Nov 15, 2012|
Mut and Merloni debate on who has been the better rookie quarterback, Andrew Luck or RG3.
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Butler and ID three point seven WEEI very very busy addition the program today we'll play off the top and about an hour from now John Vincent afternoon drive -- And ESPN Indianapolis will join as we do every single Thursday we try to check in. With a patriots opponent and this week maybe more so than ever important get a look at this -- the because. They got a phenom quarterback it's a job been sold join us in an hour give us they take on this Goldstein Jacqueline -- joins every Thursday. She'll join us at 1235 and help us break Dow was a good win for the Celtics last night any real. Really good performance and -- and call. On the dunk by Jeff Green to make the call self was -- -- were to hear but. It was an important game last night the Celtics that we will talk Celtics and 12 o'clock hour today the MVPs kitten. Thrown out there 6 o'clock tonight MLB network -- and BP very interesting discussion. What is the conversation around here about the colts and about the quarterback and is it about Andrew Luck not just here. But nationally. What this guy's done stepped in number one overall pick. And immediately led the colts to a six and three surprising. Six and three record deserves to be the talk of the town the talk of India the talk of. The football way he does and I think. I think when you look at it I think there's a lot of it probably have more to do with the fact that the colts are six and three -- than the actual play of Andrew Luck. -- maybe you're looking at URG three write any similar Redskins at three and six. -- is that the reason why not talking about RG Prius much -- we were the first couple weeks because the games you haven't. But the six and three record of the colts. It's more the reason this guy is he a true leader. -- because numbers wise it's. RG 37 a better season correct. Wanted to -- statistic you -- eight touchdowns. Three interceptions he will run for 500 -- -- can say no -- wins. -- wait you say no it's no he's not luck that's six wins RG three's got three wins. To -- seven a better year. So you really gonna say it's it's just Wednesday and -- have a better year it's everything else as far as plane and the they RG three's are more rent -- -- Well he's more of an impact I mean he's had a better statistical year but I mean how do you just look at the numbers and say that's the only way can impact the eight team and also point out. The -- who had a better year RG three said Mike Shanahan and that offense everything else from the beginning of the -- Andrew Luck is the quarterback of the colts in his first year. Has -- his coach leaving. O'Donnell left that team to fight leukemia presario comes -- so. In the middle of your first year trying to figure out the speed of NFL football and hot read and do this in scheme and public works at a but it would not stand for anymore. You don't pretty damn good he gets credit for that but yet the winds look at the winds part of it. That's -- has had a better year I also think he's had to deal with more off the field that team. He's big he's been great this year -- RG RG three has been artistically good. I think Andrew Luck and NFL quarterback has been rate and it's not just in the numbers this city you're just hammer at away -- would -- immigrant secure overeating. Oh rating how Andrew Luck has been this year yes I think most would say he hasn't had a great rookie camp I don't are leave rookie out. Well how do you believe rookie out how is that possible there's only one lady just yelling at quarterback on Sunday. I like to look at the quarterback. You know so will we playing this week I know what is gonna look like my he's gonna he's -- probably gonna look like it looks gonna look elected to a three years because when the patriots. You know defects. But when he said that he what was more outs he's been outstanding he's had a great rookie campaign -- is great a great. Quarterback in NFL this year when you're when you're comparing him to -- Really any rookie not name RG three we'll look at the other three quarterbacks and I look at what other. One other teams what other quarterbacks would have done given the adversity Andrew -- had to deal with this year. -- quiet this though it was impressed me. Ethic with him is that you know. Kim Newton came out of the gate in his first you know first year was amazing first first half of the first years even more impressive. What does impress me is to wait and look at the last few weeks Chris you were you to sit at the raw numbers you know and at some point -- in numbers. Opening the whole picture but they do paint something they the right they have do they. The numbers you you own them but not as much in baseball because it's more a team sport. All pass should be caught tipped interception. Looked bad on you ranked. When you look at a seven -- quarterback rating point six in the league that's eleventh in the AFC. Putting 57%. 