WEEI>On Demand>>Talking Hoops Ep. 6: The NBA Finals, draft, potential lockout and Shaq's legacy

Talking Hoops Ep. 6: The NBA Finals, draft, potential lockout and Shaq's legacy

Jun 10, 2011|

WEEI.com's Celtics writer Paul Flannery is joined by Howard Beck of the New York Times to talk about the NBA Finals, draft and potential lockout. Flannery also chats with Jeff Goodman of CBS Sports about the 2011 NBA Draft. Other topics discussed in the podcast include Shaq's legacy and if the Boston Celtics are still NBA Championship contenders.

Transcript - will not be 100% accurate

And now. Own WEEI guns come. In Jerry everything you wanted to know about the Boston Celtics in this sport around Malaysia and a hole in one place Duncan who we've -- plenary on WEEI. Welcome to the title -- podcast I'm your host Paul planet and it's been way too long as we got. Jennifer podcasts but. Got a good show you guys today who got Howard back live from the NBA finals -- -- Dallas Howard writes for the New York Times. -- talk about all kinds of things including the finals when the Celtics are still. Chain which of contenders we both think so we'll spoiler alert there -- she actually see what's going over the next dysfunction. And some good lockout talk because we have to have some good lockout talk and then. Retarded Jeff Goodman a friend of ours from CBS sports stock come down. I just will agree college respirators we have he's seen all these kids that are in the NBA draft that I just frankly haven't and he's gonna give us some insight on these guys. Before to get cut off a little bit there at the end to buy them. We've got Jeff on his way -- Springfield he'll be joining us as part of a show so right now here's my conversation with power. -- it will now joining me live from Dallas for the vehicles we get the best guess on the talking hoops podcast. Howard back the great Howard backed the New York Times Howard how are down there. I'm doing well. So before we get in there's also many things we need to get into but but let's start let's start down in Dallas in the finals. The bronze taking all 'cause the criticism or you know everything about Dirk Nowitzki but that this has amaze me the most about these finals. I -- as Mark Cuban talked. -- Know. Is one of the great upsets of our time and of this series. I've barely even see them frankly and and market hit the market is not just -- and he's talking. Public -- you can really -- guy he's -- he's a great conversation list you know. As a -- interest. Just loves people loves talking sort rear just and I didn't seem around that much -- -- that -- creepy and -- busy and crowded. Last summer across and was before being. One. Some before game two also and then chat or are these are not talking on the record net began. Sometime early in the lakers series. And they started winning and he just I don't know it's you know some combination of superstition. Just figuring it was better ousting and the way -- obvious distraction I think there's a little bit of an evolution here -- wrote about this last week. That you know Cuban he's you know you know a lot of looking in the fiery emotional guy he's just as passionate and any. In order around as passionate and fanfare and and you just you know he can get help troubled course and that certainly happened 2006. And I think that. It may -- well and he was below the radar dirt without actually saying publicly yet it's nice and -- in the -- pianist. I think mark has decided Allstate. Below the radar and -- check myself for what here and I think it helps children because the final match oblivion Dallas. And you know that every question you're gonna getting days leading up to going to be about 2006 when mark was by the quarter. Million dollars through the few thousand dollars. -- refereeing comments. Easier to approach to say look I'm not doing interviews. So you know he's still used -- still you know approachable charity. But he just not talking on the record and it's been. Better effort for the mavericks and remark not for us in the media because you know we -- document and you know certainly you entertaining. Bryant right no I I told bigger I think it plays right into debt into dallas' benefit especially because. But we both know all everything is gonna come down on -- on the heat I mean people have been waiting all year to unload on them. And you know the Seles couldn't get it done against -- the bulls couldn't get it done against them there's there's this level of the vitriol all of that still out there that that frankly to -- -- -- a little bit maybe it's just because we lived under the rock of covering the NBA on a daily basis and I think most of us who do have gotten used to that the whole thing now it's been a year. But that level of just anger toward the brine and the heat and and the hold the whole concept of them. -- kind of taken me by surprise a little bit in these files -- where you surprised by that at all. Still don't work work work. We're so insulated you know I'd like we were doing this series I know what it's. You don't what they're reacting -- in Boston avenue was a talk radio or anything and and him -- that specific. I'm sure they do I think you're probably more than ten to east and in the west also that the artist in the united -- guessing here but I think. Eastern Conference seemed especially because of the monster that was created in Miami with the street guys and you know LeBron having been an Eastern Conference guy anyway of course in Boston especially you know you're -- you got -- much familiarity with an opponent that any city. In the NBA so. I feel the -- god I don't know but it remains we know it was their last summer it was intense the backlash was intense. And some of it based on good -- who promote that not I lectures they're really went away and I think. For people who didn't like. The whole content the first -- -- found that somehow unsavory that a you know MVP -- player is gonna go play with another VP type player people who thought that. They just you know seem like you know you know just so so arrogant