Jun 17, 2011|
In the latest episode of Talking Hoops, WEEI.com's Paul Flannery is joined by Bethlehem Shoals the founder of FreeDarko.com and co-author of The Undisputed Guide to Pro Basketball History. Flannery and Shoals put a wrap on the 2010-11 season by examining the Heat, LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki and NBA narratives, while also pondering the future of Rajon Rondo.
Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.
And now. Own WEEI guns come. No ordinary everything you wanted to know about the Boston Celtics in the sport around bowling general Bolden one blaze Duncan moved with the whole plenary -- WEEI. John. That threatens to bring you straight weeks for the top of its. Let's -- it over. There's not a whole lot of fish. -- -- -- -- -- -- We're gonna have to -- wins. My good friends the Daniel Freeman AKA Bethlehem shoals who should need no introduction to who fans out there. A retirement the season that we just had before it before it disappears forever lot of things that lot of things go and line and -- I hate to keep -- -- how are you by the way. I've got a little flabbergasted that uses you know we realize you referred to me as someone that would help but have some fun. Outlet that flies I think that you probably -- -- from ivory -- and an excellent. Perk up at -- thought I -- enjoy I enjoy talking you I -- I say we have to the listening audience out there I think we communicate more -- email than any other than any other medium. As I often send like 500 emails do you any given day an adult cartoons like a month. That's sort of our relationship but anyway. Well we have we have we have -- the same city or you know hurt. That's true -- and which in the stated passes for you know quote her. You have been in my kitchen which basically defines friendship for me it's -- pocket and Aaron this -- this -- stroke. I have but you are out of Seattle and we have. An NBA season that just finished that. Frankly I'm a -- tired of it and yet I'm still fascinated by it if that makes any kind of sends -- I hate to keep bringing up the heat but I think that's really where restart because this is what this whole season has been about. -- you have heat fatigue at this point -- -- -- are still more that you feel like you can add to this to this growing story. Well it's really funny to me about the -- he narrative is. I think during the playoffs I've written -- number of places I think it did during the playoff actually. Played. They played so well they played -- such as convincing honorable manner everywhere and sort of finally understood what made their defense that great. And LeBron clearly assert itself in the position got -- VP you know I think they actually became I don't say underdogs. Are you victims of -- people who were seen -- victims and their room narrative that may not have been. -- they're doing but I think they became you know somewhat admirable you didn't have to hate the heat. But it then that you and I think that was kind of -- -- the department of writing but they eat that much in the -- play out for the simple fact that they were just a very good team that. Has -- making the finals but. We get really you know gonna happen there but no you know they weren't if they didn't even. They didn't have that doubt that they would they had that -- -- -- delegate to the finals is the final all of sudden you did everything to be yet. If BS. -- you -- -- ripped apart the root for the new narrative or fifteen seconds. And I -- in the finals that when they really he allowed everything to come back -- It's beautiful purple the last summer. To the decision to that celebration because I think it's hard to go and of all the people tuning in who had -- no basketball until the finals. And -- may remember. It last summer and you know and get to where I think would make -- he's and so we're. Not only do you get the fact is you have the fact that I think to be paid no attention to -- it -- -- -- writing or saying during finals just because. The way people talk and write about -- -- -- -- you hateful people is just so silly. And so not even worse. Be your time iPad is not even about that -- about. How they feel about the world around them and they have now become the team that you can project anything you want on any given moment. You know it they've made it basically become I'm not trying to say that they are the first black president but they're almost like they -- Obama at the mid terms the have been BA BA. You think it's something mean you -- say and then twist everything around there it. And I'm not saying those things I'm not saying there admiral are great people my commitment is perfect but the things that about them. -- -- it has nothing he -- -- you people decide what they're gonna write about what they think about them before they even want to packet that you're insult column start. People are crucified LeBron decided let's go back and watch the -- but really I -- do you think that the good idea if you're gonna crucify someone you might wanna take another look at the actual. Footage you're gonna crucified in the debate is that. It -- without that you know they were outlook two parallel universe that during the finals you have ballots the very basketball team. Winning a basketball tournament and a unity he. I don't even really know that that the basketball story I don't know we think of them as you know -- currently sport story but. That the whole thing about LeBron disappearing act it is that. -- not -- it it fits into the airport because it makes no sport that it's only something that we feel like we can talk about it sort of like weird soap -- term because we can't. Account for it. In the way we usually do with it because he's you know he's an unstoppable basketball player that somehow. -- -- does admit that make no I am totally renovate that make absolutely no sense. From like get x.s and o.s standpoint the bad and other and the ultimate act -- -- to. Right it it it doesn't make any sense in the heat. Never really made sense is a basketball team in any -- book kind of construction which is what the people who like us who folk who follow the season you know year in year out. We've we've focused on well they're not running -- -- high pick and rolls and that's not that's not your real house but you know a lot of -- -- and you know Abu who's going to be in the rotation and and can Mike Miller how often does -- we talked rather in basketball terms. At and they completely ceased being a basketball team as you say once and it wasn't in the celtics' series there was no sort of you know Miami drama drama going on around -- I can't really remember any of it in the -- series of of their may have been something here -- there but. All of a sudden they get the finals and it's it's oh my gosh Dwyane Wade and LeBron James or coughing they're making fun of Dirk Nowitzki and you know there's always -- Ridiculous things and then. To throw it all together. The basketball stuff where LeBron simply stops playing for whatever reason. Just ties and everybody's hatred of -- of of who they think LeBron is a person it's exhausting chills. It's exhausting. That -- -- -- by opening