WEEI>On Demand>>Ep. 48: John Ziegler - Penn State Scandal

Ep. 48: John Ziegler - Penn State Scandal

Jan 12, 2017|

Kirk Minihane has a loud and very confrontational argument with media personality John Ziegler about the guilt or innocence of Jerry Sandusky. Kirk believes him to be guilty, John believes beyond a shadow of a doubt that Sandusky is innocent. Yes, it may be an old case, but you all remember it and this episode may change your mind about some of the things you previously thought with regards to Penn State, Jerry Sandusky, and Joe Paterno.

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Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

I would think Twitter. It's not usual. Fifty guests will be a couple times. In this week I got which was once or crazy. If you of the balls and John Ziegler on why you referred Ziegler but Seagram short few times over freedom. You know. Interesting guy he's. Crazy but he sort of Smart he's good talker. In exactly what this podcast and give this guy or sort of do is sandy. But instead of sitting there you actually go back and it was this is a fantastic. It worked out pretty well it is a fantastic podcast if you like a good argument yes and two people that are engaged in the argument right one person at the other people yelling at each here's the thing. Is I went at that point 100%. Inspectors sandusky told me guilty plea deal. I left the podcast. 99.9. 96%. He's told to move even that much is incredible. When you think what the evidence against him dust but John Ziegler radio guy. And is now sort of beaten this one man's best he's in charge. The the the that the passion he has sport in the in in the map times were in east crazy I think sandusky cute picture too we've been all that stuff. But in an odd weird way. Admires the right were on the what is she seemed to. In professional game. No he talks about how this really putted as screwed his career yes and it's kind of fascinating. You know why you. Why use yourself over something like this that. Doesn't matter to you would you say it's only podcast in America this week where one person references Matt Lauer having penis. I am nine New York because you feel safe saying that I think may be hatched a dork with Retief bring that may do that all right so it's John Ziegler. It is while it is definitely worth it. You do that you're gonna have to help me with this one John it was flying from. Boston to California. So on this it was 2005. Maybe. One Israeli picked up the magazine the airport read David Foster Wallace. You. Which literally took me you know you know the way he wrote it took me the entire six hour flight to read this story. You notice footnotes and stuff and I was the first profile and that is the match you're right that's the same job. I guess. Zig I apologize in your California. We saw there OK okay but you. What was you know and I know you've I breeding about you've been kind of critical Foster walls I was a fan of some of the stuff all the stuff obviously his life and the tragically how much time. Did you spend with you when he broke the story is that in the Atlantic I'm I'm probably should research. Well readers so scared but no yeah I definitely and on yeah it was a fascinating experience. I was really ignorant. And did not notify actual lives. And he wrote a letter which is still. Asking whether he could shadow 84. A couple months to do a feature story and not knowingly wise I actually thought well this should be interesting but not up early columns so. I I stupidly agreed and is. She out of me every day for. At least two months of vitamin blogger Matt. And many went away. And I'd I'd I'd back I remember hauling everything I whatever happened that there's going to be a a feature and he's a down note don't worry about it and he got to remember. You know that'd Google really wasn't. And I've already got a infancy anyway yeah. Right and so at that point all of you know today on would have done a Google David Foster Walton I would realized what an idiot. And you know what a big deal that the part of the reason why. I never did it. Is that he was so incredibly unimpressive in person. And I'm not talking about. I don't we just. A lot of people in my career a lot of very high profile people tiger. I'm a pretty good transfer. Who has it and who doesn't. And David Foster Wallace. I would have more likely thought was a homeless person. That may you know 88 preeminent lighter considered to be the genius of a generation right it just it never would have occurred to me. And this was soon after dealing with him. But I said on a daily basis for a couple months doing some extensive interview him and then when they article came out. My opinion didn't change because while I was kind of find out that what a big deal to us. He in the first paragraph of that when he. Prepaid Geneva twice three page cover story in Atlantic magazine. Yet in the first paragraph there are at least. Three clear factual errors in the first paragraph. And it and and so he he's not someone who really cares very much cutbacks. And and it's mind any note I I got criticized when he committed suicide not long after. This profile which I don't think was the cause of this side I hope. I was I mean that was a good separate years after. Mean I. Now all of them no real. Now it was not it was not that much long. I think I was up I was a 20102000 level will look at. Go ahead of 2008 right four years after. Parent well and in fact it it is just profiled me. Is the I think it's the last chapter and consider the lobster which I guess it is. Yes since that's his essay book right that's an area. Bit right so. It is not that long afterwards. And it and money when he did I I said. I think he killed himself because he was afraid. Being found out as well as a fraud. That he didn't realize he was not a genius. And the first thing you do when you and I genius in the garage hygienist is you you act bizarrely which is article on May was bizarre by any stretch. It was written in a very strange way and when you're David Foster Wallace in the strange you're considered to be genius. The blood and I got criticized. Quite a bed and understandably so over people who were fans David fox Walt didn't know. And spent the time I had with them. You know what why he's saying this about a guy who just died while they made a move about David Foster Wallace and in the trailer for the movie that David Foster Wallace character. Affect I'm not suggesting he's quoting me. But he beat it's almost Albanian government I forget the exact words assuming the effect of I've always been afraid of being thought of as a slot. Weyrich and you you probably didn't read it was a biography of him a couple of years ago. And that