Nov 5, 2012|
Mut and Merloni debate whether Eli Manning can be considered an elite quarterback in the NFL.
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Giants quarterback Eli Manning giants had an opportunity to. Take advantage of a situation Pittsburgh with him because of hurricane sand and canceled the New York marathon over the weekend did not cancel this game because that Pittsburgh -- day game and I thought there's actually no shop it's berg. Forget winning would cover the four and a half whatever it up going off that. On they do they went out right and Eli Manning in the giants followed home is still six and three spoke a good opportunity there but. At times not a great offensive effort yesterday for. Eli Manning and -- mean this is the whole thing good that I got to learn how to spell -- stronger of a figured out change in the name. Somehow wreck that is gonna get -- out of it. It's just. CCC is it -- is he still Aaron Rodgers Tom Brady Drew Brees. Peyton Manning and his brother right now. This year. Eli Manning right now on this thing and -- -- quarterback Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees Tom Brady ever be number seventeenth right now in the NFL. In -- -- 85 point five when they almost three guys ever be in that category -- -- ever been in that category seventeenth and eighteenth. In the league. In percentage completion percentage at 61. With any of those elite quarterbacks. Ever be in that category where he is right now twelve touchdowns ninety I have to go back and look but it seems unlikely particularly Roger never played. But -- never being never spot from me every statistical rankings and would never ever be in that area okay. Talk to say where we're talking about the guy it in business too good postseason runs. Eighty pennies gonna call I was -- -- do good doubles isn't run outstanding historic beautiful historic yes post season run -- What do we didn't we. -- agreed after. They want a second super ball going in to them and patriots giants you agree I believe you agreed. Okay he's only he's got a second what happened between now with that I play was a leak. Eight regular season game it poorly run on a regular season I have never ever said -- -- I think he's a leak. I think he had a great run in the post season like you did know seventh. What capital filed capital six -- away one and done one and done one -- -- -- and -- five and that don't and I can see live at 605 was the second year quarterback the loss to Carolina doesn't tick into the bio imaging is -- Okay he's he's an above average quarterback in NFL. That's -- yes he's he's he's the guy that he did he lost to yesterday Ben Roethlisberger had that been -- expert better. What what's the definition of a leap then not on pro by this because there's no doubt I'd like Eli Manning is melody let's try cornerback he's -- -- -- that this is in a class of Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees and numbered. The typically now as they are back into areas are well. You that you you're doing something that I -- quarterback. And what about our history yes. Once again you sir you're judging by fancy stats and tech most Super Bowl numbers. As what defines a little the president quarterback in the national that would no completion percentage is like a real -- is is that off there's stat that's like a real stat but you what do you stats and rankings of rate of nine regular season games to emphasize that Eli -- not facing -- at 215 hitters just isn't as -- as -- 300 at all because of stats. What his entire career mark this guy's like a sub sixty at that right now the year we haven't. Is it isn't Eli Manning regular season year this is an average year. 61% completion ratio. You know -- touchdowns nine picks. That might be a little bit skewed by finish with a 25 and you figure I think of Eli Manning I think point 516 touchdowns and 1617 -- Now he is an average quarterback is above average season he's an above average quarterback. He's not I you just say he's not neck -- so he's not that class because of stats earlier you're looking at the stats and. And Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees and Tom Brady specifically had been -- otherworldly. When you compare their their their stats are great gesture -- so that's been our quarterback Rodgers is has been on amazing run right now -- the best quarterback in league today. But did to dismiss. And to call them initially too good post season run and it is doing in major -- data service to what he does it wanting to pick so my argument they were great -- they were historic runs -- outstanding warrants. That's it. They were moments where especially on the road and that's what jumps out to me. Winning. Six of those gains Wednesday games on the rolled one home one neutral site. And what they did during that time for your using the statistics. That say what's only what's not. I'd say that there's inherent ability of quarterback Steve stand in the pocket be better in the fourth quarter playoff games that lead you to be leaked. And what he's done -- audio work in those two playoff runs absolutely is an equally quarterback and defend what he did yesterday was awful. It was embarrassing yesterday a get -- an opportunity. Right to go to on the field. And do it at what Eli Manning always seems to do in the fourth quarter 355 to go three timeouts to navigate 88 yards 2724. At that time. -- committed 27 point four incomplete crews not close incomplete Bennett. Fumble Fong a sack by LaMarr Woodley the Kevin -- recovered bidding get the ball again. But if you're looking at what is an elite stat for quarterback to have an elite ability. I think it's the -- veteran postseason games. I think it's the ability to go on the pro soldiers off like he didn't -- for what it's done thrash out of the FC champ to gain your writing laws. The first putt it was one and on they lost 23 nothing to a team the Ottawa and the Super Bowl go get to a civil -- the patriots. Second time was on the road feel that's the second and third year. The game at 2008 Illinois was that depicts. But you saying to be elite you have that a perfect record what you know look at not operation Brady it's already add an outstanding either underestimate. It's just it's it's I listen I'm watching him I watch him all the time OK any -- -- heading night in a great round. In a post season or a call -- nice front to jump on me for that but it was a it was a it was a great run in a couple of post seasons. But to be an elite quarterback the -- to have the complete package mean you're you're you yourself you don't gonna put him with Rogers Brady Brees to be not gonna put up with that group. In Yucca put him with Peyton Manning of years ago and pain manageable we seen this year. And he snapped the leaked he's relaxed here at and that's always please -- Ben Roethlisberger sleep so he's what Ben Roethlisberger. Okay he is. And then you've got Matt Ryan out there trying to prove that he can maybe jump up in that category -- went under a spell yet come down on Matt Ryan what are your I -- regular season as well wait and see if he can jump up to that next group. But he is not. Tom Brady he is not the other guy because he's beaten Tom Brady twice and then you'll find his tees and all against milliseconds to protest his team has beaten them. -- This team has beaten them twice you'll actually correct that is a fact. Okay. He is not in a category. You say absolutely not the couple weeks back who wanna give credit the world right written Victor Cruz for that touchdown pass late in the game. Well if you remember great throw great throw great -- the -- you beat a guy great. If you remember after getting after Washington RG three almost put in the end zone and fumble. What do the very next best interception in the red zone awful pass before he's put himself in position have to make comebacks. Against Dallas she wasn't very impressive. Media party was awful -- Dallas games matter Fred these fifteen to 2990. Yards one pick. It's it's it's not there consistently. It's just not there and he's got a great defense anything he's a very good quarterback. -- but he's not -- group. He's a great defense in all eight of those playoff wins in the two years. They scored twenty or more points except for the Super Bowl went 1714. They scored twenty or more points their defense gave up in those games. Between but it won game of the 24 to game against Atlanta and Matt Ryan a year ago was brutal but 20171720171414. What he's had to do something in the old games it's not like -- this burger won its first Super Bowl. It was strictly a game manager right Pittsburgh as a rookie they won that Super Bowl that was about that defense hand the ball off to running back. -- I had to take place. In those games I think you are devaluing -- under valuing the ability of a quarterback. To make plays in big games Tony Romo isn't that -- you're talking about. Tony Romo puts up good stats he's up and down for the most part take Tony Romo may get to a playoff game. His record and that team is atrocious slaughter of that's like collector sort talking about it here I didn't you just put him in their group but it put him in. What group with an -- guy in raw talent guy. Who's not on elite status but as talent I think a guy like Romo for I would he's done in the two super bull runs that's at an automatic -- -- fire for him to automatically because Eli had to pursue global great runs. In a post season you know regular seasons were. Where were average. Yeah politically the second to thirty you're gonna put him in the -- -- -- -- look at all the great post season players. That you -- a great post season run Tony Marcos good -- player did well in the post season. Anyway there's because you -- great post you wanna -- their second baseman -- may play baseball too late quarterback in the general Morse who has fifteen touchdown public check Boris in those two Super Bowl at least one of the leaked pictures of all time. -- -- a great post season run you can go to assault aren't you gonna put a regular season together. Can be somewhat consistency what's that a former later this before Augusta went in the post season effort to a for runs he went on. Epic historical marches with the giants' fourth quarter comebacks on the road. That supersedes -- that's the U wanna sit here and hammer away at here. I feel like you're a fancy football -- signal too far when -- look at stats I exultation on runs I think it's been out Matta puts him and act group you'll pick. Nine pictures just does not just the a -- -- stack. You'll pick a quarterback rating and an Atlanta and pass percentage is just a fantasy status -- at quarterback. In this link. Do you think Tom Brady's greatest is up finishes that we also -- -- -- -- Rodgers has Greg been as he puts up there. -- to a -- the Super Bowl also a Super Bowl let's get through -- eighty Belichick likes it got fifteen touchdowns and two picks during those runs. On the road Green Bay on its efforts as he beat your precious -- Rogers 37 money. Last year in that playoff game at Green Bay he -- the San Francisco and took a beat down -- epic proportions. On the Sampras is the defense won on the road then -- beat the patriots again. In the Super Bowl I think the quarterback position public -- post -- baseball. You want to run like that yes you jump yourself into a certain class a quarterback I would say absolutely and in the athletes' status of you guys a lot of the talk about your opinions to 61777979837. Your phone number 6177797. 