WEEI>On Demand>>Bradford Files: Should the Red Sox trade a top prospect for the Marlins' Josh Johnson, Matt Garza of the Cubs at the trade deadline?

Bradford Files: Should the Red Sox trade a top prospect for the Marlins' Josh Johnson, Matt Garza of the Cubs at the trade deadline?

Jul 24, 2012|

Alex Speier of WEEI.com joins Rob Bradford for another edition of The Bradford Files, this time discussing whether or not the Red Sox should include top prospects Xander Bogaerts, Jackie Bradley Jr., Matt Barnes, Henry Owens or even Will Middlebrooks in a blockbuster trade deadline deal for either Matt Garza or Josh Johnson.

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Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

So for the Bradford finals right now phone WEEI they've done. Welcome to another dish in the Bradford files -- meet today as Alex fear I'm rob Bradford. And today we re talking about what else the MLB trade -- I'm Alex I don't know replied you of being so an uprising with their tests you've really kind of stepped it up to. -- you know you've got you you've gone outside of the box it's either and typically it's either David Ortiz or Alex here if so today's Alex in because they refuse to not break down the trade deadline like you can. And we are oral about a week out of the of the -- brought it really is a unique trade deadline we haven't seen anything like this the the landscape has changed because the new collective bargaining agreement. How the Red Sox have to approach things we haven't seen something like this a long long time whether you're you to talk about selling buying somewhere between. But -- I wanna focus on Alex is. What the Red Sox have in the Miley systems to trade another words the top five guys that teams would be asking for. And would they be willing to trade them in should they trade him and then we'll get into some of the players -- have been on the radar Josh Johnson Matt Garza -- were merits. Cool potentially could be in those deals and would you deal one of those top five guys. -- include a minute deal for the guys that we just mentioned. Because. The conversation has been. Should you give up one of these guys to either make a run at it this year or really the reality right is. Not this year everyone wants to focus on this here but we know the one thing we knew about the -- are approaching the trade deadline is more about this year. Right yeah more -- less about this. -- less about this here because you need to have an asset if you're going to give up a significant prospect. -- and you need to be able to have returned it's going to last beyond this year because the reality is that as of whatever today is July 24. The Red Sox are the eleventh best team in the American League they're going to have to leap -- seven other teams rather six other teams. If they want a secure one of those two wildcard spots. In so that being the case. It's it's really a situation where if they are going to give up long term assets it can't be for the short term because the reality is that they might not have a short term in. -- is it's a tricky situation because everyone uses that term blow it -- it's it is an either or and really is in use or because. The guys that -- -- -- -- identified as the equal uncle blow it up we can say OK Josh Beckett Jon Lester Jacoby Ellsbury David Ortiz. -- -- -- -- -- -- I mean. Anyone on the roster don't go away from talking about Pedroia but I -- -- than we had no rejoice as -- -- -- the core group of high priced players address. And the guys who -- under multi year deals and all of you also added Ortiz and Ellsbury and that -- yes so so expensive guys he had a sense of guys in and we can go down a list of why each of those guys aren't relief. But this not to get past time to trade any of them. And a lot of them because the value reasons you could package shoulder issue -- you -- performance issues wicked. And we've gone through David Ortiz you know YE he's a more valuable and valued the Red Sox sent. That another team. Salisbury. It is the fact is that this offseason is probably going to be the best time to stock prices through these healthy again for the long term write books and on active -- not after that none after that because then that team that -- and -- that it. The trap it. If they have and for the one Yemeni vis a free agent right so so -- complicated landscape I think you've hit on that yeah it is so so what we'll do is we'll focus in on. What everyone and he talks about which is what would you give up for these guys right and will go through the -- there's no one better to talk about whom. In the top five guys in the Red Sox farm system the teams would be identifying. And we're gonna re item and I'm gonna ask you to rate them in terms of one through five -- how the Red Sox view these guys in terms of in your opinion in terms of the willingness to give them in a deal so. It will start with who is the guy in the Red Sox farm system at the other team comes -- says you know what we want this guy within will be most reluctant to give up on. Well I don't know if I can answer that -- in the industry. One through five there are five guys who I can