and so. Full of themselves in that rally they held after they'll sign a contract early for people who resent it. Anything about them and -- actually make it all the way just -- people that much more because I think there was this hope that well. They'll get their comeuppance minority can't see it can't be that easy you know you can't just come together and of course two days. So I -- contracts slap together a few supporting cast players and then go win a championship doesn't work that way is that and it shouldn't work that way there shouldn't be useful to go to vacation. To anybody -- go that. Then watch them overcome one total after another one opponent after another. And then get for the sporting I mean I think people you know it got very extreme to people who didn't like seeing -- the first place. And you know they're still a possibility for you know for those who don't like beekeeper who don't like LeBron don't like the whole show. They're still you know opinion on some hope -- you know that the mavericks aren't going away in history to. -- let me think about the Samir I've felt all along I I picked Miami in six mainly because of the above the level that Dirk Nowitzki was playing and I figured they could they can get two games but. The way to games of unfold the kind of surprised and each one of them has been has been basically up for grabs and come down the last the last few seconds and is and it sounds funny to say with a team at 22 but there's Dallas have a legitimate shot here. I it's a great question. I know I didn't think they didn't necessarily coming in. And I you know I certainly thought you know that one -- and thought -- that you know -- -- and exploded just noted that he. And you know than my because they got to -- really thought particularly the -- -- -- taking note gained four and made it 31 series. -- had a pretty good chance of knocking him out. Tonight. What surprised me is some combination of dallas' resiliency which -- who shouldn't be too surprised says they've they've they've shown it before but so combination of doubt the groups especially. Against -- defense which is which is pretty fierce. Combined with Miami and being. Just much more. Fallible fragile in fourth -- that I would expect enemy he said the from the Boston series in -- saw again the conference finals which Chicago. My any created. Kind of but persona. The habit of being missed seeing where. They will trade punches with you through the first quarter segment court record know whatever goes up or down by more than you know seven point eight point nine points whatever. It's a close game he -- the fourth quarter up for grabs. Maybe it's one direction -- the vote another but by personal point. And then in the last 567 minutes Miami just destroy you and what they did to for the Celtics that's what they did to the -- And you could change. And you know I kind of thought -- this is who they are now this is what they are -- they. Will just click competitive game at a certain level -- -- -- you managed the game. And then when they. Believe it's time to throw that knockout punch -- using other boxing analogies and so there Spoelstra saw its. The acoustic -- mechanics who works since thousands. And they get that that that. Time they get to that point four court circuit -- the target when it then boom that is -- written that they can just do anytime they want -- and that's what you try to connect where did that go where did that. Part of Miami character. Go. In the final minute Padilla and two. And four -- tune of up to fifteen point lead in game four in the loss of nine point lead. It's it's it's a little static and no credit out for a lot of that -- credit dirt you know we agree that there quote there's. Derrick Rose is still young and 62. You know will be noticed the name of the history of a great big men leading -- -- the championships as -- as you know. Boston guys still are still around it was her course and then the other guys are getting a little -- let I don't think he's seen a guy like Turkey in this postseason you know Kobe not really Kobe anymore now the level that used to be and how Gasol. Had a terrible policy and to you know. -- is the best player that there were any he'd have faced. In this -- so I think we're putting that into account speaker that he could -- Dick he -- -- against -- for. Q are complete these these incredible comebacks and then if you -- that so. That's been a great coming out party for Dirk Nowitzki. Well here and it is -- in you know I think meaty -- a little bit of -- humbling experience for the heat if that's possible. I'm not sure that is possible and you know and it's it's funny that I mean because I've. Yeah -- however Miami came together is Doc Rivers pointed out. In doing anything illegal you know the bed -- they did what they want you know these guys came together they actually took a little bit less money in order to make this happen and you know -- so. But the hope you all know that's the -- that's the one area that I have not seen it all from the heat and a probably deservedly so but -- and that we need to talk about the -- little bit. The game three I thought was ridiculous people criticizing him for passing to Dwyane Wade into critical situation. How does that how do you get criticized for that and what's been happening all year but. Game four was weird and I will what do you what happened with him in game four why did you turn and he -- the word passive because it counties like different things but. Why did he turn passive in the fourth quarter. There was -- -- LeBron himself that I wasn't aggressive enough in the opposite of aggressive -- and sport is this so I think it's that it's a fair term -- minister used. He was he wasn't. Involving what engaged in Alaska and says things like LeBron didn't look engage them with a year ago where you're going for the cavaliers against the Celtics and so that's alarming I think anybody who's. You know the Miami -- federal brought them. We're liars always a mystery we still don't know why Iowa from last year. And I don't know why