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November 15th Hot Stove Show

Nov 15, 2012|

Kirk, Rob and Alex are back again on the Hot Stove Show. This week they talk about the AL and NL MVPs, talk with Red Sox newly acquired catcher David Ross and also talk with Keoth Law of ESPN, who has some very strong opinions on the MVP voting.

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But still showed 937 WEEI Turkmen and here at rob Bradford and Alex -- we hear. Half hour in about half hour at least 730. David Ross -- Red Sox catcher will join us. About 645 keep law. A BS PN. Will join us after the 7 o'clock now we find out who wins the American League MVP lot of controversy there. We'll get into that will start I guess first venture into guys appeared this morning on the Dennis and Callahan Show some interesting stuff coming. Out of -- Verbally yes its. -- it was -- That Erica. I guess the big thing oxygen goes he was talked with literally sit out you know I think we're going to be wanted to. He's the highest payroll in the major leagues this year I wonder where they are now holding going to get there without making mistakes. Well I. And that the answer is did die if you're able to get a number of short term contracts that are nonetheless expensive then venue and a boosting the payroll considerably what they wanna do. What Ben said a number of times during that interview was. Did they want to build a contender for 2013 to doesn't get in the way of beyond two when he thirteenth -- so that to me suggests. Overs overpaid guys for shorter term deals by the guys will take two which is which is what they've done so far -- in in small sample sizes. They they overpaid Ortiz a little bit there were paid David Ross a little bit. But I think we're gonna see more of it in I think that we talked about this before the interesting one may be corona. As a guy who basically wants a one year deal. And so who gonna give him the best one you deal. Yeah well I actually have a hypothesis on what the best one year deal for him would be it would be thought that he wants to be on the heat he's kind of on the fence about whether or not he wants to -- more than one more season in the major leagues there are ways to structure a one year plus player option approach which would give him the complete flexibility that it would want. -- to perhaps go back to Japan which which -- which might be the first ever one year deal with a player option. I recent memory well except for Adrian Beltre BO -- over the about it forget that but everybody look at it appears their payrolls one. As we stand. Figure that they're probably around nine the 200 with all the arbitration raises. Acronyms so your -- -- thirty -- -- -- but but this by EC what you're doing exactly when everyone was today lecture me. Went to a -- Josh Josh Hamilton. I everywhere audience of one might not say it was nobody in terms of adding up the payroll. And try to figure out how do you get to be one of the highest payrolls in baseball when you're starting out what do you say. I would I would guess that they're between nine you know hundred billion I haven't crunched the numbers recently OK so Heidi yet there. Game in my right -- my -- and that's the name the last two days not before that but just the last two days. Every once and you gotta do this because that's the well they asked him about possibility Josh and -- -- -- more specifically they talked. -- Josh Hamilton fit in with your plans. You know day to. Expect the tower -- is and -- more productive players and -- all. Beyond that we just Leo look at what. Welfare as we that we went over at the outfield. Somehow. Where do literally at least -- makes little sense for -- not to support their little or. Will you. I have a conversation -- Josh Hamilton's agent and any level I mean -- you talked to him at all. We have already there was talk. Since by -- -- Two most citizens we process. Just about battery. -- any -- creators as part of part that. See that you don't -- them in the Buick. So it's not. That doesn't mean anything other than we've met with the federal agents so you know all the service. Our profile our partners and some -- or profile. Created such as real part of it due diligence. I doubt -- -- commission also. Got to look at Florida might fit into what we're doing. You know I'll sit silently. Arrow there on the -- really we've they'll make -- also throughout. So basically return to this thing is that they talked to Hamilton's agent when I took from that is the deal is basically gone. Are packed app is that it's in my and I miss them. You know I don't walk through the green monster tomorrow -- be and I noted you know -- -- you've advocated potentially he's looking it in Hamilton but you know if you take 456 years this guy doesn't make sense I'm short the Red Sox if they're true. But this discipline they will not site. No I I mean I'll think there I think their interest isn't nearly as great as some of the other teams and and Palestine were talking earlier and you brought up an interesting scenario which is a long -- the short term deals. Offer from the three years thirty million a year CNET. Contract which I don't think he would take it says what is he 303432. Acting at their plans. He's an old -- -- -- -- -- means no -- -- no I understand but you won't let you if you try to -- got away if you liked him you wanna get in the conversation with them. That you go down that road I don't think the Red Sox like him enough to get in that congress you. A -- of between 330 and cancer and five in 150. I mean really mean. Five it depends when you're how old you -- to a certain degree did it affect significantly the luxury tax implications in in years four and five of bad deal at a time when