monologue about it you know what I think is so worried about though that though is. I mean it I I you know an effective and has to understand the vaccine could benefit from -- -- I think involved I think what went so it seemed I was. During. But about this series -- it's it's a complicated theory because the -- optimism and I'll remember LeBron did. It was not exactly you know you get off Scott free he was basically. You know given is like five minutes of hell -- -- being emotional -- to an atmosphere that's that's since you know. I don't know and that about a and that and I didn't defend LeBron because usually I feel like doing that almost has to -- contrary but in this case it does need but for but it what the point of explaining why LeBron. Being overcome with emotion after beating him you know that the older team that he can't get past. By that if I like five seconds and that is it. Not to the terrible thing but I think with everything that would use thought especially in Chicago especially with -- coming on your finger like. Who's gonna take the last shot well in basketball terms we start to realize that didn't matter because. It. They could basically go and -- -- weighed enacted then destabilize the defense in a way that allowed LeBron that you all the things you're good at. And open up the -- for -- And today in this all the that we go right back the crap we're -- at the beginning to hear about like who the Michael Jordan of the heat and the Scottie Pippen -- think. He is the bulls series to me was this is what this team actually is capable of at its best. When we went there went the way they use the weapons they've got in the hardest -- possible. I'm not quite sure how this course changed back to -- again that you apartheid the audience changed but how we got away from you know I think a lot of upper really. Satisfied with it because we -- felt like we were seeing the a team that was a representative of what we all kind of and not one of them to be at least thought okay well they're gonna do this let's at least you can put together an amazing team and then. I think it you know you you get is a distraction element I mean what the fact that people suddenly changed the way everything around it even being discussed for the final. Did that so they contribute to the fact that they. He's the -- in the same way as a basketball team that single bit of -- stretch but the timing of a little weird means they'll look at it you'll what are they how they can not be somewhat. Distracted or bill -- Are worn down or that being in the final this stressful anyway. He you know being being you know being. Being play being LeBron who has who has you know with constant questions. And about his legacy of this kind of assumption that he's -- you know you need to start winning titles pronto or the product that would be up for any player. And then on top of that you have a basically like a vendetta against them that they expect the last years so it's like I don't see how that aptly. You can't have that added that the -- there. It's it's true history and -- is a good point I mean these these media narratives that. A lot of us sort of -- that because they seemed just you know constructed out of whole cloth basically. But the players them. And they fall to them and they listened to them and you know -- I can remember last year during the finals when there was a weird question asked of Gasol about Garnett who -- vary. Good general other well reason nuanced answer about well of course Kevin Garnett has losses that were getting older everybody does and it was clear by watching and that he had. That was then packaged and translate to Garnett that said Gasol said that you've lost a step in your -- And -- united BK -- on the whole life of its own when none of that actually. Really sort of happened it was just the way it was transferred from the media from one player in the next across the hall. You know and so it's it's amazing to me that the players do kind of fall for these narratives that like. You know I don't know what was going on brought -- that that game five games are game six is very strange because. He came out you know on fire and then got so completely passive and it was like you -- is he worried about this is thinking about this what's the what's going on inside his head. And you couldn't help but think that the narratives had somehow gotten to him in a way and that's that's he's weaker. That at the same time meat -- flip side of that is as much as we've been projecting an activity. We have no idea how LeBron James thinks what he thinks the back immediately clearly you know he let let -- he does not have like -- lately that the -- mentality. I think though that doesn't necessarily mean that -- like. Folding her guilty of horrible power as -- but of the heat -- we just don't realize understand what happens in the brain at the end of the game. Clearly in some cases he's done just fine at the end of close games you know. It's not like this is someone who isn't and that's what so what am because Billy about it is you know -- five. Disappearing in -- of -- final -- team is bad. But the plenty of other players have done stuff like that it's just you know the sense of perspective -- is something we're not allowed to have anymore. It was perfect and I think there was a victim of the same thing in part in a -- of -- it was sort of wholly different kind of -- no one thought about Dirk Nowitzki. Really that much outside of sort of a hardcore basketball world. Except for when you get people remember -- -- remember that the final. But lost and then maybe they are watching as warrior David because there that a certain amount of buzz around them -- because. Right now that was MVP season when he loses the first record confirming to everyone that he's a loser. -- -- that -- -- -- -- -- like that you know one of the things that sound so funny that there are tremendous as these it is yet Dirk playing exceptionally well. But -- had a pretty distinguished career and the idea that all of a sudden now because people decided pay attention. He deserves credit for things as ludicrous it's kind of like you know. And if it does this does not -- I don't feel we're gonna if you like the media because that means you know -- -- your car part of it means. It let it -- they. You know and I want something like like. Whatever studio crew -- areas. And I didn't hear them saying things like are they saying things because this is like the red meat they do that. Sports fans who want. And is that somehow you know. And at this same kind of sports fans criticize people like after being -- about sports and yet you know by the same sort of logic themselves. So partly -- eloquently -- who are whose dog is being wagged -- it is like -- like this. It is like a mutual agreement that Dolan baby necessary even like that much to be as dumb as. OK. With that is not gonna go to like ten different directions but. Let me let me -- -- question and I should really -- -- a slight reference and I have a competition to -- -- but it turned down for the mostly pitches. It is losing. The best thing that ever happened to LeBron is losing his championship the