in the night I think. You know. If we're if we just -- assuming this is just simply -- basketball issue and nothing else. I do think that there's something psychological to. The other that the surrounding -- created for himself you know a lot of people thought it was a weakness to go to Miami -- -- -- agree with that particular interpretation think that that's strong -- out among a lot of fans that it was clear oversight of weakness to go play on -- leaking into unbelievable anyway. So you take it the backdrop. And you're -- -- team where. You yes you -- up budgeting and again LeBron he was the one who. You know. Created a lot of those fourth quarter knock outs of the Celtics and available to bring you that there's no question about his ability to -- watcher is that it's killer instinct and port court any of that stuff. But. He did surround himself with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh for a purpose. And that purpose was I need to count around me -- championship and you better you know supporting cast I can't do it all myself all the time. And -- somewhere in there is a little bit of a crutch maybe there's also psychological crutch or maybe an electoral appeal that I just I don't have the energy I don't know. So that not clicking on you know I didn't sleep bright gore got you know. Fight my girlfriend whatever it may be. You have now this week yet. And maybe -- expect it in my apartment if there's a basketball region here. Meet meet the fact that there's a false sense of security sometimes and you you have to willingly sit there may be the best. A premier player in the game right now. Chris Bosh is having a pretty good cheer themselves. And so then you get mobile to a false sense of security they will they got a care in Omaha tonight that they got to carry a much what their airport and the next thing you know -- including lead. And you've got nothing to stem the tide. So. That's what we're looking at it. -- Dad died and it you know like if they don't win if Miami doesn't win he is going to do it. Absolutely crushed I mean. The level of criticism he's received at this point is gonna look insignificant compared to the total level you'll get if Miami doesn't win this series that really believe that. But I what do -- -- shift gears a little bit why have you here and talk about a couple of other quick things one is Shaq and you coverage Shaq out in LA and and he was here this past year. An incredible personality. And Howard and it's been since so many times but it. I I've never been around a superstar persona and I've been around -- and non athletes as well. Who was more comfortable with who they are and how they present themselves -- Shaq and we know there -- some you know there's some other parts to him as well he wasn't just this Jolly Green Giant. But the the most charismatic. Superstar athlete I've ever been around who also was able to relate to other people. While I'm just curious I did a couple of your your -- -- your -- memories from from that time in Los Angeles. I mean that he's saying he's extremely comfortable with himself and went with people he is he's -- true people person and there are a lot of guys who are great athletes they record that well be charismatic you know -- the right sound byte another great as comfortable being. Themselves and just talking to add just anybody about anything and check what you're reduced you know he was -- that you also I'm sure where. To be very very moving -- so there were you know which I was at his best he was a lot of fun to be around and very entertaining and then there -- those days and sometimes weeks when it is beautiful and you as a plain dealer or just Democrats entirely. But you know it's it's kind of the you know rose colored glasses. Hindsight phenomena where you look back years you know -- remember with him. Most of the fun stuff a member too many of the you know. You know experiences but. It's funny I think things like -- alert -- -- -- -- -- Who Richard there Mercury news noting used to be Healy times when I was at the daily news. And recovered a couple of years that we overlapped and liquor -- Kim Roberson a blog keep -- -- last week that a lot of my you know their memories to its. You know shouldn't have been pestering Shaq for god knows camera with a subject was. Broker per week check had been you know really and one of his movies sells them. -- saying you know ask me a good question and Tim would be joking I am asking good questions and you know he just I think checks -- ignoring him entirely. Excepting groups sessions. You just you know upset with -- for what ever and then one days are coming ask him. Some question I can't remember what it was an Shaq just in this look at the space he lights up interest going. It is comical if you become kamikaze compound asking a question. Second question first your jumps up and he grabs to in this like bear hug and start pogo sticking around the locker room. Gender disappeared I don't even know where he wasn't done it -- just enveloped have a pro receiver in the room -- -- -- question ethical. So it was just hilarious to -- -- you know frightening for a moment there but that's a quick little shack that the thing you picked. Trial and -- and he could be really gently humorous to replace what I do you know the thing about him and he didn't hold. Grudges there are guys who do and -- accurately he you'll get a life and he wrote about who didn't like the question of the total that. But by the next day until that maybe a couple of days. He could be there joking with you because I don't think you could help them sell these sort of people personally would rather. Be -- it to -- you know still messed around and joke with you and you that he would. There's spend the energy having you know holding a grudge so. Then -- it was stuff like that I mean. Yeah exactly British. We have these these. Odd little explanation for things you know checking Kobe didn't come apart the human dignity of their relationship will be in tatters and -- -- that -- a championship and everybody would think it