you'll probably have less payroll flexibility right they are doing a front end of today -- -- -- Josh yes -- -- Now -- make this thing is I'm Zack -- yes now so -- -- -- what I did or what this plan. Well today the plant -- at least so far and I understand me change that I do want. Right now the sitting around and wait I'm getting a guide a DH I knew they were gonna sign. Ortiz David Ross a backup catcher who we love beef on them on a couple minutes is over -- -- for that. And a brother manager but those are gonna bring and so so far right now it's very early. The -- seems to be said about things a bad plan won't say -- I was. I was gonna say you know you'd -- as a reminder two years ago. At this time you had to create -- in Adrian Beltre Victor Martinez who weren't -- -- early you have millions Gonzales he didn't have. Carl Crawford. And also in two weeks later in the conversation -- toll -- and even three years ago when you didn't have Adrian Beltre until January or. Last year when you don't have Cody Ross until late in the offseason cycles so I think you know there and there are still a number of guys out there I think -- you know it's it's. That there is plenty of musical chairs left. And basically there's only been one there have been two notable moves Torii Hunter are signing with the team that he was destined to sign with -- and in the other one being this big trade that. Kind of exaggerates. The perception of how quickly the off season is that and that's exactly -- and that's what's fascinating about what's happened here because. Literally two days ago. Josh you bring up Josh Hamilton's name around here know if there was no touch him now. Fitted blue jays trade happens an almost son people say you gotta do this you gotta do that we have conversations about what that why aren't the acting cook. More quickly it. I -- it only gets a consensus though I don't I don't know if you ask you to consensus but the conversation is a lot more prevalent and well I think you're right doesn't trip I think most people. You know I've heard the callers here you know comments on stuff like that. Look at the blue jays trade -- that's the country the reception. You know you don't wanna pay Jose Reyes. 66 million dollars last three years of -- -- what was surprising about their interest and media I was stunned I was really -- all right if you -- you -- to put up the blog -- it are you do you think this was a wise move every -- 80% of people say no that is and why they've been -- you know here by the -- Beers and they've learned I think a -- surprises and -- holidays that was. If the Red Sox were alleged in the middle aged and bringing race that's surprised. It's not necessarily that much of one to me because for the next few prevent for the next few years he probably represents is -- option is going to be out there shortstop within your stock. You're stuck but it's more difficult the trade him that it was for the Marlins wait three years of trade unless you absorb some money and -- the lesson that we're getting from the Red Sox from the Red Sox trade with the Dodgers in from the Marlins trade. With the blue jays is you can move money. Major League Baseball is filthy stinking rich right now these people don't have any freaking idea. What to do with the money it's pouring out their freaking years if they don't want to give it to Scott freaking Boras. In so you have all of a sudden. These things that look like bad contracts are still movable don't ever -- got African Boris again because that's a great I do nothing but otherwise they'll -- -- always be talking to me not even got through -- -- and a -- Pot socially or 937 might throw. Yet what are that he's not there for ever and where are where removing MLB network side. That's about it coming at 647. We'll talk -- delicacy with -- -- of ESPN and the Dallas has an opinion -- -- -- ideally I think actually it's it's not real dissimilar between the three of -- thank you -- agrees with us. The question is is again it created -- there unanimity of the most exciting former radio what the thing is what we would be a thing where we all disagree with the guy actually won -- and win. David Ross at 645 right now we're talking with the Red Sox are doing with their plan is in the offseason has been quiet so far. But it's still very early we got a surprise and offices this is -- -- that made some sense. The money that Torii Hunter got. Do you if you ask me you know three weeks ago when his contract was was going to be. A little bit I was a little bit surprised those little higher than I thought it would buy it this also -- in the conversation of are the -- I can be turned away from some of these free agents who just wanna go to places where they wanna win. Because with Torii Hunter that was clearly a priority for them and if the Red Sox are in great position if this -- last offseason and the Red Sox are firm that deal with -- Ortiz there. It might be different conversation but I think that winning was a huge -- or the perception of winning is a huge priority for. You don't wanna waste any years if you -- on or near 37 years old and you may be one retire after two year deal. I'm not that surprised by the dollars I think about it said before baseball's rich right here. But I mean -- rich now -- now. But does that mean departments are really race with a ready to sort alive with a Red Sox -- -- -- what. What in the cross was with that they've offered. -- two year deal that her. Eighteen million I mean you know -- how close you get -- -- I don't think the conversation ever started really really -- he said I wanna go to Detroit. And attacks by Mike. Right and then everything else was fall back -- as he had identified in the beginning of the process these of the teams