specific championship the best thing to have a brother and I'll tell you -- covering this up ultimate question what you meant. And what you talk guessed that that because. For ever since he's come and lead LeBron has been able to sort of defy whatever path has been laid out for every superstar going all the way back. -- had to do it Jordan had to do at least the modern air. They had to it they had struggled they had to it you know collect themselves need to get to a certain point realize they had to go farther. And it hasn't been that way for LeBron especially when. He joined forces with wade and bosh there was sort of circumvent the whole team building process cores super team on the fly and if you -- and to sort of validates this whole notion that. You know the rules are different for LeBron. -- now whether he likes that are non. He's now been put in the situation where he has to overcome yes that overcomes this bitter -- and you concede the soft focus features. You know the next year there is next year. Are taken shape about how he's grown up and maturity and learn and maybe maybe that'll be complete nonsense but. You know in terms of having a setback like this such a public failure may wind up ultimately helping him. Become I don't know a clause like normal basketball players haven't said Steve at all. It has yet I -- of -- I'm an and an act. Counter move you're here. You guys act like that you guys did go on the record by saying that I don't you know I know some people play there I think. Incredibly sensitive about being thought of it and doing -- that I think it's more that they want to try -- story that maybe. We the conventional -- say are -- but you're and you're right -- they're sometimes that you put up stuff where it seems like they just put in whatever people think instead of the -- but they're they're aware of -- -- that this -- at a joke about that the perfect place to inspect it dates. They again I don't think that they're bad about it because they have a little like. Uncomfortable -- like -- we don't want to be doing that we had been that the value in trying to like that you're not ready yet the want to bring up is not. I think it -- this -- thing you know it's not like -- on the state ludicrous -- that. It's it's funny I think it -- indictment honestly have like. Out of how people generally think about sports. That you could put an end it's kind of the opposite of whatever what else is saying it is actually used -- the at least apple -- it would have been. I think what you're gonna -- and every single network any and everything -- basically -- brought I think the problem with it though if you do still have the 2010 series where. Either this that he did arguably the same thing although -- Whatever and no one believes you would you say that if you bring this up he was a lot more injured than he let on at the time which you know explained why he never went inside to be construed as -- every have a -- up people say. Oh yeah what several -- injured he says soft. For example a site I found out from -- you know he says I couldn't straighten my arm during that series and you don't have a lot of explains well plot widely used by the that's hitting the line. Doesn't explain that this that this -- this summit with Syria but I think that particularly -- that -- and he could be you know he blew it and now he's basically keep down to. That said you know I think people are willing -- -- it would have been willing to excuse. I don't think everything necessarily. I think it disappearing. Is what people. And I -- credit -- I guess what -- what -- panic and I feel like it is very much about just disappearing in the final. And that disappeared get the Celtics it was a weird and everything but. It didn't seem to paint his legacy. In the same way people didn't seem to be things like no promises were probably there. Where is very LeBron now actually as you know it's like Dirk had LeBron now has this flight. Being hangover have. The problem though is that you are going to be unlike dark. Who just disappeared into the shadows for the next you know. After that weren't -- mr. -- the shadows for her four year. LeBron is going to be an even bigger story down here because of this and the heat are going to be better than they were this year we're probably gonna create -- team that from the very beginning. No matter who's coaching them -- a lot more like he did it. At their best point the play out that they did it. Either in you know there were restricted the final or and although what we're doing include the game during the regular season -- they won by 25 points but somehow wondered if they actually really -- realized they were on the same room together. And that that's the problem it's like we're not to be able to escape from the LeBron story long enough to actually get a perspective on it it's going to be like beat up the opening game of the season. That he he has is going to be scrutinized if we take you ready south it's gonna be like LeBron decided -- -- -- he went it would take over the he's a lot of over compensating. You know. It is this site you know. -- I am -- the babbling at the. I doubt that you -- that you you raise the viewpoint and inaction has been segue off of off of LeBron in tune into a dark -- -- right. It's into Dirk Nowitzki because you know having covered Garnett. When he showed up and and -- Some some weird parallels between Garnet Nowitzki and other they're completely different players and and make their votes on different ends of the floor you -- Just in terms of the astronaut Garnett switched teams split. That that struggle where your career as greens it is ultimately becomes defined by whether -- -- Buick championship which is. The -- lowest common denominator in the NBA and I'm not sure it exists in any other sport with the exception of an NFL quarterback. I don't think I don't think any other any other sport guys continue to be a brilliant pitcher never get to World Series and. President and I did an attractive are greatly affect. Exactly share itself. You have Dirk Nowitzki who persevered and you know he was not a good team news on a good team spent money it wasn't like. They you it was like a Minnesota situation where they were where Dallas was just completely and captain and never surround him players. But I I it's I got a sense and -- this. Probably I I don't -- would have had the same sort of feeling of appreciation for what he did if I had not been around Garnett is the point of making that. This guy you noted that some sort of sort of strange but I mean I was I was I was happy for him even though I've never actually. Met him and spoken to -- briefly at various you know pressing engagements. I was very happy for Dirk Nowitzki winning a championship that I -- I didn't expect myself to feel quite that we want what was your feeling on. On -- Nowitzki was there in the playoffs. Yeah I mean -- I it will one I think by the time he had he wanted to. Music paid into the heat or focus on the negative that I was just so. Is there. A candidate site I -- and so or are ready like I know exactly what's gonna happen -- The kind of my reaction been to the better but it muted even