is that is you are right and Albert's dismissed the specific charge your story but that is something that he battled with. He's his entire adult life. Well I did not know that I came to that conclusion on my own. And I felt vindicated by the Baghdad in the trailer at the movie of his life. They they are Foster Wallace character says exactly that. I don't like you I only dudes super sidetrack us also this though. In his defense or whatever your perspective I don't think it's you might disagree our eggs every rather recently. It's a completely unflattering portrayal of you like I think it comes across he dislikes you went in when you read the story. Well I unlike Donald Trump. That's about the only way I evaluate. People I know I understood and I understand apple saying his. I'm an old it was a total hit job. Well my theory on that is that he intended it to be hit job. Take expected it to be head job. And and was surprised that he actually ended up liking me that's a decent yeah. That's what I think happened because it is. It is a partial or job and it's not entirely accurate and as I said in the first paragraph there are three or four. Very basic factual errors please. Here's here's the thing John it's what I do and which you've done is when you're in radio. And you are an opinion person like you are and I am. You do have people who flow within guys like David Foster Wallace who think that we are beneath what they do if that makes sense. But shirt on and use that. And I absolutely there's as an elitist view of talk radio which unfortunately in the air and the Arab Donald Trump I think it now been vindicated. You think big beating because stroke was elected that that that indicates that thought process. I think affected talk radio sold out the Donald Trump has indicated every negative. Stereotype of talk. So they talk radio was kind of a wide blanket isn't to say that. I. You well would play politics our show Toobin I'm. Yeah I would say that also but also goes for television goes for cable television if you're gonna say that I mean it's more than radio right. What went on saying you say your radio has I would say certainly a lot of television Talking Heads off fox for example is also done the same thing right. Oh absolutely not Fox News Channel has basically become the same thing it's now a court no question. So what are you doing so what are you doing now when this year would injure job you you are instilling syndicated radio host. Actually just candidate nationally syndicated radio talk show partially because of terms election I wrote a column three or four times weaker media I'd do. Pay him podcast on Sunday night's. And animation they take care my daughter and I am about to have a second. Child and in April and as you're well aware I. We'll get there I'll hold hold enough. 4049. Years old you haven't McCain at 49 and every walk me through that that's tool but it. Well it just it was a planned this way if you happen. And and you know it is definitely concerns me about. What would that can mean in the long run but in the short and you know I'm pretty helping young forty him. You know I expect seeing dead assuming that I remain healthy that this wasn't the worst way. For this to go because I I don't think I was ready as as a younger person temperature and I never thought I'd get married. Forget about having two kids so so that those here now it's weird out like workshop. So it's let's go let's get to we've we've been on with me in in Dino when he was with us and Gerri just mean Jerry now what. We went on an M basically when it comes down to is is here's your taken and will get into the the specifics but. You think Jerry sandusky who's obviously still prison right now. Is completely 100%. Innocent of the charges have been levied against him is that an accurate statement or. I don't think denied knowledge and it's not the most bizarre part of this ridiculous case which have. In investigating now for. Almost five years where that no one else has is that it's I didn't close it's not it's not even close. It's. And it's it's and it's what's most amazing about it is it. People who are convinced that I am not heights not. We can have you I would I mean I know you're Smart guy you can understand why Morgan into why. The default reaction when I say that and you say would you say if we if we just went off the air right now. What people would say Zeke was on this (%expletive) mine right I mean you can you you intellectually to understand that. Absolutely and guess what that's exactly that reaction. In this is really important I do most important SA and as Eleanor. That reaction while universal. Is exactly why this injustice was allowed to happen. To the Sosa the John Sauna. All across our every month a cluster percent. So the eight the eight young guy young man who testified they were molested by sandusky is boys all eight. Well I'd like to I mean I'd be happy it was all snowed the. I'm just aren't what we've done up I'm just a you know so my reaction is everybody involved and. Tell the truth and what they shed a trial is not true but also it's important point out. It's four of those AP you refer to. I'm not even sure they actually alleged crimes. So I mean there's been so many. My apologies creative about about this case that the most important thing people and understand about it is that we forgot to. We we went on an incredible. Domino effect decree was created by a nuclear explosion. Which is Joseph Paterno firing back in November 2011. And we forgot. We just completely. Just disregarded. Whether or not the first part of the domino effect was legitimate. I hears it during the first week of the trial. The courtroom truly belong to the same dusty young men sit there were seduced molested betrayed in just four days they told an unforgettable story but the man who called himself tickle monster. The great pretender this city blue raspberry is on their bellies spoon with them on a base a waterbed it's sew them up and Penn State's locker room showers one testified. This in dusty picked him up in the shower from behind saying I'm going to squeeze your guts. What is not true there. What's hard to know what's match drew although that's not not that right there is what created. The. Bob what's the why don't talk to what is. Now why is that the why is that not true that. Why is and again I don't know any I have no way of knowing that I wasn't too. 600% since you said you know for a fact hold on John if you know for a fact argued upon a time if you know that for a fact. Why is what they're saying you know it's true or it vetoed that for a fact how coconut paean. Because what you just read. Is the first off I'm not sure I have to re re we just spread to make a