that make sense for me to find a deal that it works yep okay cool. What you want from the Red Sox here I think with the fans want to look at this from a -- and they want Sharon to not to react. You know rationally quickly in the -- or whoever's doing this yesterday that wasn't so much -- -- -- troop I don't get stroke off I think I think I think they wanna look at have him look at this trade. And say listen this does it affect us at all what we're going to do 24 hours ago presuming wasn't -- -- We're Johnson is what we're still gonna go forward and be Smart and be discipline I truly do believe the fans. By it and that's why I think that the that they want to -- the -- -- Hamilton they -- -- I heard a lot of calls on Josh Hamilton yesterday and it in in two days from now that probably will revert back to where we were before and what you're talking about. But you know I think that for that moment anyway it sent a shockwave through the fan base to say you know what. We don't wanna be left via the reality is is that. Toronto has their lineup they have the rotation they have a roster set basically -- offseason virtually don't write it and so -- -- -- the Yankees and the Red Sox and you go through the -- and there's holes here holes it so it's not even fair to say this compare that team this team there's an excellent chart on that on full -- thank you. -- still show an ID three several take a break we come back new Red Sox catcher David Ross will join us here. But still -- 937. David Ross in a moment first a little breaking news. The American League MVP award goes to Miguel Cabrera the Triple Crown winner 22 of the 281 place votes in. I would say it's a mild upset. But I guess maybe not -- told earlier rabbit but Cabrera went and our occasional -- but -- you know one of our ability against the -- -- Cabrera is the MVP will talk about that would keep law who is not pleased about that after the 7 o'clock hour. -- joining us right now in the AT&T hotline is the new catcher for the Boston Red Sox David Ross David it's Turkmen and Alex beer and rob Bradford Boston or you. I or not. Who would you rather vote was just say -- is a Cabrera or is it true. Yeah how is -- gotta I gotta I gotta go -- that -- trounced dynamic but if I kind judges as -- I'm on the team and I got became a -- -- little on the fast and and it's Miguel Cabrera everything retirement. Twice on Sunday. Let's say that you're catching in either Mike Trout or Miguel Cabrera is. Is on first base -- -- -- inordinately more mindful of at that point. I'm I'm I'm not permit to Baltimore but I am I know -- about you -- -- assets. -- thought that the one thing I do have a lot of confidence there. David now. What would you say is your favorite memory from your first trip here in Boston what stands out from the holidays are here the first time. I was here about who might that play out we're in in eight out there are about to -- right it's it's what stands. -- atmosphere beyond trivia. -- I -- I have never been around. -- -- As a player it's too and help you bring your -- game every night you know the fans showed up there intense -- up on Google out. Remember. I never could get out in the bullpen help and now. You know be the third catcher and Papelbon -- and it you know I I play -- in his -- in LA. That was pretty cool but I mean you're so loud without all have a market may have network. They're -- the atmosphere is amazing. You miss playoff roster correct. A bit -- -- -- that was struck a little bit that you're hitting in. Actually catching Wakefield. Can catch was with the back up and had been I think all year and they've they've brought the admin and luckily and fortunate for me they put me on compound as the third catcher in them. Actually I had so much finalist. Is a great experience for me an alarming. It did that catch you off guard at all or do or you kind of adding an up as the days toward the playoffs are coming they. Because -- why they've brought in and you know erupt and honestly that's the one thing that I have. -- I felt like black talked of Fannie and job because who really upfront honest. Just like -- And Quito where when I was there and that feeling was really comforting so they it was kind of caught me off guard they're completely caught city but I do they brought -- for reasons and and and I felt that he not felt like that that wasn't. Sure you know. This go around the Red Sox finished the season with -- with Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Ryan of our way splitting catching duties down the stretch. Were you expecting the Red Sox to be one of the teams in the mix for you in what have they told you about what about expectations for playing. I say I get it. I didn't really have any expectations in the -- for anything Pittman. You know by interface has analysts think you know what internal if you are somewhere you really wanna go or -- -- -- goes out. -- -- -- -- -- There's a lot of interest a lot of teams called which was. Really humbling for me -- licking their equality and especially Red Sox and how hard they work with me so that was a really. Nice experience -- to be a player and to see you know. -- -- -- that your career realist there's a lot there was quite streaks starting job out there in in major markets since that time winning teams and then. And Boston and think the playing time is going to be from meat. Just cut a split. You know I don't I don't know obviously matchups or whatever but obviously. They told me among these -- have backed up and down. And but I'm not going to be starter -- not -- such -- it state a week. Which nor that's not what side their side there because of how I was treated so. Obviously they put the best for support financially too so. I'm. Really doesn't matter