though my wife and you've met with sitting in the living ripped up and of the dancer because it's in Dallas. It that Derek Derek did you know that -- under the gun that they have in common they are very likeable players your recent ban. And a Garnett I think it was a little stronger because he had this air being the top of a competitor. You don't just being so it had been gone so Arnold have an all the because everyone knew his team that had been so he'll woefully undermanned through the years. Derek you know people knew that there he was the big guy except -- pointers as people we've got a bunch of high -- people that didn't really work out but I think get the end of the day. It's partly to about you know these players getting older and not getting older and you look back at you realize that. And it may be what we what we may be as people who like basketball most of may be guilty of you don't really realize this guy has been a major part of the sport but I love for the past you know. I have it have -- uses it now like to -- it. -- -- -- Right so that's why that fourteen years. -- and you know that. I've watched tons of I would. Battered games over a year there's an -- bit of maverick forever we actually heard -- at its heart it it's really interesting because he's the player where. In the same way that people but it didn't really. Stand up and think wait a minute it's a great until -- play up front I think a lot of -- a lot of it didn't realize how much we like dark. And how much excitement. And as fans of the game until. We actually not get a ring and it was like you know what this this isn't my favorite player of the universe but is an important part of this sport and yeah it's it's good if it's likely that it's it's that's. It it's an anomaly almost with a championship. -- that this makes it all the more cool when someone. Actually get one because -- never not because approved of as a player you know make them work violently human being. They -- because it's it's a nice thing to have happen to them and you know. What an analog trivial idea being -- -- -- -- of flowers. But it has said that that kind of a level which would work it's you know it's like Bravo for you -- -- we don't hates you. You had a good career that would give way of I think -- type that I was but it that I talked about a lot was with that -- know what part about whether or not hit the water. Which which is it weird but I also wonder that doesn't -- the thing about how we all feel about it and it too. I don't think -- any any. They think it has a long history of people being deeply ambivalent about it not not might get as like. Right away there that they keep eyes but imagination but in others -- that the beauty go to the reason -- it is. Appealing -- appealing it. Where there could sit he would he gave the night sky to guide it to he would have to form. It was in response suit I thought the way it happened because there's a guy he yet I really actually I enjoyed his walk off the court. You know and for almost anybody else you'd you'd -- -- pregnant currently pregnant killed for like you know. But it was so that was real it was like him walking up the court was I don't want it ruins the you know -- break down -- Whatever whatever you know he kept bottled up all losers look like Garnett yelling anything is possible or whatever. Just because I mean joke on -- and he's gonna walk the earth like -- and come through I mean uses like -- parents. Cingular sort of entity on his struggle with all his alone. You know to -- he's the first you know real European franchise player he got tagged with all these different labels of -- -- -- strictly because he's the European player and he wasn't great defensive player Alaska stuff. Whatever he never let that it never let it publicly bother him at least you know as far as Nike town and so when it was over he -- is like. I'd never let you in and I'm not gonna let you win now and I thought that was that was kind of admirable way they need to sort of left. It a pop up where the moment ever want to embrace him he was now I'm gonna leave out those. Not I think I think it really good point about how you know -- struggle or whatever goes did not nearly get enough play and this is not you know he's not a robot that. Suggested serving their robot the united make it to someone who obviously. Is that you know I have a lot of middle advocate of -- You know greeting if he can popping consistently shouting during game and this is someone who's life -- basketball -- intensely about basketball and and I think if you you know has been in a weird position in the league for years that we've made you really haven't appreciated it because we've been too busy. Debating whether or not he stopped to realize that there's like a bigger picture go I mean you -- Duncan. This is it is is negated because eco international player but I mean. And I think you don't wanna say the purple -- international player especially because these German -- -- -- hoping even weirder but you know I I you know you. A lot you want -- he was you heard about the -- darker -- you know he did have a college experience and came over here it was part of you know the American basketball scene -- -- Doug Duncan got in Duncan Duncan was more apology even when his players to block college campus. By the timing of the NBA and I think it's it's with the Turkey really you know. It insignificant to -- that under no we can talk about that like. Nowitzki is really like the first like prize project young guys that this guy's gonna be able to do everything European player drafted in. And Garnett you know break the high school I think and. So that that felt so sure about that do. That's a great point image duplicated at I mean while do we even need to burn up the obvious. Darko. But you know you should -- the end all these guys who were like you know they're going to be the next -- you know but Dirk was the first dark -- was. And there's there's tremendous confusion over whether or not to draft him at the time in analyst -- stuff and so it's he's he's a TrailBlazer and his own way and it's -- it strikes me infinitely more bass -- we've given credit for as you say. But it also leads -- into something else which is this whole notion of the narrative and that I think the narratives got a bad rap during the playoffs to discriminate like. -- -- like easy you know sort of like dot dot dot you know newspaper columnist construction narratives that that that we make fun up. But I'm that the -- do you know we're creating our that's our friend Kevin Pelton does even who uses numbers to the first for his there's like. We are just. Writing narratives for these guys some of the more favorable. Than the others and I'm just I'm just curious about your your whole approach when you're presented with a guy like to -- How do you try to figure out what is don't know what makes them tick where do you look what what what are your what are your signposts in terms of writing about these. I decided not. Up to Mercury news too much. You know I -- I I go on I try to go on what seems to be sort sort of outwardly obvious. And if there's something that either really confusing -- seems somehow incomplete. I just don't it means that -- kind of like I don't even know what to say about about the heat because to me. Into the good luck finding any significant it makes sense of all that that is and to use that you personal one jump into the greens Elijah. I think I think it's it's it out of it about like perspective and paste it in and sort of looking at their balance saying. You know this business stories -- telling the -- you know. There have been so many -- -- narrative over the year to repeat scored thirty points and perhaps gave against bird and it would be like. -- not stop is -- we've -- through -- title and then the next day like Italy with seventeen points if you put it that they've appropriately Toby. Is there the Kobe Bryant narrative I think it's pretty clear to all the for the right now however it look like. It took it entire career -- actually emerged clearly which isn't to say that -- of these beings are there prophecies it would have to wait fourteen years to draw any conclusions but I mean. It if I mean I don't know I just feel like. You know you you don't want to try and help too big story to do you don't wanna try and and you don't wanna try and take too much liberty. With with fairly limited you know. Used to go on and I think about above all out to -- you wanna make sure that your it is that this -- the music but to no greater and kind of an alliance saying this because it has addictive that you're actually it's -- -- I have in my underwear. And that type but. You know that you you let the players history dictate to get the player dictate that there it is ego. You look for the quote you you know you get the quotes that -- that you use an insight into. How they've yet to -- picking your feeling you know. You look further the biography about them. You either before they got to get bigger gap is to get -- sense that maybe what kind of person they are either. There's a lot it shouldn't be used to build it there and that's I think bugged me so much is that. Narrative is that the lowest common denominator. Or it I mean I felt like guys use -- you read that cranes like exhaustive. History they're right yes I mean they sit there and we'll pick. I'd I'd come -- they're there it is of -- And it. Like that they would like twelve million words long and involved me with -- it was bigger than like the big grip when you know. Think about and what -- the national national. And that was like a multimillion dollar corporation that involve a lot of people like -- the borders something that. And that that's I think the thing is like there's nothing wrong about telling stories about war in that sense like but also read. Gonna do with it means not like Allen describes number though -- but you're you have to try it. Think any kind of writing or are reported that you'd need to be trying to be on the possible. And it and if you are gonna be outlandish. At least acknowledge that you're doing in the united I certainly guilty of being sort of fantastical about player at the time but it. You know business analysts. I think Monta Ellis. Yeah but I will I will India have been at the same time like my feeling that month analysts are not I -- I don't really know what I would. When a month analysts profile would be I think that he doesn't exist they're that they really can't think Randall. I mean I actually tried to wondered your story right I don't know they have it Randolph -- out this summer and or by the temple that it had opted not like it was the media. Which which it often because it was suspended this weird idea -- in my head but you know I I noticed. You know I know that these weird these weird -- leave that -- they're very different but -- high stakes players like dark day for LeBron or Kobe where there's an actual. I wanted to -- like. It did it not that that means you sir is that elect a cultural story like they're part of -- part of that the sport to let you either actually sort of like part of American culture. And they get a whole thing about like political narrative select those you you have equally as high responsibility. I think it known cases that you're not just talking about like -- weird that you made up or some person that exist just for you make -- you know. Craft the message you want I really. -- -- Can we talk about -- Yeah but whatever happened to the. Can't connect it because. You and I both share. That is while the bizarre but we do we -- share a fascination with Rondo. And he's he's he's a unique character in this league for number -- not least of which is the way he please. But what they're really stands out for me is and you just saw last week Deron Williams left his longtime agent signed with CA day in. Which is the bronze agency in the -- to keeper -- back here but I will. And Rondo seems to be. This very strange you know new school old school kind of kind of player where I would be shocked. If he did something like that. You know it seems like he was put on this earth to be counter to all. And he's now entering this this this phase of his career where he is about to be the leader of the Celtics. And they may or may not be a strong franchise you know what's on these guys -- but he's he's gonna cost you and I both GAAP and instrument looks like it'll happen in the year after. He is one of those guys who was gonna lead to NBA into the next decade. Ago. This is a long time coming in from where he came into the leak. -- have a question here but to start talking about shorts. He had it -- it's hard to visit to say that about Rondo because. He's -- -- weird player and as we both sort of -- kind of you know he's not he's not Kevin Durant you're not like. Giving it that ignorant sort of an oversimplified the profoundly but it's not like -- that was like the guy -- Broader strategic. As much as it -- -- -- can say that of course is not going to be you know jumped to a big agency trying to get the maximum exposure whatever he also doesn't seem to be. Conscientious and his brand in the way that -- it yeah you know he's. I feel like he had this like -- almost like. Stack I guess I can't say enough about the basis. Probably what every thinking probably know. Think that if -- anyway you can do it but yeah back I've ever feel like it -- like light bulb on the optimism scale of that in some weird way. I mean I get the politely to say that -- like you don't like his basketball the spot where it. He he doesn't it's not clear be that he either doesn't get there isn't here about. Either they'll like playing into the night or what are like the whole would be additions go getter there and I think it is -- -- like his Alex's. It never it help the situation how patient he's been about. April on the Celtics. And -- -- because of his game I mean he caddie he knows that without jump shooters. He's gonna have to veto it game would be a lot of effective it is about to work a lot harder to get what if this became. But. But does that mean it but it -- -- I didn't know that would say oh. Rondo is not hungry united basis because -- yes he does seem to have like that very detached sensitive. What and I actually. You know where do -- apply that sort of like you know normally part