lesser anything better is overtly across from. Well it's a good job I judge time out time it. If big romance is blowing raspberries on their bellies split with them on his basement waterbed insulting them up in shower room oh lockers. Whether or not it's a crime he would you that you have agreed but he grown man doing out which children. Were underage boys is we just a questionable. Absolutely incredibly stupid and inappropriate. But I'm still don't know when it happened because it's. Explaining what I think it yeah at least. I hit here's what I hear what really happened in this case I. This case began. With one guy by the name of Aaron this year. One guy made a complaint that was. Incredibly vague and very benign. This was after decades. Decades of Jerry sandusky. Having a packed absolutely perfect record. Nearly perfect record. Hisha I would say that it just a quick guide David Frost Ross foot Norman that I would say that history and you degree. Is filled with people who we thought it clean records and and we find out things. I understand that they're not but I'd I'd I'd I'd. Trust me I again August. And and I presume it's important point out about it I have no connection depends state. But disdain for Penn State now. Great disdain toward. But I presumed at the beginning of the Jerry sandusky was guilty as hell that was my presumption OK and I went and I interviewed him in prison. For three and a half hours went on The Today Show afterwards and effectively declared him guilty. Aftermath or hour passed me three times what my body is guilty I want to be sure to time but I'd I realized that I was gonna. You know any effort to try to get to vindicate Joseph Paterno was going to be destroyed. If I was seen as a standout supporter at that point I didn't know. That man enough information. Whether or not sandusky was was really innocent as my gut instinct was telling me he might. Pretty so light it was nice and then next year plots. Trying to disprove my gut instinct which was to to try to fool okay. What happens is there that Jerry really is incredible because this is making no. (%expletive) cents and so little evidence I also don't want that is not in my self interest obviously anybody you already said. You realize I'm not an idiot. It is not myself interest to come out and say cherished and not even a disable it is super. Of course Matt we'll a second time I went on The Today Show where that Jerry's wife bodies and diversity of our lives. Declared my career dead and I agree with the I expect I did in fact I think he I think he was quote he made. Aden a nice way possible what I was fully aware of the that was going to be the react. About double edged it will start alleged victim number one you can walk me through eighteen years old I used a respirator. Yeah right he said sandusky cracked is backing testament 2005 later initiative oral sex. Tennessee to sandusky house more than 100 times. Yep and you know what. You know when he said that he said that at the trial three years after his first story. That's just let me just let me just lie on the state. Not well let me tell you there there's your story can decide whether I think he's line is I'm convinced they're vicious flying you know lost believes her vicious flying. Twelve different people I have on the record you are exceedingly close to him including close relatives girlfriends best buddies during that time to the allegations. People who sponsored his a rally in support of him and opulence of favored duke twelve different people on the record on their names against their own self interest. Not one person I'm incredibly well not a Lock Haven, Pennsylvania where Fisher is prompt. With a ABBA ABBA ABBA number nine number nine cents a dusty sent to perform oral sex and sodomized them in the days after all of the problem is the promise of job don't Obama ought to understand it went to the pro prop I do but I know god god god I jog jog I agree that I John I agree spent more time is number nine is another guy and and that does or does seem it does seem to me what it does he can eat it now does seem to have an AKK okay relied on around it does seem to me. It's in dusty is a habit of the and you're not talk to my dog job I understand your fatigue could be -- candidates say dusty has a habit of a pick up boys who have rather she's don't have fathers to fathers are our rounds affairs saying. That's your particular obfuscating the issue here if you acknowledge it and Fisher's line which I. I know it's like you are I'm not. I'm not acknowledging is why you are we disagree with if you want him why did you get. So it should because he said Sid Vicious lying and saying okay yeah the Persian lion couple weeks that's that's. Tell you why that's been dragged it. Okay the reason why that's so incredibly critical seats to what you're doing and most now agree that most people think this way. Our wallets worn out of state right now 32 which is (%expletive) Or or even have a logical they don't want had a beta trial okay if one line doesn't mean at a seminar. In this case it dies because parent Fischer was the entire case port two years it's. John John I just crush John it's jumped to the back and forth conversation you don't you agree though that. M listen we can forgets it I think sandusky guilty to will focus on yeah. Yeah let me tell you read in time do you think. I'm reading things when I'm saying you know what would you tell. That's what you finished in a second you agree. That occasionally on arbor very often cases like this where do you forget sandusky other cases. So what's hold not once somebody opens their mouth that such talking to occasionally Mike with Cosby's say. Other people will follow it doesn't mean it does because Fisher was only got for two years but I mean it's a dusty innocent official line. I understand and accept you won't let me tell you the rest. This. Here it is. So so there. I know for a short acknowledged and far more about this case that you're anybody else harbinger Eric Fisher was the entire case for two years they tried. Vociferously. They tried everything they could to find other accusers vacant why not banks during the course of that. That two year period. They asked several of those later in this or whether they happen not one not one person ever actual trial. Arbor in the first version of the story saying anything about Jerry sandusky sexually abusing them. Here's what really did happen here what really happened. A case was about to be blocked after Aaron Fisher couldn't even testify at a grand jury he tried twice. But failed miserably. Couldn't even answer questions. That third time he has to. Read that he Esther reed is testimony where it is therapist I believe was the source. On