937. In a quick break come back jump in -- full call funny -- Your phone call 61777979837. -- little -- -- 37 LB had a good weekend Logan Mankins. Or join us as -- toward ground. We start with football hatred spy weaken Eli Manning once again the conversation. Angels in the car we get your phone calls involved here Bay's all. I would go on -- -- How much -- just a couple quick point. I know. I think very deployment. You know blatant greed and -- operating never having. Kind of bad. A quarter QB rating at that you know. Like -- I would -- I would say -- patent for the first game interpreted poor ratings mean at least the first six quarters of the year you looked pretty shaky. And secondly I think. I think that you know Rodgers and Brees you know on her being the MVP in. Current single is apparently record we're probably in the treatment for a ring I don't think they really care about the records and ultimately the -- -- -- good quarterback -- championship. It edit I agree -- has got to. Yeah so I mean you know if you wanted to go to -- your -- -- now by it's still on the record record. -- I just don't wanna give to restore runs -- brings it up was just regularly. Just second lump what was actually elite pitcher in Major League Baseball 030 so absolutely once yes he sure was but in the end to sink to two playoff runs have put in a category now where. Well there and do it consistently. During a regular season I don't understand why he just. What you would just had this -- Which is elevates his play to a different level in the post season and when you get down to a -- that's it. It's not quarterback rating it's not touchdown pass is not completion percentage but for me as a football fan. I want a quarterback I can trust in a playoff game and an -- of these. He's been terrific throw the email on the sideline to basically seal up back -- -- the patriots. Is an -- -- I don't think there's a handful quarter National League that make that sidelined the rolled Manning last time it I'm curious what. He's not -- leaked your drafting quarterbacks today to start a franchise with. Who who we've taken ahead of you -- an -- serious. Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees Peyton Manning Tom Brady. It can patent today. Today with his age are getting help well I mean if you over the next ten years is different story but right now for one year who the better quarterback but what about one playoff game. We have one game to win you see what many done in the post season -- not leap but. We take over -- pro in all this change aliens have taken are about to take over the world OK you'll put your team together. You got to beat this football got to beat them in a game you know your quarterback all four of those guys over a mile. You wanna give me -- defense poses a neutral defense. That come into play I mean you wanna say that this defense you know what a great support of all the points and Al Green beta when he points -- Tom Brady and patriots seventeen points. You know Alex with seventeen points -- a -- a office either but -- defense steps up -- neutral defects and I'll take all four of those guys -- linemen. -- to me that a -- group of quarterbacks and is the three guys you mention and Manning is number four. I might I might take him I said before any one game situation. The way he's played against a Belichick defense now twice. Have a hard time not telling us your story -- Belichick defense. Is what are we talking about here Tom Brady's quarterback that -- giants done this -- -- patriot defense and so probable. Really what does this Belichick defense here so all forward -- it's not a one. It's not all three its model for its 2011. And 2012. Screw the Belichick defense crap. That's on the -- we get back to your phone calls. How are you a good burial government. Our question I DMV. I feel like will loose and visit what everybody was it property. When -- went back to pay what you -- and don't you step in bubbles. I mean up until that wasn't in -- -- that ordered. Me at that. But what he felt it was come through in the clutch but really needed. I mean the Belichick defense was the reason why why. You know aren't they all want. 030 or it was a little lap. I just don't see how it can say that I like Eli who has won 20. I like -- who has won one. Indian Internet numbers are puppet to chip it's not the argument that we are greedy back in the days when you look at don't want 5000. Janet discussion back then was -- -- except the gaudy numbers in a regular season. Tom Brady does not but he wins and it was a valid argument right Tom Brady's team ball Tom Brady's got better defense it was the same argument. If people want to -- Tom Brady in a class of of of Peyton Manning but he was winning championships. That we. Disable any. -- he's got a two super balls he's lost the Eli Manning's Boston -- New York Giants. But since then he's -- it would say -- -- he said elevate his game somewhat since 07 with the seasons he's put together. -- unanimous -- BP's. I -- eat eat eat elevated is that you