Dec 20, 2016|
WEEI.com's Mike Petraglia and Ben Kichen of the 'Dale and Holley Show' talk about Isaiah Thomas' flagrant foul against the Heat, and also discuss why it's time for the Celtics to address their biggest need.
Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.
Must celtics' five game. This whole thing Celtics. All things green. All things NBA league believes that he would be a very special player thus Celtics podcast starts now keeps coming. TI dot com's Mike petroleum. Welcome back to another edition of the Celtics podcast for a few by JPL on WEEI dot com my name is Mike to try a fat drags TR EG yes I am joined is always by young band that would be banned catcher and the outstanding executive producer of the bill college program afternoons on WEEI between two. And six Ben let's get right to it. They as news of the week it involved Isiah Thomas and justice Winslow on Sunday night with a about just about three minutes ago. Isiah Thomas threw right elbow is Winslow was closing out on defense out on the three point line and gave Winslow a very nasty gash. He was thrown out of the game a flagrant two foul called on Isiah Thomas. For the elbow when he had the ball up above his head. And Isiah Thomas couldn't believe it happened right in front of the celtics' bench Brad Stevens could not believe it. And the news on Tuesday. Just moments before we started taping this will hold them let's be honest doesn't go full disclosure and a bit but you're you're interrupting my eagle ray hello I'm sorry go ahead. The NBA has downgraded it from a a flagrant two to a flagrant one and that affects. Isiah Thomas going forward they did that for bookkeeping purposes so he doesn't get penalized going forward for this. But it certainly can't go back and change timing go back in time and and you know. Fortunately the Celtics were able to hold on and win that game they lost that game because he was out and it was a close ball game and Marcus Morris had to fill in for Isiah Thomas at the end. Boy with the Celtics have been yes yes they would have gone screwed I mean it's still kind of got spurred to begin what it. Now full disclosure yes. You and I recorded this podcast about 25 minutes ago we shirt and then as we go back to our respective offices. We both sit down and our computers and walked back over a year ago. The league just downgraded different two to one you did that with your cell phone you're on a conference call and it down at your cell phone in your earrings going. Us. I'm like oh great we're gonna re record that's yet because I was bitching to be MBA in the last in the version you'll never hear. It'll be gone from the ether very soon. You'll never hear it. But I bitch about how it was a flagrant two which should have been a flagrant one made this whole discussion about that. So right now in my contains mature a little bit and tied the league did the right thing here it shouldn't have been a flagrant two which should have been a flagrant one from the beginning. And we had this talk about intent and everything okay and that's how you kind of gauge whether to tour Warren and I think the raps beat. You broad discrete point. About how Bill Belichick talks about how you the rest cannot judge intent they have to go by letter of the law which is right in that instance. When it comes to the NBA in the flagrant fouls put the files are about intend to now. They are but if you have blood streaming down my cheek you. Point out any NBA official in the league it's like hockey and we brought this up in the version you'll never hear what you're responsible for your stick and hockey you're responsible for your elbows. In basketball mariners when you're swinging them around now was he. That there was clearly no malice on the part of Isiah Thomas to injure. Justice Winslow agreed agreed I generally even Winslow admitted this after the game and he wasn't trying to hurt me I got a bit got up. On them in a closeout situation on a three pointer in one I'm firing off something uncontested there of that happens. And I I take that into consideration and clearly the league did as well yeah that the intent was not there to injure the player. However when you see blood Roland on the cheek and there's a gash on the guy's face. You're going to err on the side of caution in this case protecting the safety of the player who was injured. And every time they go to the monitors and go back to see carcass or however how are you accusing get a confuse this talk comes Secaucus that seek Hong that's here and there knowing on this hunting again confusing detailing making it. Pronouncing correctly because I'm an idiot. But. Don't give it to look tracks and disapproving father's book that tool or when you called me and said hey by the way did you hear what the league just did. I didn't say like rats know you must speak. And those multitasking you know you were make sure but anyway I would I make sure this podcast was as an update it is possible. And that it is good as possible. And and for that I actually glad you're asked that in the end there that then and we're having a better. Well between us right now not then the first time when I was bombing and lying and had about. Four to five seconds of dead space it dead air after our initial podcast recording answered it can in there and without those. Five to