to me a lot of the other teams such instantly and I think he has that. And whatever role they actually do opposite that's also -- know about it -- that matter goes back about where. We're starting or whatever you can't get out fast on the bench or -- -- Slaton. -- a skull and approaching them to the best site and then -- Try to help the incredible. Red Sox catcher David Ross joining us on the cost social and 937 David in 2011 you're part of an epic collapse with the Braves the Red Sox have similar collapse in 2011. Did not turn around 2012 you guys were able to do that Atlanta. How much credit I guess go to the manager of the players are you guys able to not have that I -- a factor ruin your season right from the start as it as a really did your boss. Yeah. I don't. We do a lot more change. In Boston the two different it was a touching that took place. And also got a new guy that they held. You guys -- -- some young guys that you just seem like. An outsider perspective there's a lot of turmoil. We can't have or watching Donald no -- We've added. A -- -- maybe at opening guy won the Cisco guardian or is that you know. We didn't have any change -- manager was saying. So we just had to look ourselves in the bears players and and we know what I have to you know we just had that. Played baseball who wanted to play we had guys that were hurt towards in that it is yearly collapse. And you know we just we get here obviously is -- we just that we have played better baseball you know. Everybody had a bad month it seems like every fifteen years he has a bad -- foolish or whatever on McCain's. And I just happened to come September and until the Red Sox have a great team they had that start at being so. You know it just one of those things that we tell ourselves the mayor of we don't each other's back we don't care about each other. The thing we never doubted whether by a deal would give a 100% then that's all you can ask for I don't think. You know education to one thing but you know as a teammate as long run -- he major going -- their -- is hardly -- To win that torture well. In after he signed looking into some of your numbers some some stood out you alluded to but you're still in controlling the running game you've got a terrific -- stealing percentage. Over the last out over the last several years. You also have I think the highest with the second highest winning percentage in the majors in games started is catcher in the last a couple of years. And it as well as one of the lowest -- CRA's of anyone in like the last fifteen years. Do those numbers mean anything to you like what is a meaningful barometer for for what kind of quality player is working behind the plate. Who wins. And and you know -- it's kinda I'm sure the people of Atlanta mortality here and from -- but that they that play I try to get Brian McCann. A breeder I'd want him in the game I want him to relax and knew we needed him. -- if it would level -- a World Series which is the goal. And we need to have to be healthy at all to make acceptable push Michael -- played throughout the year was let me win today is all we got the legal and I'm. In an item aggregate pension for a mark on -- about the game and hectic diplomatic content try to. You know has had him warm up and need to go in the eight senators try to get it Batman -- You know whatever so my my goal every day after he still. You know whatever I can do to a team win whether it -- it run -- that -- actually. More mentality is that money in Iran but I -- do the same title I don't care I try to play good defense. I wanna get the most out of -- -- picture actually pitcher like that are. I've brother you know I'm a local. I care trying to -- I think it's like a battle between -- two -- -- -- flat out. And that's which I -- and I care you know I get mad. Where and when they get up and I feel like target and you know if they fail so. You know that's that's. You know to get in my head that's how I think in I don't know there's a robbery you know what your backup catcher. You eat you'd you'd you don't get exposed as much as. And that's starting catchers are like number still you know you're able to get there and and call a different game didn't indymac. -- can't get great job too so. That they -- district get off each other and I was it would benefit from. Hewitt says that there were other teams contrast to his probably tough choice for you to make. When John Farrell get hired as manager of the Red Sox. Did that -- -- going your radar as hey you know what that's a drawing -- potential drawing card the government coming here. Well they EE call greatly to our call talked to me answer that band and I think just -- him. Sister here. Interest in me and whether they want it does -- eighteen humans and other want to get back. Was when I was you know eight which are looked at. And and just. You know what quality guys quality -- and our -- just to hear the way they talked about. The gain was reassuring demeanor -- the same way I think him we all went away and then I'll get on the same page and everybody kind of working together. As a whole years to. -- win ball games. They talk John and Andy said quality player but they talked -- the plan because that's something we've debated here for awhile people talking about it venture to some of the plan. They specific I mean in terms of what. Now really just talking about terms of you know we like equality talent with quality people and I think that that's the recipe for success you know you know its -- he'd say. It and this is just. Apparently Josh Hamilton as a great person but it just to say Josh Hamilton down on the market. And yet he remained without their this year exactly the with a with a successor as leader you know maybe the best. That