know I think he's I think he's probably a better overall player now what is. I mean -- he and I I -- you've got some of the best weapons at all pollinated and -- of ego. But you don't want tickets back. Well click click paint and the actors and stuff like that where. Went to practice when the Packers went with a bad defense. All part of what -- -- a peek at what -- anything special they were number two in the NFL that. But Roger litany that I was happy that they. They were number two in the NFL in points a -- It's yes it was there rods that they were number two in the NFL the saints is a good argument. They got turnovers OK they attack the football they relied on turnovers Indianapolis Colts good argument yeah but -- an -- season Sanders came back they elevated their defense as well. But the point is that Tom Brady. Yeah he did put up the gaudy numbers look in his first few years it was very similar in any elevated his game don't question it being an elite quarterback wasn't -- him. Just winning doing what -- Eli did with late drives now we've put regular seasons together. And the comparisons with payment Peyton Manning a paint can do and regular season the Brady can't. Well now Brady was we put himself in that category. Eli Manning continues to -- have self parked average. They average season is NFL quarterback to me is never gonna put in a category. I don't you put Eli on the -- you really don't -- keep an open up. Scotty got but he got Brady but he now close -- -- -- No he can't it's an adult that that part of the mean there's no now I I think DB put. If you put Manning there he. Put up -- numbers in Brady is a leap to. But the idea that Manning has few weapons and rate does and it's it's equal make us that a tight -- thing is all interest figure Hernandez or gronkowski win. Just -- mcdaniels used those guys B of yeah Bradshaw out of the backfield really threw -- once yesterday which bothered me. -- -- And you have -- on the outside. Those guys are awesome and not that their views now weapons bought it. He's still got -- ups are twelve and nine aids is is that a bad year. -- a bad year he's below average. NFL quarterback right now on the NFL lot of Canaccord. Or bird I was in Springfield he joins the show here 93 point seven WE -- -- -- Bartow. We'll military and -- I don't it would. I get a referral whole team we get a better fall like adherence. The sort of static but it was waiting patiently so it wouldn't get back we will do so is it DeVon it where hands warning or. The ball is going up. Or the real social point. -- -- to compare quarterback we should all be about. Who think about garlic. Dan Marino. -- who. An accomplice then went -- goals but he's got one on the back number. All time. And then you're gonna compared. They relate. These -- Doesn't want to -- that you would probably put in the second -- compared Dan Marino. So now output. Eli Manning. And one of those guys that postseason runs like he's young but. You're concurrently quarterbacks have that -- marine. L hall of famers mean young young an arena or in the hall of fame here. If you video well it. Well I can't argue that you are at war on the ball saying but is he consistent and there's numbers aren't there like there there are armed. A common examples but Russia's war vote. Well listen -- -- know it went underwent when it when they won that Super Bowl and we had this argument. And you know I see you do you think he's in yet call for. And I -- always put himself now the second Super -- to put himself in position. But -- the potentially be in a hall of fame but there's a lot more to do. And you can't be an average quarterback. During the regular season throwing your entire career your entire career to anyone about Tom Brady before no seventh. But what he's done since he camped just an average quarterback or tiger during regular season for sixteen games Iranian year route. NB a hall of fame because you want to super balls he put himself in position to potentially be that. -- -- -- elevate his game to come out to have somewhat of a decent regular season. I'm trying to look mean your calling it somewhat of a decent regular season. Over the course of his career. He said he's not had a a Manning like -- in recent years were his ratings but over ninety the second -- lack -- here. -- a lot of united 931. Though he called ovals average seasons metal back and look -- puts him in the top easily. Top tier quarterbacks in terms of quarterback funeral and not video games at Rogers -- nine years in the league men. Oh they get to the post season and he's been -- -- quarterback was seventeen touchdowns and apex. When he put those two years together it's fifteen touchdowns in two -- and it two year rotten. So to me edit there's that it is it inherent ability as a two year run what was the five years that. I seventeen touchdowns -- good quarterback rating of just under 9089. Theory. Right then and with with the road wins that are. At Tampa at Dallas at Green Bay at Green Bay at San Francisco to neutral wins over the patriots and robbery. Knew that Al stacked up against anybody. In a two year stretch to grieve difficulty to win a championship and during those two years he's got fifteen touchdowns and two X. It's at its tremendous. Terms of that run absolutely -- On the argument report. Actually doesn't body -- mind doesn't make Emily doesn't make Mary Rodgers Drew Brees and paying and paying Manning Tom Brady no Logan Mankins got joins top of the hour we'll continue with your phone calls not -- united --