identify. The Red Sox would -- can't do one through three I don't well I don't know that I can so there -- so what you're saying is that there isn't 880 is always going to be fluid because you know the the -- it's being offered is always going to change. The you know whether or not you're willing to give up a -- -- position player is going to is going to is that change depending on what you're requiring back. So I think that would be a little bit tenuous and part of it is also how other teams value of those guys right because if if another team valued for instance Zander Bogart's. Beyond what the Red Sox -- valued him didn't even if he was their top guy in the system. They still wouldn't be dealing today they would still deal him because value would be -- -- greater than what they thought he was -- period. There is a question is that from the from the reds like point of view. Today you know each of these guys you're gonna talk about and -- alert alert you know they're gonna include names like Bogart's again include. Mean map Barnes. Go down analyst. Which of these guys in terms of the Red Sox future than what they need -- we know like for instance Jackie Bradley junior ready understand. -- very locks or elsewhere believes in whatever way. That Jackie Bradley junior if he continues on the road he's going. What's like he could be the year looks like he's going to be Major League ready to be a big league center fielder every day by 24 right -- Barnes is this not a lot of top of the rotation -- potential popular -- guys in the system. And so this is probably one of the guys who you say no way he could slot in top of the rotation guys. -- -- -- You have Jose Iglesias -- you're talking about more alien -- potentially -- shortstop. -- more likely someone who's going to end up moving off deposition in -- could mean Dave -- could go and any number of directions because he has via fanaticism. Two of played shortstop to this point so -- -- these are -- ask you this question is that of these guys that were talking about. Move for the Red -- future of -- building block who would you think that there is saying hey you know what we really don't wanna give up honest I think it's hardest for them to part with the starting pitching component because you see how difficult it is. To build starting pitching over time. You you know this is this what the Red Sox season has been about it is really really difficult to get elites. Elite starting pitching you've seen what happened when they needed it when they had to adapt. In the era in their pitching pipeline you know when they had that great run of you know Papelbon and Lester and Buchholz in time in Masterson for that matter. In Bard and then it let up and then all of a sudden they were off signing John Lackey inciting Josh Beckett to a four year extension. In ending you know and really putting themselves in a corner where they're spending very bad money. And even those opportunities you understand why they did it. Because there's such a dramatic scarcity. But -- pitching that's available whether via the trade market. Or view of the free agent market but that's what you have to build in your system the Red Sox are pretty enterprising when it comes to finding position players who might be undervalued. Who can give them some value back Cody Ross being great example you know a guy who who obviously. Was signed for nothing you know Australian box he's -- he's been one of the best most productive outfielders in the in all of baseball. It's much more difficult to do that with starting pitching particularly for those years when they're young in controllable. In inexpensive and healthy. Melissa the guys they've had to try to get that bridge a lot of them haven't worked out bright and and I'm not talking about Sloan prize yeah it's right -- of them the last of them Lackey in the back in Antarctica about. -- Brad I mean John Smoltz right there when you're right exactly right and so they have had a couple of reasons I mean I I do think that it's slightly -- that they had. And -- success with Erin cook for an. Yeah but the other thing was. With -- -- right as we sit here right now that's the case. -- we we have such a small sample size and we're talk for talk you vote to your point. Someone who keep it in -- brought maybe is a better example lived abroad is a guy as he as this -- progress has shown. That he might people for entire year be a legitimate guy who used to say you know what. This is a guy is important is the key that cornerstone guy in our in our rotation or is he part of the is -- a map Barnes or some of these other guys in terms upside I don't know. But -- did it go back to what we're talking about so. You said starting pitching. Starting pitching is on what they're gonna value the most I mentioned map bond that you have another name who you think might even eclipse -- bonds in terms of they're prioritizing keeping guys. Well Matt Barnes the industry values very high he's a guy who was a first round pick for them in 2011. Very highly regarded. He came out of the issue with that and tremendous performance. Burst in Greenville -- that and high Salem so there's there's an there's