got a person or respect the soccer player or you know just their reputation regain. Particularly considerations that is going out get -- the best person I think that is a huge huge. Important peacefully especially when you're talking about. The difference between you know -- a player. And that topic that count the players it's a good person and a leader except for example plays hard every day. And you know we'll play through play it would look things are -- went. You know will grind it out and you know nobody want -- you know itself when they're just you know. Kind of heard or whatever you gotta there's these -- -- based all that does happen and sometimes an 80%. One person is better than a 100% of another so this has got people that care about winning -- about. Winning baseball I think that was over the massacre that I -- to Auburn. Yes sir would already -- floor occurred because floor. Focus in on Auburn football fans -- you want he's got paper bags and your heads down there weren't. Actually there are happy summer Auburn. Ordered the right idea I don't know you can't do it that's here now that's a bad sports and -- -- -- that. Today. I think it'll work out often vote because he thought leeway -- also got out of college -- -- got all the professional sports search does love. -- Bobby because he's -- carry cash actually Texans and told you that you are fraudulent Florida State and so. It's. I waiver away or -- you got a definition. Daily monitor yesterday at an honest flavor okay -- there and yes there. Our our bandwagon and everyone's so I -- we appreciate your time thanks a lot. Guys like to talk to the Arctic air. It -- David rusty Red Sox catcher that's robbed at a sports. Well if if Florida. I mean it's Florida let's be honest was and issues not not the best sports fans and -- -- his art course. And I I honestly I I think that the idea of allegiance and loyalty is drastically over -- On that you've you've you've exhibited that many times Alex -- -- -- I break every comeback after the break Keith -- the SP and we'll talk about the MVP vote would term controversial Miguel -- Triple Crown winner. Knocks off Mike from what east twenty to 21 place votes the ball Austin voters went throw. Went for. Was shot academy and to -- -- in his Blue States. -- at first that the people ordered not to go through puberty that's unbelievable accomplishment. He bought after the break but still show an -- 37 WE I would get to -- on a minute talk about the MVP which went to Miguel Cabrera comfortably. In his look at the BB WA a has. The ballots -- should not do -- you -- their last night he voted for the site on congratulations thanks but I little honest. I would I look at these guys you're the guys that you. You hang out what you mean there are so some of these guys is so stupid to believe this regular pat on the desk reference market solace in the Chicago Tribune who. I imagine is not impaired mentally. Voted Derek Derek Jeter who why you know -- a great player. Third the American League MVP well well nobody is that it plays well that's that's the best the second. One -- we all agreed that first one was shell shell walker the shocker. Of Cleveland in the plain dealer Cleveland plain view he's that he voted -- certainly Akron -- to -- UK -- -- I'll hold this. He's old unit thing is -- -- as -- -- Wagner Beltre and do that you know he's like you voted Beltre second over Trout. So out you -- not happy I mean it's not a matter of not happy distinctive dot I just wanna get this off my chest has been on my chest. I think the Triple Crown this kind of stupid and with that on the epic may agree with you. Chief lobbyist the end keep its -- in Al Xperia rob Bradford or you triple. -- -- -- You know I thought he did it was gonna be close I did not mean I figured I still thought there was that sort of older wing would vote for Cabrera just by default but. Were you stunned he -- 22 -- next. Now I have no expectations for the baseball writers' association. It's an insular group the older group. And then this is a group that has. Wanted for years to try to limit. Who get into the retired right they wanna let me rocked Ireland a couple of years ago they gave -- perhaps a hard time making it. They denied SB nation needed you -- part time. But guy getting a bill Madden who this organization put in the hall of fame with -- -- award. Yet to get his head around the on the radio the radio station website regarding a radio station about how up to speed. This group that you consider this what this really wise way. Well one of the final gasps but just the whole dying philosophy you've got a situation you're -- audiences smarter than W the people that they're reading. And if you're gonna look at as. Now in in years to compensate. Packed with wall with these people have a -- not see the Mike Trout with the more valuable player that these people these voters are saying not on how we are the guardians of information. You must continue to look at again that we watched a look at it because of the industry that we cover. Look Sadat and big twelve morons because they all know by trial was more able player. But again they're trying to -- you people trying to protect their job to protect the -- as the guardian of information even though they could hope that this is passing them by. -- keep isn't as simple as if Mike Trout and hit for point higher than Miguel Cabrera he'd be the MVP. I yeah that's right Hamilton hit two more all right -- that simple as. Yeah I think so I think that David Ortiz should I should demand a recount of the 2005 MVP voting to -- lost Iraq at this point. Yeah yeah and it is beat the Triple Crown but playoff narrative that the other thing. If the White Sox don't fold or the tigers angels were simply