but first -- bad putting him third is really indefensible. There was a boulder in Detroit who I think had left and no -- Is ballot entirely. Somebody had to -- his tenth and then -- get -- -- -- -- was -- -- third I mean it is look at it and it just seems to be. Just a rash of mistakes but I mean -- You know what what criteria are you using this is I mean I've voted note in the fourth and a quarter -- an award it's always been an alchemy. Ever taken very seriously I think there's an obligation to take this seriously to try to do that kind of objectively and to me that -- It spending some time going through the best statistics that we got available from measuring performance and I -- felt like that went what you what you whenever. Do you think -- about it was the tenth most valuable player. In the American League this year what are you picking names out of a hack. There's no rational thought process behind this is like somebody realized that the ballot was -- five minutes just fired -- an email with ten named Pete he picked Iran. Who -- whom who put the bunt and Stan a lot Don -- I don't know -- -- you know I know some of these writers I don't talk a little talk I know the name I know he's another he's a seasonal. Yeah therapy what they were younger right at the bell -- Minnesota is reflector. Yeah Africa area how well policies you know or -- they -- Cabrera both both Boston voters vote -- good for us -- not a lot of colleges they're well educated and. It's -- he's an operator Matt Bryant and half. You'd be surprised the of the -- it in high school curriculum is changing by the minute -- in terms so a lot of people obviously reduce it to this idea that Cabrera has impact in the batter's box was so great that that's why he was the guy ahead of Trout. Who do you think was the better hitter just you know whose office who may -- greater offensive impact incentive batter's box out. I thought trapped and certainly tried to leave the ball -- -- -- -- missed three weeks because the Angels were busy trying to pretend that time while with the biggest waste of money in the American League this year. Trial with a much more dangerous hitter overall. If you factoring in what he did once he got on base and got on base so that actually that very slightly higher clip -- Cabrera it. This year Cabrera had an edge in power. Some -- which is explained by he has more power so which is explained by. Played better hitters park and played much -- competition this year but still you can edge in the power department. But -- got on base just as well Cabrera did and did substantially more damage. What he was actually on base and if they were both been neutral environments in terms of ballpark and competition. Erupted at that point where it looked extremely similar even if Cabrera had -- the slightest of edges there. Track which is an overwhelming once you start looking at defense is based. It is kind of amazing to my mind when you in just looking at the base running thing throughout a very like simple -- Why is it that Miguel Cabrera is on base more than Mike Trout by a number of times. It yet scored twenty fewer runs despite the fact that he had a Prince Fielder hitting behind him. If we can keep you run like the statue of liberty you good -- getting Cabrera home from first take about forcing them. You know like David sarcastically yet. -- -- doesn't actually matter in terms of value delivered Trout delivered since -- been more value on the basis want to -- base stealing. Stole 49 had a 54 which is. A couple well over the threshold somewhere between 775%. You get over that mark you're helping the team. But also just dropped ability to he spoke first and third to score from second on a base hit to score from second on I had you know. He it would not quite Billy Hamilton territory here but you know potentially score the second on a sac fly to score from first on. A double that would score the majority of hitters whereas. Cabrera on the other hand the station to station and over the course of the season. It's a handful of runs in either direction but the difference between these 21 of the fastest guys who lead and one of the slowest. Was really substantial such as the the base running numbers show that in the defensive numbers as well. And talk you know voters are 'cause tired of people based do you think their defense is valued enough when voting for the sword. Now clearly. -- voters missed it twice because they admit the value of position. Center -- the proper position to play third base stopped by a huge amount but it's a little bit tougher. And they don't value defense properly that's not a surprise rate this for a long time this was simply the most RBIs. What it by. If you if you just take the time the read the description it is not set in stone but beat the the the read the description of the award in his defense there is games played which you know obviously works little bit of against probably gentleman with him that -- Yes that's true that at army we wearing it before I think it was based ignited hasn't changed since 1932. So you have to take that agreed saying -- only white rights and that I don't know. Yeah I Josh gives him as -- 93 and keep Fabius the end joining us here on a hot stove show Q1 of the arguments against trial by the people doing it is. A game on September 18 means more than a game in -- 8. Right which is wrong. Like it and I mean an opportune -- if you look at the standings there's no double counting -- game since September. And actually I don't know I don't really like going down this particular radical anyway but. Miguel Cabrera last twelve games of the season came against the twins in the hole. An appointment a White Sox -- implode. So you could argue that became he played right up until the very end. Became increasingly irrelevant whereas the Angels I don't think we're eliminated all the -- days left in this season maybe bring. So every game -- played September. Was -- extremely important and by the way cop played it absolutely fine in August and September get 387 on base over the last two months. Which I don't believe me arbitrary end points thank you gotta look at the entire season -- highlight certain monitors certain weeks we have certain days. But there has been the argument that what -- faded down the stretch -- we didn't he actually played great continue to steal bases play great defense. He get on base which of the three things he does extremely well both what you did see here with a fairly concerted campaign