seven seconds of really awkward silence right I know what I was saying and ninety. I appreciate that so unlike. Yeah I I think Billy did the right thing here in. This is sort of things I think the MBA does get right. Fairly often when they have you know retroactively go back in the league and now they got it wrong the NBA does is better than anybody else. OK I think the MBA will not tell you that there are officials got it wrong I think what the NBA will tell you is that after. Further consideration and evidence and speaking to the players involved afterwards yeah we modified. The ruling on the court. We want and they would probably tell you this if I don't have not seen. You know I do follow NB APR on Twitter but I have not seen. Them indicate that they have talked to the official reason with regard I'm sure they did but. I would expect the NBA to declare or issues some type of statement saying there's been a clarification. We understand that there was no intent involved. But our officials did the right thing at the time. Because they have to judge based on the evidence before them which was that video I say is elbow hitting and striking justice Winslow. In the cheek causing blood to run down will we still stand behind or has thought I would expect them to do your. Probably absolutely right about that and I don't really care about how they spin it PR wise doesn't matter to me as long as you get the call right. And the MBA did the right thing about the car right and went back and change going forward though. You would not like to see them to repeat that back knowing your point is. I don't want the officials kicking out the best player on the court and affecting the outcome of game that the Celtics any player on the court right but especially a player. Of his magnitude yet. In a situation where the Celtics are now fifteen and twelve they got the win they've won two straight. And they're fighting for of their lives and in the Eastern Conference Bret Stephens said this before the game on Friday night. He said look. We told at the beginning of the season in in training camp rumors repeat arm and repeated now we're just as close to tenth place as we are the third. And that is probably a theme that's going to continue throughout the season and that's why this game in Miami was so important and why losing like Isiah Thomas. Could've really been a much more controversial. Happening. Had. The Celtics won the game absolutely absolutely. There's so many other things we need to talk about. So many other things that and you talk to me about this before. So and I wanted to kind of Mo over these things review right now talking about it Celtics need. A real. Palsy inside players in our can argue with look I've been in the for a long time. So the question is I've they don't go get some like let's face it. No Oklahoma City Thunder are giving up Steven notably you're a student type a tougher protector though do they need to go out at the I don't think the Miami Heat really is going in or do they need to make a play across on white side I would love them to do. What its members work on Sunday. I have them opting case here you know fumbling through. I'm going three point seventeen rebounds yes it and only two offensive rebounds while he got to the line nine times only mean 53 throws by. They need that's what they meaning the physical guy who can. Around on the inside. Amir Johnson and by as the physical force. Underneath the you know and here is your back up for isn't. He had or rebounds and acting so. If you if you put. The top two players in that brought record the tall. The two players I would consider their classic while post players it's I don't consider Jake crowd hurled a true low post modern you're absolutely right. So you guys or rebounds from Amir Johnson and seven from Al Horford. You've got seventeen. From Hassan Whiteside so that. Together. Amir Johnson and Al Horford had six fewer rebounds than Hasan whites. That's path that's really. And against the crappy Miami team that is really again going nowhere and made up. Cut into with there what a 25 point lead to 22 point lead down to four in the closing moments and fortunately Al Horford made a couple of jump shots. And that was great and Marcus spark came up big late nagging at the absolutely definitely given credit for that. But against good teams the Celtics I just don't see it and they don't have a prayer a really advancing. If they don't fix that up. Oh they need to fix it very quickly I don't know if you can get Whiteside I think they kind of wanna build around Whiteside down their however he is 27 years old already. So do you wanna completely do rebuild I look at that I don't like that team and all they don't like rot the Drudge it's they don't want him around anymore. They'd like to get rid of because of all the money he makes. Whiteside makes a boatload of money which I'm OK with however I don't think the money is no Hotmail I don't really either Danny doesn't care. But but the third name either it's probably far more attainable and hopes Hasan Whiteside. However he is in the division. And he is. Clearly without a position Franco Angela came out of the 76ers Zia and her no you're not going benching him we're just trying to figure out what is right Liz in Ireland so well right. I could you could get him receive