different divisions they switched divisions. At the intellectual one more game and they put much tougher schedule. But the tigers made the playoffs Cabrera carried it into the playoffs and we didn't come Paul what to watch a baseball game every now and then. Follow it season this is not an individual sport this isn't the end yet. Well one player can really take a team from eighteen wins one year at forty for the next. That single player to have that kind of impact in baseball and Cabrera carry the team just sort of ignored that. Austin Jackson Prince Fielder Justin Verlander Max Scherzer or have pretty good season. Which is worse he's a guy obviously feel very strongly by the Cabrera thing but putting Beltre and -- for a which is which is the worst transgression in your mind. If you just as I said one on one. Putting Trout anywhere but first with bad putting him third is really indefensible. There was a boulder in Detroit who I think had left and no law. -- ballot entirely. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Just a rash of mistakes but I mean -- You know what what criteria are you using this shouldn't I mean I've voted note in the fourth time I've voted on an award solely been an alchemy. Ever taken very seriously I think there's an obligation to take -- seriously to try to do this kind of objectively and to me that means. It's spending some time going through the best statistics that we got available measuring performance and I think it felt like that -- what you what you whenever. Do you think wrote on it with the ten most valuable player. In the American League this year what are you picking names out of how. There's no rational thought process behind this -- like somebody realized that the ballot was he -- five minutes just fired off an email with and named Pete he picked Iran. Who was that whom who put the bonds ten looked on low. I don't know the median -- I know some of these writers I don't look for a talker I know the name I know he's another he's -- seasonal. Yeah therapy what they were younger right in the bill -- Minnesota is reflect their. -- -- Africa area -- how well policies you know more -- they -- Cabrera both both Boston voters -- -- good for us -- what you don't like colleges they're well educated and. He's an operator Matt Bryant half. You'd be surprised the -- the which it is high school curriculum as changing by the minute album but in terms so a lot of people obviously reduce it to this idea that Cabrera has impacted the batter's box was so great that that's why he was the guy ahead of Trout. Who do you think with a better hitter just you know whose office who made the greater offensive impact inside of the batter's box out. I thought trap and certainly try to leave the full easier missed three weeks because -- were busy trying to pretend that Vernon Wells with the biggest waste of money in the American League this year. Travel with a much more dangerous hitter overall. If you factoring in what he did when he got on base and got on base that actually that very slightly higher clip pick up where it. This year Cabrera had an edge in power. Some -- which is explained -- he has more power -- which is explained by. Play the better hitters park and played much -- competition this year but still you can page in the power department. But Calcutta based just this world comparative and did substantially more damage when he was actually. On base and if they were both been neutral environments in terms of ballpark competition. Erupted at that point where it looked extremely similar even -- Cabrera had the slightest of edges there. Travel which is an overwhelming once you start looking at defense the -- It is kind of amazing to my mind when you in just looking at the base running thing throughout very like simple lens. Why is it that Miguel Cabrera is on base more than Mike Trout by a number of times. And yet scored twenty fewer runs despite the fact that he had Prince Fielder hitting behind him. If indeed he runs like the statue of liberty means it can giving Cabrera home from particular force single. You like David sarcastically yet. The -- doesn't actually matter in terms of value delivered Trout delivered since they have been more value on the basis want to read base stealing. Stole 49 out of 54 which is. Up hope well over the threshold between 775%. You get over that mark you're helping the team. But also just -- ability he spoke first and third to score from second not a base hit to score from second on you know. He would not quite Billy Hamilton territory here but you know conflict -- second on a sac fly to score from first on. A double that wouldn't score the majority of hitters whereas. Cabrera on the other hand the station to station and over the course of the season. It's a handful of runs in either direction but the difference between these two want to have that type -- lead and one of the slowest. Was really substantial such as -- base running numbers show that in the defensive numbers as well. In talking to voters are 'cause tired of people based do you think their defense is valued enough when voting for the sword. Voters missed it twice because -- that the value of position. Center -- the proper position played third base stopped by a huge amount but it's a little bit tougher. And they don't value defense properly but not a surprise rate that -- for a long time this was simply the most RPI. What it by if you if you just take the time to read the description it is not set in stone but beat the the the read the description of the award. There is defense there is games played which you know obviously works a little bit of millions probably gentleman with him that it. Yes that's true that the army we worry before I think -- was based united