by these old cart media members. -- you. Created narrative around Cabrera that also. Included degrading Trout performance. Even if the fact did not support it claiming the crowd wasn't good at the end of the season claiming that. The Angels weren't as good as the Tigers all of these things were what fault but became part of the Cabrera -- Part of the reason keep why I think -- Triple Crown as stupid -- because it essentially. Identifies three stats that all -- the same thing you know. Home runs -- good hitter average you're a good hitter RBIs are good hitter congratulations on identifying three variations on a team. Yeah a lot of home runs and you know what you're playing on the Astros beat the Astros -- forty home run hitter than all the lineup he would out of probably not likely -- -- RBIs in -- be activated to get guys on base but in general hit forty home runs are gonna have a 110 restore the guy and maybe more. Just depending on the base who's on base in front you're sort of double -- Let you know they point out that I wrote about the very end of the season. What the Triple Crown include his batting average home runs RBIs it's what it doesn't include. All our walks. Hit batsman that applies to all actual events that have value particularly walks. Stolen bases in everything that goes along with base running doubles and -- don't access the counted exactly the same as Singleton and the Triple Crown. Defense position ballpark competition none of those things come into Triple Crown. Where the people that make people think to me on Twitter Triple Crown covers the three most important off the statistics you must have the worst understanding of baseball. If you think that those three statistics. Are the most important will -- you anything close to a complete picture of the sport. Granting that. If people identified those three you know people there are people who obviously identified those three is defining stats in the fact that Cabrera -- -- -- short of the the fact that Cabrera look you know won the Triple Crown was identified as this historically. Significant event that hadn't occurred in generations -- What's the case for who is they're not a case I guess you know I'm curious for your perspective. Was this the kind of transcendence. You know a -- all season by. By Trout did it doesn't deserve. You know some kind of historic consideration for opening -- It's one of it beat the arguably the greatest rookie season in history. The first rookie to go. Well what was it 3030 he reached third he got a chance to -- third set right and that was caught stealing a couple of times that think when least once or twice that. Finals series went it was clear that the Eagles were out of it it's just well. Track and run but that he wants at this point. No matter how you slice it with the go by each goal by rookie status it was. One of the greatest seasons in baseball history is wide. I believe the Hyatt went above replacement -- -- -- -- since Barry Bonds who carry some. -- along with his perform. So -- bond out of the equation you're going back even further define a season with as much impact that would impact in all areas just as much total impact. As -- would be able have. This year and prevented to be ignored by the voters is that it's willful ignorance we are not going to look at defense we're not gonna look at page running. We're gonna stick our head in the sand and just look at. What was on the back of old time baseball. Do you Gary we're all surprised him the -- it turned out this way but before -- a half hour ago fortify moments ago. What was your prediction in terms of how this is gonna shake out how many first place Sosa trial -- -- gotten certainly not six -- -- match. I thought Cabrera would win and it wouldn't be back. It particularly if it's the other way that the voting the pointer signed its fourteen for first place vote -- for a second and then you can't just go down one. As you go down the line -- even if Trout with second. Line. Every other ballot where he wasn't first it would still in terms of point it was still gonna look like a landslide Cabrera got the majority of first place which is what I expected. Pete -- and remember this morning and they said. ET the twenty for Cabrera instead of 22. But these awards and we seem more rational results in the Cy Young award -- people finally walking away at least a little bit from pitcher wins. But the MVP award looks like it's going to be the last one to fall and Natalie and fall before the hall of pain starts to get mark. People ask questions from me here I guess I'm not really short taking everything account and if you had had a vote for -- on BP would have been for Trout or for Cabrera. Proud person like -- would have brought it out back and really -- over Cabrera and over but in fairness though Keith Cabrera I mean that's tremendous season. You're trying to see if he thinks that there are basically the that the things sort of hoped Cabrera supporters want to talk about how he was fine at third base only wasn't -- the colored ball hit the ball right at them. And it basically -- glove that he could throw he's he's got a good arm but -- brutal -- he was little if Parcells that he wouldn't it wasn't a good third baseman the first time. And now he's heavier. But he was the last time he tried to -- played the position where at canal. Mean I thought some comments on connote two well you know he's lazy he doesn't try which is. Unfortunately something to see a whole lot of Latino players -- and I. Yeah maybe was why you never hear a -- ever ever get -- that are here. You know he's if he was white he'd be -- and how can he be deeper either I don't think -- you know it. The least bit lazy he's a good defensive second baseman it's to his great credit that he wasn't one when he first came up. And he had a great offenses he's he played slightly tougher position positioning Cabrera did anything much tougher competition over the course this season. You could argue that can now get help from the ballpark and and if somebody -- -- Cabrera at second over canal. I'm fine without those two that were pretty close and leans -- canal -- it would Trout in the gigantic gap. Before you got anybody. He won one time a man named Sam -- and change gonna come hang in there -- I swear to -- it's it's going to happen it's. Well you know what Cabrera when he -- provided I get keeper that's true that's true that's how works or page views. Thanks keep up my pleasure thanks thanks -- by ESP and joins us.