most of these stories that which were compass. He beat their three years later them at work at the time and again I have interviews with his best bodies during that time the allegations and they also say this is (%expletive) There's no possible way and it's not just damage every. The idea how I'd explain kind of explained I don't like number afforded me I'd explain number four. Cited repeated his oral fast I'd exploit number five I think it's my number and I. It all again Fisher would ridiculously good. Now look back and to just made up stories you know detailed stories about it's just last year what you mean to question how. Happy to answer what happened when number four big number afford the next key down and now if so I'm glad you asked about number four so. For two years we have been bullish this (%expletive) ever evolving story. Apparent Fisher's got a welfare queen mom who would immediately of looking for money in this story and a parent teacher wants money and guess who ends up getting paid millions of dollars and all of as. And a beige or his mom seek out historic opportunity here are the investigation is going nowhere. Then all of a sudden then going to be victim number floor. Victim number apple is saying duke investigators. Nothing ever happened sexually would Jerry sandusky. Is apparently. At the end of it would be if police officers by the way kind of weird but he has an attorney. No re confirmed to have an attorney are other than the fact eventually gets paid millions of dollars. And his attorney makes a lot of that changed this attorney tells police and it is all to keep. Played a trial tells the police can we stop the interview stage since the internal portal off but they didn't and on the recording. The police officer and lawyer. Conspire to a lot right to pick a number of war about what other accusers at this point there's no other accused other than Erik Fisher. Do you think you have you have you played this the other singer website this summer conceived. Transcript Abbott is on our web site -- public it is public record okay it is it is it was widely reported during the trial just that nobody in the mitigate a shed. Today it decided. An eternal god even fired at Jerry must be guilty so so there's less pay it any other case to trial would have been a master of gigantic bombshell speed have a lawyer conspiring with police to lie. You did tell Obama's pick them but there are other users that don't actually exist who are saying XY and Z. And guess what happens once they turned a record backlog. Victim number force suddenly tells a completely different story which fits with what would like they had just told him. About what other accusers were allegedly saying which they want and by the way. Victim number four's story at five years. Fires. Not least N dot ski poor I have gotten to know exceeding. A woman who want to know what and why many believe. On news about the ratings only got in the in the basement in the basement in the basement of her in the basement of her own home guide Dottie sandusky. I so she has to be lying because those victims or equations are. As they wish it. I believe that and how about how about art art Hubble Mattson that's. Why no I know you've got plenty of issues with. Do you believe that there about speed and then you are either known nothing about the case. Are you were a complete M missile because nobody believed nobody believes that sandusky who knows everything about this case let me tell about met sandusky story some maps say that it is short story is best to our prove it back they got ski at the age of 1818. Jerry and Dottie to adopt him which state do which is well laughter. It is now alleged abuse we've fast forward to when these allegations. First surfaced that. The biggest supporter publicly. For Jerry sandusky is Maxi and that's key key testified he only time he testified in the whole case. Is that a grand jury and it just applies in. But it would roar strand in Chile's defense in fact he wants to hold a press conference. After his testimony did a friend Jerry sandusky incident that. As of forty something year old adult this is apt to be allegations have been been in local newspaper he is as strong and Jerry defensively possibly could be. When Jerry gets arrested. OK would you like it's rested this is incredibly important match so embarrassed he goes to court. He goes to court against his ex wife. In order forty is young children. To be able to receive Jerry sandusky. Under house arrest after the whole. Oldest kid can come on Jerry sandusky. But they did that this guy who never. Not until you're twenty match investigated the story. He's bigger defender Jerry sandusky and told daily grind of the trial. Well he certainly didn't act stood Dottie sandusky. And court. And he's sees edition of Salem witch trial. That's what happens here do you looks around and he goes all the leads fox. This is really gonna have been on and elude my meal ticket. My name which has been called for broke my L all right since I was a teenager is now shipped. And I got to make a decision. I mean I mean they're jump on an Art Modell dishing up or I'm jumping ship and maybe I can make some point. Giving proof he said better articulated these thoughts. Yeah that's his own sample lengths and is he apply to sit things every single one of them. I against their own self interest had been publicly and privately point 9%. Positive. Not even a little bit ago I'll. Now I'm really every dirty or are all about Obama try to John John John John. I'm reading John John John John John relax for second and I'm breathing I'm breathing I'm breathing. I'm reading Jeff Perlman Jeff Perlman spoke to and guess what it is who spoke to just say dusty Justin dusty said the that's not true he says he knew you would never said that I never said that his brother accurate for you said some of these -- so that fits your agenda it's it's true now with a dozen people that quote is accurate Jeff Perlman spoke up and people should just know. I know just a moment. So just curled would be so just probe it ought to Jeff Perlman is making us. Yes just so I'll take that early is make you know at the a so so so it's whoever is the last did do it was flying yet Jeff Pearlman talked to the brother is lying so that it's their side they're lying when it's your side it's a 100% true. I am just so rightly note the case by Mike why is everything studies it does deceive you fat white she's white she's told tripled you know that. You know student Matt I didn't I didn't know she was in the house gifts were in that house in the basement Terry's and I didn't really got hold on hold public. What are you look at CD you can see there were kids in the basement with Jerry