of my personality of regulated but it sit back and you know let it all unfold and see what happens and it's kind I think that does bearded David a lot of ways you. What what do I go like straight about the fact that -- do we get past what prop my notebook and went to I didn't make that one entry pass that happens the -- you know. Jumper off the screen that you know dipped to point the I don't know I think I think about the weird bit is had that it is its real potent because every member of prevent injury and at the same time though. I'm not really sure where he -- because everyone was like. But you know. -- hard on him they blew up and down on him here. Well it felt like people have a right birthday parties for Derrick Rose up their own birthday is going to the post season. And and Westbrook. Westbrook for all the flaws. A lot of it would have been -- -- Westbrook is is like a more athletic Rondo leaders to get to them like that jumper problems but I mean this. If there's this site quote unquote new point guard or even -- even Paul but Paul you had like a very brief hey remember -- -- the -- -- -- the NBA moment. -- -- Although he's not super athletic he didn't use so many more things than Rondo can. But Beckett back this whole basketball football aspect of -- mean think about like 800 isn't it stated it. Was that -- effect of competitive players that you know that that was. Indicate that didn't have a jumper -- -- did you know was primarily a pastor -- also agreed that I mean that there's. I just think there's there's this idea that Rondo has gone from. Rondo is right around so people need to accept him on his own terms and it's sort of look at the result he get rather than worrying about how he stacks up to whoever like a hot point guard of the. Right and -- -- into center in west Berkeley now now abuse he spell loss on an Oklahoma City road peace. For GT you write to Q and so you you got some of these guys really well there are fairly well anyway and Westbrook took so much criticism this year and it it is definitely -- -- criticism but it made me kind of chuckled it because this is basically -- was like for last four years. You know I mean 2008 he was the young point guard who's gonna get abused by Chauncey Billups and you know and and everybody else and then. And and he was he went too much too soon and -- -- Toronto's gonna show and -- to be the good Rondo the bad Rondo and then all of a sudden -- was how they really need Rondo I mean you know he's already been through this like four types. Now works every aspect of his game is criticized critiqued pored over all this kind of stuff. And -- have come to a point where -- -- of the -- I don't have you stopped caring about her -- really cared but. -- is he's sort of accepted and I think the Celtics have accepted him as a player. And -- -- people do or not is really their own problem at least to him whereas Westbrook and Derrick Rose -- for that matter. Are now entering the stage their career where they are going to be picked apart and shoot up. Until they until they reach their their ultimate potential. Yet I think another thing they're too is that you're talking about a lot of -- -- -- -- sort of questions about him before the fact and then he went out improve the current group of raw. Indeed it. And I think the thing with with west and especially is that there you know that that the political team with the -- like so far ahead of schedule. And then Westbrook went out and basically sort of showed the ugly dirty side of that the I mean is that -- it's sort of what would rather than that you could say they'll like it went but the whole year -- You know that it. Think people even want like every ballgame but they do there -- a guy named Derrick Rose it was amazing and then all of a sudden he comes out and show that. There are limitations to playing that way that that team is only you know cannot simply rely on like his penetration Specter made offensive catalyst I think Rondo it's more like. I don't think -- could undertake other stride because he's consistently. Happy situation -- in front of them and then responded so I think what happens against the will hurt his standpoint -- why would he suddenly choose this one to be -- Right I can't really remember anything he has always any certain so passive. -- RC -- I love talking to him as you know because he's so deadpan. Now he's simply a pain in the neck there's no question about that you know he can be. He can keep -- keep us waiting for an hour and a half to give a -- you know enough thing in use you you you'd you'd sort of like leave the locker room 1 o'clock in the morning sort of you know. Ticked off and and and aggravated by it but at the same time like he's so consistent when it. You can tell he's just completely abused or both amused by the questions that he gets asked over and over and over again but he's just not ever gonna give you anything because. Is he realizes he he sees through what you're trying to do and doesn't care. You know and I I find that I find that interesting about a minute at least this -- on some level. Because some of these guys is sort of play along with whatever it is we're doing. And as the media and an employer into it and Rondo is just like no I'm not gonna play into it I'm just gonna kind of ignore it. And I find that kind of refresh it. And I think I think the thing with that too is you know it. It kind of -- basically he's as a as a player is a character an -- -- some sort of like. You know Dwight Howard doing jumping -- -- while making it can record where it's like a you know he's one of those athletes where it's pretty clear that. He decided that he was. It's either he decided or he has never really figured out with polls like. Here's how you go about being a professional athlete and he -- as a -- response these situations and yeah I think I think it is refreshing even if -- -- any appetite for you because. It's good to see that not everyone and it goes you know you've got you've got them but it does is give the -- -- -- appreciate it as possible and you could like not out what you're talking about it. And -- that the guys are actually good talkers of the Nazi you know you -- about at a -- there's about basketball with the person who. Those to be you know terror by the time vehicles on the -- so hard and it is that these guys we you know maybe they're used with that are used but the fact that they exist. May -- be -- interesting and -- writing about that you know even the way they don't leader who don't take questions Weller you know. Dot requested itself always deployed to statements some ways it's gonna spit back you know Christian. Yeah I always say that that that I mean to me out of the quotes the quotes the quotes and him he would agree quote everybody knows when is but. It's often way more interesting how they answer something then how would then what they actually answer the Lisa obviously. There's so much there's so much media announcement is baseball but. I mean you know where we're talking an hour nap before the game retirement shooter or target their prices were talking him after the game it's like. Yeah I mean they'll likely -- -- I