only for a lot less than you again for whites. I have a lot more questions about Maryland's Noel and I would costs whites won't get out and I don't I don't trust Maryland's Noel. In my capacity help. Number one but I. And number two I don't think he has the MBA ramps and he's been on the shooting team new it was Shady Records. And I think that's problem and I think the attitude might be an issue certainly he could have. A rebirth in Boston and certainly his core he could find a whole new level of motivation with his career. In the right atmosphere with Brad Stevens. And certainly in on the team that has a lot. Fear that has more much more ambition for going deeper in the playoffs than the 76ers who have no ambition of going anywhere. I'm not as worried about his arm Maryland's all attitude issues because if you get playing time a lot of times that can cure that. You know to have done that her husband SharePoint than I get that but I still. I I see him as. Really a one dimensional player. Yeah but they kind of need that dimension don't think I don't think they need shot blocking and rim protectionist marches they do the physical force in the pounding. And the rebounding. That I think somebody like a bigger body we give you'll there is no well you're right about the rebound the rebounding is now is doing well is it is a big without the size I'm not I'm not in love with those kind of players. I think he's 21 dimensional that's why I am not. I I just don't OK what did help let me let me person sends may be but I think. He'd be a little bit tougher version of Kelly alana who can't shoot nearly as well. A guy limit their resumes etc. are not including embassies and for the previous two seasons foreigner and so I averaged eight point one rebounds per game. In under thirty minutes again. OK you know if it would take so we knew we talked about the Celtics rebounding stats from well some good army ground for the Philadelphia seventh. Well last year they had Julie local port also remembers an agreement well. I mean. You you're saying well a great he's over he's the all he was the only rebounder. On a crappy team. I would expect him to put up those limits stop making me look it but I am and that's my argument to that a guy he definitely let the lead and led the team in rebounding. And with Okafor behind him at seven. Greg I would predict if your era that's pretty if you ask me of those two players who I'd rather have it's no question it's Okafor. Without a doubt but he's not available received what I think is yet I do and anybody on that on that team is available I think can be developed. Yes. I think anybody given. How tumultuous. That. Organization is they're still find their way through until instruments comes back. From splitting jury I think anybody ideal. I mean to load speeds available when you go and yes I would. He is the player that I think I would want more than anybody else any other big element roster you. Oh above their bigs yes I just don't see him being as available price being looked far more expensive than their own soil would be I look in Ireland soils are going to have to give up much for. Okay let's change gears a little bit here are there all right. There's a team the Celtics are playing on Tuesday night and this grisly well. Lawful and there is one place there we each have our favorite player on that team. And mine would be. A big in Zach grandpa. Yeah. I love love. Love Zach Randolph and he's got off and he's not hall. But he is present. He's 696. And right but he's nasty yet and he is what that that is a guy I would be very excited to see the Celtics. Yet you on the other hand would love the city. If they could ever primal way I know from the grizzlies past Arkansas right without a doubt I'd I'd love Marcus all I would. Marc Gasol doesn't get enough rebounds from me that's part of my problem with him right should especially guy who's 71. And a big body at that we should get a lot more rebounds and he does but Zach Randolph. Who leads that team in rebounds per game and it just over eight just more than barely more than Maryland's all of the last two years they point to. But Zach Randolph his ability to score even at 35 years old in the low post still impresses me. He's got the old man game that I do while up to watch I just think. That is the patina like the Celtics are probably now women's Eric competitive team they're eighteen and eleven and they're just waiting for chairman Parsons to get healthy come back in wild column is back now they're waiting for him to get healthy too by the way Mike Cox. I've always loved that that grizzlies roster not a lot of depth. Not when their healthy and homilies. What are they aren't nasty nasty team their problem historically Melissa historically the last five years has been. They're starting lineup great their bench terrible awful. And that you know when you when you have those kind of players. Yeah obviously built around the stars that they just haven't been able to really build you know what even if they had a Celtics start bench. And they I think they would be a true threat by. I think that's where the Celtics fan and I know there's been a tonic talked about it last couple weeks we'll circle back to Akron for yeah we can't I think that'd be perfect addition. Why because Horford doesn't wanna be a power forward. I