hasn't changed since 1932. So -- to take that agrees saying you can only white rights and that I don't know. Yeah I just. Pessimism -- and keep Fabius the end joining us here on a hot stove show Q1 of the arguments against -- by the people doing it is. A game on September 18 means more than a game -- you and eight. Right which is wrong. -- and I -- at all preaching acquire if you look at the standings there's no double counting of games since September. And actually I don't know I don't really like going down this particular rabbit hole anyway but. Miguel Cabrera last twelve games of this season came against the twins in the hole. At a point when the White Sox or implode. So you could argue that became. Became increasingly irrelevant where the angels I don't think we're eliminated probably should days left in this season maybe bring. So every game Trout plays in September. Was extremely important and by the way -- played absolutely fine in August and September that -- 87 on base over the last two months. Which I don't believe in an arbitrary and point thank you gotta look at the entire season and not highlight certain monitors certain weeks -- certain days. But there has been the argument that what -- faded down the stretch -- we didn't he actually played great continue to steal bases play great defense. He get on base which of the three things he does extremely well both what you did see here was apparently concerted campaign by these old guard media members. -- you. Created narrative around Cabrera that also. Included degrading Trout performance. Even if the fact did not support claiming that -- wasn't good at the end of the season claiming that the angels weren't as good as the tigers all of these things were were false but became part. Of the Cabrera legend. Part of the reason keep by acting to Triple Crown is stupid is because it essentially. Identifies three stats that all measure the same thing you know. Hope runs -- good hitter average you're a good hitter RBIs are good hitter congratulations on identifying three variations on a theme. Yeah a lot of home runs and you know what you're playing on the Astros to meet the -- -- forty home run hitter in the middle like happy with out of probably not -- -- the league in RBIs in -- be activated to get guys on base but in general -- forty home runs and have a 110 or so RBIs and maybe more. Just depending on who basically on base in front you're sort of double counting me let you had to point out that I regret that very in this season. What the Triple Crown include is batting average home runs RBIs it would it doesn't include. Our walk. It Batman sac fly -- all actual events that have value particularly walk. Stolen bases and everything that goes along with base running double and -- don't access the -- exactly same Singleton and the Triple Crown. Defense position ballpark competition none of those things come into Triple Crown. Where. The people that make people think of me on Twitter Triple Crown covers the three most important -- but the statistics. You must have the worst understanding of baseball if you think that those three statistics. Are the most important what you do anything close to a complete picture of the sport. Granting that. If people identified those three you know people there are people who obviously identified those three is defining stats in the fact that Cabrera can lead -- -- -- Affect the Cabrera who you know won the Triple Crown was identified as this historically. Significant event that hadn't occurred in generations. What's the case for who is they're not a case I guess you know I'm curious for your perspective. Was this a kind of transcendence. You know a puck all season by. By Trout did it doesn't deserve. You know some kind of historic consideration for a cabinet and. It -- it -- the arguably the greatest rookie season in history. The first rookie to go. Well what was it 3030 you've reached third he'd get a chance to -- third set right and that. Was caught stealing a couple of times that think where at least once or twice that final series went it would clear the angels were out of it it's. It's just well. Track and run much -- he wants at this point. No matter how you like it would you go by each goal by rookie status it was. One of the greatest -- in baseball history it wide. I believe the highest wins above replacement needs and -- -- Barry Bonds who carry some. Hobby got along with his perform. So what they bond out of the equation you're going back even further to find a season -- a much impact and it would impact in all areas just as much total impact. As Trout was able have. This year and for that -- be ignored by the voters is that it's willful ignorance we are not going to look at defense would not look at page running. We're gonna stick our heads in the sand and just look at. What -- on the back of old time baseball. You Gary we're all surprised him the and it turned out this way but before a half hour ago for refinements ago. What was your prediction in terms of how this was gonna shake out how many first place votes trial where he gotten certainly not six automatic. I thought Cabrera who would win and it wouldn't be that close. In particular can this be another way that the voting the pointer -- -- fourteen for first place vote. Not for a second and then you can just go down one at that all lines and even if Trout with second. -- -- Every other ballot where you -- first it would still in terms of point it was still a look like a landslide Cabrera got the majority of first place which is what I expect. If you get -- remember this morning and they said. Eighteen to twenty for Cabrera instead of 22. For these awards and we seem more rational results in the Cy Young award the people