28. In the NFL fourteen under sixteen quarterbacks in the AFC. I was yards okay say in the NFL for the AFC so you look at those numbers. Not I realized that. It's he's a rookie would -- means that looks like he's getting better with every game. You know it's like it was all teams sort of figure amount that his completion percentage last three games he's played pretty impressive. It's gone up it's in the high sixties range all of them. Do you look at as a rookie and I understand I'm not saying this guy's not going to be great to three years from now he will be the elite quarterback can you be worried about Indianapolis. For a long long time. -- what the guy they're facing a Sunday. Putting 57% of his passes and touchdowns -- -- to -- sixers -- ten touchdowns in ninety X 52% completion but still. You know what you see in -- the future. -- we'll rate the actual guy in 2012. In the season he's had. Cannot possibly over rate him if you're allowed to include the fact that he's a rookie if you wanna live in this bubble that your presenting to us here in the conversation guide to good conversation -- you wanna present just look at the stats and forget. The it's a Larry pieces he's a rookie got his head coaches had to -- cancer during this year. And we got into the talent around him yet that would argue that. It's a pretty good talent around RG three as the systems that some talent around Andrew Luck but it's Reggie Wayne and some other guys. Where's RG three's got a running game a competent running game without remorse who got great week here we know about him. Beginning -- -- -- that would do -- warships and -- felt remorse but there are other guys there would get an opportunity to run the football he's been pretty good. So when you just look at the wrong numbers -- torture saying about how. How my supposed US exports and look at it and not recognize. That he is a rookie. And then a step further going off the statistic you say it was a year is they're player well chatting in order -- data that I don't projecting -- watch him play. Got -- makes he plays. Any different leveled any first year quarterback in this don't know there's no question. We played -- -- -- I really better at not turning the ball over than its predecessor Peyton Manning absolutely it is kind of funny. Half the picks Manning at this point I agree it is your rookie year told. Manning threw 286. Point 16 touchdowns his rookie year. Well would you say about that year that he is an outstanding NFL quarterback. Oh would you say that now he is going he is going over to be too much to be at a theater. An outstanding and a -- or when you watch Peyton Manning plays rookie year. Mean at the same thoughts right I mean you elect this guy it pretty legit. Look at the accuracy accused -- bad decisions. It's everything is there in which round pocket he controls the game everything there is no question about it for a rookie look at is still 26 touchdowns. Too many picks but I don't get better. -- was it. That year playing eight meaning that you can look at it's to me it's -- race coming up at facing some rookie pitcher coming up the system ranked. And you face and -- what -- This guy's stuff is explosive this guy's got a Cy Young in his future. We all not facing a -- five years from now what he's going to be will face in this guy right now tonight. What he has right now would -- do right now my fix it to three years and nothing good luck is not going to be great in zipping up his first year in 9820. -- This guy's going to be great. But on a given Sunday or net 1998 season we face to face Peyton Manning 2000 pre -- -- to 1998. I turned the ball over eighteen times this point that your luck has half that many picks. Right and -- when you watch him play. What what's the weakness there what's what's not -- what's not great about the way Andrew Luck plays because of five watching touchdowns in addition to attendees thrown. It's a fifteen total touchdowns so far this year fourteen it's not great offensively and we know is not for good defensively. What part of his game do we -- are we over rate the impact he's had at the colts six and three threes we're talking about I watch him play. And I think he is. I think he's had a great year for a repeat the put him up against other NFL quarterbacks. He were to say about ten touchdowns nine picks Mark Sanchez. But I completion percentage I can't get past that he is a rookie when -- gray fourteenth in the fourteenth veneer of senior please raise those guys on occur after saying at some point you have to. So a look at some of the numbers you know in the -- say RG three. I guess because they have a running game. You don't -- Morse he's also their running he's got 529. Yards rushing -- RG yeah he's been he is a freak in terms of athletically and terms of that. So we Reggie Wayne Donnie Avery NTY Hilton who graduated its and is desperately to get second best historical we cleaner has plagued our but I mean. This best weapon RG three's best weaponry -- Josh -- Josh flip and Morgan has messed up my peace people at number two wide receiver