sandusky. And I and I didn't have a habit that that's not that's. The question I ask Grammy producer said dusty was Jerry sandusky. Was in that basement Matt Lauer was in that basement. Matt Lauer went down of that. I don't get down militaries and thus futures industry tempers diplomat hours moll. And only got with how it's going on that's. All but let's say all the same crap but several of 600 I'd have a say some guy who was raped by Jerry sandusky is a (%expletive) liar is classy John we could classes side of the planetary dust okay my point is what we did it where did importantly it's where possible our kids down there were Jerry's amassed. I I'm asking a question. Which carries his best ever low down there were kids. I'm sure it was but if you if you were in the basement you guys Matt Lauer 06 to realize. You would realize that it's utterly impossible. To what was alleged to happen because. That room in the basement is about. What else apps. In a poorly inflated small house from the kitchen where you can hear everything and actually have and CNN. Put on this what trying to manipulate tiger about ski during our interview the day after that today show interview. Where they have got beat bad ice and that he got that that robe and and attention. They were awarded her pocket and am. I think it's. It's absurd that the reason that's cute the church lady. That one car. But I have got the dollar exceedingly. Well there is absolutely positively. No but anyway. If she had any idea why. Because. He would just what she does now spurred the ball. I did you say get history is filled with not only and it was for people who don't wanna believe things right right. So why why why is it impossible. Because I have dealt with our fourth war. Years I went I'd interviewed her. Five times I've gone on The Today Show. Whip her I've done it. Ian and interview with her. If you think you ought to know that when you go through that experience with people. You understand what makes them take it what makes them work and what they're capable of what they're not and more importantly if she knew little. Mean and the woman who hangs up on me when I first take this decision. Got a job on the job that doesn't. That doesn't mean (%expletive) I don't know that that doesn't get an issue well it doesn't really anything. We just stupid argument you know. Wal-Mart because she's there's a church when it doesn't mean that you that you don't Wear other husbands and us. So I would have been easily able to figure this out almost four years of dealing with are under incredibly stressful circumstances. And listen to make she YY. Did she go and drive seven. Hours. Each week three and a half hours each way. And I. I jalopy with almost 200000 miles on it. What elements they probably were huge space for some bizarre reason even Miller Lite would be a lot easier if he would have stayed out of Pennsylvania. It's trial. To the other end of the state to visit generation. I was she's talking released pictures crazy when she gets praise him bottle Joseph pickled. People do this geez I agree I agree I agree she's saying it's okay she's so. She's insane missing your. Target. When we only when he's used sandusky has admitted. As we know to showering naked with young boys very yes what is your take on forget everything else what's your take on that on itself. I think it was incredibly stupid but it's being interpreted them as people in Boston. On understand that better than anybody else it's being interpreted. Through the prism. The Catholic Church abuse scandal which hadn't happened yet. That's the number one band people ought to understand the historical context ahead in 1998. And 2001. When Jerry sandusky who grew up in Iraq called we're nudity was. Was commonplace. When when he did dose with stupidly when he stupidly. And make it showers were boys in public places now undergone by the way which is. Really I do know he never did I know he never did his own home. Because I don't know relaxed this is. Which make up against. So he. If you do you think about it logically here's Syrians the problem that. While many it's grown people. Into it screws will be able mines. The right thing psychologically owl habitat and same every minute shall make what boys do we know about the Catholic Church can handle this is. News completely inappropriate what do you do what you would only do is figure out out that that those allegations warrant public until John. John I would've thought in 19973. Catholic I scandal I would oppose (%expletive) not so. New defensive coordinator next day which university. Was actually show how are engaged with young boy happened odd. Was knocked comically. Let me. I just put sports my whole life I've been around that I don't know anybody anybody who has done that anybody beat you in the utility. A 42. Yeah Jerry is suddenly you're 82 completely different generation. And I need. Jerry did not do this nearly as often as it has been apologized. The reality is that there were a few episodes but it got to Kurdish stopped when he was told to stop after 2001 there's no evidence that ever happened after that. And the Catholic Church scandal doesn't become prevalent until after all. I church which stated in the world it is not relevant at all. And listen I got my my my cat my dad does that age I have plenty of I know played he might like for an at age none of them did that with young boys who were there it's. We're shallow just. All the it is made another mistake aren't in it in another error not not his kids. That's probably years did Jerry thought of that these guys. And that's that's of all I'm sure he did I'm sure he did but that's for sure but that's that's dumb but that's a good job. That's a great defense each did you conceding it's incredibly stupid can't you night. He seems a lot of second the allegations. That put him in jail and got Joseph Paterno fired ever held after the Penn State. Was not showering with. I'm asking you about it you're saying auto people who rest raisins and could stomach all of these soak them up while peace boom with them all I don't know I don't know. So what he showered katyushas being stupid I mean John come on what what does your gut tell you. My gut tells me that these were stories that we're greatly exaggerated by people who got paid millions of dollars that's a logical explanation for all of that because there's. There should be OJ Simpson like evidenced by this white assistant this it is have been investigated now for any ears. I numerous agencies by numerous people. And yet when that a hundred million dollars on the table there's no saying. There is no evidence of any of the there's there's Turkey actual amount of evidence and there's not. What happened