was also sultan and actually in the go to all silly drama again and I remember asking that that. You know. Why is this how can you get hit like keep it together into it this. The declaration that he says that look to you get a manicure through the so we can have much on witness. Your -- with you on Thursday. Polygamy drove a rental price as this whole. I don't know what that meant it goes to the to the thing about grudges he just doesn't hold I think he would rather. You know like -- say you rather get through rather have you know. These these enjoyable relationships than not. You know we all the other stuff the unit nicknamed -- -- would give himself just load -- the -- quotes and columnist Sacramento Kings the Colombo and the trash talk in the baiting. And he made entertaining and he had -- you know he uses they would like you know the pro wrestling he used to say the NBA stands for nothing but actors. And you know he got some bogeys that's that's that's as of the former revisionist history where would be in heat build up his hatred towards somebody who would say in and you know the next thing you know he's like. What the guys came without such a hit that guy as happy with real rub inferences. They you know things are not all the marketing -- videotape every huge shock -- marketing and so that's true I think he overstated things. And and and need a big show things. To expect because he knew it was fun for the media -- percent and it it made him you know into this character. Well I think what extent to be huge venue that is in retrospect say that a good I didn't really -- cocoa and real we hate each other that we go to smart well. -- -- marketing you you guys had real issues. The least serious problems other. But again even revisionist history that got to the fun of -- -- he just creates his own. You know goofy narrative. You had cited it's it's unfortunate the way ended near Boston because I think I think it's time or did did well for him and it did well for the steam T when he was planning obviously news -- playing really well but it. He also helped loosen up KG a little bit. And you know if you really took to Boston in a way that I think surprised him I mean my sister lives on Sudbury where he had. For his spread out there and she would tell me all the time about -- -- friends and run in the shack at the marketer you know downtown or whatever and you would. -- he just he really enjoyed the boss and experience. And I think it. It it did well for the end of his career that he didn't finish off on yet another -- know where he's taking shots that management or the other star player or. Or or or possibly -- for your reality show from the point Carter's or something along those lines. Where you know it it it ended it ended well here except for on the court because he just complain more and I think if you've been able to. To really you know to to stay healthy this would have been a really nice sort of you know. Sunset on on the Shaq of Shaq legacy but not to be while I need to ask you about the -- here Howard. What is happening what happened when Donnie Walsh provided that breakdown. That's a great question. Yes what is really the best thing they've done the best thing that organization has done in the last what ten years. Was hired army and as he did a fantastic job of cleaning up by this thomas' best. And it wasn't mass. That payroll when the disaster and you know there was an event that franchise that lost. All respect and don't really recoup that now I guess it shouldn't want to be you know -- very critical of you know his his time and it's fair to do you say well you clear cap space to get the broad you can get abroad and you can get away but. You know what we don't know in retrospect the broader way indicated. You know a different -- there that nobody could have been aware of and I don't think you can click that I feel like nobody actually really had a shot maybe he thought he -- -- -- To an extent you wonder -- but he really did have a shot at the Broadway yeah so I kicked it away. He cleared the technical -- Omar Omar is still the best player the Nixon had. In ten years or more since you it was in his prime so you know fifteen years. And the guys you know he's a fantastic player charismatic true franchise star and he -- the next so -- plan works he got rid of a lot of deadly. He started over got a -- in a nice surrounding cast they were playing pretty well and we're Carmelo trade happened which you know most of us have reported you know. Kindle in the order pretty much force said. The front office. So I think things you know it certainly erosion. I think between -- and Donnie Walsh that you know may be -- Last summer with him hiring that'd be a consultant which you fell apart that. I -- curious about that the cargo talks which you know. Jim Dolan essentially hijacked when -- was taken very conservative and careful approach there. So and you know basically -- -- entire team. To get Carmelo Anthony and so there was all that the door that Donnie Walsh is the great company but will guy would never -- as saying publicly about it this agreement. And I think you still going to work through it. But I think some combination of things were -- your one is that. You know this stuff does wear you down taking bullets for the -- -- vote Simon and having it stand up and pretend that the you're you're on the same page when you know you're not I guess that's where it. He cat and physical issues she had no it. Hip surgery the next surgery. Indeed he is seventy now so -- -- -- just last week to us so well you know I'm getting older and -- can -- more the longer commitment than I could give at this stage. There's actually a shred of truth -- -- because I think he's meeting feeling mutual to put up with all this stuff that you got to go through to work at the garden. Him. You know I is not a whole truth though -- saying it was because of the Asian long term commitment did not Alter body wash for months -- the telling us. Stop trying to chase me up guys I'm buying you know and maybe use a walker I'm fine I'm