to give his name -- tanker sent a -- you call us thought the good player yeah Freddie Davis skip 24 -- he's just -- he's -- for the exit data loss was just Santana Moss. Your costs on a big guy -- an event. This -- still completing 65%. Of his passes. -- without question I listen I just stick yeah I've seen. Andrew Luck play in right and there's still you can see you can see you can you know what he's going to be I would take decked out right now. Right now I mean if you say give me a quarterback for the next ten years -- second behind him Aaron Rodgers are still to Karen Rogers -- it but second Debbie. Because you did you concede. The went up plane that guy. -- -- -- this week the guys -- their December says west winds its own not picked with this Patriots defense plain old article to a great. He's gonna look great. Because explain patriots the what is overall season. Was it offers a rookie of the year lock it down the RG three's had a better season. Winds all bowl wins six and 33 and six. At a better fantasy season as a quarterback every team Andrew Luck -- better year he's led his team two more wins three more wins and he's done it would more adversity. And when you watch him play I don't I mean I also much the same old argument Washington's the last but it thirtieth and football defense. -- play both sides of the ball same argument but they're both very talented. But do you. The -- go look at the numbers don't tell all mixed but sometimes you have to look at sounds like you -- exactly and he's a great color. You misconstrue -- I'm not saying that into law is not a great quarterback will not be great if you're saying he's not a great what I -- right now or not. Either you drug to go to credit he's got a great quarterback he's not a great quarterback so why put a case that you see like compare the numbers. Locked in Santa as you like he'd go ten and nine -- that. Mark Sanchez and the colts they six entering. I'm putting Andrew Luck on the jets patriots enough. We make my argument that I'd never compared in the Sox pitcher you're -- -- compare and -- your roster he's -- compare the numbers -- a nice Avis yes I let you ram that down my -- like that's the one all and all be home. Well okay you just told me that he's better academics -- divest. I think he's gonna be great quarterback I don't think he's great right now. And if you do that part -- -- -- great right now at least beached these showing what he can be you lead off the you actually apparently theaters and I guess maybe sell do you I have a hard I think he's getting the right amount of credit for ethical of Don. I don't think he's over rated and I would say right now it's the -- quarterback. I'd say he's great he's got a chance to be a hall of Famer. We give and Andrew Luck too much credit for what the colts have done it's six and three we start their 61777979837. Your phone number 617. 7797937. Your calls nine seconds. I've ever prepared to do a great job of -- created turnovers. Not inopportune times thereafter but -- have a very optimistic -- for themselves. In the red zone. Back to upload their teams -- on -- drive so. -- they did do a great job of that but it is quality of all the way around. That is a colts rookie quarterback Andrew Luck talking about the patriots and their defense a huge one for 25 Nantz and Simms on the call Sunday from Gillette your phone call 6177797937. On a hot cut this wood off the pass for 12 for Japanese phones are get a lot of Cam Newton -- to me is that I'm apparently. Now overeating -- by saying he's great this year are right. And joking that he's a hall of Famer -- The the -- new argument you are texting me on the -- text on -- 37937. Well the one thing with -- knew we all said last year was let's watch in year two because he's not a traditional quarterback because they do so much of that. Read option looking Carolina last year right or so much of his. Yardage so much its production came off the ground when he being shocked on a college offense faked the handoff inside either run or throw off of that. It looks to -- and its traditional quarterback we all agree like the way the NFL's trending. Andrew Luck the type of quarterback where he's not not to smoke and mirrors it's not really spread offense just couldn't go back drop back in the -- The -- new argument while he's so great last year -- pump the brakes on locked. Likes doing it traditionally -- we know it succeeds in the NFL. I think Cam Newton had to do with a spread off but I think he'll be good again bodily Cam -- eggs go up an adjustment there in Carolina. -- that argument doesn't hold water to me because. Traditional quarterbacks have a a better track record in the NFL and there's no smoke and mirrors -- blocked. Right we both agree on that and it's not. Haven't rely on the running game in Donald brown and and Vick Ballard bubble people running the football is Reggie -- a bunch of the guys. He's doing a traditional NFL's cents running Cam Newton little bit differently they're gonna argue certain rookie quarterbacks governor Goodyear that