should that a public whatever it should be. Should be when he went what. What evidence of what evolution but that's. That it's actually thirteen year old happy and he's been raped by a guy who would have if she the F thirty years later. There's Jared Fogle. What is your focus is plenty of evidence in the dirt all look at those that make it any acknowledged and he acknowledges guilt. We are talking about or hold it hold on tour without so fogle was fully talk or text messages in in court and say gusty Q I think sixty dusty at that time was on active social media dissident and. All of our second some of these allegations occur well. Into the cell phone and text message Arab by the way they tried that they try to do surveillance phone calls on juries are about eight they've got nothing but here's the number one piece of evidence doesn't exist. But exist in every single one of these pieces. Where's the pornography. I'm sure at that one shot lead a pornography on emails. Although there are on his computer or in his home audition red and by the way the only pornography I don't know okay was found in the emails. Although prosecutors. And the impassioned. What about what about the letters that sandusky said number four. Jerry Byrd at generator and that they refer to love letters were about. Why laughter. People who have no other apps and Jerry's a wonderful letter writer to young boys and talks about talks and talks and he writes a letter to erect and number number four young boy talks he's made mistakes he has lump in his heart. Are you serious. About future I'm just I'm just about Al and so at a Malia Obama up seriously you can talk about you jokingly asked the question. That's it it's not a backseat to a that's the only guy that's the only evidence not just what happened as a solid I just thought I'd ask the question. If that's a piece of evidence not gonna give them to knock that I'm not convicted. But he's. Evidently he says no letters is that text you said the letters of sync public the love letters he wrote number. Jerry is very eloquent a lot sweater. They're opting. I'm a nice nice safe that device that. You said you said it is just a diplomat was at the Opel without substance it is no letters is that Texas said number four was that is to right. Those letters are not evidence of anything close to a criminal's sense that they are I don't polygamous society. Damage in his criminal offense he said there were no letters I keep an occasional letter. How about and again. By the deadline as an underdog coming doesn't make any sort of implication about disaster it's such as he's not stupid that's why he's not sure it and that's just how does it. That's why. Our. I and I. Jersey customers do not used to it turns out he had a doll and I got about Jerry sandusky on I'm the only one who's gotten him on both sides of the parents always that it is that the child right Johnson and child the that would yeah I'm telling you about you're an idiot is you Dickinson is debate isn't. A man child is over the years. I think Jerry sandusky and frankly. I believe Jerry sandusky to be a sexual. Which is part of why he got himself and his troubled that he never even thought of any of these things. As remotely sexual I think Jerry sandusky truly loves kids I think he devoted his life to kids and he got the trade. I think you can betrayed by almost everybody as a whole life except those actually really know the truth to this case which is a far larger number of people that people like you ever wanted to acknowledge. Could ever want everyone close to this case. Boot it would did not get paid police to Jerry sandusky is innocent as not even close flat. Well guess who else. There's I almost I can't quite I can only by one person. You know big name to be somebody like I don't think you may find it didn't show you who says it best he's innocent of the new. Well there's a guy write a book about it right benchmark Democrats used a very well known and established law clerk. I picked an inferior the case is different than mine like you know he he's somebody had no connection to whatsoever. There there there are all sorts of people who are afraid. To come out and say publicly because they ought to be attacked by people like you have no clue about the case. And they understand immediate grinder and how much did the media as invested paprika and statement you guys have invested app. Initially tried to say yes it is to have people like me I mean out of a job is because a bunch of people are double doesn't tweeting ME. Saying have you on I was afraid of not for some reason you retrieve the cup when you knew what wasn't so wanna have beyond. It talked about it I was glad to. My play is a mud some talking usually happy to talk about the justice in this is and I agree with you also this is not something new convict somebody a facility purposes. But would you agree that is a horrendous sound like AM on the line of thought he went on there. What Kostis Ashton if you sexually attracted to young boys in the didn't answer yes or no. Mean what does he think. All around this cancer and as a matter of fact when I heard it I was the first moment. That I thought holy (%expletive) Jerry sandusky might theoretically be innocent. Because if I had a file who has been getting away with district forty years. That answered down. And it does not respond in such a pathetic fashion otherwise they would have been. Let me just say no we said to Bob that's out virtually the same question I am not attracted young boys. Because that's not the way Jerry sandusky talks should be don't listen to my interview with the men present. On numerous occasions I have to restrict or questions like that and it and it's just walk eight. What is often often say drives her crazy. You can ask Jerry sandusky what type it is. Unless he has to three different lodges tell him exactly what time but it. He's gonna think about it first you've got to pondering and give viewers as I would suggest you that is horrendous as the Bob got the answer was it was far more consistent whether or not eat guy who would know or even slot. Of himself as remotely big about a while I was shocked by the question what do you do you are well myself. Hold on hold at that time that I can that I don't really know by the Thai news off the clock at that point John. Job by the time you saw the cost at the time. Yet prepare for question that. You don't know that he's YouTube under. Point you. At Utah attorney opinion about what app and if you haven't talked about I have to ask. You're talking to the only person on the planet who has talked a constant almost 5% of each analyst doctor Joseph lamb and dollars that they may. I'm the only time. So I'm the only one