was gonna say something. Even remotely interesting in. In January after playing the boxes. This is quite is quite low and so it's it's often more times how they're saying and what their. That then what they're saying. In the time we have left I wanna I -- talk about free Darko little -- and the demise of -- the demise that's the wrong word right the -- the end of free Darko. And and how you feel about that shoals because that that that's sort of that's defined your professional career to this point. I mean it's actually you know do it myself that there is -- they. He you know. I don't think I really expected. Are people that care all that much because in my mind this site and very clearly right of course. I would say it was a bit template is really -- right reported that for me. At a -- basis equity -- the article but it is the diaries I mean that was opposite you know that was stuff he was doing anyway -- -- -- himself that we could decide to cross post because we do people who -- doing reading in the -- -- -- -- -- As a you know I haven't really actually a little surprised by how you know sort of outpouring of emotion remember governors and it has not. I was typist and kind of you know really amazed by how. That people seem to be that he would go I -- even -- a lot of it would say you know -- best favorite -- blogs like buying back. I don't doubt you know it leave it and so and I think also though there's there's there's this sort of misperception that. You know bad debts that have closes the door that whatever I don't know it. When my credit impaired here's your Cubans trying to both touch on and avoid cities that are easy to announce database and breaking up. -- that I told you this free dark it was really music criticism site. Yeah always wise I'm coming up music references were there -- that farewell post accounted like I don't know. 75 I drop Mission of Burma in their for no reason. Well I mean never mind you know my and my my understanding of music in feasibility write music with though is you know about. Five or six is that anything I could write about sports and I think that we suspected that beginning this is like a write about music and the bad moment. I think I think what I try to say is that. I don't wanna think. I have free darker -- -- was pretty much finished. I don't know even know what it could mean if I'm like China like carry on the legacy of regard for obviously by the end it was just sort of like. A place where I put the writing that I wasn't getting paid to write that stuff that was like inflammatory in some way but you know I. I don't know and I don't mean to be like to like you're modest there you know. Arrogant about it picked it it was it was it was pretty much done and I think what you know. The people responded to that I think ultimately what I realized was so. Do what I why I was so kind of I felt a bit of getting caught up in like the people say you know to -- the productive company because I think that it would only then that it. You when you're writing but if you're in charge of keep taking care of a crappy looking Blogspot site that no one visits anymore you really wanna write part of regular basis. It's kind of hard to keep -- at any sense of really you know what over the course of whatever 56 years you actually they have accomplished now to book. He had to -- I don't -- I don't think I don't think hurt your cause. Right -- save it -- and only then that I sort of you know and it's again given. -- -- of the grandiose statements about myself and -- -- -- at a bank but the truth is I don't actually believe them and it was I think it was it's very hard to beat that date that but I -- date basis and but he won the thing you're doing it and the -- if it's it was I think he's hearing a lot of people maybe about how important freedom of the -- and maybe realize that I accidentally be accomplished something like. And and I think I think that those points -- points are are are pretty well taken because I think for a lot of people myself included. It sort of opened the door remember when I saw the first book. In I think a part of the story about how the listening on it's it's on the first look at Cambridge bookstore. And -- you know I'd look to your site a little bit I was actually doing other things it was a -- about sportsmen and and side to a view and I saw the book and open it up and answer reading it and -- -- the books are fully in our reading it. And output at its -- by this. You know and it's in Minnesota I sentiment like you've also meant and she was like. -- are there people like -- out you apparent -- you you know and and that was sort of you know mind aha moment with you guys were I was like. Wow OK I don't have to do this in the old construction I was taught coming up in newspapers there's a whole other way to think in right in to -- kind of stuff and I mean they're at their other avenues out there like that but I think what you're guys supposedly for for me a lot of other writers and sort of opened up that. That possibility and that's huge that. That is an important so I'll talk about agree more about that. I -- and I think I think he could be quite honest concise idea of free Darko was. We've been very hit and miss. And -- much further step by root -- they're pretty big bet. I think that pulpit too I kind of felt like it had ended because you know that a lot that -- hasn't aged well. A lot of the bad stuff. You know would. That a lot of the -- the Franklin by other people like you would. Who would say I really let you guys are doing it right with a preview and it you know I don't really when I go back and look at the post -- my own but I remember being really good. As -- -- by the because the whole thing seemed to be one long sort of weird process progress being. It was -- like defining liberated and now an oppositional revolution are obviously. We have so many dumb things subsequently realized they note that I wanted to modify. I mean what and I get rid of it back on -- for the for the blogs to be needed a place he could write all the time over your ideas but. If -- I would never they don't only to discuss I think it on the way -- I might be broken a week but. I'm I would never consider publishing with a free Darko. Blogging about it I mean there is just because there's certainly blog right thing that would make a lot of sense is because that the quality of writing it's sort of the stability of it is as strong. But I mean you know street -- it was a bad and in -- sort of taking cases in taking risks in the experimental basketball writing and we found -- our own worst enemy in that respect and that's said that that that said that that got a parking lot about -- That said you know. I've had any number of more corporate -- over the years that I can certainly say that. I can say in black to people who neglect by writing book value that it's not the same and I'm not the same right there in the chance that getting something. -- they're getting some crappy bit incoherent are lower but it says that getting something that she seems like it's doing something that you know. Make you know doing something that might be breaking the sort of new grounder to