an understanding he's a guy right. Who had other teams would it would understand that he's the centerpiece guy. Henry Owens I think is perhaps the most interesting pitcher in the Red Sox system right now he's a guy who leads all of Minor League Baseball and strikeouts per nine innings. But that's obscured a little bit by the fact that he's in single a Greenville even though that's actually pretty advanced level form because he's nineteen years old in his first full professional season. But nonetheless. He's leading all of minor league based on strikeouts he has an incredible understanding of pitching. Richard now if you listen to down last -- down I don't know that yet they do -- but indeed the -- the award winning yes award winning what do I win your best and I'll I didn't wanna spoil sport about it is -- -- I was like lunch -- it him. I'm holding out I'm holding out right here. No but Owens he has a high ERA he's only in single a Greenville -- hasn't. Quote -- dominated the competition per say but he's dominated. Throughout most of most of his outings and so he's had a -- have like. Four great innings Mitchell you know punch out two batters in the inning they'll have one inning that's picked up. Where a couple of infield singles and infield singles and the most interesting thing to track him and I literally just got a dozen other podcast or another they want to present our podcasts on infield Siemens medical field and him understanding blind scores of but a minor league pitchers. But anyway. Will have a hiccup -- where he. You know where he walks a couple guys gives a double infield singles a home run boom so a four spot assembly hung up by I'm so there -- a point this year where where Henry Owens had. Like -- two when he ERA in the fourth inning. It's like a sub one ERA. In the -- and over the rest of the games that he was throwing. Which is just kind of a normal progression for young pitcher but. It's against him as the Red Sox think that he's an incredibly advanced and pitcher. He's shown a big uptick in velocity since he gotten a pro ball he's bumping 9495 at times even though is more comfortably sitting. It 9092 and he has this incredible feel for pitching. He has a really good ability -- -- ball and he has what was described as an exceptional changeup I mean but perhaps the best swing and miss pitch in the Red Sox system right now. So you put all those things together and you think that might be a Frontline starter I've had Red Sox officials. Tell me that he might be the best prospect period in their system okay so so the reality is that other teams might not see it that way which means that is going to be very difficult to get. What you would consider fair value I was told. For instance for Henry -- Matt Garza is not good enough as a centerpiece of a deal Matt Garza because he's only under control for a year and a half height isn't good enough. So I might -- After they read what you write. Yeah other organizational value here much much more or after they listed down the better they think that they'll they'll think that someone was you know it was blowing smoke him that I am merely. A mouthpiece for organizational manipulation that's a trade deadlines all about right -- but I think I think that you can sift through the information to find the reality. The situation in every scenario I've -- this this is reality the matrix do you know this is the reality that reliving -- Henry Leo and is a top of the rotation Major League pitcher and a couple years but it's it's gonna it's gonna. We meet to my question and we'll go through we're gonna focus on Josh Johnson back cars -- I don't wanna focus on him and her manners I said Hanley Ramirez earlier put. What do -- onto -- Hanley Ramirez whatever how far the world has come yellows you know. Interject briefly before we get to the two guys who you fund relevant via -- do you think that it's insisting that were summarily dismissing Cole Hamels. You know Zack Greinke. And and you can explain why you're discussing them yet it's just as rental guys they just make no sense for this -- sixteen you do not want to give up. Probably even. Kind of a second tier prospect such as let's say a let's say -- -- a not a Jackie Bradley junior but let's say like a Brandon Jacobs and you'd wanna give up a second tier prospect like that. For a guy who. You know for it in order to invest in just the 2012 team and then lose the guy in free agency have nothing -- you know -- so for now which is obvious he would change from years past and the draft pick compensation has changed and in the Red Sox standings change because they're not that good are they now -- though. You can put on your right if if there was by the old rules that we might be I mean defeat discussion absolutely because those that two draft Dixon and and we can go to on the list of why this is so valuable. Jackie Bradley junior example that Adrian Beltre compensations. So forth and so on. But so so we are we are dismissing me Hamels the Greinke and doubt about you you're not gonna be part of this podcasts are. I will say I will interjected when they go talk to Cole Hamels forbid one thing that is underrated. I think