finally walking away at least a little bit from pitcher wins. But the MVP award looks like it's going to be the last one to fall and Natalie could fall before the -- start to get mark. People ask questions from me here I guess I'm not really short taking everything account and if you had a vote for -- on BP would have been for Trout or -- Cabrera. Proud person like that would have brought it now. Back in real value added over Cabrera and over progress -- -- -- Cabrera I mean that tremendous season. Here try defeated he thinks that they're basically because the things sort of hoped Cabrera supporter -- talk about how he was fine at third base -- -- -- -- -- -- give the ball right at them. And it basically found that glove. That he could -- he's he's got a bit more but -- brutal power he has little if Parcells that he wouldn't it wasn't a good third baseman the first time in jail he's happier. That he was the last time he tried to pay to play the position where it canal. And I thought the comment Duncan out too well you know he's lazy he doesn't try which is. Unfortunately something to see on a lot of Latino players in and I. Yeah maybe was why you never hear. -- ever -- -- here. You know he's if he was white he'd be scrapped and how can he be thinking -- I don't think -- -- -- The least bit lazy he's a good defensive second baseman -- to his great credit to you what one when he first came up. And get a great offenses he's he played slightly tougher position positioning Cabrera did anything much tougher competition over the course that the you could argue that can -- get help from the ballpark and and if somebody said not Cabrera at second over canal. I'm fine without those two that were pretty close and leaned -- canal the commute with Trout in the gigantic gap. Before you got anybody. He won one time a man named Sam Cooke sang the change gonna come hang in there with a sword and it's it's going to happen slow. You know what we're going to get my -- I -- -- -- that's true that's true that's -- works -- page views. Thanks -- -- thinks he -- -- -- joins us guise of a couple minutes here I guess any lingering thoughts out and you think the Triple -- the stupid. That being said there are guys who have had -- worst seasons Cabrera was one. Yeah I'd I've the one thing I don't want to be confused with the same -- Cabrera didn't have a great season because he did he is a great hitter I love watching the guy in the batter's box he's basically. He is he's what Manny Ramirez was for his seasons of greatness. By you know that doesn't mean that he's the best player in the American League. I just wish I if there were traditional stats I just don't know why runs weren't factored into the equation because then. -- for the Triple Crown because then things would look awfully to would you agree -- we talked about before that as stubborn as the the old school. Crew is the civil metrics air in the car equally stubborn in their inflexible as well the -- I don't yet know that there's no question news of the example oil is used -- -- I can you remember who won despite. There was someone saying hey you know what you never bond even with the pitcher up first and second and nobody outs in the ninth inning tie game. And obviously I don't agree with that but. Yet and I think money ball was they would that would kind of set everything -- and everyone taking sides digging in got a little bit better I think but it. Number one key flaw I think one of the things that he was emphasizing with the -- value defense enough. Forget about all the Saber metrics that that voters just don't value defense enough and I agree with that. This thing is is that what David Ross said to us before which was. You asked him who would you vote for and he's a -- -- tell you that wouldn't Cabrera is copies the most feared hitter in the game. That's a guy Joseph -- argument but but I think that some of these voters honestly say Triple Crown who would I -- up at the plate. That's it. I think that that's there argument. And out in bit cross the players are going to be voting by the a lot of players feel that way and a lot of the players are educated today you know what this while the voting where you voted voted for the site via pay one what was the process along -- -- with the ballot. Or sleep at that Bellamy every I'm -- -- just for rest of it. All the bottle yourself and a lot on the process. Yeah health of the U I think that when you know you of the vote you kind of keep tabs on. What you're looking at me that way you -- -- producers finger. You can keep tabs on as is going on and rent. That I sit next Alex yankees debut at the last here here we go at that crucial vote for. But it's it's then the answer became clear. Yeah anyway and it was with Hurley and I vote for Verlander but the for number one and I think in Alex pointed this out to me as well that he pitched a lot more. And he was just has to just give them more innings for the business and write -- -- forty more people Weaver was like 189 innings and over. The number about the number of strike out there -- a solo artist stated Verlander it was a par Morgan outrageous miscarriage of justice are you angry not angry about a lot men I'm cool. What makes -- keep law and two we have the Ross thanks we're going to be on next week when people are doing live. People you know Thanksgiving table if people are doing I always you know O'Reilly said we'll do -- -- you may not have -- have a good joke Eric isn't it. It's all we've -- still showing 937. NFL Thursday night FC east battle. Buffalo Miami next. I don't know why abroad and start it. So next Rondo out tonight right back -- tonight Celtics nets in Brooklyn nexus features that cover.

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