believe he's a par four he wants to be a senator he's always wanted to be the center of the team right. Now if you bring in Randolph. That's perfect because the other guys we've been talking Merrill centers. And really would need to put the center position. And that means you have to move Horford to four. So you bring in a guy like Randall wars Akron himself or baby Randolph and Julius Randall via. That solves a couple of issues for the team and doesn't allow Horford to kind of become described Buick with the council's with a five. Well and that it would also point to why he would not bring in the south. In his book he would wanna be sent right term. I mean under that theory he absolut you're under percent right he would wannabes Terry chipped it as a Yao is the meaning of the Hartford he's a lot bigger and he's a lot better off while I wouldn't say. Much better offensively and corporate corporate pretty damn good offense he's well yes and in the grand scheme of things he's not that. He's not overwhelmingly better because Horford is a better shooter from brain you know bogey has worked on that game and gotten better. But no one is as good around the rim offensively as the markets cousins as in the Amir. OK to boil it all down then there's been so much talk the last two to three weeks about the Celtics needed shooter they need another score like at Klay Thompson. He would be you know the top of the the latter thought the top rung on the ladder in terms of priorities of who you would love to bring in as the score I don't think that's there and top priority. I've seen this team. Enough in person to know that defensively they struggle in late in games you know against a team like Miami on Sunday night. They'd better get tougher underneath and better develop that attitude if they have any intention of a challenging Toronto or Cleveland. There are times where it's got to start Terry Anderson. Here 100% right I I don't know what else to do with the steam you know we talked about the need to shooter. But that second. They need to put it in a tough day who can grab rebounds that that should be the most important focus of the Celtics before the trade deadline. Grab a rebounder. I would agree and we have this whose schedule. Yet scheduled for me. I do not but I can and two seconds yeah I've who looks vamp here because I wanna talk about the holiday schedule coming up the Celtics have. Two more broad road games and a three game road trip yep he got in front of you. As they do they it did Tuesday. There in Memphis than voters say they're in Indian yeah she scores Indianapolis. I'm sorry Friday they're back home hosting the Oklahoma City Thunder which I. You know me I love me some Russell Westbrook yet so wanna see that game and then on Christmas I finally. Celtics next. Chris de I'm not a big fan Christmas games find out. I just think that Christmas should be reserved for friends and family and relaxing and not. You know. Wall to wall basketball but look I certainly a great thing going and have for several years I like basketball more than I like my friends and more than likely famous arm okay. I loved Ian. I yeah I really do you like you're him anymore. But I love my family more I'd love it even more in the NBA if the Philadelphia 76ers were viable relevant franchise. Like Europe with them and you know I grow put the you know the hander Tonys and the Maurice Cheeks and I literally. And mark I've Romania and even Franklin Edwards Jones Franklin Edwards was Bobby here frank and resistance. Bought my market advisors what. Doctor Jim was obviously you know he was not injured Tony was my god oh you love or that's 12 in bicycle is and who loves him but to blow. Knowing that if that is not true why aren't they Tony who loved doing a bunch of it's when Penn Simmons broke his foot and yes. That was the curse apparel cat because. It was Harold Katz who asked over Andrew Toney with a broken foot if you remember the stress fracture. I you'll want to get that man. I've never heard that serious tiger get the phone ban certain though it. This is a first for the Celtics podcast go to Q by javy I'll Laura isn't another studio right now. No this is awesome. They wanna join you pottercast. Aren't well have eleven call you. What is the color think of injured Tony there was someone who works here. Those summer who works over in traffic calming to talk to someone else and we could get his call that line who first of all how. The lines anymore you tax but anyway. I know you got to get going to production meetings though it that's where this podcast ranks on your list of priorities for about that but I want to wish you happy holidays. I hope you got some of the food visits Bernie in my breath right now and I put hot sauce on bags that are awry we love. Tabasco sauce on that you production and everything I do what action on every all right. Just so people know in time for the holidays you can follow me on Twitter that'll be my Christmas gift to you. And younger MW yeah. And you can follow me act drags TR AG ass that would be my trolley on Twitter yeah act drags TR AGS. Now although it. For another edition of the Celtics podcast brought to you by GA beyond wishing everybody out their Merry Christmas happy holidays. Talk to get a happy Chanukah and there and a happy Chanukah you happy Chanukah.