it hasn't gotten enough attention this is a guy who is desperately wanted to be a free agent for so long and he told me that the reason that he signed. Out of high school in that he wanted to be drafted out of high school was so we could get to free agency faster what eighteen year old. It's like yeah. I had to develop now well. -- a good -- for it and I just haven't 48 instead of thirty year. Thirty line while it might work out where he might not revel in the fruits of free agency he might sign with the Phillies but he's gonna get a creating contracts though. Whoever that with my in my IP before the year ends but still a factor is that. It's a free agent contract to mission accomplished for Cole Hamels put another way is -- -- them spoke. It you add Dan Hewitt can take the words right out of my mouth I think there were words. So we're gonna focus just Johnson and Matt Garza and obviously some other names might. Into the mix as we go through trade deadline. But we've identified the two guys who we think there are probably prioritize the most by the Red Sox and Matt Barnes. And and Rio and because of their position because of their performance everything else. Do you. Include either one of those in a deal for either one Josh Johnson or Mac -- Nope not me I don't do it I think that the value of there are there are red flags associated with both with both Garza to a lesser degree I guess. I'm Tim Johnson but Johnson has the history of shoulder problems he has back problems he's a huge frame guy. Whose son who's obviously. He can be a -- he can be incredible he can be about as good as there as as there is in the majors but. You know if you view the value of this year being you know being fairly low then is one year of just Johnson. If you can't extend him which I guess is the wild card because you know that was teetering Gonzales conundrum right -- at -- traded for one year of him. At a below market salary which is great for them but that may extend them for some more years which is why it made sense. To give up long term assets but if you're just acquiring Johnson for the next year and a half. In do you think. How much is he going to impact the Red Sox over the rest of this pennant race. Minimally may be. You know he could have a significant impact on the next year. If healthy it's been a few years since he's made more than 28 starts he's been healthy thus far this year he's shown electric stuff. But there is there's kind of a red flag sitting there with him. In to my mind. The long term asset is so valuable. We're getting back to a conversation about Owens being more valuable than than a Matt Garza type distance. To my mind you would want to have the guy who's under control. You know closer look like a GO Gonzales circumstance but you know kind of may be better and more dominant in GO. At the time of trading for him a guy with. With fewer -- so I'd know for me to get you know to get one in the third years of just Johnson nor Matt Garza in exchange for one of those two building block pitchers. That's taking even if you in this say they were going mindset that they say you know while we get per year and a half. We get a chance to see what he's about your chance to have them work -- whatever shoulder program and and through physical conditioning that we want them to go through. And we like what we see -- so we're gonna extend them. And you're by you do that you're talking about investing another multi multi multi year contract right. At fifteen years sixteen year I'll probably more than that he's good if he's good over that time and you know -- Beckett was four and six he'd be worthwhile so and so is the interesting thing news and going through to those looking at the contracts of the teams who were doing really well that was due diligence yes it is I've bears that have -- contracts dot Blogspot dot com. Cots contract which I recommend highly. -- -- male owned by baseball protest it makes you very it's very very Smart for at least a minute. -- that but. But the interesting thing is I was looking at -- in practice obviously two guys who they've invested heavily in although Lester only make seven half this year but long term. You know throughout you -- -- forty million dollar contract it's it's investing in something. So Beckett Lester these guys have under -- thirteen point three this year when when it if it. You look at the other teams and so I want to see who were the guys who by the pop. Top paid guys in each rotation. And you see that not a lot of teams are investing heavily. In to starting wrote in the starting pitching the Phillies are there are exception honestly. But even the Yankees the Yankees have sabathia are a huge contract but then the next one this Kuroda. Right not that's not a huge contract your bio one what does a one year ten million dollar. So. So my point is is that the Red Sox win they. Invested in this group is starting pitching there was this of the foundation right these these are the guys or we're gonna run -- then. Not a lot of people argue with that because of the performance that they had but as we sit here right now it's easy to argue with. So the point is is that. Are they