that can explain to you fought literally going on in an interview. Webb got to read what you got arrested last Q what was the story behind. You don't want to blow it by editor cognitively dogs signaled that it costs asked me perfectly legitimate question the good job. In in sandusky once done I mean it's easy is questionable. Or your if if memory serves she can you repeat. He repeated. Repeatedly questioned you repeat the questions that sexually attracted to them right. Right yeah and it pause for a while now any any human body language is an eye. That's like trying to find out shortly. I'll talk trades at a violent and I don't that I know how do you know that you talked every trade at a file I don't. Every trade at a common sense if it meant. Jason Thomas let's if you don't rape kids in the last protracted young boys in object young boys you say no that's basic common cents. Unless you're told like Jerry sandusky who never even thought about it. And you ponder the question. It what did you write all these wonderful letters you talk was a great letter writers ZZ he writes stupid letters. There's a there's different kind of empower. And he would Jerry sandusky like a lot of football coaches I'm assuming as a sports guy you've done I've spent a lot of time. Football teams I've coached football and I spoke I've covered football and college and and pro. Football coaches are basically. Acts burger people they have incredible. This defined intelligence in one area light and other areas alike they're complete dope. He's like it's like yeah that's he would like a white. Now the reason why he invested by the trial which he. Desperately wanted to do was because Matt and dot. Wept as I referred to earlier in the interview and decided he needed the cash out and they were afraid understandably so that they put Jerry sandusky on this and that back could be brought up on it back cross examiner in in a rebuttal case by the prosecution that want sure. Remember Mac sitting next about it said that. And contrary to media misperception. Boy thought that trial had gone very well. And declared a big hour for you at the time you were sort of made isn't a big deal as the Borg was fourteen not ten match our what does that matter. Well mannered and these are mechanical area just seemed. That makes a massive difference number one spot on a number of levels. Because first ball at the age of almost a month sort of your fourteenth birthday which is what Alan Meyers. The so called query victim was set on the day Joseph Paterno was fired but nothing ever happened governors and I'm aquarius flying. You mean to tell me the you're bit at the age of almost fourteen. You were understanding. Of sex is that and and your physical development in the same. As when you were ten are very closely. Are you hear it's just. Okay yeah so that's one reason why number generally goes to the fact that mcqueary is ability to witness the event. I will remember it was not particularly good. Because the difference between it and here older actually to be clear. Mcqueary said at ten to twelve year old and a defense that mcqueary has now amended his statement at I believe because he knows that Alan Meyers is the person and knows what Alomar his agent Andy has now amended to say that because he's someone as old as fourteen but the reality is that Mike what Mike McQueary. Witnessed was much more of what he heard. Don't want saw by his own testimony you only saw anything for two or three seconds through a steamy mirror. In eight and a shower locker Rome and it was not until ten years later. When he made any implication at all but it was sexual what he saw and by the way he got that they Ahmad deadly year. Of the event and flat wrong didn't it happen after 9/11 one actually happened before 9/11 cuts. I have a job which which I would say for fourteen year old I can understand that might happen you'd think it's impossible that that bag that can happen did the right by the course of all right McCrary who. But it mcqueary. That's more testimony Paterno does. Gary Schultz three to repent street administrators all of swore testament there all. We talk you don't think you understand the case that my number two was blessed. The home the second. Gary Schultz who was head of the spirit yes police have that there's never remotely said I think most of that and neither neither has sped. Tim Curley the athletic director at either grant Spaniard the president either by the way has. Mcqueary that. Or doctored to lay out the two people he spoke them not to the night puppy episode. They recently testified at Mike McQueary saw the trial. And they said that what Mike told them did not require them to report any bank and won including police and the doctor was mandated reporter for child sex abuse and he were he testified that three times the Asta mat I think Mike did you see this except that Mike said hopefully right. This is not complicated. Mike Quigley got manipulated you don't know why got a weighted. He got manipulated because when he got a look at state followed to a woman not his wife and you know I was gonna report that and then not getting censored Don van that have ESP yet and you know the proof I have that. A taped conversation with Don Vannatter heaviest yet which you can find I YouTube it's all very clear what happened here. Aaron Fisher wide. Mike McQueary got manipulated those with a two pillars of this case we were told those doors or steel they were not made this deal they were made of sand cap and everybody but the media which used this case has their own Santa Claus. Those pillars have disintegrated. And Jerry's saying that he is and it's. Damascus OK let me ask is your your your a bright passionate articulate guy he had a good career in radio and television and all that. This is not you know you major case we disagree that's fine too laid out a lot of time into it. You're not going to be right and whether writer not knocking the wind you know can be vindicated it's not gonna happen. You know that's not gonna change sandusky never getting out of prison he's never be found in this in the public guy why you doing this. Sure it semi yeah that's other I mean that you say you hurt your career I think you Odyssey believes and the Huskies innocent. What is the upside. You know I'll give you but you but you don't think it's at best he's ever gonna get a prison. Our Baghdad been I have been outspoken saying you'd like in person that is why do. Because I don't wanna live in a society where someone. Knows this to be true and doesn't speak out about it. I don't I can't live with myself and back. The only time the only time an assault case I had trouble sleeping and I've been on this case now almost five years. Thinking