healthy. Otherwise and I'm not -- through this you know stop trying to to shut -- the -- you know this is joking around in the media. So if you are good at the last minute all the so when he resigned he says oh we get to my age I had never been an issue for. So you know this is -- the -- -- who smoke and where Gordon it's a very political place. And you know you can never be true sure about. Anything you can at face value that are didn't end there's always something so horrible -- listening -- and they don't sometimes don't know when they've got a good. There are very precarious spot now with starting on this next move is gonna say a lot about the franchise and where they're headed. And you know they make. You know the wrong move this discouraged. Unravel again and our you know none of the machine by far and they need somebody good in there too. Finnish team around Carmelo and market their social several pieces away. You just it has -- my question -- is gonna ask you mean does this degenerate into chaos at this point. United in depending on the higher -- Mike did Tony on the last service contract -- you're still trying to integrate a Mario and Carmelo and -- some sort of functioning. You know basketball team which I'm not quite sure they ever really work. At any point last year where once they made that trade and then obviously you need to get you need to get size you need to get more you need to get more pieces here I mean. This this is a precarious place for the next right now. Yeah you know if you look at what they don't have you know. Apart Carmela gets -- -- -- the top say fifteen players in the league that's fine but they're both -- -- players you -- not the same as having LeBron -- who are two players. And who are also distributors of play makers. Carmelo lord hear our -- won the national political rebound a little too. But we know neither of them is going Q you know triple double and night neither of them is going to have to lock down anybody that the president. So you need. You're not enough just to have actual stars is -- and simple formula I think people have gotten the student thinking that including possibly the over the next. But imagine general consider. Where I sit and magic Johnson's. Rhetoric superstars superstars. There I don't. This is that the that's terrible oversimplification. I think they need unity you know legitimate big men -- seven footer who can you know run the floor block shots rebound defend. They need it the truth shooting guard and in particular is a real nice player with a great -- and second round. But I don't think he's just starting caliber -- -- I think he's got the six -- coming up the two and three. So I had -- been upgraded at least two spots. They get Chauncey Billups will be 35 and actually the point guard you got at least Spartanburg image eventually take over for him I don't know how much water -- got. And you don't have much -- -- bench. Test a lot of holes you know you they're far off from. The Celtics the bulls the heat right now and you know I don't know they actually can -- yet. So they've got a lot of work to do it and that's that they didn't know didn't have a full season together either didn't have a training camp. You know but is its precarious because the personnel is precarious because we don't know what the new. Economic system in the NBA who look like with a -- cap what looked like and it got forty million you're trying to do two players that that may hamstring them. It's precarious because like -- Tony going to the filing -- this contract that you mentioned. He'll probably coached that way they're -- I don't anticipate and giving him in an extension I don't extra spin them that anybody fired by other means but. They use -- had a lot of elements at work here that's gonna make things feel a little unstable. And you know this district hasn't had an instability. Look what it finally settled down you know and I created an identity for themselves and now. You know it it's a little -- -- ever see in the next few months you know a lot of you -- we'll know a lot more you know by you know by August you know. It's who you know is there are locked -- going under the new economic system and that and hired Jiabao at. And you know there's there's a lot of question marks over the stream. Brian -- you know I was -- gonna bring up the collective bargaining agreement because you know. Why wreck everybody's day it's if so it's a lovely hundred degree day in bed in junior boss and but last they had a -- gets out on -- and clearly I mean the labor uncertainty just covers over everything and sort of people ask me no time like a you know will what are the Celtics gonna do and I say I don't know because they don't know what they can do yet and amateur people cutting grass that but. You better and the Celtics a lot of last year's. What's our -- they still be can they still be a championship contender. Win the Big Three in Rondo as as the main court clearly need to add pieces here there. Getting some more size and some were shooting on a kind of stuff but would those guys the central core can be still compete for championship next year in in in your estimation. Yeah I don't think the Miami Heat are unbeatable here that they it'll. Miami has its weaknesses in the question is going to be. You know what in the TV eight due to them also and can they still -- If we're any emotional state static for instance. And -- and you go out and find yourself you know a great big man. Including ex KG. You know nobody would it be overwhelmed with side you know their -- with Shaq in the first place you will never know what would happen if Shaq and or Jermaine have been helped you. Not to mention Rhonda what -- elbow but. Yeah I think -- the character to rainy -- Big Three is life and death. You know you're not gonna actually -- -- to be released a couple of spots. But you know maybe you can wear them down. It would look we're listening to this year's ago the brought its luster to the question when LeBron is playing -- minutes is footnote 45 minutes -- game. And you know that's