might be going away from this model like a lot of teams because you can you have buckles committed to 2017. -- fine. You Lester packet. Don after 2014. Commitment ends. -- with -- say you like but is that they have the after they have the they can have the right they can have them -- -- in 2000 prize for 2015 so. But what is wrong with the Red Sox and this is approach him very well may take days. We have buckles. You know you have the other guys they're gone yeah how buckle subsidized through 2017. Then now okay we're gonna -- -- too -- -- to fill in with. And you -- I don't think should be just cast in that in that role of villain because I do think that we're seeing. You know you you can't ignore the strike out numbers that he's achieving at this age as a pitcher. Competing against the stiffest competition in particular if you look at what he's been able to do. In most of his outings against the AL east it's really pretty darn -- I saw it in Ireland dismissive and me if you listen if he's a Major League pitcher mr. imitation. And he's done what he's done and then he's a valuable valuable allies like a number three right exactly shown the stuff of a number three so. But -- with Josh Johnson. They get him and they like what they see what they go down that road of giving him the contract that he's coming debt and if they are gonna go down that road. To your point that it's not worth it it's not worth it because. You -- you have guys who you looking couldn't control especially we know the red side not to get too much into it but we know the Red Sox how hamstring BR because of the guys they've already invested -- And so you need any flexibility you can get. And -- -- Johnson would continue to limit death like. Right I mean the thing is ever on suspect you can extend them well you're kind of getting into the same problem that you got into a new extended and I guess that's my employee I'm much shorter version amnesia. Like he'll be by the end of by the time that he's eligible for free agency again you're going to talk about the age. Let's say that he's looking for our five year deal which is reasonable given what the starting its market has been in assuming that he's healthy going toward. He'd be looking for a five year deal covering the ages of let's say thirty to 34 maybe even longer than that. And a baseline I would say of twenty million dollars a year and you're going to have some bad money -- that contract in that again and kind of getting to the flawed model. It's been so problematic for the Red Sox that the rays have ignored completely. And wildly successfully. In order to become a really really perennial power because of their pitching look at what DA's are -- granted it's a different markets different division don't care. They're doing this with homegrown pitching they find guys they've they've. Filled with a from within and then they move the assets because they see the guys were going to be you know we're going to decline. At the time and they become really expect. Even Texas I mean entice you look at Texas and Feldman I think is its second highest paid pitcher in Darvish right. Who yet -- so Darvish is the guy the -- -- wasn't going to be the guy may -- if they got closely right so there are willing to go there willingly to address the one guy like the Yankees and then you know Harrison's gonna come off the -- they might have to pay him. By at the point that they have guys coming behind but that's the downright mean you mentioned the rays and so our team's gonna continue this while you have the one guy. But you can't do with the Red Sox did where you use today were gonna invest so much of the payroll. In the foundation of the that the rotation it sounds good right you know because he's we don't have to worry about that anymore but the it's sold whole -- That it today it is. It's almost we've almost been proven to not be worth it put another way. Roy freaking Halladay just missed two months with an injury -- -- freaking Halladay misses time with injury when he's in his early thirties that's not a good time to invest in pitchers now because that guy. Is like the closest we've come. To indestructible. With his little hair -- tonight now that. Freaky stuff you know that. I don't fortress of solitude if you -- Valero and it's not working out yeah I do listen it is not every pitch. I mean JD translator didn't work now now you know PS your ass machine -- bully me how to do this not happened I thought I thought -- you we uncovered all these contraptions that that was going to be the solution to the problem down. Yeah to prepare chambers. Where have you gone my friend. This and the whole -- yes I think -- a cricket. So so let's get to the chase so we said okay map Matt Barnes and Owens had Rio and these guys are worth trading for these guys that we identify -- those do don't I I takers dudes off the table may need to build starting pitching yes so does it change. With this identify these three guys -- couple more guys said they're probably gonna be next -- -- last year Bogart's. Jim Bradley junior and I'd throw middle Brooks in their because all teams are going to ask about them okay middle Brooks not a place