give the good lord it is so that I like about it. The blog edited the GQ for the playoffs is by edited them going it was a play. You're saying I'm gonna work with you with as an editor who like just pop it wants to -- you know. You know I'll tell you what offense makes no sense here -- basically like we and Evian and Tommy Tommy -- against the deposed in the same way. He's not. Yeah well that I did so so so what do you do nationals you died did you Digi key series is fantastic during the playoffs have everybody. Was reading along -- it was uses really really I thought it was a that is exactly what GQ should have in a quote unquote sports blog on the website -- -- again excellent. But what what what are you where some -- your projects America right now where where can people find you work they find your work. Well by the Tumblr. A no I mean it's I a you know and -- to be working on -- proposals for -- sports book of mine but. You know I don't know maybe I wonder if I'm not kind of -- of sports certain level. Is you know the offseason and I don't have any sort of regular paying gigs so it's not like I'm expecting to have. You know a kind of worker data -- the next few months I think he would do in the likely to have -- so. Congratulations on the team and we talked about the heavily -- Okay this picture you're congratulating me -- people make your your parents. I mean that's that's beginning to take up more and more right and unity and I don't know I mean I. I mean you know I have all of this super secret ideas and a lot of weird -- -- -- people that might go somewhere -- I don't really think animated because my basic as the market development I think I'm just gonna take it easy. But the short term I mean you know media people the world does that mean you can call me up in like -- the Digg but. You know it says it's not like I don't I don't -- -- sound like I'm typed your where they have after free Darko but it's more just that like. You put up Gruber you drink yeah yeah. That the company I don't I look at the wake up everybody want -- right I mean I've -- -- more like the plan after over which is sort of logically where you're workload decreased their -- and Indian writer. And -- sort of platform are responsible for maintaining. Is gone which is in some -- the load off my -- this -- is going to be so visible I it. Harder very hard -- excited about following the draft which it would never happen. And I if I don't really wanna -- -- the -- visit and then you know you get the whole life why it might so wedded to this one bordering you don't have that problem. You know really the same way I did you actually. You know know about other sports but I mean I have the very weird thing -- I know a lot about what sport and with other things I mean it's. You could say probably like the name of any second here baseball player in in -- individually that I would under prevail. You put the put it. And you get better and they've I don't like I did talk you about like baseball forties for like three hours and edit. It's it's all the same that minute that the best advice I ever guy she read the book -- where -- -- you know. They're at like Jack a car race in Eisenhower's those are about this sensible fighter who won as many did it. I mean -- couple you know sports is sports the sports they added to for construction -- the -- I guess you're saying now. You are you are known as a basketball writer and I think. You know I personally I I want to read I wanna read -- morsels on whatever fund on them whatever whatever pops in your head is you know I'll I love reading your stuff. I -- thank you so much preferred preferred for taking the time we've been talking about doing this there's a -- in the podcast in a that this is the right time to do it. So thanks so much for spending and a caution -- have been like 45 minutes with -- talking about are -- talks. And the and basketball in in between and and good luck with everything else -- -- really appreciate it. Yeah thank Leon -- that it really weird actually but that actually do expect heavily on the program called on. We have that nice parting gifts. For the recovery for you and your lovely wife the gift certificate no -- -- we know we have nothing at the -- podcast we have absolutely zero budget. Well I mean pop art typically need to have -- to point. That. It's pretty -- if you're you do that that that beats any bits of free Darko prevent the disciples of -- government in the name and likeness. It's never on by the way -- never had me on the. Obama did Billy -- into I can't get on an out there and read. So I don't know what's going on there I think I think altered food you know it's it's. -- key and a packet that is if you guys and the band who actually did a podcast where they talked about. We're at one of them said they loved our first book and one of them said that he would like it that much about it kind of stupid or something. And I was. Both sort of annoyed by what he was saying the committee that he hadn't really really know much about out -- what we're about it he had even read the whole book. But the conversation was so good on their show and it was so funny that I kind of wrote in an act that if we get and expand and it's it's I mean. But I think it's my way of saying that you know. It's worked out really well but I -- understand how you know. How would you know. There's the crap out of the tendency to make everything chaotic and it went like to that you're suddenly -- -- basketball writing -- -- what basketball but all the sudden some of these other -- site. You go to sort of like weird would you call it. Like borrowing voters. And I think you know you only talk to the people. Because you've got back bubbly talkative at times. Arts and I remember ever last year during the finals. -- the way I describe it was. Whatever force field that we have around us that allows us to interact and other human beings -- regular basis especially and we live in a city with completely gone I was completely vulnerable. And if so someone so much is like Russian side in the T I'd probably wanna throw clutched at the person that was so worn down by the whole process that couldn't I couldn't do anything but talk about basketball. Who's joining arguing only with people who were in it with me. So yes and which. I -- I'd frankly like last night I sat down and realized wait a minute. I don't have to do anything. That's at night. It until. -- -- Dotted skirt at the same thought -- that united states of a freelance story of an anchorman for a month that would have finally signed off. I was like wow now what do I worry about it and I you know there is finally behind. Anyway but -- -- do it against some time I hope we don't know him and and hopefully we can what would you will be some so I would like to do some again mutual's at some point so hopefully we can we can use them again. Great to be excellent governor shelves please don't enjoy as the title -- podcast has been a fun hour. Thank you so much for for listening and now we're into a lot authorities especially if there's a lockout because there'll be anything else -- about. I that's it thanks a lot this is Paul -- thanks to listen.