visual art being not least of which didn't they just don't have that many other guys to bring up the bench so. You gotta start find a way to attack well you know Miami weaknesses and you know -- -- one of them and so you know Boston's huge -- -- most people because you know -- KG and Paul Pierce they didn't get up there they're still pretty damn good and Rondo is one of the best -- position so you know. There's there are no they're most of the way better than merely a couple of pieces. -- and and some good fortune you know you always does need to help you need -- help and yeah I think I think they are absolutely still there. You know the bulls clearly you're right there at the polls -- to complete -- neither yet -- young. But here you've got pretty clear. Big Three among each -- with Chicago Boston. And Miami. And and nobody else who can really make according to go to Charlie street. Yeah I'm Obama deal I don't I don't think -- this is quite over yet with the -- and who knows what Danny what Danny might want to you know treating everybody before before we start playing again next year but. I I I do think that if you know provided health. That they they base still have a legitimate shot it suited to get past Miami next here. You know there will it -- a couple of tweaks I think they desperately need another big men and and they need some scoring punch off the bench because. You know it's funny that the the Big Three actually kind of played as -- as well as you know even up as you -- as you could hope between pierce and LeBron wade and Allen KG M bosh. That role players got completely out played for the Celtics in that series I think that was ultimately their on doing more so than didn't and these guys getting up and age. Well -- -- there who are related because you don't need as much support from promote a bench. If your stars are still playing at their peak level right. Though. You know you you're so it's some combination that you -- the more they started to age and lose a little more you know that support you show. Yeah I mean there's probably never run and that they I don't know there's true moron but then that -- there's gotta be one. And and in part because. I don't think anybody else in east bureau in Chicago and he is really up there to count them. And then you just need to get you out of the -- somebody else. -- died died a death -- aren't so you brought it up. What do what is this season start next year bold prediction January and October November. You know a few days ago I -- said he has beaten chances of avoiding you know a lot of missed games or anything and after yesterday we talked to the food. The commissioner and a Derek Fisher. Billy -- -- just senator you know pretty bleak again I mean essentially they -- -- -- -- -- progress since he thought it'd probably make some rhetorical progress. And that probably progress in terms of Blake. Actually listening to each other for awhile and in different ideas for -- can get certain things done. But the -- essentially still -- -- for the same think they're at fourteen months ago -- the players rejected immediately. You know it's still hard captain no guarantee contracts and shorter contract similar to roll -- of current salaries so. When are they gonna start. I -- serving in the eternal optimist on these things I act I believe that no -- gonna wanna blow the south. End. And they don't wanna relive 1998. And I don't know -- get anything done and actually reached before June 30 I don't know whether or not they'll extend her daughter but historical walking on July 1. I do think that they'll go find a way to to get this done. You know sometime in the fall. Maybe its a rush training camp. But note that there's a real indication he may go to inform people of -- that. If you're at war the hard cap and all the roll back this badly. That they may just -- in and -- sure it we're done we're not start until we get what we want this is what we believe we need for the long term -- league. And they do that then that it's you -- we're back to -- them on -- unit where it was basically we -- going to stand here they wait. Until players -- and you know -- -- before they may do it again there will be frightened they do. That there remain eternal optimist on on these things kind of feel like. There's there's too much. To be lost for them. And they've got such great momentum I mean for all that you know. Hatred that may and he made me inspired regenerating a ton of interest to liberating Europe. And you know they're excited a lot of excitement. You know -- a lot of excitement -- you know the Milwaukee Bucks. You know org Indiana Pacers -- few other market monitor I think suffering a bit. But in general know. In the NBA. Like a lot of leagues you that your your best when it's not just hardcore fans go to the general public it's being drawn in the Miami Heat creators storyline that's the that's fascinated everybody. And that's -- ratings are projecting casual fans -- so. You know if it's as if -- -- -- thing to go and squandered that would destroy that right now so. You gotta expect that somehow -- they'll find a way through this but they they just seemed so far apart. On the you know underlying issues today it's it's it's -- about how they're gonna figure that certain terms and. Four Milwaukee by the way another reference point for for everything it's sad about the MBA and nobody wants to work out there so he wants to play there. Milwaukee Milwaukee to -- downtown. I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sort of pick on them I do like little. -- Aren't Howard back I hope they do you figure it out because otherwise look to go on get real jobs and another -- -- do that again so how are back. Thank you so much for joining us enjoy the finals and hopefully buckets of -- Well good public servant under at that time I sent. All right so my first guest Jeff Goodman now with CBS sports dot com. -- get is gonna help breakdown some of these draft prospects for a speeches you know Jeff I don't think anybody sees as many of these college games as you do out