is so. Well no doubt the guy has a 300 -- He's an impact glove at this point. But clearly the offense is so limited. That he's not ever going to be viewed unless there's something dramatic that happens as anything more than kind of a -- level -- the gag Lacey is priced brands. You know we mentioned Brandon Jacobs. -- -- -- to stick to the guys Bradley junior. -- and middle except okay. We've already said Barnes Owens out. They're not doing it we're not including them as much -- put it and I do think in correct me if if you don't think differently but Johnson may be is although a different leveling Garza in terms of a threat at least in terms of ceiling yes now. This year if you look at their numbers that are pretty similar and in fact the one thing -- -- the one thing I would caution is. Holy smokes you go and check out what dealt with Josh Johnson splits are for home vs road in that home ballpark where they -- Those are on -- and his giant Marlins like -- -- technicolor in light. People think they're freaking out -- -- -- -- -- -- came there and I couldn't believe it was like Oakland that night -- it was a big ball did not -- so he has wanna say that he has like -- six plus CRA on the -- this. Yeah and and I talked Disco last night and he says he was very high interest Johnson. And he said listen you know once this guy gets away from that injuries and entries. As he gets further away and we -- recent outing that was tight kind of what the potential -- Johnson has the further he gets away from it that's the better but you can't say that because he keeps having injuries right. So right even though he's been healthy from the belt this year yes you know that's to his credit but yes again that kind of creates a red flag so so what are so -- this year's been better than that Johnson. Yeah and maybe we dismiss him because we know. Right semi nude that we we know what he is we've seen him in this division in the he has a three and a -- -- -- the American League east he can't discount that. He legitimate number two or three starter -- trying to nail is done in the post season. So yes so you can't you can't dismiss that. Bottom but the three the three got into rivals say that like Red Sox officials love it. Yeah you know Red Sox players -- -- the world of him Red Sox officials love them they love the make up they love the fact that there's -- known quantity there. Who except for this weird forearm cramping and happened. Very inconveniently for processors triceps and in his most recent outing. And it's pushed back his next start. You know he's he he's been a very healthy guy. And he's been known quantity used and it was just who you know shove it down the throats of somebody you know 28. Anyway I think that the perception around here is that backers but on forever he's he's probably at least thirty based when he ate them and so. It's in prime -- yes so Bogart's middle Brooks and Bradley junior right include would you include any of those guys and deal for either one of those guys know. No no. And nope nope nope okay yeah I'm ma I I don't think that you know I I think. Again you're getting into the year and a third so let's put it another way. Middle Brooks for instance the Red Sox have the -- -- need to maybe use him as the centerpiece of a deal for GO Gonzales this past offseason in the past and that was due Gonzales who's going to who is. Had all of his all of his. Is arbitration control -- in front of him three full years of GO Gonzales. Past that's how -- they regard middle right so you're talking about half the time. For one of these other guys so I think that middle Brooks pretty clearly is cemented himself as part of the Red Sox futuristic is that. You think that's safe to say. Yeah well it is it leads me to kind of when I was gonna say next which is with all three of these guys. There is. Besides their talent and production that is now legitimate reason why they're important to the team going Ford. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Is he settles -- -- with that is isn't position. But ours is the back. No no short but about if you if you know the guys still we say oh he been more morph into a third baseman by he still has yet to play third base right and so. There's always that opening it shortstop with a Red Sox and if the if that works out it works out but I agree. You know that's that's much I think we're agreeing on the same point right to position the waterway and I put it -- important week. We are an agreement which I feel very good about the unity -- it. So yes I agree in agreement on my on the fact I'm getting allowance let's you are -- certainly can violence it's not every every. But he comes on the -- -- -- his once. I'm your first -- I think this before so that's that's fair pay fifty genachowski alliance good for him yes this is for him there to -- to -- -- the so. Three very got a three important guys to ready to rentals and this is why we once again agree that you do not include these deals and eat for any forward Josh Johnson or Matt Harris. Let's look back to in the Red Sox last really pushed their chips in the middle of the table and they built for pitching. OK we have