fallen back down fine. I still think in this case cam Newton's part of the conversation. I think you had a great rookie year meant that it's always. A big consideration. -- it differently but it's still -- two. In Saudia. That again -- we -- -- Cam Newton you still look at that team and just say well you know. In a good rookie year but instilled a winning game that team is still a mess and it's you know this guy comes back and having to try to stop them defensively and do some things. There may be -- -- the same thing with all these guys RG three Andrew Luck. They have to show continue to probe the sorts of thing it's really impressed me with with a Andrew Luck has it does seem like the last two or three weeks. I mean he has played very well and the percentages are 47% after the -- based on 6869. I put a lot of stock into that and all of obviously the weapons of some to do with that but URG three's at three interceptions. And it was fumbled the football he runs the ball antics are stupid it's he's got to learn the three interceptions to me is decision making. You know it and that's pretty impressive -- lucky shown at the last few weeks. Six was 777979837. Your phone number -- Walpole. Leads off the conversation today Ross good morning. Morning guys I don't you I -- doing great. But I completely agree with you on intrude into Iraq and I'll I'll explain. I actually heard. On the CI yesterday Bob Kravitz on the Indianapolis start abroad. And actually comparing them to Ben Roethlisberger. And actually I see that comparison because Roethlisberger has the ability. To extend plays has that pocket presence. And what has the same thing I think where the numbers don't show little talk and strictly about the numbers it's the cerebral part of the game that separates players like -- Patent pending and also Tom Brady because if you go back check out the numbers of -- Brady's first couple years they want great. But he did -- pocket awareness his. The decision making was sold off the charts that's what counts and that's why I think he's not being completely easy to watch that it. -- put himself in harm's way because of its ability to extend plays but that is also well I think what Nixon -- And actually put the comparison walked on Roethlisberger and even Peyton Manning because Dayton and that. Does not have that ability to extend plays what -- Seeing that with Democrats it's he's got five rushing touchdowns mean -- RG three has the rushing yardage but looks throne and a hundred more times. You know then and then RG three has the -- 360 Tutu 62. The pass attempts for those guys -- interceptions on locker going to be -- I think that's part of what makes him. Great right now is that he has a maturity about him. I don't expect this data many rookie quarterback the F five rookies in this league so far. Other all starting and playing for the team will pick through some of their numbers the thing that -- has that the extent Wilson has an even RG three has been what has that the most. Is this veteran presence about him to not force the football game three -- -- picks came opening day in Chicago. Another three picks and lost that game by twenty points and he deserves some of the blame for turning the football over but you get thrown. Right into the fire against who we now believe is a really really really good bear defense. And since then. He's getting better week as you said -- RG three a look at his numbers last couple weeks is quarterback rating 585753. These last three weeks in his three games whereas -- is going in the other direction. -- Steve isn't main talking about RG three and Andrew Luck I Steve. -- guys are good men are you about. It would come they don't agree with mud on it because. When you look at what -- is done Heath Evans edit that day. You look at -- this year. A lot of the growing you'd go into it or -- it cracked it in any worker and not doing that I think that. They're cold and a lot orbit -- -- all of and and down here where it but the pay cut down there watching it very -- eat it. Very little -- and there -- -- or any college. This they can't do in. That rhetoric out here and look at -- -- he would not merely living up expect a I don't -- you can't go walk. Just because of that what you -- yet now it. Or history or not they are go to the expletive you -- they're -- you know I mean. I happen a lot. Purely all of that one. Area it is -- -- Let's stick with this year to be fair the argument was -- long term I don't wanna change the commerce H yeah does that and it's it's not it's that they did all year at long term what he's going to be. Okay have you looked. At the two schedules these two teams. Washington in Indianapolis. Let something to do with the record no. Wouldn't you also look at me. Lock up and he had a couple injury -- you know forty -- also happen. I don't even think -- greet people or twenty I ever BB thirty compete in the. He said he -- three games four games restore over thirty times RG three. And 74%. In. On Pittsburgh on on on Pittsburgh he had apps it was awful there's no question