there and you know I have to be honest when you I don't know marsh number it's from. You know a hundred its national average of -- -- -- -- first -- beginning sense of this draft him and of people are saying this is a bad draft too weak draft what's your overall -- the players who are available this draft. I imagine there are a lot of big job franchise players for one and that's what people you know usually -- draft on. I still don't picket the deepest draft either I really footage don't we just strap. Overall since I've been cover you know. -- forget forget his projected as a top twelve or fifteen picked. It's essential that you know I think you're an ordinary Euro and a two year or -- -- is probably lucky -- in the first round orally or -- So again. -- all it. -- until the game. Get a decent pick 25. They can may be helpful. Again I think the biggest thing if you look at the carrier ring has been number one pick these could be a good point guard Malik Derrick Williams debuted number two pick. I would -- to came out of nowhere in Arizona so again the star power to do premiere -- achieve that he compiled. You know you bunch of European. Again network we're projecting dormant for well. Right yeah I want to ask -- -- carrier -- and they're going -- -- -- it sold in your -- the carrier -- is the top prospect -- because. You can only played what like 1011 games at duke in and Derrick Williams. They're good to -- it looks like he's gonna be a player I don't know lot about -- simply because he just didn't have it though a large body of work. You know they're both are both really good players again I'm not sure they're they're capable of carrying a franchise. I wouldn't put they're going to double double Kevin Durant or somebody like that but. Kirkland also with these pretty broad metres cupid wasn't I recruit coming out of high school. -- really -- -- repeated a regional and community UNC image let out of this is a letter. Shot -- are going to be encouraging them. I'm seeing such an -- all -- -- Arizona all year. You know all the way almost a model for. They carrier ring. Didn't know the in the first eight -- to solidify itself become a more connect. You can't really judge him on what he'd be idiots -- what term too -- -- -- or so law or not he's so quick. Executed really put Gordon high school. -- really picked up the position well there are good for average veteran trial chamber Nolan Smith. Along strike should that mean extreme edition out of the key to a whole lot each chair Harrison -- And North Carolina a -- is a guy attitude score much better sure that people thought he was he keeps score each -- Not as explosive BCA dirt roads -- Russell Westbrook. But probably -- -- quick. I have a better he'll not might -- better you'll predicting. That this same -- -- eight point cork. Right right. Yeah no I mean it's an -- -- -- with these with these euros that are in there who you know let's be out there's very few people out there actually know what the mean trying to find film of this penis cancer kid did the Kentucky -- is -- you know it's like settling for bigfoot -- SaaS -- -- But down now there are it does seem to me there's a number of guys and that if you get the right guy. Where the Celtics are picking you may you may -- began getting a starter even but you could get a rotation player an interesting player for your rotation. Some of these guys down there you know we've heard some different names Charles Jenkins from Hofstra Travis Leslie from Georgia which may be a little high for him. More some of these guys down there that and that bit you like. Well I mean I think if you could jump out that a guy you know Chris tingle in some -- out of him he all's. You know he's so long about what -- opting yourself big middle are the guys can't. -- coming out which you really dark. Insurance ball well what he doesn't do. Initial log me -- but -- you can't you need to be -- a -- or get our guys are you know appreciate all. You know it. You know -- you get a -- like housing. A warrior -- just a really -- trees play our you know it doesn't project ally you know our Josh Selby. There's a wildcard right there probably -- -- -- and talented players in the country. How about here would spend about an inch doughboy prefer 8 or 9 Eastern Europe and head injuries. Never quite just trying to get into Kantor's. Essentially you know it's got to character issues. Or question mark but that's never stopped dating to. Now I'd never I'm glad you brought some -- gonna bring him up. What's -- what's your assessment because sometimes we get these guys are committed to commit to college with a lot of hype and a lot of -- now he got hurt so is not all his fault but. It. Is overrated coming in. I mean you've challenged or use OJ guided through assimilate himself -- college team I'd just take. From day one he -- about AMD it gives them -- that and -- when you gotta sit out 89 games. You feel like you've got to play catch up you don't miss -- -- team. Great leadership anyway it would -- rates cancers and then it was try to. You know the chemistry to pick Scott turned shots helped to help matters. But again. -- are -- the funniest part is we -- out -- -- -- -- warmest spot up guy. And it shooter when really its big strength and she's out -- -- to restrain its ability to are really score. And not again I don't know feature or hurt to whatever -- -- just eight player. And I don't see him get -- It changed or 25. You probably each got a role to execute like that extra surge in Cuba and gaining keep track record of all types when you. You know whether -- could talk ideology the world but Nate Robinson to the world then get everybody I mean it really. There are a lot of tried did you roll the dice on nick. You know what -- -- want to labor proudly brought him to you know got a game high character of last year -- Harry Doherty and probably -- -- to surprised to be our. Right. Yeah no I you know -- -- -- isn't -- -- -- I can't see him getting down to the Celtics just because of that talent that you talked about. Where this. You know if