two examples is sort we have guess we have three examples from the last decade or so -- from last fifteen years that are that are worth noting. One Josh Beckett when they made the trade with the Marlins and -- sent him there in the first place back it was -- when he five. You know back it had -- it had a year and a half controller rather those two full seasons of control remaining. In the Red Sox had a decent sense. That he was pretty sizeable and at that time the pitching market was much more appealing won the idea of signing a 2526. Year old. To a long term deal was much more appealing in signing a 29 or thirty year old to such contract so. Different circumstances different kind of guy two full seasons as opposed to the one. Then rolled to roll back the clock a little bit more. Curt Schilling obviously that was more of a rental player even though they were able to extend them if they were getting up there Casey Fossum and and -- Michael -- -- Michael got elected to -- your idea Michael Geist is not a baseball -- way to the story was they've -- that when now when one of the Red Sox front office guys heard about heard about. The the Diamondbacks offering essentially that package of players he said -- the press conference. And so Schilling was initially was no brainer low cost no high impact prospects they kept their Papelbon. Hanley Ramirez Jon Lester -- prospects didn't touch that surface. So the third the third one is Pedro. And he again was 25 year old guy and obviously hundreds of -- demonstration but. You know he was 25 years old entering the prime of his career having already won cy -- having been healthy having a meeting with throwing like. 400 innings a year in Montreal something. The exchange -- it was different then of course but -- yes Pedro in the cost of it was Carl Pavano. Who was you know who is a pretty well regarded young starting pitcher before he had -- I've got into the troubles with the law. Department and in what Tony Armas junior who is the guy who they'd gotten for Mike Stanley. Earlier that your that was a dumb job by the by the Expos in some respects I mean. Two prospects neither of whom was was like delete -- lead I think -- and it was that you're regarded by a group. -- -- A bravado was you know like top ten top Yemeni provide known Brian rose where were even though Brian rose -- I never get the Brian hosting can you talk about -- throwing guy with a with a big curve ball who. You know he just seemed like a guy who would could really dominate Purdue well in -- way right and so anyway but. Yes I mean. The history of these in two things he do you said are really one thing with 25 years old yeah I mean those it would mean if people forget. That that's how all these guys when they traded Foreman now. You're getting to -- a little older in in -- get a little more into the paying these guys and everything else and I think that's one of the things that. That you have to factor in what you're gonna get after next year and whether. And that's even if they sign these guys what are you gonna get after next year is it going to be worth what you gave up. Yeah I'm with you I I think that I really think that there's such a dramatic difference between the young and affordable and cheap to -- path to starting pitching. Vs the incredibly high priced you know I mean again it kind of gets two packets most recent extension or you're 68 million dollars the returns thus far. You know even though he was for about. Three quarters of last year he was in the running you know 56 feet and he was among the best starters the American League. You know what happened last September when he was injured what happened this year in which he's been injured on multiple occasions in which his performance has been. Less consistent which were seen decline a fastball velocity that's the cautionary tale for these guys like Josh Johnson and like Mack Garza even if you did one -- extend them that. Not everything is necessarily -- if you do that you'd be paying a lot of money to do it. And she'd just in the return to might not be. Worth worth the worth the cost of putting on the table and I realized that that means -- that lends itself to have you know kind of spaces when it comes to the trade front. But I think that the moves that you maker those not for pitchers we get for a year and a half now but instead may be for like two full years three full years. Two and a half full years you know bet that kind of length -- longer again that you Gonzales of the world maybe. And even then the Red Sox were blocking -- and giving a middle Brooks Russian player. Right wobbly carted off here because you know why because I wanna get this up on the site as quick as possible because. It in and about an hour they might trade Jackie Bradley junior for Mac cars and I'll feel really stupid and Henry owns a -- Andrea on -- in -- because you pass it because. When you have such a kickass podcasts as we get six computed I wanna punctuated this -- so slow. -- this end it there and will be back with more trade deadline awesome -- in future. But thank you and just go have lunch on me Alex yes.

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