about. Pittsburgh guy who's 47% I mean. But you know when you look at -- Carolina 60% 59% rather. Against Tampa -- 74%. Against since he was 61%. Against Saint Louis who 69%. Thought radio it's I guess the giants twenty for 2871%. -- but I listened the the Indianapolis Colts look at the schedule teams at 3449. Look at the teams they play it's a last place schedule 3449. Washington other hand went -- 4430. They're playing the fifty better teams and leagues as its last I checked when you play better teams tougher to win the. Washington got a better defense they have more excuse me. And I beat the and that's what legal lot deeper trouble they haven't they. -- -- Eric Butler oh boy -- here is a business. Well I mean when you look at it he's listened statistically but again I mean. I'm looking at that team and given up 27 and a half points Washington. Mean they're just awful and the colts just like the -- attire at the path that washing team. That that secondary is awful. Mean the defense is pathetic. And to say that there's more talent on on that team I. I don't know that didn't actually torched a reputable account that will go back to Shanahan if you want. Well I just look at again it stands up for me specifically with law that makes me believe he's a great quarterback right now. Is the game at home against Miami where he was thirty or 48 for 433 yards two touchdowns no interceptions. Now the end of the thing the quarterback ratings on 1056 and Brady's had a million up putting a lot to Brady's category. By a 1056 is sort of that not the high water mark because he played well against Minnesota earlier in the year. But they're coming off an overtime win against Tennessee they come back against Miami team that we thought until couple weeks ago. Was gonna jump in that second spot you know it's not a great defense but the great pressure Cameron -- -- after you know a passing defense -- what they are awful I I do so there's not a good -- -- running defense if they are outstanding you don't run against them. But that is no offense Miami is gay and port port colts have no running game to speak -- and dolphins do that go on -- went thirty of 48 for 433. Didn't turn the ball over when the Miami Dolphins new. It was Donald Brown of the hour on McDonald prime play neck -- -- now running a welts that carries against that team. And now -- a huge point 320 win and -- a hold on against the Miami team that we thought at that point. Might be in the conversation to come up and grab the second spot the AFC's that's now wildly up for grabs after their blow up against Tennessee. I'll look at that game and say that's that's beyond rookie put up 433 -- not turn the ball over. That's beyond what most rookie quarterbacks can -- in our lifetime. Mike's up in New Hampshire like you're next up -- -- Lou 937. Intranet in conversation. But I think you're listening yet I'll block and number three this year who I agree with Lou. I think he's going to be very -- eventually. And the showed signs that becoming mature. Quite early in his career but I think Russell Wilson has six wins. And he's got better numbers and look at that the president aren't. So I think you got a great competition but like -- keep it neat conversation. Purely out like you right. Typical look directly at. A country. Yes I was the opposite. Is that correct sir yes it's the now what. -- skeptics when he got a rookie cornerback. -- that will not Carolinas they spent one year Wisconsin. -- -- -- basically running attack. And all of the sudden hearing is put it. Numbers. And it winning. That I say hopefully the compensation Uga. And thank you Mike meant I was the more honest and Russell Wilson of the best year all these rookies. And knives. In -- been up and down despite you know like you will -- the conversation -- to pay to play -- and that's what has been starts but at such a good defense. I think -- there's the argue there's less pressure on Wilson. OK but on the quarterbacks we are talking about you wanna include Wilson fine. Who's the least amount of pressure the quarterback spot the idea Andy's got done it's well yeah right -- best running attack and our defense of those three guys and he's not asked to do was march. Because at RG three's his defense is awful offer more takes pressure off of Andrew Luck is defense is is okay. It is running game is off. So yeah I mean you've got Russell Wilson but -- -- -- -- -- -- I was asked do as much as those other guys that means. -- -- 20200. Yards in three games obviously. Obviously his season I was against the patriots. 293 -- -- are ascent and obviously this quarterback rating was the highest and thirty inactives and yards per catch. Where the highest in their game against the pages get -- just expected. But -- he's -- he's not making mistakes. High completion percentage just does that do too much because of the team around him -- good start good response here with your calls at 61777979237. Camden Tom Scott nick. We get back your phone calls we'll check in with Indy get their thoughts on the game 11 o'clock.