you're did you drafting this late I think you need to take some calculated risks to get -- against the Celtics need ten Albanian and Italian fusion especially for that. But a second you mean Danny talked about that right after the season their problem was they couldn't score points when they needed to score points. So if she got a couple of local guys actually more somber -- first let's talk about him a little bit. What's your take on on Marshall brooks and obviously is a huge score province was a lot around him -- he. Can he come to an NBA team and sort of blend in and fit and use those towns to be productive or is he a guy who needs is sort of a -- show. Yeah I. I don't know where he'll -- to being the supporting guy I don't know he does any one game great you know I think he'll be better or. You know -- team. Like prominent where he was counted on to do worker. He's got -- -- shot he's or reaching great anecdotes game. You don't politically everything -- -- probably needed him to do yourself. So I don't know -- -- march number 220 pop I'd like to execute up to keep these jobs and you know what you warmed agent talk. I can't another cute it was a recruited by elite by coming out I mean what I mean anybody was like. Yet they are accused -- huge state prop. And that's good that's good LSU got the -- the friars like that. Reggie Jackson like Camelot the Boston College kid. Seems like a Jack of all trades kind of a player I know he was very good BC. Is -- crazy does he remind you at all Delonte West is that terrible comparison. No it's not bad that's not bad I mean miracle you know sort -- try to leader -- you know our fourth brigade true. Quote got -- top -- I think regular people or can spend a lot. It is territory pop it's got exactly what -- what they need if your -- -- -- got a -- each scored a ball. You know really really athletic. Reach out to be honest and I and it got his fearless. -- -- And again he is -- daughter could help the Celtics I don't know where you get it's gonna help them immediately. It may not immediate help again next year it may just it got it -- -- per year plays a role. I just cannot cure get out to get better -- Celtics through you know some sort of picked up -- -- -- not arbitrage we get it to drop for each year. Right right clearly. -- the Zimmer -- need to talk about the -- beat down -- -- right now well I. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. And when I watched BYU play another player good league and -- and as an America on Basilan as a nun wasn't very good lead. But I. Jeff I just didn't see it and I mean here's a guy like you can definitely score we know that you can shoot. He used a lot of possessions. He was not you know it I don't see him translating in the NBA what he what would you feel about him. Are -- high volume shooter who -- again he should shoot the ball he's about cheeks. True. Not overly athletic but what does know what you -- -- distraught. I agree a 100% I don't she translated -- more than eight backup guard elite. Out maybe the worst go to where all. But I've -- A -- -- obviously -- -- sounds crazy but if you watch don't ever ever. Put these are ever arbitrage -- yeah. I mean it really -- They cannot agers are sound cool. Up but he cherished no pride in the deepest whatsoever. And -- or what did you how it got to work out and what a large -- so much better offensively. Everybody else -- -- but it controllable. He's gonna be so much better idea would be better damage I want operatives operate -- so we got -- -- a little bit about -- I'm not -- capable. -- dot -- W might be concerning -- can get a shot off than the pros can can it. I don't know I I seat you know I. I thought I saw Steve Alford in some ways I saw a better version of Jerry a much better version but a better version of Jerry MacNamara in some ways. Yeah yeah. Yet there's no. There's no perfect ideal comparison with a much a little bit of stuff buried by new obviously a lot stronger -- -- current I think their cards. A better. A better facilitator can be a better facilitator -- obviously scored -- I think he's got better court vision don't how to make you eat meat better -- don't -- Tyrus. But it -- to a career I mean it just in order to score the audio -- been was. In about what -- what -- put -- your top level out which format like guys in your machine at. Almost every team in India and not like she says he's -- struggle against. That type of. Right rise net net net that's what to learn about some of these big men down here at the bottom of the bottom of the first or some of these guys are are are content and treating. Tyler Smith we have heard about for for years now. Maturity issues -- all the rest but it seems like spent some time with Bob Hill may have may have helped him a little bit what's your what's your take on Tyler Smith. I'll -- I'm sorry that's the tigers' Jeremy Tyler yup and Tyler writes. I don't I get -- -- next confused out sometimes you know well out at the age -- These issues with we've done to right right. By -- -- -- left. High school you're surely you wait too like Israel horse in the mid and other stop overseas. And not bury -- talents of all like extremely count on -- him. A couple years -- play about ten games midsummer. And there's another guy she rolled the dice somebody will be -- -- big bailout to do that would big guys end up. You know -- times it doesn't work out to support -- democracies. You know but he -- these long we get regret. You know troops -- -- in the NBA. And I think. Can contract -- picture make it's we're gonna try and help support the people around him in -- organization. -- dollar delicate job Jordan right right there are -- similar -- Jordan. Which got a lot of college out group objects and -- -- dollar civil or protect some Sodom and chart a way she carried out it will be ugly to start up. -- for serial bus Jeff there but thanks a lot for joining us so that's our lives podcast some Paul Flannery. We'll deathly see you again real soon thanks a lot for listening by.

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