at first there was no way that Joseph Paterno was involved in this that he got railroaded and I and I can't believe that all this is (%expletive) The only time that almost five year period where I had trouble sleeping was that went on The Today Show the first time. And after three times being asked by Matt Lauer back effectively said that Matt and added that Jerry sandusky was guilty. And it and I I've I was concerned at that time that I had. Don something that did not was not consistent with my believes the market just when my gut instinct. Pat and add that I may be partially because Franco Harris NFL legend had urged me not to say anything that indicated that Jerry was innocent because it would harm the case. Did to defend Joseph Paterno. That I hadn't had done something that I was gonna regret and when I got letters and Jerry sandusky following that today show appearance I didn't want to open them. And that told me that my subconscious. Was was eating at me and that's when I am embarked on a yearlong investigation. To make sure that Mike got his things were right. And my gut instincts have been vindicated in every possible way and it doesn't matter that I don't that a loose. I won't let alone those. But if the truth on the matter this was a massive injustice not just the Jerry sandusky. But to a university and the Joseph Paterno and those three administrators were still. Never even faced trial five years later in the most of the charges against them have been dropped. This the greatest injustice to greatest case of media malpractice I've ever doubt in my entire life and I am proud to stand up for the truth because I know I'm right and if you care about the troops go to our web site I mean paternal dot com and that's all right therefore you. Who appeared to be the blame pie who gets a bigger slice of media somebody at Penn State who is in your mind. Good pick somebody view as they listened this person is most responsible for this happening. I think the person who most easily could've fixed this. Because it was this self interest to do so but he screwed up was Joseph Paterno signed Scott Paterno. I think Scott Paterno (%expletive) this up more than anybody else away. Because Scott Paterno who didn't know Jerry sandusky from Jerry Glanville. Decided that Jerry sandusky was guilty. Before there was any evidence and decided and he's a lawyer who is not good one I went and he's not a Smart guy who is born on third base and thought he would triple. And he's actually an idiot. He decided understandably that he needed to protect Joseph Paterno at all costs. And that and his effort to protect Joseph Paterno and isolate Joseph Paterno. And I believe I think he effectively no not intentionally manipulated Joseph Paterno into believing that Jerry was in fact guilty. Even though he had really had any contact with Jerry in ten years at that point I think to accept the dominoes in motion because. Part of why Jerry didn't get a fair trial a part of ironically why Joseph Paterno got fired was that would make sure that the bank patent. There was never any question about Jerry's guilt because of paternal family had effectively declared him. Eight we skipped the first step Obama has. All of us should never happen in order widget and. Why aren't sure why you'd check what you like Kevin is quite a swipe at this kind of grass right about why you writing a book about office. Well I have written several online books I've not made about a from best I've pledged never to make a dime from nest. I'm not an established author of Auburn a couple of blocks. I've been too outspoken rally for anybody to publish a book about as I've been I've told them to grass I don't think he's gonna be able to get his book published but apparently. My understanding is that there he now does have made a publisher for the book. And you know we'll see what happens I disagree with this theory on the case. And I don't think it's gonna make much difference but I have to. I'm telling you Scott Paterno Jay Paterno his brother Gerald Jerry Joe's. It's not actually didn't Jerry sandusky absolutely. Goes Jerry is innocent but they can't say it because it's against. That family. Position on this case. Deutsch your take what is your take on Joseph Paterno. You know it's a great question. I think that Joseph Paterno and it being railroaded here. Not at his own doing I think his intentions were the best but I think that his greatest sin of all this was not retiring when he should have. If Joseph Paterno had retired when he should have non of this happens. Not a bad. Not event. But it's also important to point out with a guard Joseph Paterno is Joseph Paterno doesn't testify in a way that he did it. Jerry sandusky is in Florida playing golf today. And that's not even a question. Just without Joseph Paterno the prosecution has no case and another probe that. The last person I spoke to though. The last broad say they spoke to go on the record before they arrested Jerry sandusky was Joseph Paterno. To make sure. The day Adam on the record again after his rare very ambiguous. And big. Grand jury testimony Joseph Paterno got that incredibly raw deal here. And and now because of the hundred million dollars at Kent State paid out by the way is point to point out I don't know if you noticed. I have a fake IQ sir isn't the Penn State settlement system. Who went to one of the key attorneys in this case. I have and tell. They were completely and play east. This story got manipulated in debt and and it looks good sound almost exactly like the 1971. Story which is complete (%expletive) been implicated Joseph Paterno. This whole thing is this a alma. And if you opened your eyes open your mind usual blaming their common sense and now. Believe the media bull crap it's obvious to anybody that's all there slamming Paterno dot com. I judge jumble what you don't we give Davis and our really appreciate that mullah will be keep in touch you I'm sure and whether we disagree or not I appreciate on your fight and die and I know it's not helping your career doing this so I do appreciate that natural talk decent. Thanks John. All right thanks again for listening to the enough about me podcast. Actually know what I'm really not think put all he should be thanking me get this ship every week he's great podcast. Totally free do if it was your good eye twos. Download Dakota stitcher do the same and reiterating leave review that tree can help me out. This podcast is going to be number one again I guarantee you can help me along with the process so for that I guess at the end. They have total thinking is why I think he's going back and forth here's the point (%expletive) you.

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